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Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Just saw it. I feel like they didn't really do a great job of conveying Shirou's inner breakdown from using the power, it just seemed like a convenient power-up. Like, in the novel it's pretty clear that he's basically lost all sense of time and place, and keeps forgetting everyone's names and why he is doing what he's doing, but is trying to put on a strong face so no one notices. Except in the anime you only see that strong face so it pretty much looks like he's completely fine other than a few hiccups every so often. Doesn't help that the anime regularly uses jump cuts anyway, so they aren't especially disorienting like they were in the VN.

Also I just generally felt like everything had less emotional weight than it did when I read the VN way back when, but maybe that's just a nostalgia thing.

Also also it remains slightly funny to me that the entire plot could've been solved way earlier if they'd remembered that they could just project Rule Breaker at any time, and no I will not listen to technobabble explanations for why that wasn't possible until the last possible moment.

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Aurora
Jan 7, 2008



the crest worm was still inside her and had replaced her magic circuits

Kyte
Nov 19, 2013

Never quacked for this


Nyaa posted:

How does FGO system manifest heroic spirit? Some alternate Third Magic?

The Einzbern factory, whose objective was to rediscover the Third Magic, did achieve a minor success with Justeaze, but she couldn't actualize the Third Magic on the scale required to save the world. Instead, they lashed her into the Greater Grail and used her power to materialize the summoned heroic souls.
This is what makes the Fuyuki HGW special, because normally it takes the authority of the world itself to materialize them. Regular HS summoning is closer to a seance or Shaman King-style possession.

HSs themselves are provided by piggybacking off the (human) world's self-defense system.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

No way...


College Slice

The FGO system is also its own (special) system.

Kyte
Nov 19, 2013

Never quacked for this


Raenir Salazar posted:

The FGO system is also its own (special) system.

It's still based in the Fuyuki system, anyways.

Aurora
Jan 7, 2008



the fgo system is only special in that it uses a part of the round table as the conduit to summon

Kyte
Nov 19, 2013

Never quacked for this


There's other differences, but they're all superficial. The core of it is still the same as in FSN. Most of the weirdness comes from the fact history is broken.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

nope just me lain


Nyaa posted:

How does FGO system manifest heroic spirit? Some alternate Third Magic?

davinci takes all of your money

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Kyte posted:

Regular HS summoning is closer to a seance or Shaman King-style possession.

Is this why demiservants are so common now?

Kyte
Nov 19, 2013

Never quacked for this


AlternateNu posted:

Is this why demiservants are so common now?

Pseudos, but yes. The basic idea of pseudos was first mentioned in passing by Rin in FSN, it only really became a thing in FGO. Although both Apo and Case Files leverage the idea as well.

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!



Clarste posted:

Just saw it. I feel like they didn't really do a great job of conveying Shirou's inner breakdown from using the power, it just seemed like a convenient power-up. Like, in the novel it's pretty clear that he's basically lost all sense of time and place, and keeps forgetting everyone's names and why he is doing what he's doing, but is trying to put on a strong face so no one notices. Except in the anime you only see that strong face so it pretty much looks like he's completely fine other than a few hiccups every so often. Doesn't help that the anime regularly uses jump cuts anyway, so they aren't especially disorienting like they were in the VN.

I disagree. I thought they portrayed it very well and did it entirely through subtle facial animations and dialogue. You can see after he uses Nine Lives Blade Works the way he just vacantly stares at Illya until his brain goes "well I probably know this person so I better comfort her" or how he exclusively refers to Rider as "hey, you" after using Rho Aias

Space Flower
Sep 10, 2014



yeah i think a lot of the movie was built on split-second cues to things you understand more clearly as a vn reader. which could be seen as a flaw,, i loved it tho

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

No way...


College Slice

I think I noticed some of that, definitely worth a rewatch to pay more attention to it all.

Maybe they'll re-animate the Fate route? Tsukihime? HA?

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

So long, Ex-Ma Fergie!


I feel like the middle part of Heaven's feel was really great but the conclusion lacked the impact that UBW had for me.

The final fight is a fistfight with Kirei and I'm all for shirtless men beating the poo poo out of each other; but I felt like the world's most insane pro lifer probably wasn't really the climactic villain I wanted to see go down.

And yeah, I got no sense that Shirou was having a mental breakdown at all really. At least anything beyond the pain of becoming swords.

Also you spend like 8 hours building Sakura as this crazy demigod and she just gets brutally owned with basically no effort by Rin.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Well, speaking as someone who read the VN I liked the conclusion there quite a lot, my favorite route, but this version just had less impact imo.

That said I did feel like Kotomine made a better "final boss" for Shirou because of their clashing ideals and bizarre similarities, but that works better when the conflict is mostly internal rather than an actual animated fistfight.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



If that's you felt watching the movie the movie didn't do it justice. Heavens feel isn't my favorite route but the kirei fight is by and by far the coolest fight in the series.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



The entire franchise has yet to produce a moment as good as two effectively dead dudes just beating each other like sacks of meat.

Nyaa
Jan 7, 2010
Like, Nyaa.



It does build off well from the final fight of Zero.

Aurora
Jan 7, 2008



Nyaa posted:

It does build off well from the final fight of Zero.

Marluxia
May 8, 2008


Natural 20 posted:

Also you spend like 8 hours building Sakura as this crazy demigod and she just gets brutally owned with basically no effort by Rin.

I mean yeah? That's the entire arc of their siblings relationship. Rin shows up Sakura in everything they do from the very beginning. It's part of why Sakura is so bitter toward her.

Rin had to cheat to achieve that anyway, she just had Shirou copy the jewel sword.

OnimaruXLR
Sep 15, 2007
Lurklurklurklurklurk

Do Kirei and Shirou have any more interaction with the Fate route? Based purely on ufotable stuff, it feels a little underwhelming. I guess it has more impact if you consider Zero, and how Kirei is technically responsible for Gil's shenanigans in UBW, but when you stretch all that stuff out over the course of ten years worth of anime it can be kinda easy for that particular thread to be lost. For me, in the pantheon of "two half dead assholes just thumping on each other until one or both dies" moments, the movie version doesn't rate particularly high

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



Yeah. Fate is the route where he gets focus as the primary villain - UBW is more about Gilgamesh and HF has Zouken's crew.

Lt. Lizard
Apr 28, 2013


Uh, Kirei might have been a primary antagonist in the Fate route, but as far as focus goes, it was basically "He is a villain because he is evil and a jerk, he is a jerk because he is evil and a villain and he is evil because he is a jerk and a villain, now that that's clear, go and kick his rear end". It took HF for him to finally receive the focus to explain why he is such evil jerk and why he will always inevitably become the villain Shiro has to defeat that formed the core of how his character is perceived. I didn't watch Spring Song yet, but judging from the last two movies and the reaction of non-VN readers who watched the movie, I guess that focus got completely cut.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

No way...


College Slice

Eh I think the film definitely gave Kotomine plenty of focus.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




He had some focus but the only reason I really cared about him as an antagonist was because I'd seen Zero.

Aurora
Jan 7, 2008



Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




I know Zero is flawed but it gave me more context for that character.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

His role in Fate is funny because after Heaven's Feel it feels almost more likely that he just threw the fight rather than actually lose to Shirou in that fashion.

Aurora
Jan 7, 2008



zero doesn't tell you anything the vn or even hf3 don't

YggdrasilTM
Nov 7, 2011



Irony Be My Shield posted:

Yeah. Fate is the route where he gets focus as the primary villain - UBW is more about Gilgamesh and HF has Zouken's crew.

Nah. Fate Kotomine has more focus than UBW Kotomine, but way less than HF Kotomine. If you translate the Fate router in movies like HF Kotomine would start to act halfway the third movie.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



The easiest way to think of the Routes is in terms of Kanye albums

First Route is obviously Heartless, You can see where it's going, it ain't bad, but it feels underdeveloped

UBW is My beautiful Dark twisted fantasy, the obvious Magnum Opus, Everything is built on to amazing results, you're going to be blown away

Heaven's Feel is Watch the Throne It's not bad, but after the last route you're expecting more, there's real doldrums, but goddamn when it hits it hits

I think that's the best way to describe Fate

DamnGlitch
Sep 2, 2004



Aurora
Jan 7, 2008



Gaius Marius posted:

The easiest way to think of the Routes is in terms of Kanye albums

No

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011


Gaius Marius posted:

The easiest way to think of the Routes is in terms of Kanye albums

First Route is obviously Heartless, You can see where it's going, it ain't bad, but it feels underdeveloped

UBW is My beautiful Dark twisted fantasy, the obvious Magnum Opus, Everything is built on to amazing results, you're going to be blown away

Heaven's Feel is Watch the Throne It's not bad, but after the last route you're expecting more, there's real doldrums, but goddamn when it hits it hits

I think that's the best way to describe Fate

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



When you really dig in it makes sense

Like Tsukuhime is his Gradutation, still a sophomore effort but extremely underrated and forgotten today

FGO is his Pablo unfocused, Misjudged, and Clout chasing. I'd call this NasuKanye's dark period.

Hopefully his Tsukuhime remake will be as good as Jesus is King or KIDS SEE GHOST

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011


Gaius Marius posted:

Hopefully his Tsukuhime remake will be as good as Jesus is King

Absolutely not

Aurora
Jan 7, 2008



Gaius Marius posted:

When you really dig in it makes sense

No

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



Yeah I had the same reaction after seeing Aruceid's redesign, I was hoping we would skip past Ye

Aurora
Jan 7, 2008



Gaius Marius posted:

Yeah I had the same reaction after seeing Aruceid's redesign, I was hoping we would skip past Ye

No

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Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




Gaius Marius posted:

The easiest way to think of the Routes is in terms of Kanye albums

First Route is obviously Heartless, You can see where it's going, it ain't bad, but it feels underdeveloped

UBW is My beautiful Dark twisted fantasy, the obvious Magnum Opus, Everything is built on to amazing results, you're going to be blown away

Heaven's Feel is Watch the Throne It's not bad, but after the last route you're expecting more, there's real doldrums, but goddamn when it hits it hits

I think that's the best way to describe Fate

I donít know anything about Kanye but this is hilarious. Good post.

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