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GyroNinja
Nov 7, 2012

AlternateNu posted:

I liked that gender bend even more than Red Saber just because it is based on an old literary rumor. :v:

Wait, there's an actual reason for it?

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GyroNinja
Nov 7, 2012

Compendium posted:

Shinji is there to be the best at being the worst.

And even then he's still beaten by Gilgamesh.

Shinji is pretty much Gilgamesh without the A+ Charisma.

GyroNinja
Nov 7, 2012

Freak Futanari posted:

Kiritsugu did nothing wrong

Kiritsugu's a pretty hosed up guy who can't really connect with humans on any level since he needs to be emotionally prepared to push them in front of the philosophical trolley should the situation arise, but he's pretty good at problem solving, as long as those problems can be solved with killing a bad guy. Plus, it always rankles me how in Heaven's Feel we're supposed to root for Shirou saving Sakura because she has a sprite and a backstory, and everyone she (admittedly accidentally) kills is just a faceless NPC, and thus morally irrelevant. Sure, Kiritsugu's morality is cold and mechanical, but at least it's equally cold and mechanical towards everyone, and not dependant on how well he knows you.

GyroNinja
Nov 7, 2012

Stairmaster posted:

shameless repost



Is this... Charlotte's Web?

GyroNinja
Nov 7, 2012
I don't think Caster captures Saber in the Deen anime because I know they manage to squeeze in the second Saber/Kojiro fight in there somewhere as well.

GyroNinja
Nov 7, 2012

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

i really feel like it's specifically rich people, not just adults

the adults who aren't bonkers rich are totally fine (the Fujimuras are well-off, but not to the level where Taiga doesn't have to work, and she's totally fine; Kuzuki's pretty much all but stated to be an alright dude, if kind of frightening, when he's not put in opposition to the protags; the couple who get hypnotized into thinking Waver's their grandson in Zero are pretty good people)

meanwhile, out of the kids who grew up in direct connection to old magus money, you've got Rin, who turned out fine because she was largely isolated from it after Tokiomi died, Shinji, who is just absolute human garbage, and Sakura and Illya, who were basically just pawns and/or victims of that old money rather than having any real meaningful privilege as a result of it.

"Put in opposition to the protags" is a pretty big euphemism for "was a-okay sacrificing an entire town full of innocent people for the sake of his waifu". Like, Kuzuki's not as big of a monster as Zouken or as sadistic as Kotomine, but calling him an alright dude is a pretty big stretch.

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GyroNinja
Nov 7, 2012
I can't really see how you would redeem Shinji without writing him as a completely different character. I don't think Shinji as written could conceive of rebelling against Zouken for Sakura's sake. Shinji is a mediocre magus raised in a household where magical power was the only thing that mattered, and he clung to his position as the family scion as his only source of pride. When Zouken takes on Sakura as the new heir, he has to view her as the one usurping his birthright, because if he got mad at Zouken instead, he'd have to admit that the way he defines himself and the world is bullshit, and he isn't a strong or brave enough person to do that. Part of the reason that the magic families in F/SN are bad is that they create people like Shinji, and I think re-writing him into a sympathetic character would lose some of that. You could write a different version of F/SN where the Shinji analog is capable of making different choices, but I don't think that version of the story would be necessarily better or worse; just different. And I don't think that the Shinji we have being unredeemable is a flaw or mistake, just a valid storytelling choice.

That said, I totally agree that Shinji sucks the fun out of the room anytime he appears in one of the more comedic spin offs, in a way that non of the other villains can match. At least Medea's relationship with Kuzuki is a redeeming feature, and Kotomine and Gilgamesh are so over the top that they have their own kind of charisma, but Shinji is too vile to laugh with and too pitiful to laugh at.

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