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Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Okay, now that there's a thread to post spoilers in, how do you think the UBW anime will tackle Rin seeing Archer's past in her dreams? Those scenes were rather important in establishing Rin's character, showcasing in particular how similar she is to Shirou in some aspects, and I'm not sure if they'll survive the adaptation.

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Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Clarste posted:

That actually seems like the easiest part of the adaption? Just show the dream, and make it clear it's Rin's by showing her sleeping or whatever.

The point is that until the end of the third dream, it seems that it's Shirou who's dreaming, not Rin.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Yosuke posted:

Independent Action is a skill that simply describes how long a Servant can last without actually being connected to a Master's mana pool, not how well they deal with Command Spells. Archer was never really contracted under Caster during the betrayal, and was solely reliant on Independent Action keeping him around for the duration. The entire reason the alliance happens is because he wanted Rule Breaker to hit him because Rin used a Command Spell to actually stop him from attacking Shirou.

Gil can't be ordered around in FSN because he doesn't actually have a master/command seal relationship. He survives on an indefinite Independent Action skill and feeds off a different source for prana to fuel his normal abilities.

As for why you can't use all three of them, it was made clear in Fate (though never practiced) in the explanation that once you use up all three, you're out of the War. You are no longer the master and thus, there is no connection: the Servant has no mana to use to stay in Fuyuki. Its an immediate forfeit, basically.

The way I've always understood it, Servants need Masters for two things. First, to provide mana to sustain(and heal in case of injury) their material form and fuel their abilities- this is actually the less important part. The Grail summons Servants with big enough mana pool to last them a couple of days without receiving any from the master-vide Saber, and Servants can acquire mana through other means, like Rider, Caster and Gil!Archer.
The second, more important function is to act as an anchor of sorts, keeping Servants in a time and space where they don't belong. Servants with Independent Action can remain in the world for some time, dependant on the rank of the skill, Servants without it fade away almost immediately. Archer WAS contracted to Caster- Rule Breaker seems to automatically transfer the Command Spells to her from the Master of whoever she has stabbed.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Cake Attack posted:

remind me - how much of how the fourth grail war played out was established in F/SN versus F/Z?

Very little:
Kiritsugu, Kotomine and Rin's father(we don't even get his name in F/SN) were Masters.
Saber didn't get along with Kiritsugu - he only spoke to her three times.
Kirei killed Tokiomi(him using the Azoth dagger to do it was also added by Urobutcher).
At one point, Saber used Excalibur on the river and Kiritsugu used the now-wrecked boat to absorb part of the blast.
Kirei accidentaly unleashed the fire in the area that is now Shinto's park when he wished for a distraction.
Kiritsugu shot Kirei through the heart and ordered Saber to destroy the Grail.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Newest ep of UBW is up and, as predicted, it's all the Berserker fight. Ufotable is taking a bit of creative liberty with the original material, giving Ilya enough battle capability to drive Rin into a corner, and having Saber use Strike Air: Hammer of the Wind King from Fate/Zero to take one of Berserker's lives. Archer's Caladbolg II, in turn, seems to have no effect, making Ilya's comment that Archer interests her more than Saber seem knda strange. Animation was top-notch, though.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Xoidanor posted:

What? That's an odd change considering that Archer being able to fight was the diverging factor in the VN. :psyduck:

Well, it still seems to make Ilya decide that it's way past her bedtime and she's going home, so perhaps it killed Berserker for the second time this night, and ufotable just completely failed to convay it. I don't know, man :shrug:

Cake Attack posted:

meh no effect is a little much, it pretty much nukes the area and is enough to have Ilya call Berserker off

Well, yeah, but in VN it leaves Berserker without half of his skin, while here he just kinda shrugs it off. Which in light of Rin saying that it was an A-class Noble Phantasm makes even less sense, since God Hand can only nullify attacks up to B-Class. And Invisible Air is only C-class, so it shouldn't even leave a scratch. Uggh.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


YggdrasilTM posted:

I think that you are not remembering well.
The "half of his skin" scene is in the forest battle in Fate. And Rin did it, not Archer.

Huuh. Well, my face is pretty red right now.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


KoB posted:

I'd say that only 40-50% of Carnival Phantasm is good. And that's probably being generous, its been a while since I've seen it.

But its really loving funny when its good.

Berserker's First Errand and Holy Grail Grand Prix are pure loving gold.

New episode of UBW is up and, following the pattern of alternating acton and breather/exposition it's mostly a talky one. Not much for people who already played the VN, but there's still some eye candy in the form of Shirou's Tracing. Oh, and they somehow keep finding ways to make Shinji's smug face even more punchable.
Next episode: Fall Down, Your Mind. Oh, and also it seems that they'll include Elegant Moonlight: VS Assassin from the Fate route to show off some of Sasaki's moves. Makes sense, I guess.

Aumanor fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Nov 15, 2014

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Cake Attack posted:

wouldn't your past self dying also be time paradoxy?

although I accept that killing your past self yourself is probably a step higher on the paradox scale

The Throne of Heroes is beyond time and space, any Heroic Spirit within is pretty much immune to anything that happens outside. You could prevent Shirou from ever being born in any and every universe and it would have zero effect on Archer. As a matter of fact, even Archer directly killing his past self only has the most miniscule of chances to erase him.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Not sure if it's been mentionned here before (and I'm too lazy to check), but I really like what they're doing with the soundtrack. Every Servant gets not only his own leitmotif, but a set of instruments associated with him. So Saber gets strings, Rider gets some techno and fake Assassin what sounds to be traditional japanese pipe instruments. Archer's theme opens with the first couple sounds of Emiya, and then breaks into a guitar riff.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Kubla Khan posted:

Archer doesn't know for sure what killing Shirou would accomplish - it's just him gambling on the chance that wiping out Shirou in the same timeline would wipe out the idea of Archer's existence as well. We don't know if there's such a possibility in the first place, or whether Archer's just delusional. He simply hates Shirou (and his own self, by extension) too much to care.

I'd say it's the other way round- what he hates most is himself, and his hatred of Shirou is just an extension of that. Up until the end of their fight he doesn't really see Shirou- only his own past mistakes and the ideal that failed him.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Silver2195 posted:

Specifically, Zouken changed Sakura's hair color from black to...black

Maybe one of those colors is just very dark brown?:shrug:

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


So it looks like we have three episodes left till the end of this cour? The botched ambush and first projection next episode, a bit of a breather with Tohsaka moving into Shirou's house for 11, and Rule Breaker for the clifhanger before the long wait?

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Bholder posted:

Maybe...

Next episode is the bullshit fisticuffs with Souichirou.
Then the date and Saber is stolen.
And after that we get the counterattack and Archer's betrayal, but there are quite a few scenes inbetween and there's hope for some bonus scenes like Kirei's death on screen.

You're forgetting the entire day ten. There's no way they're going to cram that, the date and Caster's attack into a single episode.

Twiddy posted:

Yeah I'm hoping they get to the bullshit fisticuffs next episode rather than merely setting it up.

They will. The next episode preview screams projection magic and that's toward the end of the fight, so it looks like they're covering the entire day day 9. What I'm wondering about is whether or not they're gonna show more of Rin's dreams of Archer, since the day starts woth the "Story of a knight" intermission, the last and most important of the three.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Bholder posted:

Sure they can, nothing interesting happens in day 10.

Oh wait, I just checked, there's a really fabulous scene between Shirou and Archer they WILL keep.

There's also Shirou's conversation with Tohsaka on the porch. All in all, it's an important episode for giving insight into both Shirou's and Tohsaka's characters. Unless you're only in the show for the fight scenes.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Sylphid posted:

I'm thinking Archer betrayal. It's the best way to leave a hook for the second cour.

I really don't think they have enough time to reach that point, even with that one-hour episode.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Raenir Salazar posted:

Sure, but how come they cut Kuzuki who I presume still managed to "block" or deflect them the same way he did Excalibur.

In addition to what others said, with Saber Kuzuki could focus on catching her sword bcause it was enough to neutralize her damage. With Shirou he had two blades to worry about, so he couldn't block them quite as cleanly.

E: Ninjas :argh: So let's add one last thing: Saber went into the fight expecting Kuzuki to be a normal scrub, and pretty much everything Kuzuki managed to do in that fight rode on that initial element of surprise. A big part of why he managed to catch Excalibur was that until it happened Saber hadn't fathomed even for a second that he could do it. Shirou, while much worse in combat than Saber has an idea what to expect. And, as Kuzuki acknowledges, if Saber got back into the fight she would mop the floor with him in round two.

Aumanor fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Dec 14, 2014

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Paracelsus posted:

I presumed that was causality wonkiness, sort of like how Rin's jewel ended up being a catalyst to summon Archer Emiya because it would be used to heal Shirou from near-death a few days later.

Not really certain on this one, but I've always though that it was Archer's pendant that made Rin summon him.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Cake Attack posted:

Here's a list of some of the things I'm really looking forward to being animated:

- Unlimited Blade Works
- Archer and Shirou's duel
- Shirou's Unlimited Blade Works

in the HF movies

- Nine Bullet Revolver
- The sparks liner high OVA which they will make
- kotomine and shirou having a fist fight to the death while shirou turns into swords

some epic stuff ahead, fellow anime fans

There's also "Lance of sure hit, shield of no loss", as far as flashy fights go. But what I'm looking forward to the most is "End of a hero".

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


So. It looks like the last episode of this cour will indeed end with that roof scene.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Bholder posted:

Hopefully with the 1 hour lenght we might get some bonus scenes with Kotomine and Caster.

Seeing as you can hear Joji Nakata's dulcet tones in the preview, that seems highly likely.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Something that this episode made me wonder about: when exactly does Rin realise Archer is the future version of Emiya? She seems really shocked when she finds about the double pendants post Archer's betrayal, but during the date she assures Shirou that he'll grow taller and dodges the question when he asks why she's so certain.

Aumanor fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Dec 28, 2014

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Crossposting this from the UBW thread:

YggdrasilTM posted:

Well, - the set of command spells in the war in this moment is still 21. The reason is that Kuzuki, while acting as a "anchor", does not have any command spell

I think you're forgetting the three Command Spells Caster fooled her Master into wasting so that she could backstab him.
At this point the status of Command Spells issued in this war is:
Shirou's x3 all used, contract with Saber broken by Caster.
Rin's x3 2 used, 1 remaining.
Bazett's x3 stolen by Kotomine along with control over Lancer, 1 used to order him to spar with all Servants once, most likely 2 remaining.
Caster's Master's x3 all wasted on trivial tasks, Master himself killed by Caster once he could no longer stop her.
Ilya's x3 most likely all still remaining.
Sakura's x3 1 used to create the Book of the False Attendant to transfer Rider's possesion to Shinji, no idea what might've happened to the other 2.
Caster's... hmm... did she get any Command Spells when she summoned fake!Assassin? Assuming she did, x3 2x3, 1x3 1x1, 3 Command Spells pulled out of her rear end when she bound Saber with a contract, 1 used to order Tohsaka's death, one used to bend Saber's will to Caster's command, currently being resisted.

That gives us 24.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Angry Grimace posted:

From what I gathered, he's not even a "real" servant; he's just an extraordinarily powerful familiar she's calling Assassin while the real Assassin simply never shows up in non-HF routes and Zouken just sits around not doing anything or even being mentioned by his name.


Doesn't Sakura still have the Command Seals? I'm not sure why, but I seem to recall that in HF, Shinji originally loses Rider and then just demands more seals from Sakura.
I think he does count as a Servant, even if he is a bit of a bootlegged one. That is to say, he does fit into the Class system, Grail has supported his summoning and his death fuels the lesser Grail. The main difference between him and regular Servants is that he's not a Spirit from the Throne of Heroes, and that he's somehow bound to the Ryuudou Temple gate.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Again, crossposting form the UBW thread:

Myriad Truths posted:

Also Caster can do all sorts of weird things, with her being a fake Master and whatever. I think Caster just has a special affinity with cheating. There's all sorts of things she can do against the logic of the War that sound absurd because she's such a good cheater.

If you think about it, all the breaches in rules Caster makes make sense. The Holy Grail War, with all of its regulations is, after all, nothing more than an immensely elaborate ritual prepared by a group of magi. Caster, being from the Age of Gods and all, is most likely significantly stronger than any of the magi directly involved in its establishment (welll, not Zelreth, oviously, but from what I remember he mostly just watched.) so it makes sense that she can bend the way it works a little.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Bholder posted:

Can't wait to see people lose their poo poo about Wedding dress-Saber, at least I'm sure the magical vibrator will be gone.

Bholder posted:

magical vibrator

I... WHAT? :what:

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012



I mean, I've played the VN and read Seorin's LP, and I can't recall anything of the sort. The magical vibrator, that is. Even rereading the scene now, I have no idea what that could be refering to.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Iretep posted:

Some heroes have multiple class options to get summoned as. Cu Chulainn for example could be summoned as a caster, lancer, archer, berserker or lancer.

You've written "lancer" twice there. I'm also not certain about him being possible to be summoned as Archer, got any source on that?

So where exactly do you think next episode will end? My guess is that the last thing we'll her is the final "hint" to Archer's identity ("Trace on") before it's expicitly spelt out. I wonder if the people who STILL havent figured out that Archer is Shirou (I know one such person) will at least catch on that.

Aumanor fucked around with this message at 11:43 on May 1, 2015

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Angry Grimace posted:

Weird question - is the Jeweled Sword from Heaven's Feel a Noble Phantasm?

How do they eve determine what is a noble phantasm anyways?

Gem Sword Zelretch is Zelretch's Mystic Code- like Kiritsugu's Thompson Contender and origin bullets or Tokiomi's jewelled staff.

Noble Phantasms, like Heroic Spirits are embodiments of legends, so Zelretch cannot be one- it's not famous, and neither is its owner and creator.

Bazett's Fragarach is somewhat unique in that it's both her Mystic Code and a Noble Phantasm.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


YggdrasilTM posted:

Anyway, here there is the post credit PV for HF.

https://imgrush.com/E_hTp6VmhV0Y.mp4

Crossposting this from the UBW thread, since it's more relevant here.

Looks like we're at least getting Whirlpool of Fate (2). That's good, I'm all for new arrangements of the original soundtrack, as long as they're not as bad as the 2012 Realta Nua versions. I'm hoping that we'll finally get Church on the Hill and its remixes.

Come to think of it, Heaven's Feel is the route that gets the most of unique tracks in the game, isn't it? Fate gets two, UBW doesn't get any from what I remember (funnily enough, the adaptation used both from Fate in the penultimate episode) (and then the epilogue stole one from HF), and Heaven's feel gets a whole bunch of them (Sword of Promised Victory (HF mix), Violation, Sonic Barrage, In the Name of God, All Evil of the World, Light and Darkness, Mighty Wind, Deep Slumber, I'm probably forgetting some).

Aumanor fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Jun 28, 2015

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Ytlaya posted:

I think it's strange because Gilgamesh should have had Avalon in his Gate of Babylon and known about it as a result; I mean it's the scabbard for Excalibur, and I'm pretty sure Excalibur (and literally every other noble phantasm ever) was in his treasury. It would be one thing if Gilgamesh just had "a whole lot of Noble Phatasms", but he's supposed to have literally every single one with Ea being objectively the best one of all.

This only really bugs me because of how explicit I remember them being about the abilities of Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon and Ea.

Excalibur and its sheath are not weapons forged by humans or gods, but something given shape by the planet itself out of collective wishes of humanity, and thus has no prototype that could be stored inside GoB.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


AlternateNu posted:

Does this mean if Gil was caught in Avalon's dimensional bubble, he'd be able to nuke Avalon (the concept) with Ea like he did Ionian Hetairoi? (Assuming it actually works similar to reality marbles.) And, yeah. IIRC, the Avalon they use in Fate isnt the real Avalon, it is just a traced copy.

The Avalon Shirou uses in Fate is a traced copy, though it is unique among his projections in that it isn't weaker than the original- since it's been a part of his body for ten years he can reproduce it perfectly. Saber uses the original Avalon, stolen from her before the battle of Camlann, recovered by the Einzberns and returned to her by Shirou. And I don't think Avalon has a "dimensional bubble" Gilgamesh could get caught in- it seems that it only affects the user himself.

BlitzBlast posted:

Ea at full power can easily rupture dimensional walls so even Avalon wouldn't work. But Gilgamesh never uses it at full power so the point is moot.

I don't think it would work- Avalon's impervious even to the five sorceries, one of which explicitly deals with parallel dimensions.

Aumanor fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jun 28, 2015

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


I don't think 2 movies would be enough. In prticular, I don't see fitting anything more than the last two days into a single movie. I'd go with three, though that has the obvious problem of of the second movie being having to cover all the dead air in the middle of the route, but the end of the fourteenth day (Sakura returns to the Emiya household after killing Shinki with Saber Alter in tow, drains Shirou and Rin and makes off with Illya) would be the perfect cutoff point for the last movie.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Rodyle posted:

She will die or turn out to be evil.

Shiki looks great, there's something off about Arihiko's proportions I can't put my finger on.

I think his legs are too long.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


alcharagia posted:

I think it is telling that of all the characters only Hisui and Kohaku have not changed in any way. This is because they were already perfect

One redesign I'm really not liking is Arcueid's .

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Butt Frosted Cake posted:

Arcueid could beat Saber Alter in a burger eating contest if she could safely reality marble the inside of her mouth/stomach.

Correcting a joke is probably too spergy even for this thread, but I'm gonna do it anyways. True Ancestors don't have Reality Marbles.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Sylphid posted:

I wouldn't be surprised if they don't have anything concrete about how they want to do HF yet. Probably will be a while before we'll hear more news about it. One movie would probably be too little, two movies too much.

And speaking of reviews, it might have been linked here or in the UBW thread, but where was that one website where the author was a total newcomer to the series and ended up liking the show a lot? I'd be interested in reading his impressions of the last few episodes, or the series as a whole now that it's finished.

I'd say two movies are not enough, three are too much. You absolutely can't fit anything more than the last two days into one movie, and the remaining fourteen days of buildup would have to be very, very compressed to fit into the other one. Covering HF in one movie seems absolutely impossible to me unless you want to get a Deen UBW trainwreck.

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


So here's a stupid newbie question: wht's the deal with the three gatchas? I know that one og them uses friend points but wht's the deal with the other two? Also, what's the best use for Quartz? Is it better used to buy inventory slots or should I wait for some event and summon with it?

Aumanor fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Oct 6, 2015

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012




So i did my first 40 Quartz draw and I'm having rather mixed feelings about it. The rider is a duplicate.

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Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Freak Futanari posted:

You got Jeanne, you're not allowed to have mixed feelings.

Unreasonable expectations, most probably, but I was hoping for the five-star Berserker. He's been carrying me as a support until Troika changed his leader :v: Other than Jeanne I only have three-star servants and I've been kind of reluctant in feeding them higher star exp cards. I still don't really have a feel for many aspects of this game. Oh well, I'll do another draw and see what to do from there.

Some newbie questions: how hosed am I for only starting this recently? And is it worth spending Quartz on more inventory slots?

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