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Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


I've always liked Saber, from the moment I first started getting into Type-Moon stuff in general. She has a simple, straight-forward personality that never hides behind guile (a la Rin) or is hiding a crushing amount of personal issues that desperately need resolving (a la Sakura). She's hung up on her past, of course, but it's not something that's constantly hindering her, and she only really gets depressed about it if the subject is brought up.

I would agree she's probably the least interesting of the Fate heroines, but that's a minor issue as far as I'm concerned. She gels well with the other main characters as she tries to keep her head up and believe in her ideals, no matter how much pain she experiences along the way. Her character arc resolves in a nice way, I think, that she did the best job she possibly could have and should be proud of the life she led. Kind of like what Rider Zero told her to do, but achieved on her own terms.

Even as Saber Alter she never loses her quiet dignity and has a code of honor she listens to, even if it's directed toward a very bad end.

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Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


The thing with Shinji to me is that he's growing up completely in Sakura's shadow, given he's hopelessly inferior to her in every way and can't do anything to change that.

I could see a "redemption" moment where he realizes that he can live his life not in the shadow of Sakura or whatever, but his character is so irredeemably unlikable (and intentionally so) that I don't think many writers could have done something like that at all without it falling flat. Even with Zouken, he's so old and completely out of his mind by the end that you have to keep that in mind when he's speaking to understand a lot about what kind of man he is and what he's doing. Gilgamesh is likable in his own unique way, and Kirei is more a tragic villain than anything.

There was never any moment that you could see there was a better man underneath Shinji's exterior than what he was showing. I much prefer UBW's "putting the fear of God in him to scare him straight" approach than a genuine redemption moment.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


To be honest, my time through stay night I didn't really "get" the problem with using all three Command Spells. The dialogue was saying it's a bad idea, because then your Servant could do anything they wanted, up to and including turning on their Master, but all of the Servants, with the exception of Lancer (kind of. He likes Bazett, but hates Kirei), and Caster liked the person who summoned them. Even if Archer does betray Rin, it wasn't really out of malice and more of his hands being tied regarding Shirou.

zero made it a lot clearer why the Command Spells are important. Three chances to compel your Servant to do something specific or gain a very momentary advantage, like teleporting somewhere or what have you. If you use them for stupid things, then other Masters still have those chances you wasted.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Was Ilya ever really motivated to win the war? If she knew the true nature of the Grail and how the war is supposed to end, there's no way she'd be too enthusiastic about the war coming to the end. My guess is she's more interested in punishing Shirou in any number of horrible ways than killing off Servants.

Always seemed kinda counterproductive of the Einzberns to send in the sacrificial lamb to be the Master of Berserker, even if she was really the only one capable of controlling him. Even if she made it to the very end, with only one Servant left, there's so way she'd order Berserker to kill himself, and like with Irisviel, the more the Grail gets filled, the worse she's off. I do like how it's a consistent theme with the Einzberns that they'll do ANYTHING to get to the Grail, including all of their antics during the Third War, splitting the duty of fall girl and Master during the Fourth War, then going to the trouble of summoning Hercules and leaving nothing to chance by sending in their own Master in the Fifth War.

The Tohsaka seem to mostly play on the level, the Matou are on a sharp decline, but the Einzberns are just obsessed with reaching the Root.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Well, Saber disappeared in zero after destroying the Grail for seemingly no reason, so she wouldn't have much knowledge about anything that came after (finding out the Grail is evil and Kitisugu killing Kotomine). The only specific thing Saber really knows about him is that she really, really doesn't like him, which plays out most prominently in that one Bad End in Fate where Kotomine comes to Shirou's house.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


anglachel posted:

As far as why Saber disseappered I imagine it had something to do with her weird status as a Counter Guardian.

Oh, I was just saying that Saber didn't understand why Kiritsugu wanted her to destroy the Grail, and never really found out why until close to the end of Fate, or not at all in UBW and Heaven's Feel. From my understanding, the Holy Grail needs to be in the world for the Servants to exist, which is why she disappeared.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Was in a big department store in Tokyo today, saw this poster on the wall of one of the stores.



Really wish I could have bought it. I like how Shirou is the smallest character in the image.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Nate RFB posted:

I'd be pretty interested as to how much of Lancelot's abilities actually had some origin in Arthurian legend.

As far as I know Arondight is completely made up and is way more modern in origin than anything else related to Lancelot. As far as his combat abilities go, no need to go into a big explanation about those. He was supposed to be the best knight and the only one who could beat Arthur in a sword fight. For another one of his abilities, his disguises are a reference to many stories about Lancelot using disguises, like in the story of Elain of Astolat.

But his qualification for the Berserker class comes from two things: his affair with Elaine of Corbenic, where Guinevere's rejection of his affair caused him to go mad with rage for two years until the Holy Grail cured him of it. The other part of it is rampage to save Guinevere from burning at the stake, which was in Monty Python when Lancelot just goes into that castle and starts going out of his way to kill everyone for basically no reason.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


That moment in particular is the moment I'm most looking forward to seeing animated. The way it plays out in the VN is so brutal, that it can't end up anything else except awesome. I wonder if they're going to do a callback-like scene of Berserker nearly chopping Gil in half, but the chains stop him at the last moment.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Hommando posted:

That reminds me, Shirou never learns Saber's identity in UBW. It's going to be kind of weird having Shirou being clueless about her identity when the audience already knows.

He also never finds out who Saber is in HF, since Saber wasn't around nearly long enough for him to find out. It's just as well, since pretty much anyone who has a passing interest in the franchise probably already knows Saber's true identity.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Another year, another round of great Fate-related Halloween fan art (hey, it's October 31 here in Taiwan).



The best though was that one artist a couple years ago putting all the major Fate/zero characters in Halloween costumes.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


I think it's largely because unlike a lot of characters in Fate, he has no real tragic backstory or anything, and is so completely sure of himself that he exudes a very popular kind of confidence in himself and what he believes.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


jellycat posted:

I liked the Kiritsugu I heard about more than the Kiritsugu actually depicted in Fate/Zero. Like, putting aside ideals or whatever, he literally says something like "this gun… it weighs more than my eight-year-old daughter…" before cheating on his wife and making out with his mistress.

I think the idea with Maiya is that Iri knows about her and accepts her role in Kiritsugu's life as a way for him to keep calm and relax when he's out doing something dangerous. His smoking goes along with that, too, which is why he never smokes around Iri and Ilya.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Yeah, Kariya is one character I've never really gotten the huge liking for. I understand that his goals are at least selfless, but he's so completely deluded about Aoi that it goes all the way past selfless and back to selfish again. Tokiomi may not be a great man, but Aoi is happy with him.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Xoidanor posted:

Uh, what did happen to Lancer at the end of Fate? All I can remember is him falling off the face of the plot barring a certain bad ending. :confused:

Gets wasted by Gilgamesh in the basement of the church after Kotomine, Saber, and Shirou all have a little chat.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


I'm thinking Archer betrayal. It's the best way to leave a hook for the second cour.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


If I remember correctly, Kuzuki thinks Saber is more impressive than he first thought because even with the huge element of surprise he had, Saber was still able to stay alive because of her natural combat instincts.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Between Caster's hood, Sakura's ribbon, Rider's visor, and Saber's ahoge, it seems headgear in the Fate universe is a big deal. It can completely change your personality and turn into an entirely different person depending on if it's on or off. Caster being the most incredible transformation, of course.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Christmas comes to Fuyuki.



A Christmas or Halloween without more Fate-related fan art just seems incomplete.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


I actually finished a rewatch of KnK today (with the exception of Future Gospel. I'll get around to it), and while I agree Paradox Spiral is the best of the movies, I have to say I enjoyed the sixth movie a lot more this time around than last time I watched KnK. It's definitely the most un-KnK -like of the series, but making Azaka the protagonist in all but name made it a lively change from the other movies. Shiki's great, but I feel Azaka is a neglected character from the series, and it was nice having her in a starring role.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


So, it's been a while since I played Fate, so my memory could be a bit off, but the next sequence of events that happens in the story from where season one ended was that Caster "kills" Kirei and takes over the church, Rin and Archer go after Caster to kill her, he betrays her, and then Rin and Shirou team up again and come up with the idea of asking Ilya and Berserker for help. That could be a good way to end the first episode of the new season.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


taser rates posted:

It's distinct from any of the timelines depicted in F/SN, since iirc Rin didn't even summon him as a hero in that timeline.

I think the only things we know for sure about the alternate universe 5th HGW was that Shirou summoned Saber, Shirou came into possession of Rin's pendant at some point, never decided to destroy the Grail, and eventually won the War and used it to become the hero he always wanted to be.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Raenir Salazar posted:

Is the Heaven's Feel reference in the Fate anime Archer vs. Berserker fight when Archer throws his swords like a boomerang, him losing feeling in his left arm or both?

I think the Heaven's Feel reference was more the confirmation that Sakura and Rin are sisters, and Zouken's very brief cameo.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


I wonder how they're going to handle the resolution of the Archer vs. Shirou fight. If I'm not mistaken, Archer has a skill that allows him to survive a bit if he receives a mortal blow but doesn't instantly kill him (like Berserker taking his head off or something), so stabbing Archer through the chest like the CG in the VN would fall under that, I think, but it might be tough to communicate that so it doesn't feel like the climax of Shirou vs. Gilgamesh is a deus ex machina. Maybe they'll just have him crumple to the floor so it looks like he's dead.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Yeah, the sexism complaints I never really understood, because it's not as if the story bears out Shirou's concerns about a woman's ability to fight, or that his views are ever endorsed by the author at all. His views are the understandable product of a very damaged mind, but that's all they really are.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


KaneTW posted:

There was a Caster H-scene?

The only thing approaching that would be in the VN, when it talks about how Kuzuki met Caster, Caster was nearly out of mana and told him what he needed to do to give her more.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Also, favorite TM heroines would have to be Saber (I've liked her since I first read the Fate route), Azaka, and Aoko Aozaki. I've also got a soft spot for Sakura, but she wouldn't make my top three.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Maid Bazett exploding an apple.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Beef Waifu posted:

purple hair is gross

Nonsense. The best hair color.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Sakura's hair was black before she started living with the Matous. The purple hair is from the worms, one of the few times anime hair color is actually explained by the story.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Saber Lily does.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Beef Waifu posted:

That's why Saber Lily was the best design until the UBW anime.

Finally, something we can agree on. I got a big statue of Lily when I was in Tokyo last year for 200,000 yen. Worth every bit.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


One's enjoyment of Movie 6 is pretty directly proportional to one's enjoyment of Azaka, and I have to say I like Azaka quite a bit. It's definitely the least KnK of all the movies, but I'd probably put it 2nd or 3rd (1 and 3 are tied for me).

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Compendium posted:

I suppose more than one would be too much.

I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have anything concrete about how they want to do HF yet. Probably will be a while before we'll hear more news about it. One movie would probably be too little, two movies too much.

And speaking of reviews, it might have been linked here or in the UBW thread, but where was that one website where the author was a total newcomer to the series and ended up liking the show a lot? I'd be interested in reading his impressions of the last few episodes, or the series as a whole now that it's finished.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Compendium posted:

Oh.

In other TM related news, the insert song from episode 20 of UBW, Last Stardust by Aimer was released yesterday! It's really nice, but I like Aimer's songs in general so I guess I'm just a chode.

Her voice sounded kind of throaty and weird to me at first, but Brave Shine grew on me really fast. Of ufotable's four OPs they've used between zero and UBW, Brave Shine is very close to To the Beginning for me.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Trihugger posted:

They can include all the dead ends and Taiga dojo scenes. In UBW there were scenes like Caster holding Taiga hostage that would have been cool to see the dead end. It's much more horrific knowing that everything Caster promises Shirou is true instead of assuming she's spouting generic villainous lies.

That dead end in particular is one of my favorites. If you don't choose the right option in that scene, it leads to Shirou being captured and put in some really sick incubator-thing for an unspecified amount of time until Rin comes to bail him out, and after seeing his pathetic body crumpled on the floor, she decides to leave him alone and continue the war by herself.

The best dead ends were always the ones that had super elaborate scenes before the ending, like the one in Fate where if you decide not to investigate the basement of the church, Kirei eventually makes a house call and shows Shirou the body of one of the kids in the basement before killing him, while Lancer is fighting with Saber.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


The artist for that is now expanding into "Saber Playing Fate/grand order". The artist is a certified cool dude.

Apparently Gilgamesh is an iPhone user.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Compendium posted:

Not even Ueda Kana, Rin's VA can avoid gatcha madness.

https://twitter.com/uedakana/status/638423851576111104

She's always struck me as the nerdiest of the Fate VAs. I have no idea why.

Maybe because she's in like a billion different series.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Shirou vs. Archer was never meant as an action fest. It's the symbolic culmination of the entire route, with Gilgamesh being "we have to tie up the loose ends to end the plot" kind of thing.

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Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Of course they aren't, but expecting that fight in particular to be non-stop fighting is expecting it to be something it never was and never was intended to be. The entire point of that fight was for Shirou to reject and triumph over Archer's fatalism. By necessity, there's going to be a lot of talking in a scene aiming to do that. Shirou beating Archer in a straight fight with a minimum of talking wouldn't thematically help the story at all.

As many have said, there were problems with the pacing of that fight, and fine, I accept that. It almost certainly could have been handled better, but that is much different than expecting something totally different in the adaptation than how that exact same scene played out in the VN. Aside from Saber's interjections and the invocation of UBW, that scene was handled faithfully.

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