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Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


So, how 'bout that Extella?

...

It's really not great, huh?


It's a shame. I like the idea of Fate games with proper gameplay that aren't just visual novels. Not a terrible surprise, but still. I'm a sucker for Nero's design. :shobon:

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Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


cheetah7071 posted:

I'm a little surprised Extella was popular enough to get a sequel because it suuuuuucked. Even if the plot/characters were popular it's not like most of them even originated in the world's shittiest warriors clone and if they wanted to write more stories about Tamamo and Altera they could have done so in a good game.

Maybe people were just interested in a Fate game with actual gameplay? FGO is pretty popular, I think.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Compendium posted:

FGO is huge in Japan and there's a dedicated Goon thread and Discord for it so, yeah. Pretty popular.

It topped charts in China too, at one point.

I managed to break my gacha habit when fire emblem heroes came out, personally. Never again.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


The Saberface has already reached perfection, they don't need to make more new ones!

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Playing Fate Extella is really making me wish we were in a timeline where Platinum developed a Fate game.

Nate RFB posted:

Alternatively don't because it is insidious and probably going to be the death of me.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


On that note, I played Fate/Extra for the first time and it utterly bizarre. :psyduck:

On the other hand, it was kinda like SMT meets Fate, and I'd be totally down to play Persona reskinned as a Fate thing I'm too invested in this dumb fanservice franchise


Darth Walrus posted:

At least what we’ve seen of Extella Link makes it look like a surprising improvement for a 1.5 game. Bad ideas like Extella Manoeuvres have been removed and replaced with more interesting stuff (the new Code Cast system looks a lot more fun) and the revised character movesets look significantly flashier and snappier.

I hadn't bothered paying any attention to it after how, even as someone who liked all the characters, Extella was kinda terrible, so that's nice to hear.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


That's probably at least partially because of the format, though. It'd be really weird if she primarily depended on the opinion of someone who never says anything.

Not that I'm complaining, I'm just not betting on it being a trend. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though!

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


I've never actually paid attention to Hollow Atraxia, what ending does it work off of?



Terrible Opinions posted:

Watched the First Order movie. It was surprisingly good. If the game is the Time Squad style adventure that the movie promised I might have to pick it up.

It isn't, it's suffering against a merciless gacha.

That's basically what it is, yeah, featuring all your favorite characters (IE: Not Sieg) from past Fate installments, as well as plenty of new fun ones (like Marie Antoinette or Jalter or the heart-meltingly adorable Mash) as well as some not so good ones (Orion).

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Nate RFB posted:

It's one of those cases where it could be any of them due to ~reasons~ and you're basically told to not think about it too much.

Also definitely give it a try, it's a ton of fun and develops most of the FSN cast in some new/better/interesting ways. I both regretted sitting on it for so long, but also not because I waited until there was a voice patch and that really did make a big difference IMO.


W.T. Fits posted:

All three of them. Rin screwed up an experiment involving the Second Magic (which, as you may recall, deals with parallel universes and alternate timelines), and it caused elements and outcomes of all three routes to blend together.

I was just thinking about how I didn't really like how Fate/Heaven's Feel worked out for Saber but also didn't like UBW because it left Sakura with the short end of the stick, so HA sounds like my kinda deal.

Yeah I get too invested in anime characters, what subforum do you think this is

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Pureauthor posted:


Except for Rin I guess, who is okay in all 3.

And Lancer, who eats poo poo in all 3.


As it should be.

Thinking about it I might be thinking of one of the bad endings but doesn't Sakura end up spending the rest of her life pining for Shirou in HF? Well, uh, at least things kinda work out in GO?

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Gen sounds a lot like Taro Yoko, who doesn't set out to write grim stories, just interesting ones!

Endorph posted:

That's the normal end, which isn't the canon ending. The true ending is just Sakura, Shirou, Rin, and Medusa living together.

I only got like half the endings for FSN. :effort:

Dr Pepper posted:

Though it's not as purely goofy as Carnival Phantasm. It has a more wistful bittersweet tone.

Oh no, wistful bittersweet is harder for me to take than grimdark. :ohdear:

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Thanks to whoever told me to check out Hollow Atraxia, this is extremely my sorta thing.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Rodyle posted:

Lancer is hot yeah

Lancer traits: Bad luck, good against archers, very attractive.

Also I know it wasn't the lancer you're thinking of but in FGO Scathach's Valentine's Day chocolate is a little chocolate heart with a gae bolg in it. 100% dark chocolate, natch. :v:


Hey, Tomoe and I are good friends, just friends.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


I finished the last episode of Last Encore and while I do like it, after thinking about it for a bit, Nero's attraction to Hakuno is kind of weird because very little of what would have made them attractive to her in Extra is present in his Last Encore incarnation.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


The thing about the whole 'infinite universes' thing makes me wonder is for say, Saber waiting for Shirou. Do any of her alternate reality selves get a say in this? What about Salter? Does she count as an explicitly different person or is she still part of the greater Artoria? Or does the afterlife have infinite copies of every person? What about Archer? What about Shirou getting with different girls in different endings?!

:iiam:

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


UberJew posted:

The Saber that made the promise is dead. She returned to the battle and accepted her death. Any of the other Sabers that aren't dead obviously aren't the one that made the promise :v:

...But ALL Sabers are dead.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Lord Koth posted:

(despite not being a Saber).

Please don't lie.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


UberJew posted:

Not exactly; OG Saber is the same person from history, summoned as a miracle and in essence removed from the moment before their death and not quite a proper heroic spirit. That's why she can't dematerialize, and can remember things from a previous grail war.

Oh, right.

Well, at any rate, I wonder if say, Lancer!Saber is bound by OG Saber shacking up with Shirou.

Alternate timelines are confusing.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Kyte posted:

Except in FGO where she's dead just like everyone else.

Think of the HS as a wikipedia article. There's Early Life, Adulthood, Death, In Other Media Timelines, etc, and you pick the spot you prefer and make a Servant out of it.
Whatever's written in one section doesn't need to affect other sections. (Unless they're deliberately written to follow from the section you changed)

It's no different from picking between the three FSN routes.

So basically Jailter is going to be 12 forever. How bleak. :smith:

I assume the real answer is "please don't think about it so much", but still.


Stairmaster posted:

We also don't know how Gramps is doing

That avatar is horrifying, where did you get it from

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Stairmaster posted:

Jeanne is definitely not 12 my dude

I meant Jeanne Alter Santa Lancer Lily.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


I completely forgot how dark the parts of Carnival Phantasm with Shinji and Sakura were, jfc. :psyduck:

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Kyte posted:

Apparently they're parodies of japanese soap opera-equivalents.

I get that, but compared to everything else in Carnival Phantasm, Shinji beating Sakura and nearly raping her is preeeettty grim.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Galaga Galaxian posted:

Whoa there Gilles. Nero Claudius is certainly immodest, impure, and, depending on definition, unclean, but we gonna have problems if you're saying Umu is not cute! :colbert:

He's simply not cultured enough to appreciate her charm points.

Umu.

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

I love that one of the most disturbing villains in the entire franchise is basically built around a sameface joke


I'm trying to decide who the 'worst' person in Fate is, because FGO tries hard to make everyone at least a little likable.

Arch, Rider of Resistence or Kiriei, probably?

e: Actually it'd be Zouken or Twice probably.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


LORD OF BOOTY posted:

I have absolutely no clue who that is

Also Makihisa is why I narrowed it down to Fate villains because that dude wins, instantly, if we're talking TM in general

e: I googled Twice and... I'm more confused than I was before I did that

Basically:

He almost won the Moon grail war, but couldn't actually use the grail because he was an NPC based off of a dead person, and not actually that peson. So he set up shop outside the grail room's door with his servant, the absurdly overpowered Savior, and asked everyone who got to him "Hey can you wish on the grail to make the grail war permanent?" because in Twice's mind, war brings out the best in people.

When the near-winner obviously said no, that's insane, he shrugged and had Savior turn them into a bloody smear on the floor before waiting for the next poor schmuck.

What confused you? If it was Last Encore related you are not alone.

Endorph posted:

the worst person in type moon is makihisa

Probably, but I meant Fate specifically.

Though TM likes rape as a backstory element enough that I wouldn't be surprised if there was still someone worse.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


LORD OF BOOTY posted:

that makes sense, the T-M wiki just explained all this using a whole lot of words I don't understand because I only have a passing familiarity with F/E and Nasu always takes the longest way around to describe fairly simple things. there was also a whole bio of the living person too and i wasn't sure if you were talking about the living person or the NPC or what the hell their relation is or what. that wiki page was really just a whole lot of :psyduck: to me.

T-M stuff suffers from a lot of it either having no or just really, really bad translations. Then it gets mixed up with people's personal theories and so on.

The deal with Human!Twice is that he was a regular guy from a country that broke out into war, and was traumatized by it. He then died in a terrorist attack, and was used as the basis for Moon Cell!Twice.

The only real important thing about Human!Twice is a bit of dramatic irony; Human!Hakuno suffered from a rare genetic disease of some kind, and Twice was the only doctor that could treat it. When Twice was killed, Hakuno had to be frozen in the hopes someone else could cure it, eventually.

Incidentally, Human!Hakuno is still around, somewhere. I don't think there's been any official confirmation on what exactly is up with her since Extra, CCC, Extella and Extella Link all follow the AI Hakuno.


Now, on the topic of Extra here is something I haven't been able to figure out even remotely how it's explained.

In Extra, everything is in cyberspace due to magic being gone. As a result the Moon Cell's summoning system isn't making a copy of the 'original' in the Throne like a regular summoning, it's making a copy based off of the data it has. As a result, the servants in Extra are basically AI and not magic ghosts. So how do their memories transfer to the 'actual' selves in FGO? Robin Hood, Liz and Nero all know each other. :psyduck:

It's possible I just got something wrong somewhere but it's... Weird.

Rand Brittain posted:

They also seem to rely heavily on the Word of God, without trying to create any context for the very small amount of things the author has said about them, which are often extremely tangential.


Yeah the fact that the Nasuverse is nearly Warcraftian in retcons/exceptions to things that aren't supposed to have exceptions doesn't help trying to keep everything straight.

I'm happy Extella Link answered some of the questions I had about different versions of characters existing, though the entire deal is still kinda confusing.

Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Jun 14, 2018

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


RevolverDivider posted:

Liz is fine, Jack is trash.

Jack is a precious daughter.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


It's called Fate/Stay Night because a lot of Heaven's Feel is staying home at night and not doing much. :v:

RevolverDivider posted:

jack is ludicrously gross pedo bait and literally nothing else.

Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jun 26, 2018

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010




Space Flower posted:

The people we murder don’t need the hearts

No but I need like 100+ of them between both Jeannes so I'd really rather she stopped. :(


Bakanogami posted:

Jack is a good girl but please give her pants.



Good girl, Jack.

Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Jun 27, 2018

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


There's a 2 hour special towards the end of July/start of august, IIRC.

I'm fascinated how it's going to turn out, with Last Encore sort of being a sequel to Extra. :psyduck:

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


I wish...

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Stairmaster posted:

Now that I think about it owns that the op has like twenty paragraphs about f/go but zero about how to get into this franchise.

Start by learning Japanese and tracking down a copy of Fate/Stay Night and then,

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Ccs posted:

It's a bit hyperbolic but as a work of fiction the Fate VN is probably on par with a book like The Name of the Wind as far as wish-fulfillment mage character, overwrought and overlong prose, and misogynistic portrayals of female characters.

It's a perfectly valid opinion.

Fate is better than NotW because it's actually finished though.

Fate is misogynistic now.

The worst writing and most heinous misogyny.

sort of related, my favorite part of that review is it ends with "Grade: A".

e: forgot which ending it was, nevermind that part.

Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Oct 12, 2018

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Ccs posted:

Yeah, she liked the adaptions. I also like the adaptions. Honestly I shouldn't have talked about the VN since I have only played through 3/4ths of the Fate route and I don't think I'm a fan of how VNs tell stories in general.

I don't see how the reviewer, or you, could get the takeaway that FSN is misogynistic.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Terrible Opinions posted:

I mean it's perfectly acceptable to say you're turned off by something being misogynistic even if it isn't misogynistic 100% of the time. Just like it's perfectly acceptable to say you're turned off by the racism in how Conan stories characterize certain ethnicities even if those characterizations generally go away the later you get in Conan. It's not a personal attack on you for liking them nor is it meant to devalue those later parts.

I mean, it's not like being misogynistic is an unrealistic character flaw.

Nyaa posted:

The author does agree shirou x saber isnít realistic.


Note: saber and shirou was originally written as opposite gender.


See: Fate/Prototype.

That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with encouraging Saber to embrace femininity. It's not like she thinks she's a man, she just felt she had to be a man to be respected as a leader because of the views she was instilled with by her idiot rapist father and co.

Terrible Opinions posted:

The simplification of Mordred's plot via magic handwavium and the removal of a lot of the weird drama/sex stuff from Camelot always seemed weird to me for Fate. You'd think anime as it is it would embrace that sort of thing.


What removal?

Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Oct 12, 2018

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Shirou literally stays in the kitchen while his various paramours are all active in their respective fields.

PupsOfWar posted:

probably means mordred being the product of incest between arthur and morgan le fey/morgause

which in various stories took place either via mistaken identity (mallory) or sorcerous deception (a lot of modern arthuriana)

mordred being a homonculus in Fate lets you skip over a lot of complicated shenanigans, and avoids addressing why saber would knock up her half-sister

basically it is a tad funny that the guy writing a weird sex game would cut most of the weird sex stuff out of the arthurian mythos material he was borrowing from


Morgan isn't a homonculus per say, she was an artificially aged human.

Kyte posted:

By the time you watch FZ you're supposed to know the HGW is a violent farce.

One recurring theme in TM works is that there's no shortcuts. Wish granters are fake at best and actively detrimental at worst. The cup wouldn't've ever worked, even without AM, because it'd be thematically wrong if it did.


Eh, sorta. The grail more or less works a few times offscreen when people have a solid game plan. Chaldea's founder in FGO wishes for a massive Scrooge McDuck money vault and the respect of his peers or somesuch.

Pureauthor posted:

In Extella Nero claims she's a virgin, which errrrrr


Imperial Privilege.

Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Oct 14, 2018

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Terrible Opinions posted:

It's really the 'she's made from the souls of aborted/murdered children' thing. Like stupid character design aside what she does in the present is fine. But her backstory being "is Jack the Ripper" combined with the aborted children thing kinda turns a case of serial murders into a gross karmic punishment.

What?

I'm not sure if you just really misinterpreted what Jack was or if you're trying to get worked up about something, but I genuinely can't figure out how you got this interpretation.

Murder Daughter Jack wasn't an avenging ghost of dead babies or something back when she/they were alive in London. She was a girl who had ??? happen to her parents, and she then went on to cut up prostitutes before dying. The spirits of abandoned children combining together to make the servant of Jack wasn't something that happened until after she died.


Good Girl, Jack.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


I think Ibaraki is just supposed to be childish, not an actual child.

Endorph posted:

small her eyes are and how well-defined her face is.

Umu!

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


What else is there even to see for Last Encore?

E: Unless there's going to be a version that's actually good. I'd skimmed LE before after hearing bad things, but when I actually tried to watch the entire thing good lord is it a complete trainwreck.

Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Oct 31, 2018

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


I mean, in FGO Mysterious Heroine XX does promise to be loyal to you if you'll pay for her meals.

And even if she's not the seiba, she is A seiba so close enough.

Stairmaster posted:

should have replaced nero with gilgamesh imo

The best part of LE is Nero. Umu.

Rodyle posted:

I liked Last Encore. Its biggest problem is that it is basically impossible to understand if you haven't played extra.


I've played Extra and CCC and I had no idea what's going on half the time.

Why does Leo show up once? And then never again?!

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Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010


Rodyle posted:

Leo is a big part of the last arc

Oh right, he was Gawain's master.

I think the biggest problem I had is nearly every character sucked so much I never wanted to see them again.

Robin Hood was... Okay, I guess?


Rodyle posted:

The skipped floor is because in the game your 4th week boss is determined by whether you chose the Rin or Rani route. NPC Hakuno in LE never did this, though technically Dead Face Hakuno eventually did.

Anyway, because they're interchangeable they're the most disposable week.

Additionally, the bosses are respectively a different version of Vlad Tepes or a Berserk Arcrueid Brunested. I think the eventual or explanation was made that while Extra Vlad is a bloodthirsty nutjob and looks like poo poo, this is because he wasn't summoned in Romania, where his reputation is better and you would get Apocrypha Vlad, who is cool and relatively well put together.

As for Arc, I think that's just not a can of worms that they're willing to open in adaptations if they don't have to. And if you don't know who she is, she's a TSUKIHIME heroine and not actually a servant at all.

oddly extra vlad is the lancer and apocrypha vlad is the berserker. Go figure.


Motto posted:

it's just a regular word that people meme'd enough that it doesn't get translated. using it so often is definitely meant to be a tic of how she talks, but it's not a made-up thing for her or anything

I've never heard it used by anyone other than Nero or people quoting her.

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