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Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Part of wielding true magic is gleaning some deeper understanding of the World. Someone might mistaken Shiro as using true magic since it's described that he gains power from the World in exchange for his soul after he dies. But all he gains is a battery to use his reality marble. Not any deeper understanding or new magic. Shiro's magic circuits suck too much to actually pull off UBW without extra fuel.

To use his reality marble with any large amount of power Shiro either sells his soul, connects to Rin's not-lovely magic circuits, or disregards any safety and has it completely destroy his mind and body.

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Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


They can include all the dead ends and Taiga dojo scenes. In UBW there were scenes like Caster holding Taiga hostage that would have been cool to see the dead end. It's much more horrific knowing that everything Caster promises Shirou is true instead of assuming she's spouting generic villainous lies.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


People should talk about non-lovely spinoffs like High School Miyako at her Kung Fu school. It's like Hayate x Blade with fists instead of swords. When are we getting an anime of that?

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Just a random tangent, but most of the main heroines in the works Nasu works on himself are very conservatively dressed. Sometimes I feel a bit of visual whiplash when looking at the art of the off-shoot stuff like from Extra or GO.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


There are still a few Saber faces they can add to the game. There will be more of those Servants that are being channeled through someone like Waver/Zhuge Liang and Shielder. One for Sakura and one for Rin has already been data mined. There is still Cu Chulain's master that they keep showing off the artwork for but haven't added to the game. Potentially they could add different skins that are nothing but cosmetic in battle like Saber's Fate/Zero suit. Or hell, just make her an entirely new Servant to get.

I think at the very least they have more than a year of stuff to work with.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Raenir Salazar posted:

This is what is kinda frustrating about discussing this show with people is that from the VN roots of the material it doesn't quite straight up follow the rules of story structure so you get these sort of complaints or people thinking the show pulls deus ex machina's when it doesn't.

The best fights are from Heaven's Feel anyway. Since this is suppose to be the second chapter of three, almost by design the best fights have yet to come. But with no plans for a full series adaptation of Heaven's Feel those fights might not ever come. There is always going to be this feeling that the series does things incompletely or lacks something if you don't take all 3 paths into consideration. That's the biggest problem I've always had with the single route adaptations for both anime series.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Preferably, a HF series would start with anime original content revolving around Sakura, Shinji and the Matou family in general. That way even if the same stuff gets treaded over, it's from a different perspective. Also maybe the audience can build up some sympathy for Sakura before she starts going too insane. Sakura could use a good revision or added content.

I rewatched the episode of Carnival Phantasm that depicted scenes from HF through the perspective of Rider acting as an audience surrogate. In the end she states something like, "I don't understand my master at all." I don't think too many people would be upset if certain parts of HF were not completely faithful adaptations.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Finally scraped together enough for a 10 scout. No Nero, but some pretty good consolation prizes. I thought the F/SN drop rate was boosted last event. Seriously though, I lost my poo poo when I saw those golden cardbacks.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


So is Orion's personality like a female Gilgamesh? Considering her (his?) legend consists of threatening to slay every beast in the world, a threat the gods took seriously enough to kill her for, I'd imagine she'd be alpha as gently caress.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Kyte posted:

Orion's the bear. The woman is somebody super secret that nobody will know about until the Oceanos is out. It's Artemis and she does a terrible job at pretending. :v:

Ok, I thought this was the case but since people were talking about Orion's baps I thought I might be mistaken and the bear was ursa major or minor.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Is the bath Artemis CE going to be taken out of the gacha after this event is over? I'd really like to keep trying for one. That CE on Jeanne is so ridiculous. Especially since she already takes half damage from everything but berserkers.

Unfortunately most of my scouting tickets from this event gave me black keys and the one 10 roll I managed also gave me mostly black keys. I think i only pulled one servant and it was the 3* topless tengu rider lady.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Ytlaya posted:

I just farmed enough to make sure I had all the statues/monuments I need to fully ascend Gilgamesh (I don't have any 4/5 star Riders or Assassins so I didn't pick up any of those) + picking up the 500 dango version of the CE in the hopes of it increasing drop-rate (I think that I actually didn't farm enough to make the increased drop rate worth it). I know I should have farmed enough to at least pick up all the stat boost cards, but I would get tired of it after doing more than several in a row. I still should have enough dangos to get at least several of the stat boost cards, at least.

Isn't that CE one of the best for Gilgamesh regardless of the increased dango droprate? Two Gils and a Hassan all equipped with that CE might make for one of the highest damage output teams in the game.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Freak Futanari posted:

The only situation where the black grail CE seems useful is if you're going into a fight where you KNOW you will have to use your command seals/quartz to revive at some point, since everyone revives with 100% NP when you do that.

Otherwise it's just going to get you killed.

In the Nero event I was beating all the 30 AP fights by spending the first two rounds charging double Excaliburs and spending them to clear the third round in one turn. If that isn't enough damage, than a card like black grail could give you a nice boost.

It's best use is going to be when the self-inflicted damage doesn't matter and you are at no risk of dying. So against waves of inconsequential trash before needing a big punch against a boss. It probably makes for a decent CE to farm 20 and 30 AP events.

That's the only place I can see a use for it. Against content that isn't so easy you can normal attack your way through it, but not hard enough that it needs mulitple Noble Phantasms to resolve. Not completely useless, but very niche.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


The first time I used Jeanne was an accident on one of the 30 AP Nero events. She was level 1. Not only was she my last servant standing, but I actually won that battle.

With a level 33 Artoria and a level 27 Jeanne I have been able to clear all the content and events in F/GO. Except for Orion. Jeanne didn't need dead weight Saber in that fight.

So at least from a gameplay perspective, she lives up to the marshmallowy fanservice hype.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Bit of a tangent that I thought of, but say they did multiple movies of Heaven's Feel. I think the best way would be to present scenes non-chronologically. That way you could pace the action scenes more evenly and also give it that broken, fragmented mind feel as both Shiro and Sakura begin losing it. You could even do some of the bad end stuff without it feeling too forced.

Of course it could end up a huge mess, but I think a straight adaptation would already be a huge mess so why not get creative with it.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Aumanor posted:

Unreasonable expectations, most probably, but I was hoping for the five-star Berserker. He's been carrying me as a support until Troika changed his leader :v: Other than Jeanne I only have three-star servants and I've been kind of reluctant in feeding them higher star exp cards. I still don't really have a feel for many aspects of this game. Oh well, I'll do another draw and see what to do from there.

Some newbie questions: how hosed am I for only starting this recently? And is it worth spending Quartz on more inventory slots?

If you recently started the game there is no better servant to have than Jeanne. She's roughly a million times better at lower levels than a berserker. You might start wishing she was a berserker when you can comfortably farm the 40 AP exp quests, but even then I've had level 70 friends list Berserkers get focus fired down in the first turn of the first round and relied on level 30ish Jeanne to carry me through.

Trihugger posted:

The first time I used Jeanne was an accident on one of the 30 AP Nero events. She was level 1. Not only was she my last servant standing, but I actually won that battle.

With a level 33 Artoria and a level 27 Jeanne I have been able to clear all the content and events in F/GO. Except for Orion. Jeanne didn't need dead weight Saber in that fight.

So at least from a gameplay perspective, she lives up to the marshmallowy fanservice hype.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Baal posted:

I'm still waiting for Rin Ishtar and Taiga Angry Cat then I have my waifu, it'll take a while for that tho.

Have they stated what class Rin is going to be? I can only think it's either Rider or Berserker. I loaded up on Rider monuments in the Orion event purely off speculation. And the false assumption that I'll be able to scout her when she is introduced to the game.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Ytlaya posted:

Did anyone mention if you need to finish Okeanos to get Francis Drake from the gacha?

I can confirm that, at least during her increased scouting period, you don't need to finish Okeanos.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


On the subject of the F/SN VN, did seorin's LP of the game ever find a place to be archived? I know this is from like 5 years ago. At the time the "no porn games" rule for baldurk's LP archive excluded it from that site. If you can't be bothered to hunt down every bad ending and Taiga Dojo, the LP was pretty great.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Just giving another option to the guy who seems to not want to play the VN. You can pick and choose pieces from the LP or skip whole sections. Also if you ride the bus anywhere, it's convenient to plop down and read for 20 minute chunks on your phone or whatever. Or while you're eating lunch or between classes.

Usually the biggest problem people have with getting into a VN is the large time commitment.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Well, 360 gems, 15 tickets and one troll Atalanta pull down. Time to attempt on my alt account.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Such despair. Twenty tickets and twenty 10-pulls have yet to produce Rin. Time to start saving up for whenever her pull rate increases again. Gonna try a last ditch 5 tickets when the store resets, but I'm not counting on it.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Ytlaya posted:

Ouch. Did you at least get a single 5*?

I got a Tamamo on the last pull. That's some consolation. She can be the NP battery for all the Rins I use from my friend's list.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


BlitzBlast posted:

I was actually wrong by the way. Ishtar is kinda just friends with you, it's Ereshkigal who is all over you.

So in response to the death goddess who wants you to summon her, you instead summon her yandere sister. Gudako is an epic troll.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Ugh, the limited servants. I've already spent 666 gems and 26 tickets attempting for Rin, so sunk cost dictates that I burn everything on her, but I'm dying for a good 5* single target NP like Scathach. Why couldn't the gacha dates be flipped. I've got a week to stew on it, I guess.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Between this time and the last Ishtar limited gacha I'm up to 825 gems and 48 tickets spent. Still no Rin. Gotta start saving up for the next time she shows up. Also gently caress gacha games.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


As a whole, I don't think 5 star Lancers are any weaker than the average 5 star of any other class. It's just that 3 star Cu is an outlier of power.

Which isn't a bad thing. There should be a few 3 and 4 stars in the game that are top tier to help out the people that roll 1000 gems without ever seeing a 5 star.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Artoria can drop 2 NPs in a row with Waver so she can at least be a 2 hit wonder. Still a Buster aoe NP.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Hey, I got a Jack on Jack day. Nice. I can finally power up some Arts crits. Arts without crits was enough to beat the game, but man did it take a while. I watched entire movies while doing some of those Camelot fights.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Rin basically beats Caster 1v1 in UBW and goes toe to toe with the manifestation of the holy grail in Heaven's Feel. Yeah, Rin could beat other servants. If she didn't somehow manage to gently caress it up in the end.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


I can reroll for Waver on purpose this time instead of him being a booby prize, because I get bored of rerolling very quickly.

It'll be interesting to try and beat France at low levels with a support list flooded with Wavers instead of Jeanne.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Trihugger posted:

Between this time and the last Ishtar limited gacha I'm up to 825 gems and 48 tickets spent. Still no Rin. Gotta start saving up for the next time she shows up. Also gently caress gacha games.

945 gems and 89 tickets now. I used some gems during Valentines and the CCC event. I actually didn't think Ishtar would show up again until New Years so this was a good way of using all my gems so I wouldn't be tempted to pull on a different banner. Time to grind for another 6 months. And still gently caress gacha games.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Sylphid posted:

Hm, going by the wiki, the summoning rate is 1% for 5* Servants, 4% for 5* CEs. I guess in terms of strict mathematics, that follows, but 3% doesn't seem like a huge difference. Odd the way things work out.

Think about it this way. 1% is 1 out of 100. 4% is 1 out of 25. It's actually quite a lot bigger difference at that low a percentage than say 80% to 83%.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


I'm not sure if making Kiritsugu even less likable is what F/Z really needed. What they set out to do with Kiritsugu felt complete whether you took away that he was right or wrong or liked him or hated him. But I do agree that Maiya was underutilized.

What bothered me more was the stuff with Saber. It felt like they were trying to set up multiple inner-conflicts with the character that never went anywhere and then F/Z ends. The whole drinking party between kings leads to nothing for her. Saber serves more as a centerpiece for philosophical debate between Gil and Iskander, but she has no story arc for herself. At best, a very disjointed one.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Bakanogami posted:

Really? I always thought Saber's development was one of the stronger points of Zero, especially considering the limitations of having to relatively match what we knew from Stay Night and Hollow Ataraxia.

By the time of FSN, Saber is basically a depressed mess. Her country has fallen apart and many of her knights have betrayed her. Zero is the answer to the question of why she doesn't want to use the grail to fix everything, but rather to run away, to turn back the clock and make it so that she never became king. It's pretty a pretty bit of intense self loathing that she believes that her doing anything else to try and save her country would be hopeless. She's essentially broken.

Zero posits that she wasn't broken at Camlann, that she was still the embodiment of her ideals, still working to save Britain, but that it was the events of Zero that broke her.

And if anything, her meeting with Iskander and his challenge to her notion of a king, his rejection of her ideal, that really sealed the deal. Much of what she went through- Caster's macabre deeds and Kiritsugu's trampling over the very idea of chivalry, for instance- is repugnant to her, but what really shakes her to the core is the self doubt planted in her by the meeting of Kings, which come to fruition in her battle with Lancelot.

She thought she was doing everything she could to save her country, and that Iskander was a conquering tyrant who didn't care that his empire didn't last beyond his death. And yet Iskander held such sway over his men that they followed him even in death, while Saber's trusted knights were proven to hate her so much that they were driven to madness.

IIRC Fate Zero has even been described by Urobuchi and Nasu as just being 200 pages of Saber bullying, which is absolutely true, but I think it still adds another layer of development to her character and nicely sets up where she was mentally at the start of FSN.

Maybe I misunderstood her character starting point. I admit that I didn't watch the first 3 or 4 episodes of Fate/Zero. I actually walked in on my sister watching it midway through the first season and just hung around and watched the rest of it with her. I thought Saber started out wanting to kill herself so to me, it felt like her arc never went anywhere. If her initial wish in F/Z was to save Britain rather than erase her reign than it's not as meandering as I thought.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Atilla the Hun is a literal outer space alien. Rin makes a multiversal sentient wand. Hell, to beat a Dead Apostle, Arcueid summons a moon from the future while Shiki stabs him with the ultimate perception of death. Time traveling knives doesn't sound too farfetched.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


I'm probably the only one here that enjoyed the alternate reality high school Miyako manga. It's too bad that it got canceled just after introducing female Gilgamesh and Trap Arturia (Arthur?).

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


The story in F/GO is about saving the world though and not about aquiring the grail. They just use the grail system for summoning. And time travel apparently.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Speaking about breaking the rules of summoning, beyond the 2 Fuyuki wars it should be impossible to summon Artoria. Her spirit exists in Avalon not the throne of heroes. Her still alive spirit gets summoned to Fuyuki in her last living moments. It's how she still retains memories from the previous war when Shirou summons her. It's how she remembers Shirou at all and we get the extra ending for Realta Nua.

It's never really explained how the rules are bent or broken to summon OG Saber aside from the rule of popularity.

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Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Kyte posted:

Magi are NERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDS and would be appalled at using their arts for something as base as combat, so yeah.

And then there is Rin who fantasizes about using 3 different pseudo-True Magics and the strongest familiar in the world to beat the poo poo out of all the mages and take their money.

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