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Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Been playing Extella. It's kind of amazing how much Cuchulainn's fortunes have improved now he's in the same game as another Lancer who actually deserves to get poo poo on constantly.

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Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Sun Wu Kampf posted:

Why do you hate Karna? :argh:

Awful, gaudy, way-too-busy design that clashes horribly with the sleek, stylish aesthetic of Stay Night and Zero.

But we all know I was really talking about Liz.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



So Extella's main plot seems to be your descent through the three circles of increasingly terrifying waifus, with Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus as the least fearsome option, and it's pretty great.

Also, Nero's reaction to meeting Altera, a living embodiment of eldritch destruction in a human-shaped shell, being ':stare: oh my god I need her in my bed right now' was quite something.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Endorph posted:

ASTOLFO RIDES DICK

Isn't that true of most of the Riders? Even Alex.

Especially Alex, come to think of it.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Raenir Salazar posted:

It doesn't seem to result in a cleanse as people said it does; Kiyohime's skill seal didn't get cleansed.

I feel like its a decent way for them to make the combat a little more interesting; plus enemies releasing buffs on death like with some of those CE's.


Examples?

Do an imagesearch for Enrico Pucci.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



MonsieurChoc posted:

I'm still waiting for Odysseus.

Can't help but wonder what class he'd be. Rider (Giant Wooden Horses)?

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Schubalts posted:

Like Hercules, he could probably be everything but Caster.

Hell, as a historical smart person who hung out with a bunch of wizards, he could probably make Caster.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Endorph posted:

'mash' just makes me think of one of the black tristars from gundam 0079. (whose name is マッシュ incidentally)



Someone draw these guys in Shielder's outfit.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



InfinityComplex posted:

So it's confirmed that BB's in the game and she's 4*. Looks like she's the free servant.

Who's BB, if not Blackbeard?

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Rangpur posted:

Fate/Apocrypha: I like the look of Mighty Morphin' Power Mordred. I also hope she can contract with another master after that grizzled biker gang mage eats it, because there's no way in hell that guy is the main character of a Fate show.

I seem to recall that they're the Alex and Waver of this story. Only, y'know, role-reversed.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Sylphid posted:

That's basically his whole shtick in the EXTRA series. Without a Shirou around, he's just a nameless Heroic Spirit who does what he does best, bail people out of trouble with a smirk. He's much more casual when his alter ego isn't around.

I really did feel that him just casually handing over Rin to Shinji in UBW really needed to be dealt with more by the story, especially if it wanted to keep him sympathetic. Like, he was so desperate to murder his past self that he kidnapped his past self's girlfriend (as in, very likely someone he himself once had feelings for) and left her tied to a chair in a room with the biggest creeper in Fuyuki not named Gilgamesh. That's kind of a big deal.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Ytlaya posted:

As a show I consider UBW inferior to Fate:Zero, but (if you're referring to my earlier posts by any chance) the former had cooler fight scenes.

Early on, yeah (Saber versus Berserker was hella solid), but they really struggled keeping Gate of Babylon and Unlimited Blade Works interesting.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Ytlaya posted:

Yeah; most of the more melee-oriented servant fights were really cool (like Archer vs Lancer and the aforementioned Saber vs Berserker), but the EMIYA vs Shirou fight was kinda disappointing mainly because they tried to stretch it over 2 episodes (and you also can't really make the fight look as cool when one of the people isn't a superhuman servant). I thought Gilgamesh vs Shirou/Berserker were both about as good as they could be, given the kind of straight-forward nature of GoB, though.

I fel like they could have done a bit more work with camera angles and emphasised the physical contest between Shirou and Gil a little more. We know how UBW works at this point, we don't need another gazillion scenes of CG swords raining out of the sky. Just keep it in the background, show UBW blades deflecting GOB weapons aimed at Shirou's back, that sort of thing. Keep it a sideshow, because the whole point is that an ordinary schlub is neutralising the King of Heroes's primary weapon and forcing him to fight like a (relative) normie. Hell, you could even make the fight a little more undignified than a simple sword-fight, just to rub it in - kicks, sand in the eyes, all that jazz. Really emphasise how Shirou is holding his own through desperation and a gleeful willingness to fight dishonourably.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Tribladeofchaos posted:

Ahaha I had no idea that was the same woman!

The worst writing and most heinous misogyny huh? :allears:

IIRC, that UBW rant was because she loved Fate/Zero and was very disappointed by UBW. Isn't getting super mad about bits of the franchise pretty normal for Fate fans?

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Personally, I just think it's a shame that it's cross-platform. Makes it really ugly compared to dedicated PS4 Warriors games.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Terrible Opinions posted:

Why does Fate refused to let anyone have a beard unless their story specifically mentions that they aren't supposed to have a beard? Is it like because we're in the fem-Arthur universe everyone's beard status was also reversed?

This is why Apocrypha's character designs are garbage - an entire two servants have reasonable, historically-appropriate beards, and they didn't even bother to give Jeanne a lush, flowing Bandholz.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Plutonis posted:

Apo designs are good other than Jack what the gently caress

Achilles is a teenager wearing a Halloween costume he made out of cardboard and dustbin lids, Chiron is his boring dad, Atalanta is Anime Catgirl #98457, and Karna and Siegfried are gaudy, overdesigned disasters. Jack goes without saying, though at least she looks more otherworldly than Achilles. Jeanne is just Arthur with curves and random metal plates stuck all over the place. Spartacus ain't great, but his huge, goofy grin goes a long way towards salvaging the design. Will, Semiramis, and Vlad are pretty respectably cool, Astolfo is very characterful, and Fran and Avicebron are at least the fun kind of silly, even if they could stand to be a little less overdesigned.

So yeah, there are success stories, but in general, Apocrypha either piles on way too much ugly, unnecessary detail, goes real boring, or both, and really makes me miss Takeuchi's sleek, elegant, and understatedly mystical designs. Consider Fate/Zero - when Diarmuid is your worst (or, at least, least interesting) Servant design, you're doing pretty well for yourself.

Terrible Opinions posted:

Fate has failed on the beard front since long before Apocrypha.

Exactly. To have the occasional reasonable, character-appropriate beard is unforgivable.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Lord Koth posted:

I mean, multiple versions of Atalanta's tale end with her literally being divinely cursed into a lioness (for boning in a temple... because a different goddess threw a curse on her to do so. Seriously, it kind of needs to be repeated that the entire Greek pantheon were complete dicks). For once a design like that actually makes some sense in that some of said misfortune sticks.

I feel they could have been way more imaginative with it, though. Catgirl ears and tail and a pretty dress are really low-effort. C'mon, guys, try leaning into that harsh contrast between aristocratic elegance and savagery a little.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:




Guess Hakuno's gearing up for a safari, huh?

Wonder whether the enemy this time will be Velber again, or someone/something a little more left-field?

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Screenshots and extra details.

They've really stepped up their environment game - that stained-glass floor looks great. Hopefully, that bit about the Servants' attacks looking even flashier will translate into some revised movesets - Karna in particular was kind of rubbish for a Top Servant, except for that one jump-and-dive move.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Man, a walk through Wikipedia will take you to some strange places.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Raenir Salazar posted:

Is there something in the LN that explains why Semiramis seems very attached to Shiro?

He's a sexy, superhumanly nice living saint with an intriguingly devious streak. That's enough, really.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



I mean, he might tie you to a chair and leave you with a rapist, but hey, nobody's perfect.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Even if Apocrypha isn’t your jam, I would strongly recommend watching the Chiron vs. Achilles fistfight from Episode 21. It’s absolutely stunning.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Captain Baal posted:

If only either of those characters weren't the most boring thing

Yeah, but that matters significantly less for a three-minute animation showcase.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



It’s especially awkward because the most famous golem story was about the one that defended the Prague ghetto from anti-Semitic attacks.

Apocrypha’s version of Avicebron does draw from a number of actual pieces of Jewish and European folklore (especially the Golem of Chelm), but they could have been a wee bit more sensitive about the incredibly charged racial context around stories of Jewish mysticism.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Plutonis posted:

I'm not gonna bother with a guy who's doing an insane leap out of bad faith when the story itself made the reason that Roche was only picked as Golem Core because Avicebron couldn't put his hands on the fat useless uncle after switching sides.

... but he still decided that his pursuit of spiritual fulfilment warranted murdering a child, and that’s a narrative trope with an incredibly ugly history.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Endorph posted:

Yes, but my point is it isn't even an unintentional problem.

Well, I’m glad you get to tell us that.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



I suppose a big part of the issue is that the great big ‘mad scientist’/‘evil sorcerer’ European tradition that Fate draws on for its mages’ aesthetic has significant partial origins in Jewish mysticism and the anti-Semitic response to it. It’s why Victor Frankenstein has that particular name. It’s why R.U.R., the film that gave us the word ‘robot’, is so heavily rooted in golem myths. It’s why Rotwang, the evil robot-making sorcerer-scientist from Metropolis (the film, not the anime) is so heavily coded Jewish - he even has Einstein’s hair.

Now, these tropes have been in the cultural consciousness for so long that it seems very unlikely that this was intentional (although Darnic, the Eastern European ‘master swindler’ who pulled a fast one on the Nazis and then retreated to his castle to use artificial children as batteries for his science, does make you wonder...), but it does mean that when a Jewish wizard using Jewish magic starts getting up to the standard evil sorcerer-scientist gig, a whole bunch of long-buried subtext starts becoming text again. It’s why the new Wolfenstein games, for instance, were real fuckin’ careful with how they portrayed the Da’at Yichud.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



I feel that Semiramis’s palm-spikes must be pretty inconvenient. You’d poke an eye out every time you tried to blow your nose.

Then again, I guess that’s the point - showing off that you never actually need to use your hands because you’ve got people for that.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Trihugger posted:

Altera is a being similar to Tamamo. Being an independent entity that was separated from a larger, multi-versal force of destruction could qualify her as something like a god. Although I'm not sure what classification the Umbral Star or Cells created by it are considered.

Or maybe Altera get's her divinity by being the divine avatar of "The Worf" of the Fate franchise. Seriously, she jobs harder and more often than Gilgamesh does in the original VN.

She gets it because that big weird sword of hers originally belonged to the first god of war, and her taking it and using it to ravage the earth has bound it into her own legend. She’s a literal ‘scourge of god’, in that she murdered her way through the original pantheon and took their stuff.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



LORD OF BOOTY posted:

er... i don't get the reference but yeah, "bad guy" would probably be my first guess in that situation too and that character being best grandpa would actually be something of a twist

unlike Kotomine being evil, which is the most blindingly obvious poo poo of all time and yet neither Shirou nor Rin are able to pick up on this until he is actively showing and telling them all the horrible poo poo he does

Think it might be a reference to Berserk, where the Skull Knight is the heroes’ noble, heroic guardian angel.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Pureauthor posted:

Apparently Scotchtape has been announced for Extella Link.

Scotchtape?

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



... my word.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Terrible Opinions posted:

How is Siegfried's character design so ugly? Like I wouldn't expect to find something that unappealing outside of early Age of Sigmar designs and deviantart.

Apocrypha Servant design in general is... spotty, to say the least.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Bill is pretty good. Achilles is awful, though. Looks like a low-budget cosplayer.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



One thing that popped a while back that I didn’t see in this thread was the teaser trailer for Extella Link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3I_aC7e3sQ

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Endorph posted:

Like, what, oh no, Archimedes might not rant about bullshit nobody cares about for thirty minutes! Characters that aren't named Nero, Tamamo, and Elizabeth might actually get more than two lines of dialogue! Characters might actually interact! Oh, the humanity!

TBF, it was pretty good ranting. Like, that VA really went ham.

Archimedes was a pretty lame villain, but that breakdown in the final route sure was something.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Endorph posted:

a fate warriors game is a good idea and if they just increased the speed and removed extella maneuvers itd be fine

Maybe give the whole thing a bit more impact, too. Alex is one of the few characters who feels as powerful as he should. Karna is especially disappointing, but Gilgamesh could feel like more of a shitwrecker, too.

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Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



cheetah7071 posted:

Nero might be the best saberface but she isn't the best extra servant

Seriously, Chiwa Saito gives a goddamned show-stealing performance as Tamamo. Really brings her together as a character. I didn’t feel that Sakura Tange really brought out Nero’s more regal side - she’s always voiced as a kind of bratty teenager, which obscured some of the nuance of her characterisation in the text - but Tamamo is convincing as the ultra-professional concubine, the goofball monster-girl girlfriend, and the demonic, seductive tyrant who brought down an empire, and the way she switches between them at the drop of a hat is hilarious and slightly terrifying.

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