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I want animated Sparks Liner High as a bonus feature in the Heavens Feel pt3 bluray.
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Dec 15, 2017 23:05
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Terrible Opinions posted:Yeah I've only seen the anime and done a goodly portion of the fate route. He is by no means the most unpleasant light novel protagonist, but he is among the most boring. Shirou is incredibly interesting from a literary standpoint, because a competent and engaging story of FSN's breadth that is for the most part a character study of an static protagonist is like, goddamn. Normal, bland, is protagonists getting character development and a little growth through their story arc. They learn a lesson about life, or friendship, and become the hero that saves the day, yay. Shirou does not work like that. Shirou's entire story arc throughout Fate and UBW is, in the face of self-discovery, to double and triple down on remaining his own broken self - and doing so with downright heroic determination. Do we forget how much of a badass he is? He gets his little get out of jail card in Avalon, but even then all that keeps him alive and conscious as we're described in excruciating detail how his bones and organs knit themselves back together, or how he fries his nerves performing magecraft, is sheer willpower. And then we get Heaven's Feel. Fate and UBW endeavor to tell us how Shirou's housewife shenanigans and childish aspirations are just an endearing wrapping around a person that's broken inside, but then along comes HF and sheds light on there being more nuance to that, because of course there's more to it. How Shirou is indeed messed up, but his harem romcom protagonist daily life is as important a part of him as everything else - you could argue eventually leaving that behind is what truly sets him down the path of becoming Archer. And Nasu decides "hey, let's threaten that directly!" and the whole house of cards comes crashing down. For the first time Shirou changes, acknowledges something about himself and makes a small change, a priority shift, but continuing on the path he set out for himself on his father's deathbed is such a fundamental part of his identity that the decision quite literally destroys him. But boy, does he go out with a bang. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Dec 16, 2017 |
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Dec 16, 2017 09:25
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:they're absolutely not treated like 17-year-olds by the story, they basically act like 20something adults outside of the fact that they occasionally go to high school Rin and Shirou have very particular circumstances. Rin more or less raised herself, and her going to school at all is outright depicted as a childish whim (and excuse to see Sakura). She had to grow up fast and learn how to take care of herself, that's a given with her. Shirou is sort of on a similar boat, since Kiritsugu tended to leave for long periods of time while the two still lived together, but he actually does get treated like a teen. His guardian isn't Taiga, it's Taiga's grandfather, and his living situation makes a lot of sense - they're satisfying his stubborn desire to be independent by letting him live on his own at Kiritsugu's place, BUT, the Fujimuras manage his estate and finances, and have Taiga watching over him (so he doesn't do anything stupid) much more closely than most families watch their own children. Consider: - She's a teacher at his school, so if anything happened there she'd know. - She spends time with him every morning for breakfast, and every evening for dinner, corresponding to when he's home. - Up until recently she was even directly in charge of his afterschool activities, too. - His part-time job, which he wants for spending money, is working for a friend of hers. Taiga's played for laughs as the irresponsible twenty-something compared to Shirou's straight-man act, but she's doing her job watching over him superbly. In fact, besides Shinji, Shirou's entire social circle is composed of people who look after him because despite how diligent and responsible he is, they all feel there's something off about him that concerns them. And he honestly needs that. In regards to the highschool element, it's actually the other way around, in that it appears because it's important to the characters and vanishes only because circumstances force it to. Rin keeps going because she'll be damned if she lets a little thing such as the Holy Grail War interfere with her daily life, and then she finds out there's a Master there so she has to take care of that, while Shirou is just an idiot and doesn't consider that maybe school should take a backseat to this life changing event going on around him. Once he forms an alliance with Rin this issue gets resolved, since it's convenient for both of them to remain close, and for the first part of the story they still are on watch for Shinji and in UBW's case Kuzuki. It's only once the above is addressed, and the war has intensified to the point they no longer feel it prudent to keep attending, that they abandon school and Rin goes ahead and moves in with Shirou instead.
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Dec 16, 2017 23:09
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Shneak posted:Holy poo poo I saw Heaven's Feel today and I have no idea where it's heading. I watched F/Z and F/SN but I haven't played the visual novel. Real Assassin appearing got an audible My favorite fight in the series happens during a Bad End and therefore sadly won't be animated. The next best three will all happen during part 3 
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Jan 16, 2018 23:30
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out of me and I lost the thread. But Lancer vs Assassin might be my favourite of the series and it was cool to see servant's resistances/abilities actually come into play this time.
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Watched Heaven's Feel. Expected it to be good, found it to be amazing. Beautiful of course, and very well paced. Utterly blindsided by the cuteness of younger Sakura, whose appearance gives a hell of a lot more context to why Shirou is troubled seeing her as anything but a little sister.
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Jan 21, 2018 08:44
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Raenir Salazar posted:My sister sadly didn't like it very much, I thought she might like parts of it because she loves Gargoyles and Justice League (dressed as Wonder Woman for Halloween) but sadly not really. She found it too gory. When Shirou's intestines flew out, the person next to me did that uncomfortable, drawn-out "ugh... unngh..." sound someone makes when they watch the Mr. Hands video for the first time. I grinned because this is why it had to be a film.
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Jan 21, 2018 20:16
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It's a bad part of town. Also Shiki has a habit of walking around bad parts of town at night.
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Jan 29, 2018 22:05
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I want my Tsukihime remake with Mahoyo production values.
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Jan 30, 2018 16:38
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Endorph posted:no thats literally not the story heaven's feel is telling lol Yeah there's some fundamental misunderstanding going on here, because unlike Fate and Unlimited Blade Works, where Shirou's thought process is: "I must do this even if it kills me (because my life is worthless/my ideal is more valuable)." In Heaven's Feel, Shirou's driving force is his desire to be with the people he cares about. Giving up his life for them is incidental and really more of a compromise position, where he's taking the options available to him and pushing dealing with the consequences for later. This is best exemplified by how all throughout Fate/UBW, whenever he's going to pull one of his insane stunts, alarms blare in his head "you'll die if you do this, idiot!" that he has to fight to overcome, but towards the second half of Heaven's Feel that so-far consistent aspect of his character is just gone. It's horrifying, but it's a sign he's acting in complete unity of goal/desire/instincts, and doing the so very human act of "I just don't have time to worry about that bullshit" which his subconscious is for once 100% on board with. Hell, during his last moments, he's not apologizing to Sakura because he'll die and leave her alone; as he heads towards certain death, he's still thinking about fulfilling their promise to watch the cherry blossoms together.
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Jan 30, 2018 22:49
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Aumanor posted:This is... objectively not true. Heck, he still gets a scene like that in Nine Bullet Revolver. And if they're gone after that it's because he knows that once he's released the shroud he's a dead man walking. He's explicitly not afraid of dying, he's afraid of losing his mind from the pain and forgetting about them (betraying them).
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Jan 30, 2018 23:20
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Webcormac McCarthy posted:Decided to wait, only know fate and ubw routes Wise; Heaven's Feel goes places. On the plus side the blurays are only 3 months away.
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Feb 16, 2018 01:20
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RevolverDivider posted:There's zero overlap between the three routes after Day 3. Fate and Heaven's Feel have the Berserker fight play out the same way then diverge after, UBW diverges hard starting at the Berserker fight. There's definitely a lot of repetition on exposition, with scenes that play out almost exactly the same. Hot take: you could skip the VN and watch ufotable's adaptation. Aside from a couple scenes that work better in text, the anime gives off a strong vibe of "hey Nasu, if you could've done things differently, what'd you change?" to the improvement of the story.
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Feb 20, 2018 20:37
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Good arguments but at least when it comes to Heaven's Feel, after watching the first film I can already tell I'm going to be sending people directly to that rather than reading the route.
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Feb 20, 2018 20:48
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Raenir Salazar posted:Twilight for Boys is pretty much spot on. And made me reconsider my own earlier biases and hang ups about the Twilight series after watching that one episode of LWA where I decided that if Twilight was an anime I'd probably like it a lot. Tsukihime has a protagonist whereas Twilight doesn't, has a wide cast of likeable characters, and it also feels like a story that's part of a larger world to which effort was put into. You can argue about similarity of goals but the level of execution is incomparable, and if you think you'd like Twilight if it was an anime (btw it exists), you're just admitting to having really bad taste.
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Feb 21, 2018 05:51
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There's no same big enough.
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Feb 21, 2018 13:52
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Aurora posted:why would anyone prefer heaven's feel normal end The standing figure is no different from a machine. It's programmed to swing the sword, but it's a corpse with no desire to move. But even without human intelligence... There are machines that weave many dreams in this world. It is beautifully tragic. It's spring.
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Feb 22, 2018 00:14
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Endorph posted:That'd be going at it with a hatchet. and maybe that would or wouldn't work out, but it'd at least be an actual decision made in adaptation, which is the biggest issue with pretty much every fate adaptation. They're just afraid to change things. That's why Fate/Extra seems like it's going to be the best Fate anime. Hey, presage flower was great; I don't know if they'll manage to keep it up, but that was the good poo poo. Agreed on Last Encore, though. It fondly reminds me of Melody of Oblivion, blended with Monogatari, and Fate just liberally sprinkled on for flavor.
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Feb 22, 2018 02:16
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Iskander would fix their relationship and they'd have come out of the war as better people.
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Feb 25, 2018 11:08
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Stairmaster posted:then drown in your ideals and die
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Feb 26, 2018 15:28
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100 degrees Calcium posted:I finished the True End of Heaven's Feel. I don't really understand what happened but it must be really good because I was ugly-crying at a video game. Transferring consciousness between containers is a type of magecraft in the setting, and Illya employs it a couple time in her Dead Ends where Shirou ends up in a plush toy or other more gruesome states. What happens in the True End is Illya used the Third Magic to restore Shirou's soul into a not-dying state, using her body as a container, while her own soul entered the Greater Grail to close it. Shirou then spent a while like that until they found a compatible 'puppet' body to more permanently transfer his soul into. The end result is he's more or less a normal human, since good artificial bodies can accurately mimic human life both on the outside and inside, but it wasn't a body that was specifically made for him so it's a bit quirky. Rin for her part had to explain to the Mage's Association why in the gently caress a hole to the Root, the goal of all mages, opened and then immediately closed in Fuyuki - the fact that the true purpose of the Grail War was to reach Akasha was only known to the three founding families, after all. But thanks to Zelrecht interceding on her behalf that got sorted out and now she's student at the Clocktower like she had originally planned, while Shirou and Sakura live peacefully in Fuyuki.
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Mar 12, 2018 21:08
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Note the number of times he tells Rin she shouldn't fight because she's a girl.
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Mar 13, 2018 20:16
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Considering how it's laser-focused towards a couple women in his life, correct.
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Mar 13, 2018 20:59
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The thing is thatConspiratiorist posted:Note the number of times he tells Rin she shouldn't fight because she's a girl.
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Mar 13, 2018 21:45
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100 degrees Calcium posted:I get it, but he says it like 20 times to Saber. Like, maybe Shirou is actually way ahead of his time when it comes to gender politics, but he really doubles down on that poo poo even while all other prohibitive elements of his relationship with Saber get analyzed and resolved. Unless you really think that all people who exhibit bias do so extremely consistently and within the confines of rational expression, I'd think you'd have to acknowledge that this dude really couldn't let go of the fact that Saber is a girl and that is a reason he can't have her fight, even after he otherwise accepts the necessity of the Servant's role in their partnership. ...exhibiting bias consistently is exactly what earns anyone the moniker of biased or bigoted. It's because it specifically only happens with Saber, and only in her route, that raises the notion there's something else going there than simply a reflection of Shirou's, or the author's, sexism. Like you know, our plucky protagonist developing PTSD from seeing her internal organs splattered by Berserker in front of him - an image that flashes on his mind almost every time he displays worry for Saber.
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Mar 13, 2018 22:00
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I don't think it necessary since her narrative function in Fate is largely to be proxy for Shirou's issues. She's a far more compelling character in UBW since the lack of focus on her angst ironically gives her greater freedom to act herself, and if you want a more in-depth look at what makes her tick there's Fate/Zero. There's even the animated UBW Good End if you want to see her get a happy ending!
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May 1, 2018 17:21
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Aurora posted:this is entirely wrong and you get to learn a poo poo ton about saber. ubw is not saber's route. Yeah. I'm still right.
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May 1, 2018 21:30
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Apparently they've begun screening the Part 2 trailer?
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May 4, 2018 16:56
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HF part 1 bluray + soundtrack got released yesterday and rips are out. Comes with official english subs for those that missed it in theaters.
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May 9, 2018 18:30
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I'd have liked it as a post-credits scene. And without Saber Alter presented as a physical entity.
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May 10, 2018 00:31
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Darth Walrus posted:I mean, the dude was literally addicted to evil for his entire life. That’s a pretty tough hill to get over, morally speaking. He also spent most of his life sincerely attempting to be a good person and find a correct way to live that'd satisfy him, nearly killing himself in despair when he realized he couldn't.
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Jun 13, 2018 20:21
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RevolverDivider posted:Liz is fine, Jack is trash. Not empty quoting.
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Jun 16, 2018 23:30
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Stevefin posted:Also I noticed they did shuffle, or just outright delete some scenes from the VN, but that was only after I finished watching the movie when I thought back on it. like Rin and Sakrua awkwardly making a meal that saber hates cause they are too busy trying to reconnect as sisters I don't remember that happening before Saber's fight with Assassin.
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Jul 27, 2018 03:13
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Eh, considering the poo poo Chaldea deals with, post-Crisis Zelrecht isn't the deus ex machina he'd be in most other nasuverse stories. Nasu is probably either saving him for something, or hasn't come up with a plotline that'd merit his appearance. Remember that even more than the world of magic and servants, Zelrecht's character is strongly tied to Tsukihime.
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Aug 30, 2018 14:21
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Does grandpa worms even know the grail is hosed? Been years since I watched fate zero but I recall that revelation being a pretty eleventh hour thing He does, and implanted pieces of the destroyed 4th war grail vessel on Sakura with the express purpose of trying to hijack it from the Einzberns for the 5th. Which is what happens during Heaven's Feel. Bakanogami posted:IIRC Grandpa Worms knows the grail is corrupted, though I don't know when/how he learned that. He oversaw the entire 4th War through his bug familiars. Despite only showing up a couple times, he had a far better understanding of the actors and going ons than anyone else in that clusterfuck. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Oct 6, 2018 |
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Oct 6, 2018 02:33
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Darth Walrus posted:I think ‘one of the best ever’ might be over-egging it - dude’s central conflict is too weird and abstract to be particularly interesting or generate much empathy. A young victim from a disaster gets thoroughly destroyed by survivor's guilt, losing his sense of self-worth, then fills in the void through admiration for his savior and deciding to dedicate himself to their childish/idealized vision of justice. What's weird and abstract about this? It's incredibly simple - it's an archetypal hero origin story. The interesting part is how Nasu then approaches this character: In a more traditional set up, a character like that would be law enforcement, or part of some organization dedicated to this, or a solo masked vigilante - a person already realized, or at the very least on their way to it. OTOH Shirou is just a kid. Shirou is a kid specifically at that point in life, about to enter his senior year in highschool, where normal people need to really start sorting out what they're gonna do with their lives moving forward... and that's exactly what he's trying to do! For all his commitment, he lacks guidance: he's wracked by the question "what is even a hero?" as his ideal clashes with the reality of the mundane world, and though the source of his ideal, Kiritsugu's example was too vague for him to follow. Kotomine's line that he finally gets to be a hero is so dramatic because it first confronts Shirou with the reality that he can only be a hero when there's tragedy, and by leaving the comfort of his everyday life. It takes a while to really click in for him, but Shirou is a master of self-denial. And speaking of denial, the story gives Shirou a pretty comfy support network. He's not some rich kid brooding in a huge mansion about bats, darkness, and no parents. His family is a little unusual but he has one, people care for him, he sits down for breakfast and dinner every day with them, and he's got good friends at work and school. Friends and family that, because Shirou is such a nice and helpful guy, have no idea what a broken person he is (aside from the one other broken person close to him, who keeps it to herself for her own reasons). It's a watershed, horrific moment when Rin realizes that Shirou is not simply a dummy acting on impulse, but that his self-sacrificial streaks are a symptom of how fundamentally twisted he is. This is exactly the reaction anyone who cares for him should have, and immediately she wants to help but has no idea how nor the true extent of his issues. I could go on and on but basically, FSN takes old and very common-use fantasy tropes and then passes them through the lense of a 'normal' world. Issues of morality, social responsibility, family abuse, trauma - Nasu takes things to their logical extremes so it comes off as melodramatic, but this is what he's doing, and even his extreme approach makes sense given that half the cast are mythical figures with larger-than-life tragedies behind them, so the other half has to step up.
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Oct 6, 2018 16:30
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Ccs posted:I like how Rin is a competent mage and can actually use some pretty fearsome spells. Makes the whole thing seem less like a pokemon fight with heroic spirits if the masters also get in on the action. I suspect you're going to be very impressed with the latter parts of Unlimited Blade Works and Heavens Feel.
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Oct 9, 2018 21:04
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Shirou was actually left-handed all along.
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Oct 9, 2018 21:43
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Endorph posted:It's less that he's evil, more that he's a literal sociopath, in the psychological sense, and being raised strict catholic made him internalize that as him being pure evil. This. Kotomine lacks empathy and derives perverse pleasure from watching people suffer. However he's a very intelligent, extremely disciplined man with a penchant for deep thought and introspection. Thus, following the moral tenets of his upbringing, he devoted himself to anything he thought could give him a sense of purpose and fulfillment, on the hope of experiencing positive feelings the way normal people do. It didn't work. Unable to find traditional happiness, despair drove him to the point of suicide, and ultimately left him a hollow shell by the time of the 4th Grail War. Then the events there, and particularly the conclusion, answered without a doubt the question of what kind of person he was at his core. But his journey of self-discovery isn't over yet, for touching the Grail left him with more questions about the nature of his existence - you'll just have to read/watch Heavens Feel to see its conclusion.
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Oct 10, 2018 06:07
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Ccs posted:But I remember from my first watch through that things obviously don't turn out positively because the grail is corrupted. But so far there's nothing wrong with Kiritsugu's ideals. He wants world peace, he thinks the grail is a wish granter like a magic lamp and not a monkey's paw, so what he's doing is rational. It's kinda bullshit that the story pulls this bait and switch. "Sorry, the grail isn't what everybody told you it was because of something that happened in a previous War that nobody knew about! Sucks to be all of you guys! Have some evil mud instead!" The problem isn't that it was corrupted - which is certainly a problem, mind you, but it could still perform its functions more or less as normal - the problem is the core functioning logic of the grail. See, skipping much elaboration on the war/ritual, the grail is a system that takes Heroic Spirit souls and processes them into absurd quantities of magical energy, which it then uses to power a wish-granting mechanism. What said wish-granting mechanism is, is a magical trait (that used to be) possessed by the Einzberns which allows one to skip any required thaumaturgical processes to manifest whatever phenomenon the user desires. Its intended purpose, as devised by the three families, was to gather 7 heroic souls and use them to open a path to the Root, but only 6 are enough for most other purposes. Now the issues is, sure it can make anything you want happen, but it has to be something you can visualize. Kiritsugu fumbled because he realized he had no idea what world peace, true world peace, should be like. Or rather, the only way he could envision it, and that the grail was all too happy to grant, was the most terrible poo poo possible (kill everyone). The grail developed a malignant intelligence due to its corruption and as a result started playing favorites in its master and servant picks, but ultimately the failure of the whole enterprise was on Kiritsugu, and not so much because the Grail was an evil monkey's paw. ED: for reference, the main antagonist of Fate/Apocrypha had a similar goal of eliminating human suffering, but unlike Kiritsugu he had in-depth understanding of the exact functionings of the Grail and decades to plan, so he had a clear wish in mind: turn all of humanity into immortal pseudo-servants. It carried its own set of complicated issues of course, but nobody could argue it wasn't a plan. Note I'm in no way endorsing anyone to watch F/A; it isn't worth it. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Oct 10, 2018 |
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Oct 10, 2018 16:37
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Ccs posted:Yeah but is the wish-haver expected to know that the grail will need them to do all the planning for how the wish will work? It's a magical powerful artifact. It just seems like a bait and switch on the audience. After all the reason you're using a magical artifact to do the work for you is because it's too difficult to do without it. But it does do all the work for you. It even reads your mind rather than asking you to eloquently articulate your wish, but it can't give you what you want if you have no idea what you want. Kiritsugu's wish was too abstract, too childishly idealistic. That's the culmination of his character story - his heart's desire being too vague and impossible to reconcile with reality. Even with all the power in the world at his fingertips he couldn't make it happen, because he himself didn't believe it possible. Had the Grail not been corrupted it'd have been able to more neutrally arbitrate his thought process instead of egging him to choose the darkest possible approximation of his desire, but in the end all Kiritsugu could do was make the cold, pragmatic choice one last time before giving up on his dreams altogether.
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Oct 10, 2018 17:47
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