Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Rangpur posted:

Fate/Apocrypha: I like the look of Mighty Morphin' Power Mordred. I also hope she can contract with another master after that grizzled biker gang mage eats it, because there's no way in hell that guy is the main character of a Fate show.

:allears:

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Shiki's this loner guy who at a glance seems really chill, but really he's just a selfish jerk who wants to go through life's motions without having to deal with anyone - which is good, because he's just comically awful at actually dealing with people when he tries.

He really is the anti-Shirou.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Tae posted:

How is UBW too short? Did you accidentally watch the movie?

Yeah, poo poo, it's 26 episodes and all the extra scenes in the bluray release bumps that runtime to 30. How is that too short?

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


poe meater posted:

Sorry I meant there seems to be more stories to explore I guess. Fate zero felt more complete to me. I didnt play the games/novels though so I'm not sure.

Oh, definitely. Rider, the Matous, Illya, Kotomine... all their stories get developed much further in Heaven's Feel (first of the film trilogy coming soon!). No joke: Sakura is a love interest and plays a strong role in Heaven's Feel, representing Shirou's precious mundane everyday life that he just takes for granted in other scenarios, but people unironically call it the Illya and Kotomine route.

Saber gets fleshed out much more in the Fate route, where she's the focus character and love interest, but... I won't recommend Studio DEEN's adaptation. She's more interesting in UBW anyway, remaining a gallant knight who solves her personal issues by way of witnessing Shirou struggle with his (in Fate it's kind of the opposite).

As to why she's not angry at the Emiya's, well, in the first place she wasn't angry at Kiritsugu for his betrayal. She blamed herself. The conclusion of the 4th War just deepened her guilt and determination to obtain the Grail. Upon learning that Shirou was Kiritsugu's son, and how different his description seemed to be from the man she remembered, she decided to keep quiet for his sake. If Shirou didn't know, then he didn't need to know his dad he admired so much was a ruthless killer.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Nate RFB posted:

The LP was a fun community experience (still the only LP I've ever followed/participated in all the way through), but other than just being an obviously easier/cheaper way to experience the VN it's not what I'd call a substitute to just sitting down and reading the actual thing yourself. Reading the LP means you're not reeeeeally getting the full experience when it comes to effects/BGM/voices, unless you're actually clicking on each music each time and the occasional video, assuming any of those still work. seorin's commentary and interjections also leave a little something to be desired IMO.

It was fun but the constant goon virtue signaling about how wrong anime is even as they partake in anime, while amusing, is just plain distracting if you actually want to get engrossed in or discuss the work. Definitely not something I'd recommend to first timers even assuming the actual VN wasn't translated, which it is.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Pierson posted:

It's been a long while since I checked but wasn't UBW vs GOB described as a literal rain of blades against each other that continuously fall even when they're in melee, rather than the way they've always animated it which is like a dozen vs a dozen? I don't think there'd be enough budget in the world.

UBW vs GoB was for the most part Shirou using whatever Gil pulled out as a Broken Phantasm, forcing Gil to desperately destroy his own treasures in order to counter the attacks. It wasn't a contest of swordsmanship or tactics in any way or form - since Shirou had the replicas primed before the originals were even fully emerged from the Gate of Babylon, Gilgamesh was perfectly countered.

Shirou was of course against the clock in regards to how long his body or mana would hold out, but it was Gilgamesh who was cornered and struggling to stay alive the entire way through.

While a fitting inversion of roles for how Gil normally does battle, probably wouldn't have been that good as the climatic final battle in the adaptation.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


No, it was literally Shirou swinging identical copies of Gilgamesh's swords as Broken Phantasms.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Nate RFB posted:

The VN makes no mention of Shirou using Broken Phantasms, though. I had always thought that the only time one got used was when Archer launched one at Herc.

The term "Broken Phantasm" merely refers to self-destructing an NP for a power boost at the expense of the weapon. It's used when :words: how Archer used Caladbolg vs Berserker and, although not called by name in the middle of a heated action scene, Gil and Shirou both employ the technique during their fight inside UBW in the VN.

Elaborating: the reason Caladbolg shots are flashy is that, specifically, the technique Archer uses with it is to reinforce and overload it, primed so it activates its miracle and self-destructs at the same time like a missile. Gilgamesh and Shirou skip the calling True Names part (no time!) and just overload them for the attack Rank Up so they can counter each other's strikes. Or rather, Shirou is doing it, so Gilgamesh has no choice but to match it else he'll be struck down.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Endorph posted:

anyway i guess my point is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD3396VxaEY#t=78s

this tiny bit with saber and herc testing each other in the deen 2010 op is way cooler than anything ufotable's ever done

That runs completely against how Berserker is ever described :shepface:

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Endorph posted:

i didnt say its an accurate depiction of berserker just that its kind of a cool bit that is more memorable to me than berserker break dancing in a graveyard. and i dont think ufotable is incapable of good fights. i like the berserker vs gil fight in ubw tv.

edit: also the deen/stay night anime, regardless of what you think of it, introduced a ton of recurring things that are still being referenced today. like half of archer's fighting style, some elements of arturia's backstory and the visuals of that general part of the setting, tons of things in terms of repeated abilities, like Gate of Babylon or Excalibur - the way those scenes are cut and paced is referenced heavily in just about everything Fate from that point onwards, from games to later adaptations. A lot of that is basic surface level stuff but it still did a lot to flesh out a visual novel with a pretty barebones presentation.

Sorry to pop your bubble but the only things the DEEN adaptation wholesale introduced that carried over to the rest of the franchise were Overedge and the voice actors. Everything else you're listing is lifted straight up from the VN, reference materials, Nasu as creative consultant, Realta Nua which was already in the works, or just being made up in your brain.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Well once you become a god with nothing to do

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


cheetah7071 posted:

I used to be sorta torn over whether Nasu set out to make Rin bi or just sort of fell into the trap a lot of male authors fall into where, when describing things, they describe wthe parts that they, as straight men, are about, which is how hot Mitsuzuri or Saber are

I think by Extra I was convinced Nasu was doing it intentionally

Oh yeah, no, no, no.

When you get POVs from female characters in his works, FSN or otherwise, they sometimes make appraisals of beauty when describing other females. It's just at-a-glance qualitative assessment.

But Rin? She really has to break down why any particular girl is eye candy. And it's not like when he uses narrator voice with metaphors either; she's laser focused.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Plus she can't go bloodsucking on dudes, that'd be like cheating on Shiki.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Pureauthor posted:

I'm pretty sure the only thing Gil ever felt towards Tokiomi is thinly-veiled contempt and disgust. And he drops it quickly. The 'veiled' part, that is.

He was upset over a few things but overall just found him exceedingly boring, which is why he hung out with Kotomine.

Until the latter told him the truth about the Grail, that is.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Bloody Pom posted:

Couldn't wait for the Heaven's Feel OVA, so I started on the F/SN VNs last night. Send help.

You're probably doing it anyway, but be sure to be using the 2012 PC version for all those cool things like animation effects and extra scenes.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Bloody Pom posted:

Well poo poo, I haven't been paying attention. Makes sense, isn't HF the longest route, or at least the most plot-heavy?

It's as many films as it'd take to adapt any of the routes, really - consider how UBW was close to 30 episodes runtime. Even if you skimmed the prologue and trimmed the exposition and slice-of-life parts, you'd want 300+ mins to do the route any justice.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


That's funny because Diomedes would beat them both.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


DamnGlitch posted:

Wasn't one of the big things in fate and a lesser extent UBW (in the VN) that he was constructing his magic circuits from scratch each time which was incredibly dangerous and idiotic and one of the many things Rin later berated him for?

Honest question, because I remember that being a big deal at one point and it didn't get brought up in the anime at all.

Shirou had a fundamental misunderstanding of how magic circuits worked, believing he had to assemble a magic circuit from scratch each time he wanted to practice magecraft. This made his daily training regime incredibly painful, dangerous, and inefficient. Rin does berate him for this, explaining magic circuits are something that's already there, so once you've identified and activated them the first time, you should be able to just turn them on and off like a switch whenever you wish.

In UBW he doesn't get to practice magecraft with Rin, instead, it is Archer who identifies what's wrong with his method and corrects him after Rin asks him to check him out (when Shirou loses sensation and fine motor control of his left side following the first time he projects K&B).

Note that he wasn't actually creating magic circuits during his training: the number and quality of magic circuits is something normally fixed at birth. What he was actually doing through his assbackwards training was causing his magic circuits to gradually fuse with his real nerves.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Nah, Shirou's aptitude for magecraft is impressive in the context of an individual not coming from an established family, but overall he's very mediocre as far as magi go.

What makes him exceptional is his unique talent for projection, product of the alignments of his non-standard elemental affinity and origin: if the Association got wind that he's able to create a reality marble, he'd immediately receive a sealing designation.

His whole point, as is Archer's, is that he's badass through discipline and determination rather than overall innate talent.

Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Aug 1, 2017

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


AtheistMantis posted:

Then does this mean the Heaven's Feel ritual was always doomed to fail?

No, the Heaven's Feel ritual was devised explicitly to get around the counter force. And during the HF route it, in fact, succeeds.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Kyte posted:

Magi are NERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDS and would be appalled at using their arts for something as base as combat, so yeah.

Magi are perfectly fine with using magic for combat. It is, after all, a demonstration not only of personal skill and talent but of the accumulated prowess of their lineage. And nerds sure love showing off to other nerds.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Kyte posted:

Probably, yes. But not for the reasons you'd think of. While he cares very much about Sakura, it's still in that hosed up magus way where happiness runs secondary to one's development as a magus. He'd be pissed at Zouken for squandering her potential.

FWIW, he probably was raised the same way. It's a bit of A Thing.

This is correct. Sakura was given to the Matous largely because it meant she'd become their successor, and would even get a shot at the grail herself if Tokiomi failed.

But as it turned out, all Zouken wanted her for was to produce a suitable successor. Sakura herself was just a piece of meat. Despite all the torture she wasn't actually trained properly as she was just meant to play the part of useful assistant/tool to Zouken, who on top of that spent the better part of a decade trying to break her mind so she'd be even more subservient to his wishes.

For Tokiomi as a magus, this would've been no different than if he had married her off to some other magus family or just had her live out a normal life, which is exactly what he had been trying to avoid in the first place.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


There's also the fact that how fundamentally broken Shirou is only truly manifests in extreme situations. Taiga spends the longest time with him and just thinks him normal, while his classmates think he's a little odd because he's very serious guy in the "is always busy and doesn't know how to have fun" kind of way, but people like that exist and he's well liked besides because he's responsible and always up for helping others. Only Sakura has a decent read on his character, but she's broken herself and admires him for the kind of person he is.

To Kiritsugu, it would've all seemed childish hero worship, and it didn't really become an obsession to Shirou until after his death.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Considering who he is, Karna's design is perfect.

It actually makes me mad how cheap they're being with the anime.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Apocrypha has been particularly cheap by A1 standards.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015



:fap:


use proxies

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMr5pXzpvP0

Official english of the latest pv.

Japanese release on Friday, US release in 40 days (or Nov 3 premiere in LA).

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Wuxi posted:

So F/S Saber is the only "real" hero/legend, since she didn't actually die yet?

Scathach in FGO

Also, Saber is taken from the last moments of her life, so it doesn't make much of a difference in this context.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


No idea how explicitly it'll be depicted, but I imagine to about the same degree as it was in the Kara no Kyoukai films - they chose to do this story in film format for a reason.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


I watched Robocop when I was 7 and it was loving metal.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Girls are actually more or less done growing at 15; Saber's just short.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


ACES CURE PLANES posted:

I mean, everyone in Fate materials always goes on and on about how Medusa is a giantess who is unreasonably tall, but she only barely scrapes past five and a half feet.

Japan's height and weight complex is weird.

Hey, 5'8 is pretty darned tall for a girl in Japan, and she's not described as 'unreasonably tall', just that she stands out because of it. On the other hand, she's understandably very self-conscious about heir height because her sisters used to bully her about it - you know, that whole deal with her growing up while they stayed timeless and identical little girls.

BTW, a look at Tinder will show you that concern with height isn't exactly endemic to the other side of the Pacific.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Let's not forget the last two days take up about a third of the story. Plus the epilogue.

I had already guessed a year ago Part 1 would end where it did, but I wonder whether Part 2 will end at Day 12 when Sakura is revealed as the Shadow after being confronted by Gil, or Day 14 with Shirou collapsing after she's gone bonkers and kidnapped Illya. I'm leaning towards the latter since it makes more sense in terms of the story beats.

But yeah, basically all the good poo poo happens in the next two films - this was just the prologue.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


My group of friends calls it Fate Hypocrita.

We basically only watch it for Astolfo.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Kyte posted:

Nobody said a peep when aryan ideal Gilgamesh performed heart surgery on albino child for the sake of purging the world of the weak and unfit.

Illya's actually 20+ years old so she's a dwarf rather than a child. An albino dwarf.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Didn't Nasu at one point, while going over F/Z drafts, ask him if his blood was red?

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


It's a light novel adaptation.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


They could've turned his Master into an adult, I guess...? Dial down the 'betrayed by your mentor' aspect a bit for the sake of avoiding the UNCOMFORTABLE IMPLICATIONS of using a HUMAN SACRIFICE to power JEWISH MAGIC.

This is such a non-thing.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Type-Moon Megathread: The Worst Writing and Most Heinous Misogyny and Also Anti-Semitism

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Shirou is misogynistic in the same way a little boy is who gets the snot beaten out of him by a girl in the playground because his dad told him he should never hit girls.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply