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100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





e: nevermind

100 degrees Calcium fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Feb 15, 2018

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100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





I just finished the Saber route for Fate/stay night, my first exposure to a Type-Moon visual novel since playing Tsukihime a decade ago. Shirou's ":ohdear: but you're a giiiirrrrrllll!!!!" poo poo was really annoying, but otherwise I really enjoyed it.

I'd like to move on to Unlimited Blade Works, I'm getting the definite impression that I haven't seen poo poo until I complete each route. But how much re-reading am I looking at here? Is there gonna be a lot of stuff I already read playing through the Saber route last week?

100 degrees Calcium fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Feb 20, 2018

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





Oh right on! Thanks for the quick and informative responses. :)

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





At this point I think I'm gonna finish the VN because I've already done a whole route in it. If any of the other adaptations are good though, I'll definitely check them out.

For that matter, what would you consider must-[read/view/play] in regards to Fate? I've heard good things about the Fate/Zero anime so I was planning to check that out after I finish Fate/stay night. I'm already playing Grand Order, which is what got me in this mess in the first place.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





I don't really know what I expected, but I feel like the scene-skipping in Fate/stay night is really slick. This is going to be painless, and probably mercifully fast compared to my first playthrough. I was dreading needing to flip through pages and pages of Fujimura flipping out over breakfast or whatever.

100 degrees Calcium fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Feb 21, 2018

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





The lovely thing is, the moment I realized my error, the forums went down.

Early on and Unlimited Blade Works is already really intense! Each route apparently gets its own OP in Realta Nua and seeing what kind of changes this one teases was enticing. I'm really psyched right now.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





Holy poo poo I forgot about doorshark. I really need to play all the routes I missed.

In UBW News



NO WHY :gonk:

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





Galaga Galaxian posted:

Look man, Taiga may not look it, but she is a responsible adult. She's not gonna let Shirou, a healthy young teenage boy, let healthy young teenage girl(s) stay over unsupervised.

It's not fair. In the last timeline I had my stomach scooped out by a roided out demigod, but at least Taiga went the gently caress home and stayed home.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





GodFish posted:

You... you are getting the Taiga Dojo's, right?

I don't understand how someone could dislike Taiga.

Maybe I should be. I'm just doing a walkthrough to gun through this thing because I don't really have any instincts for VNs. I'm really interested in the stories and most of the characters. I'm aggravated by protracted meal scenes that just showcase how zany Taiga is. But then, I get that's the cost of participating in a contemplative anime story.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





MonsieurChoc posted:

But, you have to collect all the death stickers!

I'm confused. Am I really missing out here?

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





Endorph posted:

The taiga dojos are funny surreal gags and offer a few insights into the writing process and theres a decent epilogue unlocked by getting them all. The epilogue offers no plot info whatsoever and is just an emotional and thematic denouement. It isnt mandatory but you should be aware that this stuff exists.

That is good to know! Since I'm already a route-and-a-half deep, I think I'll have to cut my losses and just look that stuff up later. When I get to Hollow Ataraxia, I'm gonna try to ascertain more of this stuff beforehand. I'd even like to play without a walkthrough for a change.

Rodyle posted:

The everyday scenes are what hold Fate Stay night together

https://youtu.be/NVXDiWt2Snk

God, the music in this game really gets to me.

The more I think about it, I was probably hasty to condemn the everyday scenes. I'm hooked on the more dramatic elements of the story, but I guess taking out the quieter "mundane" parts would be like taking out the Ten Forward scenes in Star Trek: The Next Generation. They seem to tell us a lot about where the characters are at and how they relate to each other.

100 degrees Calcium fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Feb 21, 2018

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





Oh for that matter, I guess this is a good time for me to ask. Is the UBW GoodEnd worth pursuing?

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





Right on. I'm finally realizing that this is a game better enjoyed by taking in all the various scenes and trying to exclude some is pretty pointless. Thank God for the skip-already-read-text feature.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





I decided to check out a Bad End and the Taiga Dojo to go with it. I love Taiga now.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





Bakanogami posted:

Just a heads up that there are at least a couple dead ends in the Heavens Feel route (Mind of Steel and Sparks Liner High) that you'll almost certainly want to see, especially if you're more interested in the dramatic parts. Sparks Liner High in particular is some people's favorite part of the VN.

And while UBW good end is a nice little extra scene and easy to get, it's nothing that special. In HF though absolutely make sure you get the true end. If you're going to get the normal end, too, then I'd get it first. Normal first, then True.

Right on, thanks for the heads up on this!

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





hostess with the Moltres posted:



I'm using the top right version, and I've just started. I'm still on the prologue with Rin. There isn't a title screen or status screen yet. Is this version fine or should I get the three on the right?

You're doing the same thing I"m doing and it's been going great for me.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





Nate RFB posted:

Some are fine or at least interesting remixes, though yeah a few are uh...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckc0LNUjF_Y

At least it's all togglable.

Guess I've been listening to the Vita version this whole time. There are no words for how much I hate this track and how eager I am to get through any scene that uses it.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





I finished the True End of Heaven's Feel. I don't really understand what happened but it must be really good because I was ugly-crying at a video game.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





I really appreciate the break-down on that. I know they left sufficient hints and there was a lot of explanation, my eyes were just really glazing over because I was making myself play late to finish the story.

I enjoyed it a lot, and I'm really looking forward to playing Hollow Ataraxia. Gotta get all the Tiger Dojos and check out Normal Ending 2 first, though.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





I don't know what the right term is, but it's annoying when Shirou flips out about how so-and-so is a girl and must not fight, even if she's an ancient legend full of magic power and martial discipline. It's annoying when other people do it too, I don't know if it's because they also experienced a severe childhood trauma that gave them a case of The Ideals.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





It loving sucks and was a pretty sore spot for me, particularly in the Fate route.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





He specifies the girl part frequently. It's a big time conflict between him and Saber in the Fate route.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





I dunno, maybe it's different in Japan. In the United States, having weird outdated ideas about gender roles isn't a mark of trauma, it's just something that people do all the time. If 2004 Japan was actually super woke, then I guess Shirou really is just a tortured idiot.

I mean, not that I'd ever argue that he isn't an idiot, I just think his idiocy expresses itself in an off-putting sexist way.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





It sounds like it can be multiple items out of a set of every possible reason except for reflecting the attitude of the author or the character towards women. Like, sexism don't real or something.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





I mean, it's not a dealbreaker, obviously. I can't stop getting into Fate stuff now, so I'm like, into it. It was just like, drat man, I get it. You don't think girls should fight! And it seems like flawed analysis to identify all the motivations for his behavior but pretend that the behavior itself doesn't also happen to reflect a common and unfair mindset. I tend to take character's values seriously, especially when they so persistently repeat them. Like, I get that there's all kinds of stuff going on in his dumb noggin, but that doesn't mean his poo poo wasn't wack.


e:

DamnGlitch posted:

Are we seriously supposed to re-evaluate every work of fiction by hyper-reactionary rubrics? And disavow them because they donít fit perfectly in the modern framework a small cadre has decided is the gold standard?

How much of this is authentic, and how much of it is bad faith? You can not like a thing and not continually try to relitigate itís worthiness in a space put aside for people who, broadly, enjoy it.

I mean, you can do what you want. It's not cause for disavowal to me, but since this is a space put aside for people who enjoy it, and I am such people, I thought I'd participate in the ongoing discussion.

Unless what you mean is that no criticism is allowed here, in which case sorry, I guess I'll only ever nice things about Fate in the Fate thread.

100 degrees Calcium fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Mar 13, 2018

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





Conspiratiorist posted:

The thing is that

I get it, but he says it like 20 times to Saber. Like, maybe Shirou is actually way ahead of his time when it comes to gender politics, but he really doubles down on that poo poo even while all other prohibitive elements of his relationship with Saber get analyzed and resolved. Unless you really think that all people who exhibit bias do so extremely consistently and within the confines of rational expression, I'd think you'd have to acknowledge that this dude really couldn't let go of the fact that Saber is a girl and that is a reason he can't have her fight, even after he otherwise accepts the necessity of the Servant's role in their partnership.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





It just seems weird to deny it is all. :shrug:

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





Conspiratiorist posted:

...exhibiting bias consistently is exactly what earns anyone the moniker of biased or bigoted.

This is not true. You've never been surprised by a friend or colleague exposing a bias before?

quote:

It's because it specifically only happens with Saber, and only in her route, that raises the notion there's something else going there than simply a reflection of Shirou's, or the author's, sexism.

I mean, I know Nasu isn't the most concise writer, but why would it feature so often if it wasn't at least a factor? Like, what is the story telling us about Shirou when Shirou says the same thing so much?

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





Compendium posted:

Literally no one denies it

Okay this wasn't clear to me, but I'll trust you because I didn't realize I was hitting such a nerve with this. I wasn't trying to disavow the game, I wasn't trying to say Shirou sucks (but he is an idiot), I wasn't trying to say I discovered the secret woman-hating sauce that powers the franchise. I just thought I read people say that this one factor wasn't present and I was baffled because it seemed to occur a lot and I assumed that it was okay to participate in the existing conversation. I'm not here to ruin anyone's fun or re-litigate a dead topic or whatever.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





Kyte posted:

I literally just posted how that came from an inexperienced writer trying to sell an unlikely pairing and fumbling the execution, what the gently caress more do you want.

You're right. You provided a credible explanation that explains the intent behind the writing. I'm sorry I ignored it.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





It's been wild to me coming at it from both ends at the same time. Where in stay night everything is contemplative and treacherous and the True Name is a big dramatic mystery and then in Grand Order you meet 20 Servants in a row and you know all of their names.

This isn't a complaint, it's just nuts exposing myself to both games at the same time and wondering how the franchise got from one end to the other.

I started watching Zero last night, that poo poo is tight as hell. Really glad I played fsn first though!

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





rvm posted:

There are several dimensions to this dumb "But you're a girl!" thing. First, it's kind of a meta-joke, because initially Saber wasn't supposed to be a girl at all. Second, Shirou's attitudes are supposed to be that of an old-fashioned Japanese gossiping housewife or something, for comedic effect. It didn't work too well, in my opinion. Third, and most important of all, the statement "You can't fight because you're a girl" is incomplete, to begin with. If we actually take Shirou's feelings for Saber, the difference of his attitude towards other female characters (already pointed out in this thread) and his survivor guilt into account, it would sound more like "You can't fight <in my stead>, because you're a girl <I love>."

Yeah that makes sense. There isn't anything going on there that can't really be explained by just admitting to myself that the writing can be a little rough (and I can't even begin to speak to what translation must be like) and some allowance for Nasu's intent is in order. It really annoyed me at the time but I kinda get it now.

100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





Are Supports canonically Servants from other Chaldeas?

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100 degrees Calcium
Jan 22, 2011





I need more time to play Hollow Ataraxia. It's a really good game.

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