Type-Moon Megathread: The Worst Writing and Most Heinous Misogyny

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Redmark: Dec 11, 2012; This one's for you, Morph.
-Evo 2013

BlitzBlast posted:

To be honest, most of my like of F/SN comes from the presentation, particularly the whole "story told over three separate arcs" thing. The story itself is kind of eh (especially when you look at each route individually), the setting seems to be the perfect breeding ground for , and if I had a nickel for every time I've read "this character may seem overpowered, but he's not actually because of this list of weaknesses that will never be relevant and are only around so the character doesn't look OP" in a fanwork then I'd be a millionaire.

Nasu writes good endings (by VN standards at least), and to me that's all I can really hope for. I think Tsukihime's epilogue is still my favorite thing out of all he's done.

Also I find bad pacing a lot more tolerable in VN form than in anime, since it's a lot easier to control the pace yourself whether by skimming or straight-up skipping stuff.

# ? May 18, 2015 04:22

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# ? Apr 16, 2024 23:05

Silver2195: Apr 4, 2012

Redmark posted:

Nasu writes good endings (by VN standards at least), and to me that's all I can really hope for. I think Tsukihime's epilogue is still my favorite thing out of all he's done.

Also I find bad pacing a lot more tolerable in VN form than in anime, since it's a lot easier to control the pace yourself whether by skimming or straight-up skipping stuff.

The Good Endings in Tsukihime are actually pretty bad. Nasu does write bittersweet and tragic endings very well, though.

# ? May 18, 2015 04:43

Allarion: May 16, 2009; がんばルビ！

I think I actually like F/HA more than F/SN, but that's mostly because it is mostly silly shenanigans, and the little story it has is decent.

# ? May 18, 2015 05:19

Compendium: Jun 18, 2013; M-E-J-E-D

Allarion posted:

I think I actually like F/HA more than F/SN, but that's mostly because it is mostly silly shenanigans, and the little story it has is decent.

Same

# ? May 18, 2015 05:22

Rody One Half: Feb 18, 2011

Baz and Avenger have a great friendship and FHA's ending is awesome.

# ? May 18, 2015 05:28

ACES CURE PLANES: Oct 21, 2010

Silver2195 posted:

The Good Endings in Tsukihime are actually pretty bad. Nasu does write bittersweet and tragic endings very well, though.

I'm not terribly fond of Nasu's Good Ends, but I think he can write a fine happy ending. Ciel True is probably my favorite ending in Tsukihime, same with End of the Dream for FSN. Sure, they're sappy with how everything rights itself despite how bleak the ending seems at first, but I like that sort of thing myself.

# ? May 18, 2015 05:45

Redmark: Dec 11, 2012; This one's for you, Morph.
-Evo 2013

Silver2195 posted:

The Good Endings in Tsukihime are actually pretty bad. Nasu does write bittersweet and tragic endings very well, though.

Oh, yeah. I don't really count most of the Good Ends since most of them seem to be just for kicks (ie. UBW Good). I guess the only one that was halfway serious was Hisui Good? I forget how that one went, honestly.

# ? May 18, 2015 06:09

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Kohaku saves Akiha's life instead of letting her and SHIKI kill each other. Kohaku poisons herself, Shiki 'cuts' the poison out of her, the stress causes her amnesia. Hisui and Shiki rename her Nanaya and they all live together.

The poison cutting thing fits with Shiki's established powers, but A) I'm not sure how he managed to do it without cutting any of her body's lines, and B) I don't think amnesia works that way.

Also C) Even if she can't remember it, her living as a maid in the Tohno mansion after everything that happened is a little weird. Let her and Hisui move out and hire people who weren't ruthlessly abused for their whole childhoods.

Endorph fucked around with this message at 06:39 on May 18, 2015

# ? May 18, 2015 06:36

BlitzBlast: Jul 30, 2011; some people just wanna watch the world burn

Kohaku True was basically Kohaku Good anyways. But I don't begrudge it because it's basically a bunch of monsters deciding "you know what, let's try and be regular people" at the very last minute and then doing that.

# ? May 18, 2015 06:50

legoman727: Mar 13, 2010; by exmarx

Hisui's true ending is such a fantastic bittersweet end, easily my favorite of the routes.

# ? May 18, 2015 07:01

Tarezax: Sep 12, 2009; MORT cancels dance: interrupted by MORT

Endorph posted:

Kohaku saves Akiha's life instead of letting her and SHIKI kill each other. Kohaku poisons herself, Shiki 'cuts' the poison out of her, the stress causes her amnesia. Hisui and Shiki rename her Nanaya and they all live together.

The poison cutting thing fits with Shiki's established powers, but A) I'm not sure how he managed to do it without cutting any of her body's lines, and B) I don't think amnesia works that way.

Also C) Even if she can't remember it, her living as a maid in the Tohno mansion after everything that happened is a little weird. Let her and Hisui move out and hire people who weren't ruthlessly abused for their whole childhoods.

Well C makes more sense when you realize that due to the horrific abuse the Tohnos are practically the only people they know. Probably easier to stay on at the mansion than move out to an unfamiliar place.

:smith:

# ? May 18, 2015 07:06

ZoninSilver: May 30, 2011

I can't really agree that the aforementioned ANN podcast was negative towards Fate/Zero, there are some criticisms of course, but the casters involved seem to be neutral at worst towards it. There wasn't a ton of discussion points I hadn't heard about either here or elsewhere already, but it was pretty inoffensive. Hell, the dig against Type Moon fans seemed to be mostly coming from a viewpoint of having to moderate ANN threads about Fate, wouldn't surprise me if that gave a negative impression to most!

# ? May 18, 2015 08:07

GhostStalker: Mar 26, 2010; Guys, find a woman who looks at you the way GhostStalker looks at every bald, obese, single 58 year old accountant from Tulsa who managed to win $4,000 by not wagering on a Final Jeopardy triple stumper.

So Jay O PM'ed me to decline to respond here personally in this thread, but she's allowing me to post the PMs she sent me as her response:

Jay O posted:

Thanks for the message. Glad you enjoyed the podcast. (Okay, glad you listened to the podcast, and I hope you enjoyed it!)

I may be a goon, but I know better than to post in ADTRW. Nobody cares about ADTRW. I don't think the people who post in ADTRW like ADTRW.

Not that the ANN forums are better or anything, but it's partially my job to monitor and respond to stuff in those. I don't have a lot of choice in the matter, I have to help keep the forums civil on one hand, and on the other hand, it's my home base whether I like it or not (and I usually do, occasional flamewars aside.) It's all direct response on this site to content hosted on this site, and it's the site I work for. So it's different, I guess.

Frankly, dealing with Type-Moon a-holes is exhausting enough between the podcast thread and the ongoing Fate/stay Night episode review thread where people wax rhapsodically about the brilliance of Nasu's rape imagery and Nasu's D&D rulebook and Nasu's god-awful prose in between puffs on their bubble pipe, so I can't imagine what it's like in ADTRW, and I don't have any reason to check or care.

Anyway, you have my permission to post this in that thread if you want! Consider this my response. But no, I don't feel the need to hop into that debate. Fans can get their panties in a wad about my misconceptions all they want. I'm sure I've gotten lots of things wrong about the NASUVERSE, I just don't care. It's not some alternate universe. It's a work of fiction written by a man, and frankly, it does seem pretty incompatible with the other work of fiction written by a different man that we were discussing on the podcast. So much so that Nasu has directly stated that the two works have irreconcilably different Gilgameshes! So yeah.

The franchise is not important to me, for better and worse to its fandom (who by that metric shouldn't care what I have to say at all, but for some reason really seem to, because somebody saying a wrong thing about the Nasuverse is a world-ending calamity.) Anyway. I literally only like Fate/Zero, I am a filthy secondary, and that's all hunky-dory by me. But thanks for the heads-up.

Jay O posted:

Follow-up to the previous message: decided to read the thread you were talking about just to see what the tenor of discussion actually was, and it's totally okay in there, I'm not sure what you meant by trouble at the old mill so to speak. Some effortposts saying ANN's pretty okay but the forums suck, some standard SA "lol whatev" shitposting, and an all-around pretty benign, normal-rear end thread. So I don't really think there's anything to respond to!

If there's any confusion about it or anyone cares, I obviously love Fate/Zero, that whole podcast is a giant sloppy love letter to Fate/Zero, but I don't really care about anything else in the Nasuverse, and generally speaking, its fandom is horrible, which makes liking Fate/Zero and trying to discuss it a big pain in the rear end. But that thread seems totally fine.

Still not gonna post in ADTRW, but you can post this as an addendum to the other message I sent you. S'all I have to say about that, womp womp~

# ? May 18, 2015 08:13

Cake Attack: Mar 26, 2010

thanks, i was at the edge of my seat

# ? May 18, 2015 08:14

GhostStalker: Mar 26, 2010; Guys, find a woman who looks at you the way GhostStalker looks at every bald, obese, single 58 year old accountant from Tulsa who managed to win $4,000 by not wagering on a Final Jeopardy triple stumper.

Cake Attack posted:

thanks, i was at the edge of my seat

meh, might as well put it out there since she was nice enough to type it out

# ? May 18, 2015 08:17

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

yeah she was nice enough to call us all assholes. really grateful she went to all that effort. glad i could be called a loser secondhand. womp womp.

tho to be fair that second pm was pretty normal.

# ? May 18, 2015 08:21

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

i am not sure why she is so against ADTRW posting. we are cool and are friends here. in fact, i like adtrw quite a bit!

# ? May 18, 2015 08:26

Namtab: Feb 22, 2010

I'm a self hating anime fan, just like my hero jese otaku

# ? May 18, 2015 08:27

Compendium: Jun 18, 2013; M-E-J-E-D

I'll fight all of you

# ? May 18, 2015 08:27

Cake Attack: Mar 26, 2010

lol at the new thread title

# ? May 18, 2015 08:29

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Cake Attack posted:

lol at the new thread title

# ? May 18, 2015 08:30

GhostStalker: Mar 26, 2010; Guys, find a woman who looks at you the way GhostStalker looks at every bald, obese, single 58 year old accountant from Tulsa who managed to win $4,000 by not wagering on a Final Jeopardy triple stumper.

Cake Attack posted:

lol at the new thread title

Welp, at least I had a hand in it

# ? May 18, 2015 08:30

Rody One Half: Feb 18, 2011

Someone has a beef with us

# ? May 18, 2015 08:32

Compendium: Jun 18, 2013; M-E-J-E-D

Rejoice

I like ADTRW, at least we have a TM thread where we can laugh and enjoy ourselves and not be ANN/Beast's Lair we are our own awful.

# ? May 18, 2015 08:32

Namtab: Feb 22, 2010

Endorph posted:

i am not sure why she is so against ADTRW posting. we are cool and are friends here. in fact, i like adtrw quite a bit!

Post in the subforum of a thing I enjoy? Lol, typical goon trolling.

# ? May 18, 2015 08:32

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Namtab posted:

Post in the subforum of a thing I enjoy? Lol, typical goon trolling.

*looks at 253 page thread where people sincerely discuss anime they love*

Hm... this is some in-depth trolling... gotta steer clear of that

# ? May 18, 2015 08:37

Captain Baal: Oct 23, 2010; I Failed At Anime 2022

quote:

I don't think the people who post in ADTRW like ADTRW.

It's me, I'm the secret ADTRW hater.

# ? May 18, 2015 08:38

Namtab: Feb 22, 2010

Defend my opinions, plz listen to my podcast.

# ? May 18, 2015 08:38

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Beef Waifu posted:

It's me, I'm the secret ADTRW hater.

# ? May 18, 2015 08:39

Namtab: Feb 22, 2010

I do not care about the nasuverse *fires up the podcast machine

# ? May 18, 2015 08:41

Pureauthor: Jul 8, 2010; ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST

I just popped by to say the new thread title owns.

# ? May 18, 2015 08:42

Captain Baal: Oct 23, 2010; I Failed At Anime 2022

Thankyou

# ? May 18, 2015 08:42

Endorph: Jul 22, 2009

Pureauthor posted:

I just popped by to say the new thread title owns.

# ? May 18, 2015 08:44

Flappy Bert: Dec 11, 2011; I have seen the light, and it is a string

It sounds really hard to have a job where you have to pretend to care about something you don't care about at all and constantly make extra posts on your forum about the thing that you don't care about.

# ? May 18, 2015 08:44