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Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


A question about the UBW route:

How could Archer kill Caster who was technically his Master at that time? Isn't it confirmed in Caster's flashback that the only way a Servant can try to kill their Master is if they run out of Command Spells? Am I missing something?

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Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


Lt. Lizard posted:

I think you are mixing that up. Command Seals are a sing of you being chosen by the Grail, not a cause. Once chosen, you are eligible for the Holy Grail, regardless of the number of Command Seals you posses or if you have a Servant. For an example, supervisors of the Grail War, like Risei, have multiple extra Command Seals for "safekeeping" even before the War begins, but they don't summon Servants and are not recognized as Master.

As was stated above by other posters, the whole thing with needing Command Seals to win is because you need all 7 Servants to create a complete Grail capable of reaching the Origin. So the victorious Master needs at least 1 Command Seal to order his/her Servant to kill itself, or the Grail wont be able to perform its intended function.

During the HF route, Tohsaka tells Shirou:

"What are you saying? Even if you've lost your Command Spell and your Servant, you're still Saber's former Master. You were somehow chosen by the Holy Grail, so you have the right to obtain the Holy Grail until the very end. You're still my rival even though you're powerless."

So either it's either that she's clueless (which seems unlikely, given how narrative's been structured so far) or that you don't need Command Seals to claim the Grail.

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


I'm not a huge fan of stuff like "A+ class magic", "I can recover 6 mana points a day!", "Gilgamesh is using his class ability" etc, it just feels awkward outside of a video game. I can overlook it but I'd still prefer if magic were more mystical and strange. I liked the idea of 'sorcery' vs. regular magic.

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


Eej posted:

That's kind of the point though? Magecraft is basically a science at this point so effects can be classified and categorized. Magic, on the other hand, is basically godlike power that fits the bill of of what you're looking for.

I can bear with the idea of magic being used for mundane stuff like repairing broken furniture, scrying et cetera. "This took me a bit of effort so I could abstract it as... 2 points?" is borderline acceptable.

The idea of a Servant (a being with godlike power) stating she has 1000 mana points left and she uses 6 per day, or it being noted as "he can stick around because of his class ability!" doesn't sit well with me, though. It could have been handled better, I think.

Kubla Khan fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Oct 16, 2014

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


Argona posted:

So apparantly at some point, a fan translaton of Hollow Ataraxia came out. Is it a) worth reading through, and b) does it have ~super sexy nasu porn~ in it. If there is porn, is there a no-porn patch, like there is for fs/n?

Haven't gotten far enough to read it but apparently there's only one porn bit in the main story, the main Nasu porn cache is on the extra discs.

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


Man, I so wish there were more VNs for Android (beyond the VNDS stock). Sitting in a bed with a tablet and a cup of tea is the perfect way to play these things.

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


Not reading spoilers for HF and F:HA so I'll just leave this here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsWMjLWP5eE

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


*wrong thread*

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


What are people's opinions on Fate/Extra and Battle Moon Wars?

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


To me Gil is by far the most unlikeable character in FSN/FZ. A narcissistic kid, much like Shinji (in fact, Shinji's mirror image), except far more dangerous.

They both die pathetic deaths in almost every route, so there's that at least.

Kubla Khan fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Nov 3, 2014

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


Nate RFB posted:

I think more than a lot of other characters the comedic stuff has generally always treated Gil very well, whether it's hollow ataraxia or Carnival Phantasm. Like the wacky races episode where he turns out to be motorcycle geek. "I am the rules!" :smug:

Yeah, I've only just finished F/SN and can't wait to check these out. :dance:

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


Finished Pt. 5 of Kara no Kyokai and wow, just wow. 10/10

The way various symbols were weaved into the story was simply perfect. Thinking about the whole thing, the way characters acted and how the visual/story puzzle pieces fit together actually made the whole thing so emotionally rewarding as if the viewer's introspective process was intended from the start. Not sure if the remaining 2 episodes can live up to my glowing adoration and I'm actually a bit scared to find out.

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


jellycat posted:

I've been playing through Fate/stay night and I just started Heaven's Feel. I guess it says something that long after seeing people hype up Emiya, I instantly knew what track it was when it started playing. Unlimited Blade Works was great and I really love Tohsaka.

I'm a little disappointed that I couldn't seem to find any active torrents for Hollow Ataraxia, though. I don't know when I'm going to be able to spare the money for it, but I'm definitely planning on buying copies of that and FSN.

You should try a certain website with a pirate ship.

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


HellCopter posted:

I have no knowledge of Kara no Kyoukai other than that the main character wears a cool jacket and is also named Shiki for some reason. I decided to take a look at the first movie, and - am I supposed to have even the faintest clue who anybody is or what's going on? Because 20 minutes in and I really, really don't. Was I supposed to read something beforehand or start at movie 4 or some other weird condition?

I think it's best to watch the first five movies slowly, giving yourself time to really think about the characters and the things that happened, even re-watching stuff if you feel like it. Almost everything that may appear pointless at first is there for a reason.

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


Archer doesn't know for sure what killing Shirou would accomplish - it's just him gambling on the chance that wiping out Shirou in the same timeline would wipe out the idea of Archer's existence as well. We don't know if there's such a possibility in the first place, or whether Archer's just delusional. He simply hates Shirou (and his own self, by extension) too much to care.

Raenir Salazar posted:

I'm a little confused on the "the Matou's are no longer Mages" thing when Zouken is supposedly still kicking around and Sakura should have those worm things as circuits or whatever ja?

To add to what has already been said, Zouken has been around since the First Grail War. What that quote meant was that the bloodline grew weaker (and eventually lost all its power) with each passing generation, not that there aren't any existing Matou mages alive.

Kubla Khan fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Nov 15, 2014

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


Raenir Salazar posted:

To what extent is Gilgamesh's arrogance an act? Whenever he's got his hair down he seems to act more casually, not withstanding Kid!Gil who acts fairly down to earth as well.

I think his character was just what it was. Imagine a man who owned the world and grew to be the most powerful servant. It's only natural that he felt entitled to everything. E.g. Saber to him was just another thing that he had to have.

He acted casually (like, around Kirei) only when there was nothing to threaten his sense of entitlement so he could just chill and have fun. Kirei wanted nothing for himself and by extension, nothing that would belong to Gil - other than to hurt others, that is. Gil wanted the same thing - if he couldn't have everything, he'd rather let it burn. They were basically soulmates.

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


Never leave Shirou and Rider alone, Sakura... all these F/HA moments were hilarious.

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


Agreed, the shadow and Dark Sakura are the biggest reveals of HF. Just like 'Shirou is the red man' from UBW.

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


I wonder why so many Japanese anime and games have such negative views about organized religion. When was the last time there was a priest who didn't turn out to be a crazed fanatic / pervert / villain of some kind? Is this a cultural thing? I get it that Christians et al are a vast minority there, but still.

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


T.G. Xarbala posted:

And honestly you'll also get a lot of negative views about organized religion outside of Japan, too. It's common to a lot of increasingly secular cultures and Japan has been pretty secular since their modernization.

I know, though it's not nearly as prevalent in Western culture. Not counting the obvious 'Christian movie' drek we still get the 'religious person going through a crisis of faith' type just as often as we get the straightforward villainous type, and sometimes even as the good guy (rarely, but still). I can't think of a single time in anime/game a person of faith didn't out turn to be of the very bad (either corrupt of overly zealous) kind.

We also have this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican%27s_list_of_films (esp. under the heading of 'Religion')
Most of which are actually very good movies.

icantfindaname posted:

Asia has a long history of extremist minority religious groups. You can see it Japan with stuff like Aum Shinryuko, but also historically with poo poo like the Taiping Rebellion in China where a dude declared he was Jesus' brother and got enough followers to launch a massive civil war. Christianity acts as one of those cults; for example most Christians in Korea are of an extremely zealous, true believer bent

Asia and Confucian-influenced societies seem to have this weird dichotomy where public life in general is aggressively secular and non-religious, but people are extremely superstitous in specific ways. I think religion gets suppressed so it builds up and explodes in bursts

I see, interesting stuff. The love for superstitious stuff may also go some way to explaining why so many anime/games feature Tarot, the Zodiac etc. (though, just like Christianity, 'featured' in only the most superficial ways).

Kubla Khan fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Dec 6, 2014

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014



Interesting, in what way?

quote:

Dragon Quest also consistently features Actually Heroic churches, and that's a huge title.

I meant more as an actual 'person of faith' character with relevance to the story. Non-evil churches and token NPCs (as places to heal and do quests) are a thing in a lot of JRPGs. Again, I'm only speaking from my (very limited) experience, so it's entirely possible I've missed out on many titles with personalities that leave the exact opposite impression.

Pureauthor posted:

Billy from Xenogears was a decent religious dude who ran an orphanage.

And then life took a massive liquid poo poo on him and everyone else he knew from his religion either got killed horribly or turned out to be evil.

Yeah, this seems to be the more benevolent extreme. Can also think of FFT where some of the minor church pawns were the good guys (and then the awful thing happened).

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


BlitzBlast posted:

Well I mean the church faction in Nanoha and all associated characters are Good People consistently doing Good Things because their patron saint was also a Good Person who did Good Things. Meanwhile even the military the main characters work for has its darker sides.

Not really sure what else you'd want.

I haven't seen Nanoha and reading the wiki summary didn't really help, so I asked to elaborate. The Saint Church does seem like a good subversion of this stereotype.


jellycat posted:

Organized religion is "supposed" to be "good" (quotes because that's obviously a huge simplification), so it's very easy to establish it as such in fiction. Which then makes it a very cheap source of betrayal and drama.
Basically, evil church officials are easy to make interesting (even if they're predictable), much more so than good ones.

EDIT:
Also, are we talking like pastors and popes, or are we talking about characters who are religious in general? There are definitely religious characters who are supposed to be sympathetic.

Yeah, more in the vein of people involved in organized religion.

I do really like the point you make about how easy it is to subvert something stereotyped as good and proper. Funny how it's been done so many times already that it's become a trope of its own.

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


Nate RFB posted:

Losing Saber to Rule Breaker wouldn't be too bad either (so basically ending on the rooftop scene).

That's the pivotal moment in the VN as well, I think. You aren't really sure if Archer's just faking his new loyalties until the "I hate Shirou!" diatribes much later. Saber going down to Caster, though - that was the real "yeah, they're in real trouble now" moment for me.

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Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


AlternateNu posted:

I never read the VN, but I did know about Kuzuki's crazy rear end combat ability going into this fight. I'm just wondering what was up with that vacuum punch he threw out before strangling the poo poo out of Saber. Was that specifically mentioned? Even Kirei couldn't pull that poo poo off unless we're just hand waving it as Attack Buff: Caster's Purple Magic Fists of Fisting.

This whole thing looked pretty bs in the VN, to me at least. Looked more like Nasu/whoever just wanted to insert a badass martial arts guy so it happened.

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