Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Liffrea
Jun 16, 2013

Your gacha-bragging struck a nerve and accidentally set off my self-defense instincts. Sorry about that.

Kubla Khan posted:

I think his character was just what it was. Imagine a man who owned the world and grew to be the most powerful servant. It's only natural that he felt entitled to everything. E.g. Saber to him was just another thing that he had to have.

He acted casually (like, around Kirei) only when there was nothing to threaten his sense of entitlement so he could just chill and have fun. Kirei wanted nothing for himself and by extension, nothing that would belong to Gil - other than to hurt others, that is. Gil wanted the same thing - if he couldn't have everything, he'd rather let it burn. They were basically soulmates.

It's not so much that Gilgamesh wanted to destroy everything because he couldn't have it, it's that he wanted to destroy everything because he had decided the current state of humanity was ugly and weak. That's why he wanted to use the Grail to cull all but the strongest in order to "reform" humanity into a superior state, more like the way humans were when he ruled. That, and also because incarnated Gilgamesh=Gilgamesh's mind and personality automatically aligns itself to whatever the current mindset of humanity happens to be. Humans are hateful and destructive=Gil becomes hateful and destructive.

re: Gil's arrogance, like everyone else has said, it's never an act. If he's with someone he likes and respects, like Hakuno Kishinami (his master in Fate/Extra CCC) he'll relax to the point where he gets extremely chatty, starts making bad puns and jokes and tells Hakuno secrets about himself, but the arrogance is always there. Even in late game CCC, after Hakuno's proven themselves willing to die for him and Gilgamesh completely respects and accepts them to the point where he will use Ea simply if Hakuno tells him to, he's still ordering them around:

quote:

Gilgamesh: This is extremely unfortunate. Even with the appropriate garment, we cannot begin if we have no place to swim. Hakuno, do something about this.

Even if you tell me to do “something” about it…A place to swim…for that, I think there was a pool somewhere at the school, but…

Gilgamesh: You intend to tell me to tolerate a seedy water tank like that? If you wish to satisfy me…indeed, you would need to prepare an Thrilling Splash Time level facility. That would be good.

Thrilling Splash Time? What’s that? It sounds like the name of an all-weather indoor water park sort of facility.

Gilgamesh: What. Did they not have those in your era? Well, we didn’t have them in Uruk either. Thrilling Splash Time is the paradise of water I once personally planned out. It is the height of aquatic above water architecture.

The king’s red eyes shine as he speaks. After that, over a period of tens of minutes I heard in great detail what an amazing place Thrilling Splash Time was…

(Thrilling Splash Time is kid Gil's water park in Hollow Ataraxia)

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Liffrea
Jun 16, 2013

Your gacha-bragging struck a nerve and accidentally set off my self-defense instincts. Sorry about that.

Endorph posted:

kotomine and gilgamesh totally spent half that show getting drunk and loving

edit: also the entire timespan between f/z and f/sn, they spent that time getting drunk and loving

god I hope not, because Gil used his youth potion to turn into Ko-Gil between f/z and f/sn, because he said wouldn't be able to stand the world otherwise.

Liffrea
Jun 16, 2013

Your gacha-bragging struck a nerve and accidentally set off my self-defense instincts. Sorry about that.

Endorph posted:

no thats basically the exchange, Saber asks how he survived the mud and Gilgamesh goes "All the evils of this world? Bring at least three times that if you wish to stain me!' and after the fight Saber mentions that Gilgamesh seems a bit different from how she remembers him (IE: the mud did affect him)

Nasu explicitly said in an interview that it's impossible to corrupt Gil because of his massive ego and the reason behind his increase in jerkass between Zero and Stay Night was because Gil's human side gets influenced by the state of humanity at the time. Humanity apparently sucked so much, it turned him into (more of) a raging shithead. Him despising what human society had become didn't help. It's part of the reason he took the youth potion and turned back into Ko-Gil for the ten years between the wars, because he wouldn't have been able to stand it otherwise.

(of course the retcon real reason is that zero and stay night aren't in the same universe, but...)

Though, I still haven't been able to figure out how "Gilgamesh can't be corrupted because his ego is too drat stronk" squares with "he's completely unable to avoid being influenced by the state of humanity" but :shrug:

Liffrea
Jun 16, 2013

Your gacha-bragging struck a nerve and accidentally set off my self-defense instincts. Sorry about that.

Manaka Sajyou from Fate/Prototype/Prototype: Fragments of Blue & Silver is also a strong contender for "evillest Fate character".

Among all the other heinous poo poo she pulled, deciding to feed your 8 year sister to the world-destroying Beast you're trying to birth and personally dragging her to its mouth to throw her inside while she's screaming and struggling and begging you to stop because she talked once to the guy you're obsessively in love with is pretty much at the top of the "evil" scale.

She's vile.

Cuntellectual posted:

Basically:

He almost won the Moon grail war, but couldn't actually use the grail because he was an NPC based off of a dead person, and not actually that peson. So he set up shop outside the grail room's door with his servant, the absurdly overpowered Savior, and asked everyone who got to him "Hey can you wish on the grail to make the grail war permanent?" because in Twice's mind, war brings out the best in people.

Yeah, but Twice also got the "I agree with you but I'm still going to fight you because we don't have the right to decide things for the people of now because we're dead" thing from Hakuno in Extra and also basically saves Hakuno's rear end via pep talk towards the end of CCC. He's bad, but it's also pretty clear that he's supposed to be seen as wrong but not evil-evil.

Last Encore Twice seems to be a different story though.

Liffrea
Jun 16, 2013

Your gacha-bragging struck a nerve and accidentally set off my self-defense instincts. Sorry about that.

Thuryl posted:

Plus it's not exactly something Nasu pulled out of nowhere, since her myth revolves around a marriage that she proposed and that failed catastrophically. A lot of the Servants in F/SN basically want a do-over on the ways in which their original lives went to poo poo, so her motivation fits in with that.

A lot of the Caster class Servants have a thing where they either get deeply attached to their Masters or they betray their Masters, or, occasionally, both.

Medea manages to do both, obs.

Tamamo wants to be a wife too, and gets super attached to Hakuno in the Extraverse.

Gilles and Ryuunosuke.

Nursery Rhyme and Alice.

CCC spoilers: Hans both hates and is attracted to Kiara, and semi-betrays her.

Prototype/Fragments spoilers: Paracelsus befriends and then betrays Misaya and her father, and is still grieving about it in FGO

Apo spoilers: Avicebron betrays his Master and also reveals in FGO that he feels hugely guilty about it. I'm not as clear about Shakespeare's deal, but wasn't there something about how he was basically in it for the ~drama~ and wouldn't hesitate to screw his Master over if it made for a better story?

FGO Lostbelt 01 spoilers: Anastasia and Kadoc are very attached to each other, to the point where Ana takes a bullet for him and dies.

Liffrea
Jun 16, 2013

Your gacha-bragging struck a nerve and accidentally set off my self-defense instincts. Sorry about that.

Cuntellectual posted:

It occurs to me that Rin in Extra is Rin from FSN's niece, making her Sakura's daughter, but she still looks exactly like Rin. :psyduck:

That's because Extra Rin isn't Sakura's daughter. Extraverse Tokomi either cheated on Aoi with another woman/had an affair before marrying Aoi, I can't remember which, and that woman's daughter with Tokomi has a daughter herself, who is Extra Rin.

So she's still Rin's niece, but not via Sakura.

Liffrea
Jun 16, 2013

Your gacha-bragging struck a nerve and accidentally set off my self-defense instincts. Sorry about that.

Blaze Dragon posted:

I'm not sure about that. The maids do not look similar to Irisviel. And even if they are, Illya is a completely unique existence as a half-human hybrid.

IIRC Nasu explained it as Saber didn't realize they were the same person because she pretty naturally expected Ilya to be an adult instead of still looking like a young girl due to the time that had passed between Zero and FSN.

Liffrea
Jun 16, 2013

Your gacha-bragging struck a nerve and accidentally set off my self-defense instincts. Sorry about that.

MonsieurChoc posted:

I would too.

Give us Percival dammit. All we know so far is that he was a better cook than Gawain, and that's not hard!

He shows up very briefly at the end of Arthur's side story in Proto Fragments Drama CD 4.

quote:

Percival: “Welcome back, Arthur! Red Dragon! Wow you look like poo poo…...what the hell is with all that blood on ya!?”

Saber: “I’m hurt too, y’know.”

Percival: “Aren’t ya just a little bit hurt? Guess it can’t be helped. I’ll give you an ointment, here.”

Saber: “Thanks.”

Percival: “But, well, you surprised me this time. It was originally supposed to be an unbeatable creature. After all, it was a…. Well, never mind, not like I know. Even Palamedes would have a hassle hunting that beast down.”

Saber: “We couldn’t leave it alone. It hurt innocent civilians.”

Percival: “That might be true, but…….”

Saber: “Nothing more, nothing less.”

Percival: “I see. ―――So, how’s things going between you and Morgan lately? Have you seen her recently?”

Saber: “……Why are you talking about my older sister?”

Percival: “Ahahahaha.”

Saber: “?”

Percival: “Wait, you’re seriously asking me that?”

(context: Arthur has just returned from killing the Questing Beast, which is a beast born from a princess who was incestuously in love with her older brother. Her brother naturally rejected her and in revenge, the princess slept with a demon who promised to kill her brother for her. The princess lied and said her brother raped her, so their father sentenced the brother to be executed by being ripped apart by a pack of hunting dogs. Before his death, the brother cursed her to give birth to a monster that howls like a pack of hunting dogs. Given that, Percy joking about Morgan here is a little...uhhh...)

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Liffrea
Jun 16, 2013

Your gacha-bragging struck a nerve and accidentally set off my self-defense instincts. Sorry about that.

Logical1234 posted:

Let's be honest, Arthurian Legend + Anime was always gonna lead to a sis-con Arthur jokes, or a bro-con yandere Morgan.

They wouldnt be able to resist it, mostly because Morgan in actual legends alternate between trying to kill her brother, or seemingly regreting killing her brother in some interpretations. And let's not forget acutally loving her brother on his wedding night. Shr was already a yandere.

The joke was always gonna be made. Mostly because it wasn't a joke in the end.

We should be more worried if Morgan becomes summonable in FGO. Once that happens the doujins shall turn the joke into a reality.


And thus the Saberface hell shall gain a new circle of horror.

Still, it's a pretty jerkass thing to joke to your sovereign, who's just returned from getting the poo poo beaten out of him by a demonic monster born from an vindictive incestuous princess who had the brother who rejected her executed in a particularly gruesome and horrible way, if he's heard lately from his older sister "because lol you know your sister wants to gently caress you AND gently caress you over, just like the princess who gave birth to that monster, right? Right? Right?" especially since Arthur himself seems clueless about the matter.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply