|
Rody One Half posted:The husband is Mordred, who keeps you safe in his big strong arms IIRC, referring to Mordred as male is exactly as likely to get you eviscerated as referring to Mordred as female.
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2021 13:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 08:01 |
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:IIRC, referring to Mordred as male is exactly as likely to get you eviscerated as referring to Mordred as female. Interacting with Mordred at ALL will get you eviscerated. Not interacting with Mordred will get you eviscerated. The only way to survive Mordred is to be someone they like.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2021 15:17
|
|
|
serefin99 posted:The only way to survive Mordred is to be 
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2021 15:32
|
|
|
Actually yes Mord is enby I forgot
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2021 16:04
|
|
|
Mordred identifies as knight.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2021 16:09
|
|
|
mordred is my butch lesbian gf
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2021 18:18
|
|
|
Doesn't Mashu have pretty good hands in her kimono Enma-tei outfit?
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2021 18:29
|
|
|
Argas posted:Mordred identifies as knight. Like parent, like child. Artoria is a king and Mordred is a very angry knight who was never allowed to be a prince.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2021 22:19
|
|
|
The contrast between how hard they tend to go on weirdly specific loredumps to explain how every individual part of vanilla-Artorias background is actually consistent with her being a cis het woman and it's just Knight Rules we swear, honest next to Mordred just taking one look at that whole mess and saying "gently caress gender" is still the funniest round table thing to me
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2021 04:07
|
|
|
Mordred is just a child hosed in the head by real bad upbringing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2021 04:08
|
|
|
The Divine Orator posted:The contrast between how hard they tend to go on weirdly specific loredumps to explain how every individual part of vanilla-Artorias background is actually consistent with her being a cis het woman and it's just Knight Rules we swear, honest next to Mordred just taking one look at that whole mess and saying "gently caress gender" is still the funniest round table thing to me Arturia is bi, actually. Unfortunately for her, Guinevere happened to be basically the only exclusively straight woman in the Nasuverse...
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2021 19:31
|
|
|
Silver2195 posted:Arturia is bi, actually. Unfortunately for her, Guinevere happened to be basically the only exclusively straight woman in the Nasuverse... Wasn't it sorta the reverse though? Wasn't Guin more than okay with it but it was Artoria who felt that Guin deserved more?
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2021 19:40
|
|
|
i dont think saber was even aware homosexuality was a thing until she met rin
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2021 19:48
|
|
|
Saber's fatal flaw is her utter failure at comprehending direct interpersonal relationships. Literally talking to anybody would have kept Camelot from imploding but she thought she had to bottle up everything to be the perfect king.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2021 20:41
|
|
|
You might not like it but that's what peak perfection requires.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2021 00:52
|
|
|
Actually it requires going spear over sword, in her case
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2021 02:07
|
|
|
Athoria's problem was that her knights where 95% selfish idiotic poo poo-gibbons who were incapable of making a decision that didn't make things worse for her, themselves and everyone else. That her kingdom got as far as it did is a testemant to her more than anything.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 10:32
|
|
|
TheKirbs posted:Athoria's problem was that her knights where 95% selfish idiotic poo poo-gibbons who were incapable of making a decision that didn't make things worse for her, themselves and everyone else. That her kingdom got as far as it did is a testemant to her more than anything. Given that her core problem was 'has no people skills and doesn't know how to delegate', I'd say that her subordinates being utterly disastrous human beings is simply an extension of that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 13:02
|
|
|
I feel like criticising Saber's handling of her court and wondering whether a different, better person could've succeeded where she failed is falling into the same thought pattern Saber was in at the end of FZ / start of FSN.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 13:20
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:Given that her core problem was 'has no people skills and doesn't know how to delegate', I'd say that her subordinates being utterly disastrous human beings is simply an extension of that. Again every non Bedivere knight is either selfishly stupid, stupidly selfish or an outright traitor undermining Arthoria on behalf of Morgan. That they amounted to anything is a testament to her people skills (gettiing some actual good out of them despite some litterally chaffing under such high moral standards like 'don't kidnap my uncle's wife because I want to gently caress her') and delegation (putting the idiots in a posistion where the few things they could do would actually benefit people).
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 13:30
|
|
|
Re: traitors working for Morgan, Arturia actually had none of those! Agravain and Mord were certainly SENT by her, but both hold Morgan in contempt. Agravain was loyal to his last, and Mord turning coat is Arturia's own fault and has nothing to do with Morgan.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 15:12
|
|
|
Like at the end of Fate she accepts that she did what she could and dies peacefully, having finally found some measure of happiness for herself (if only briefly).
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 15:22
|
|
|
TheKirbs posted:Again every non Bedivere knight is either selfishly stupid, stupidly selfish or an outright traitor undermining Arthoria on behalf of Morgan. No, my point was that a better leader might have picked better lieutenants. If everyone you promote is a selfish idiot and you have to work yourself to death to fix their poo poo, then there's one extremely obvious common factor. It's a feudal kingdom. Choosing your lords and advisors wisely and letting them take up your burdens is a pretty vital part of your duties, and was historically the secret to success for most of the 'great kings'. A king who tries to personally micromanage their kingdom is badly missing the point.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2021 15:30
|
|
|
Was it ever confirmed who used Excalibur to blow up big evil white space bunny Altera? Chronologically speaking it couldn't have been Saber, but it's not like defying the conventions of linear time has ever been a problem for the assorted components of the planet's defense system in this setting
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 00:59
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:No, my point was that a better leader might have picked better lieutenants. If everyone you promote is a selfish idiot and you have to work yourself to death to fix their poo poo, then there's one extremely obvious common factor. It's a feudal kingdom. Choosing your lords and advisors wisely and letting them take up your burdens is a pretty vital part of your duties, and was historically the secret to success for most of the 'great kings'. A king who tries to personally micromanage their kingdom is badly missing the point. That's a lot harder than you think it is. When you're the king of a feudal realm you can't just pass over a powerful lord and give it to whoever the best person, what do you think this is, some kind of meritocracy!? They haven't even heard of China probably! IIRC I don't specifically know if the Knights of the Round are also feudal lords in their own right, but historically very often they are powerful local lords and you have to give them important titles, honours and opportunities or its violating the feudal contract. With a quick google, Agravain is the second eldest son of King Lot of Orkney, as an example if you don't give such a person a position at court, with real responsibilities, then they're going to be out there plotting to take what they think they're owed instead. Or it would hurt relations with King Lot who is married to Arturia's sister, so Lot's a brother in law and Agravain is a nephew; that's a very tricky and difficult situation especially when presumably Agravain, along with all the other "idiot and or selfish" knights are also competent fighters and subordinates most of the time. You can't really afford to snub them and give their titles to someone else. Arturia would literally be stuck trying to make use of their skills to good use, that's the hand she has to play.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 03:35
|
|
|
OnimaruXLR posted:Was it ever confirmed who used Excalibur to blow up big evil white space bunny Altera? Going by DC Comics logic, it was a previous version of Arthur/Altria, since Camelot is an ever-reocurring myth.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 04:07
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:No, my point was that a better leader might have picked better lieutenants. If everyone you promote is a selfish idiot and you have to work yourself to death to fix their poo poo, then there's one extremely obvious common factor. It's a feudal kingdom. Choosing your lords and advisors wisely and letting them take up your burdens is a pretty vital part of your duties, and was historically the secret to success for most of the 'great kings'. A king who tries to personally micromanage their kingdom is badly missing the point. The king was king because already existing lords and nobles recognize that person as the king, Artoria couldn't just go around and nominate lords and nobles at her leisure. Also her knights were quite competent at their main job (killing people in war) and some of them (Kay, Agravain, Bedivere) were actually quite good administrators. Their problems were of private, personal nature, not of job skills and competence.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 07:52
|
|
|
Typically in the different takes on the myth, Mordred was able to launch their rebellion because they were left in charge of Camelot while Arthur was out on campaign, because Mordred was the most talented administrator of the Knights. A very amusing picture when imagining our Mordred. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 07:57
|
|
|
Galaga Galaxian posted:Typically in the different takes on the myth, Mordred was able to launch their rebellion because they were left in charge of Camelot while Arthur was out on campaign, because Mordred was the most talented administrator of the Knights. Tbf, the Servant that gets summoned if often something of a facsimile of the "historical" or "mythological" person. At that point in their life Mordred may very well have been a pretty good administrator when given the opportunity to do so, but since Mordred is always summoned as a Servant for well, to be battling, that aspect which is fairly minimal part of their myth is suppressed in favour of Mordred's exaggerated combativeness. Like maybe our Mordred is War/Campaign Mordred where their mind has that as their main focus on top of all the dad issues but "at court Mordred" after the campaigning was over (or in the lull between campaigns) got a chance to stretch their legs and reveal some previous untapped potential. So we only have the "slice" of Mordred that begins and ends over a specific period of their life + the betrayal portion.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 08:03
|
|
|
Galaga Galaxian posted:Typically in the different takes on the myth, Mordred was able to launch their rebellion because they were left in charge of Camelot while Arthur was out on campaign, because Mordred was the most talented administrator of the Knights. Mordred is short tempered and impulsive, but arguably smarter than all the other (featured, on-camera) KOTR, excluding Agravain . She's underachiever Bart Simpson, not dumb-as-Homer Bart Simpson. Like when characters like Suzuka or Fionn decide to flex their brain muscles that are otherwise just inert. OnimaruXLR fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Jan 12, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 09:47
|
|
|
Notably, in FGO summer 1 Mordred has all the same construction ideas as Artoria initially, but changes her idea to something else just to be contrarian.
Tarezax fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Jan 12, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 09:49
|
|
|
While some of that is true, it's worth remembering that not all kings and lords are created equal, and that Artoria created much of her kingdom through conquest - in other words, she did indeed have a certain degree of freedom of choice in who she elevated and who she destroyed. Agravain is actually a good example - the Orkney Isles are nice to have, but neither strategically vital nor especially defensible, and the lords of Orkney have historically only retained their posts at the sufferance of the mainland. The Round Table wasn't simply a symbol of equality - it was a symbol of equality of those who were allowed to sit at it. It implies unity, but also exclusion.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 13:06
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:While some of that is true, it's worth remembering that not all kings and lords are created equal, and that Artoria created much of her kingdom through conquest - in other words, she did indeed have a certain degree of freedom of choice in who she elevated and who she destroyed. Agravain is actually a good example - the Orkney Isles are nice to have, but neither strategically vital nor especially defensible, and the lords of Orkney have historically only retained their posts at the sufferance of the mainland. You are looking at the situation through lens of real world politics which is extremely dumb view when we are talking about literal mythological heroes who were more concerned about resisting sorcerers, slaying dragons and getting swords capable of defeating armies with a single blow than the actual politics and responsibilities of feudal lords. Like after excluding the current Knights of the Round Table, from where exactly should Artoria get the other group of legendary heroes that were loyal to her, on board with the whole Round Table thing and powerful enough to deal with the shitloads of magical, supernatural and super-human threats that were trying to destroy Britain at the time?
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 13:22
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:While some of that is true, it's worth remembering that not all kings and lords are created equal, and that Artoria created much of her kingdom through conquest - in other words, she did indeed have a certain degree of freedom of choice in who she elevated and who she destroyed. Agravain is actually a good example - the Orkney Isles are nice to have, but neither strategically vital nor especially defensible, and the lords of Orkney have historically only retained their posts at the sufferance of the mainland. Nobody is talking about the Round Table as a symbol of equality?
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 13:23
|
|
|
Lt. Lizard posted:You are looking at the situation through lens of real world politics which is extremely dumb view when we are talking about literal mythological heroes who were more concerned about resisting sorcerers, slaying dragons and getting swords capable of defeating armies with a single blow than the actual politics and responsibilities of feudal lords. Like after excluding the current Knights of the Round Table, from where exactly should Artoria get the other group of legendary heroes that were loyal to her, on board with the whole Round Table thing and powerful enough to deal with the shitloads of magical, supernatural and super-human threats that were trying to destroy Britain at the time? Yeah, sure she should. This is Fate. The number of almighty, heroic shitkickers from in and around the Arthurian era expands with every gacha. Meanwhile, if we want to talk in purely narrative terms, Artoria's whole story is about the clash between heroic idealism and realpolitik as part of a meditation on what makes a great king, so the real-world politics of kingship are completely relevant here. SyntheticPolygon posted:Nobody is talking about the Round Table as a symbol of equality? The question is about how much power Artoria had over her vassals. The Round Table is an iconic symbol of their relationship. Why wouldn't it be relevant?
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 13:30
|
|
|
resident sleeper
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 13:54
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:Yeah, sure she should. This is Fate. The number of almighty, heroic shitkickers from in and around the Arthurian era expands with every gacha. Meanwhile, if we want to talk in purely narrative terms, Artoria's whole story is about the clash between heroic idealism and realpolitik as part of a meditation on what makes a great king, so the real-world politics of kingship are completely relevant here. ...literally every single of those shitkickers is already either ally or enemy of the Round Table (and both of allies and enemies tended to be a part of it at some point) and thus already a part of the problem, that's kinda the whole point of being a hero active during, y'know Arthurian era. And the idea that if you kicked out the majority of current shitkickers a gaggle of new shitkickers just as capable as the previous bunch would just appear out of nowhere is kinda stupid, because Heroic Spirit are supposed to be extraordinary and unique beings and not something that a ruler can just reroll by kicking and hiring people for a position until he lands on a hero with the ideal combination of traits and stats, as if he was a Crusader Kings player. And because you brought up the whole kingship discussion, another reason why I dislike your argument is that it absolutely kills it. Because if there was Lancelot 2.0 hanging in the background, who was just as capable at everything as original Lancelot, just without all of his flaws, then obviously Artoria is an utter moron for not replacing Lancelot with Lancelot 2.0 (or not elevating Lancelot 2.0 instead Lancelot to knighthood in the first place) and then not doing the same for all other problematic knights. And that's it, discussion finished, you solved all problems of the Round Table. Congratulations.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 14:26
|
|
|
this is what happens when you canonize short skirt arc
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 17:01
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:While some of that is true, it's worth remembering that not all kings and lords are created equal, and that Artoria created much of her kingdom through conquest - in other words, she did indeed have a certain degree of freedom of choice in who she elevated and who she destroyed. Agravain is actually a good example - the Orkney Isles are nice to have, but neither strategically vital nor especially defensible, and the lords of Orkney have historically only retained their posts at the sufferance of the mainland. This isn't necessarily true, not every conquest is like the Norman conquest of England where you can easily replace the local lords with your own lords. Your new lords have to come from somewhere, and in this case you're proving my point, these knights were instrumental to that conquest and were entitled to a share of its spoils, picking someone else was out of the question. And I don't think your appraisal of the strategic value of Orkney is correct for the 6th century AD and vastly underestimating the importance of familiar and royal ties between people of noble blood. Because everyone is interrelated, piss off Orkney and it starts a chain reaction that undermines her rule with the other lords who are likely related to them and will take a dim view of Arturia violating the feudal contract left and right.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 17:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 08:01 |
|
|
Hace posted:this is what happens when you canonize short skirt arc I will begrudgingly accept short skirt Arc just because Ciel's remake design is just THAT much better than her old one.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2021 20:33
|
|
