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Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Irony Be My Shield posted:

Yeah you can only pass the family magic to one child (remember Tohsaka magic works through heirlooms so you can't divide it up without weakening it) and I guess having a second highly jealous child could screw things up. Heck, imagine Shinji only he has enough latent magical ability to be a real threat.

Heirlooms have nothing to do with it. The heir is designated by who the head chooses to pass the family's Magic Crest to - and each family only has one(there's one exception, like there is to most stuff in the Type Moon universe). The Crest both allows quick-casting of all the spells ingrained in it and will passively attempt to keep its owner alive if I recall correctly(pretty sure it was the Crest healing Rin enough that she didn't die of blood loss near the end of Fate route). More importantly, that designation as heir comes with Clocktower protections. In general family heirs are considered off-limits to other mages outside formal duels or whatever, as the Association takes a dim view on that sort of thing and has Enforcers to hunt down those who violate it. A child without that protection but a high number of high quality circuits, as well as a nigh-unique Origin? The Clocktower couldn't give a poo poo if something happened to them, and you can almost guarantee that something would. In general mage families with multiple children either use them for cementing political alliances or just let them do whatever, leaving it up to their personal effort as to whether they accomplish anything within the Association or not. And if they're powerful or unique? They better learn to protect themselves drat fast, or they'll likely be kidnapped by some extremely unethical and/or rogue magus for experiments. And keep in mind that multiple children are not exactly common to begin with.

So from Tokiomi's perspective, it was a way to both give Sakura that protection and importance. Kariya's ranting about how horrible the training was didn't register for a number of reasons. For one, because ALL magus training is extremely hard, regardless of the family. Each family is also HIGHLY SECRETIVE as to their training techniques, so there's no way he could have known what Matou training entailed. So when he's told by someone he viewed as a slacker who'd abandoned his family responsibilities for years that Sakura was being put through hard training, he understandably viewed it as whining - possibly with hint of jealousy, if he was aware of Kariya's feelings towards Aoi. This is not to say that Matou training isn't horrific even by magus standards, because it is, but rather that Tokiomi would not have any reason to think that just because Kariya was saying it was hard. Honestly, I'm decently sure that a decent number of Association families would be horrified/disturbed/disgusted at Matou's methods, but again, it's a SECRET.

And yeah, family disputes do happen too, so that admittedly factored in as well. For a prime example of that, look at the Aozakis.

Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Apr 3, 2015

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Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Raenir Salazar posted:

Seems like the best way short of destroying the grail outright is to wish for "do not grant anymore wishes" maybe?

"Sure, we'll just blow up all of humanity. Then we won't have to grant anymore wishes."

Never attempt to outmaneuver a wish granting device that actively has it out for you. Just walk away or destroy it.


LORD OF BUTT posted:

Or alternately just sit there for an hour plus and outline all the atrocities the Grail is not allowed to commit in the process of granting your wish, D&D minmaxer style. :v:

Doesn't matter. That works with literal-minded genies, but not ones actively out to get you. Those will completely twist around anything you might say in order to screw you over.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Best guess I've seen so far for the sudden maintenance is that they did not intend, nor were their servers built to handle, for many people to be rerolling multiple times in rapid succession. So this may be some way to handle that issue - whether that means simply improving their capability or doing something to hinder that practice, who knows?

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



My experience so far has been... interesting. Given my starter summon was Gilles(Saber), who's not exactly impressive statwise, and my second draw, who I didn't actually get until world 2, was Arash, who's bloody terrible, I've been leaning pretty heavily on that support slot. So far, with ~16 cards gotten from friend points, along with spending 40 summon crystals, I've still not gotten a single 4+ star servant. I've gotten:

1 Star:
-Arash(Archer)
-Mata-hari(Assassin)
-Asterios(Berserker)

3 Star:
-Gilles(Saber)
-Mephistopheles(Caster)
-Medusa(Rider) x2

and Cu(Caster) of course.

Meanwhile, I've ended up with three 4-star and one 5-star Craft Essences.

4 Star:
-Angel's Poem x2
-Projection Magic

5 Star:
-Limited/Over Zero

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Compendium posted:

So far, ancient Rome level seems way more easier to get through compared to France although it helps there aren't any stupid dragons to contend with.

Almost through France now(I think), and am so tired of drat dragons and their huge health pools along with auto-crit moves. Annoyed with auto-crit moves that are part of the AI's standard move complement in general, but the dragons are egregious due to having high hp on top of that.

Currently using Shielder(15) and Medusa(17), with Caster Cu(14) and Mata-hari(14) as support. Currently at the field spot right before the main castle. I have a lvl 12 Kiyohime as well, but not enough points to put her in the party currently due to lvl 4 & 5 Craft Essences equipped. Other owned servants are Asterios, Spartacus, Mephistopheles, Mozart, Arash, and Saber Gilles, so basically the best I can manage. Have enough crystals for another 40 crystal summon, but trying to hold off until France is finished.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



jellycat posted:

I want more Servants… I used up 28 Quartz trying to draw a Servant, but all I got were Craft Essences. :negative:
At least I got a 4-star one…

That's nice, I've burned through 120(in 40 gem batches) and only gotten a single 4+ star servant, and it wasn't even a useful one. It was Waver, which really sucks since you already get a good Caster automatically. Hell, in total, from quartz and friend point draws combined, I've only drawn 11 Servants.



Ibram Gaunt posted:

My only issue with fgo is how shoddily coded it is.

gently caress dragons, gently caress them forever. The bloody mid-stage of a level should not both have more HP and be harder than the boss(Caster Gilles, I'm looking at you).

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Honestly, while her damage is mediocre, I've found Shielder to be pretty decent. Possessing an invulnerability skill helps against the actual bosses with NPs since those are are basically instant kill moves, and with her around that lets me protect two party members. And even if you're using Ruler, some of the bosses have extremely quick charge times, so you won't necessarily have her NP ready in time. The fact that Shielder is neutral damagewise to Berserkers has come in handy too, especially since the AI seems to attack the leader slot more than average, since that gives me a party member that can actually absorb a number of hits from them.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Raenir Salazar posted:

Do I have to do the things you guys are doing if I were to start playing or is it possible to progress with a team of Servants I like? I would probabably want: EMIYA, Lancer, and Arturia. Or EMIYA, Shielder and Kojiro.

You automatically start with Shielder, and you very quickly get another randomized 3-4 star(mostly 3) servant. You also get the 3 star Caster Cu at the end of the first world. Everything else is gained out of pulls, and is completely random. So we're really just running with whatever we happen to draw. Both EMIYA and Arturia are 4 star servants, so so the chances of drawing even one any time soon is low. If by Lancer you mean Cu, he's only 3, so you at least have some chance of drawing him. Kojiro is only one star, so you have a pretty decent chance of getting him after a little bit.

For illustration, I'm almost at the end of Rome, and this is my current roster.



Mostly 1-star servants I'm not currently using, with my party mostly consisting of 3 stars, with the exception of Kojiro. My only servant above 3 is the 5 star Waver/Zhuge Liang, who I'm also not currently using.







Yes, Gilles is currently in my party, but only to finish out his bond. If he actually comes out, things have gone horribly wrong.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Tarezax posted:

Arturia is actually a 5-star.

I have her. She's pretty great. I need another copy to level up Excalibur so it can actually do good damage though.

I THOUGHT she was, but when rechecking the database thought I saw that she was only 4. Looking at it again, I realized I was looking at Nero. Well, at least I got the right face.:v:

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Three Summon Cards and two 40 quartz draws later and I've gotten a whole three 3-star Servants. Yay.:( Because I needed lots more 4/5-star craft essences to add to the pile of unused ones I already have instead. Hell, one of them wasn't even new. I wasn't using you before, Mephistopheles, and I'm still not going to use you now. The other two were Medea and Cu(Prototype).

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Ytlaya posted:

By "roll" do you mean individual rolls or multi-rolls? If you've done 5-6 multi-rolls without any 4/5 star servants that really sucks. :smith:
edit: Oh, so not multi-rolls? Even though it can be tough to remain patient and save up the quartz, I think that it's still technically slightly better to use multirolls (and I think they guarantee a 3-star servant with the current event).

This is my current party now:


The idea is that I have Jeanne to fall back on as a tank if someone gets killed, but I'd rather have stronger damage dealers in my initial party.

I want to also use my Siegfried, but I don't have enough cost. This is more than good enough for now, though. I'm hoping that sticking Gil in my leader slot will somehow get me more friend points, even though he's not really any better than Vlad right now.

I hate you so much at the moment. In a bunch of multi-quartz pulls now, I've pulled one 5-star Servant - Waver, who's crippled by having a crappy NP when you don't have any other good ones - and not a single 4-star Servant. Meanwhile, I've pulled 3 5-star CEs(two Limited/Over Zeroes and one Formalcraft, so not even the truly good ones) and 11+(!!) 4-star CEs( I currently have 11, and I think I used one or two for exp).

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Ytlaya posted:

I think Waver is still really good, simply by virtue of being a 5-star servant and having very high end-game stats as a result. But yeah, they really need to do something about how awful most non-damage Noble Phantasms are, particularly the buff/debuff ones. Even Jeanne's kind of sucks now; it was good early on when the 2,000 (over two turns) it healed the party was a big deal, but it doesn't scale well at all (this is actually the case for all healing abilities). I mean, shielding the party from damage for a turn is certainly handy, but I don't think it's as useful as doing 30k damage or something.

Oh, endgame he's got good stats, but I've also acquired a bunch of other Casters already, even 3-star ones(Mephistopheles, Caster Cu, Medea) who have perfectly acceptable stats for the mid-game, along with having damaging NPs. Sure, he'll outstrip them in the long run, but in the 30s-40s they're perfectly fine. Meanwhile, in multiple other classes I have virtually nothing. My only Saber is Gilles, who's terrible, the only Archers I have are Arash and Robin Hood, and the only Lancers are Leonidas and Cu(Prototype). I've got no 3-star Assassins either, and Sasaki is really starting to drop off.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Compendium posted:

That's interesting to note. Kind of goes with what Shirou says in the UBW route, about how Gil may have a huge treasury, but unlike other Servants, he isn't a master of bringing out a weapon's full potential like Saber or Lancer are able to.

Specifically, he's an "Owner" of them all, rather than their "Wielder." Shirou's copies cheat this as he basically copies the skill of the wielder of a weapon he traces as well. However, this is inapplicable to Gil's Noble Phantasm because he's using Ea, which is one of the few treasures in GoB which he specifically is the "Wielder" of as well. I think it's only Enkidu and Ea, but it's possible there's one or two more in there somewhere. Regardless, there's no fluff reason involved in Grand/Order in it possibly being weaker than Excalibur, it's pure game mechanics.

Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Sep 1, 2015

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Redmark posted:

I don't see that much difference between Ryougi and Tohno, honestly.


Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



-Troika- posted:

Rrrgh fighting Waver in the event is so loving annoying. He buffs his def into the stratosphere eventually and you start dealing 2 digit damage to him.

Any of the Servants with access to an invulnerability skill(Marie Antoinette comes to mind, but there are others) can likewise be infuriating. I've seen them activate it every other turn before, and I'm not sure if there's anything in their algorithm that totally prevents them from doing it every turn, rather than it just being seemingly low in priority. Her skill also gives a multi-turn regen buff, though thankfully not too much.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



For that matter, CEs can also have their level cap raised(max is listed in the compendium). In their case, by feeding them a duplicate of themselves. This is still done during the normal process for leveling them, so they still give you exp as well.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



So, do the starting Servants vary by day or something? Because I seem to recall that your starting Servant is guaranteed to be one of the ones in the background, but I also seem to recall people have gotten ones like Elizabeth Bathory or EMIYA as their starter. Asking because I'm currently rerolling and the only 4* Servants I'm seeing in the background after several rerolls are Saint Martha, Carmilla and Le Chevalier d'Eon.

Mainly just tired of having gone through something like 200-240 quartz, all in 40 quartz batches, and have only gotten a single 4*+ Servant - and not even a particularly good one at that. Thus, just going to continue rerolling until I start with something decent this time.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Use Medea, and proceed to Rule Breaker Nero. Goodbye, stupid stacked buffs.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



It certainly doesn't hurt that she currently has the second highest attack among them either. Rule Breaker really does not do much damage, but that removal of buff effects helps so much considering how much the AI likes stacking them.

Anyways, just managed to plow through the grand finals, even with my team of almost pure 3* lvl 40s(aside from lvl 46 Liz). Blew through the initial stuff with a supporting lvl 60 Hercules, along with liberal use of NPs as they came up. Eventually had to use my Command Seal revive, but no more. Chunked off huge amounts of Nero's health with a combination of Rule Breaker immediately followed by the insane amounts of damage Yew Bow does. After that it was just a matter of keeping Robin Hood alive to finish off the last remainders of her health.



Incidentally, has anyone figured out a good way to apply the poison condition? Yew Bow already does huge damage, but it does far more if the target is poisoned, and there don't seem to be many ways to do that other than Yew Bow itself.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



TheLovablePlutonis posted:

Waver's NP deals a measly damaging one but it hits everyone so ehh

Waver does curse, not poison. Now who knows why they have two different conditions(actually 3, since there's a fire debuff too) that do basically the same thing, since I'm pretty sure Robin Hood's NP is the only thing that actually cares, but there you have it.



Nyaa posted:

I read from some posts that the damage is calculated after you apply the poison, thus your huge damage if you successfully inflict it.

Somewhat dubious of this for a few reasons, but I can't disprove it either, other than pointing out that it only seems to apply the debuff if it fails to kill them.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Ytlaya posted:

Man, that new 5* CE sounds like it blows (unless you're using a servant like Medea maybe). There's already a 5* that gives a 40% bonus to NPs, and if the battle is lasting long enough for you to really take advantage of the extra 20% on this new CE, that 500 HP per turn demerit is going to wreck you. I guess it could maybe be useful if you're grinding levels that you're pretty sure you can beat, but it sounds like a terrible idea for tackling difficult content.

Nah, even for Medea it sounds bad. Her NP really doesn't do that much damage, even to Assassins, with its main utility being the fact that it removes all their buffs when it hits(even Invulnerability!). I'd much rather not impinge on her survivability just to get a bit extra damage instead of more use of that utility.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



So, uh, I just grabbed an EMIYA off my friends list to use for a battle, as opposed to one of my normal choices, and UBW caused massive graphical glitches on the battlefield after it had been used - like the game couldn't decide if it wanted to display the normal terrain or the field of swords. Have other people been seeing this?

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Compendium posted:

Same. It's about on par as the Good Ending for Arcueid in Tsukihime for me as in, I don't think it works well, but it's there, so what can you do.

I never really got the obsession with many people seemingly always wanting a sunshine and roses ending. Because in another example, also from Tsukihime, Hisui True just thematically fits so much better than Hisui Good. It's somewhat bittersweet for obvious reasons, but at the same time it's optimistic in and of itself. I don't need the "and then everything magically worked out perfectly" end. Similarly to above posters they don't annoy me or anything, I'm just completely indifferent to them.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Ytlaya posted:

I believe it is the item you use to upgrade a skill to level 10. In other words, you probably won't be using it for a really, really long time.

In case you're not aware, you can upgrade Boudica's NP by feeding her to herself in the Noble Phantasm menu option. She might be worth using in place of one of your existing 1*/2* servants until you get something better.

Boudica is, bluntly, NOT VERY GOOD. Her stats are pretty low even among Riders, and she has the additional drawback that she has a non-damaging Noble Phantasm, which are almost unilaterally bad(there are a few exceptions - Ruler's, for instance). Level and upgrade her when you have spare stuff lying around to unlock her Interlude, but I wouldn't bother actually using her otherwise if you can help it.




As for Halloween Liz, I'm torn. On the one hand, she's a great Servant, but on the other she's also the one I chose when they did that free giveaway. So if they're exactly the same, I'm somewhat annoyed I didn't choose a 4* from a different class. I'll probably hold onto the Dragon Fangs I currently have(only one short of her second ascension at the moment) until we get more info.

Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Oct 11, 2015

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Ytlaya posted:

While I agree about the NP, her stats aren't any better or worse than other 3* Riders (this applies to pretty much every servant, actually; any X* servant will have roughly the same sum of HP/ATK as any other X* servant). She has 10130/6289 max HP/ATK while Medusa, for example, has 8937/7200.

Except that 1000 point difference in ATK is huge, and I'd say it's significantly more important than the 1200 point difference in HP. That gap in ATK means there's actually a noticeable difference in how quickly you kill stuff - which means the enemy gets more attacks as well. And, more importantly, a better chance of activating their NP, which tend to be one-shot kills regardless of HP you have due to how much damage they do.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



To be fair, Jeanne IS really good and some of us would really like to acquire her. That said, you're mostly right since nothing else there is really worth much. So as tempted as I am for that increased chance, I'll be continuing to save as well.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



We're getting Caster Tamamo, which is awesome, but unless she has some truly great active skills it's yet another really lovely non-damaging NP. :(

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Game came up, but it's only loading the Chaldea Gate and Interlude buttons, and Chaldea Gate only has the normal quests in it. Doesn't seem to be fully loading though. Probably just try again in a few hours.



Oh, and:

Freak Futanari posted:

She could have 1 ATK and 1 HP and a NP that Arashed your entire party and she would still be worth it because she's Tamamo.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Those are incredibly good skills. Was thinking at first that the Buster boost wasn't particularly good, since Casters only have 1 Buster card, but all her skills have secondary effects, rather good ones at that, too. :psyduck:



Compendium posted:

Grinding hell begins...

edit; oh my god the Master's room is decorated with some much Halloween crap it's amazing. Can't wait to see what they'll do for Christmas...

I'm still having issues. :(

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Compendium posted:

Have you updated your version of FGO yet? That might be why because I just updated and things are running smoothly for now. I'm just blasting through the story events.

Yeah, I had it updated hours ago. Did some fiddling with it just now and it's working. Not sure what the issue was a few minutes ago.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Well, what do you know?

:smug:


Of course, this means that after this event(and acquiring Halloween Liz) that 3/4 of my 4*+ Servants are Casters(Liz, Hallow Liz, Tamamo, Waver), but what can you do? :v:

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Freak Futanari posted:

Grats!

I still haven't dared spend any of my quartz/tickets yet, because i'll probably rageuninstall the fuckin game if i don't get her

Yeah, I burned through the 13 summon cards and didn't really get anything of particular note, then decided to do a 40-quartz draw, and it was loaded with goodies. Besides Tamamo, picked up a Kaleidoscope too along with my second Formalcraft. Also got a few other 4* CEs that I was missing.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



So, glancing around the stages while waiting for my AP to recharge, I found Tamamo's Interlude(it's in AD 0060) but it has a reward item I don't even remotely recognize. Is that the NP upgrade thing? It's a golden coin with Excalibur on it.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Well, I've pushed through the main quest line and picked up my first Hallow Liz(and my second, since I had a bunch of candles), through using a Gold Fruit along with a timely level-up. I'll be holding off using quartz to refresh AP until the last day or two if I'm still short of items, and just steadily grind until then using standard recovery and the Gold Fruits that'll be dropping during those guerrilla quests.

Incidentally, what did you get pumpkins from? I've seen plenty of candles, and a decent number of bats so far, but not a single pumpkin.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Well, on the bright side I may end up with one extra pumpkin after everything settles down. Managed to get one post-maintenance compensation pumpkin reward quest done in between the initial maintenance and the servers crashing into emergency maintenance again. Second quest I went into had errors on the reward screen(displayed the rewards for previous quest I'd finished, and seemingly nothing was gained once I exited), so that one's probably a wash.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



All of Halloween Liz's skills are ridiculous. They all have multiple (good) effects, where virtually all the initial Servants only had one effect, or a few related effects, for each skill.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Incidentally, if people have not noticed it yet, the schedule near the bottom of this page is really bloody handy. It lists when all the Guerrilla quests are taking place, as they change by the day but the full schedule is already known. As those are by far the best source of pumpkins, they're kind of important.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Oh, did they make them permanent? I just assumed that all the ones that popped up in that timeframe, along with some compensatory ones, were made permanent due to how long the maintenance lasted.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Well, those 14 new quartz gave me enough of a margin to roll the dice again with another 40 quartz draw(wanted to make sure I had some left over). Sadly didn't get what I was hoping(another Tamamo), but did pick up two Siegfrieds along with my fourth Medea. So, while nowhere near the best one, I finally have a gold Saber.

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Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Talons of Chaos are annoying as hell to get. Missed the ones from that early event, and chimeras have such a low drop rate of them that I still haven't gotten any. And Lancer Liz needs 8! They really should have been one of the ascension items offered in the event shop this time around.

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