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Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



YggdrasilTM posted:

There is also the little problem that VNs are a dying medium.
What? Are they really? I have literally never heard this.

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Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



YggdrasilTM posted:

Yep. Visual novels sales in JP have been dwindiling from some time.
Do you have any kind of source to back this up? Because again, I've literally never heard this before.

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Stairmaster posted:

The F/SN remake will only have a caster rider shinji berserker route as new content

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



if you can post about abriged series in this thread, I can post about fanfic. is that really a door you want to open?

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Endorph posted:

fanfic: good, sincere, works within the work to expand it
abridged series: bad, insincere, diminishes the work by reducing it to quick gags
For sure. Wide Sargasso Sea is a fanfic of Jane Eyre, at least in part, and it's a published (and popular!) novel with real depth.

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



nrook posted:

I think F/SN is just awkward because UBW is commentary on Fate, and HF is commentary on UBW. Like the whole reason Shinji and Sakura are handled so weirdly in the second route is to make the third route, where Shirou actually fights to save Sakura from her horrible position, more affecting, right? And similarly Fate doesn’t really interrogate how bonkers Shirou’s dream is because that’s what UBW is about. I don’t think every VN is like that, although tbh my experience with them isn’t that broad. But for example, you can adapt Arcueid’s route like the Tsukihime manga does without the story looking incomplete.
I don't recall Sakura's treatment in UBW being much different from her treatment in Fate: she's Shirou's normie friend whose involvement in the War (but not, I'll note, Shirou's life or the broader themes and plot) always seems to be involuntary and incidental. (Haven't played through in a while, though.) So rather than calling UBW a commentary on Fate and HF a commentary on UBW, I'd say that all three routes are in dialogue with each other. Even Fate stands poorly on its own, though as the first route it fares a little better than the others.

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Blaze Dragon posted:

Zouken is the worst but let's not forget that Shinji has had zero good influences from his family. His father was an useless guy that wasn't even born a mage, and his uncle was Kariya who gets beaten up enough in Zero's Irisviel lessons for me to add more to it.

Maybe, if Shinji's paternal figures weren't evil, useless, or both, he would've grown to be a decent person.
That only makes hin useless in Zouken's opinion, not, like, objectively. It's Zouken's influence that made him turn out so poorly, not his father's lack of magical talent--if anything, his father being a wizard would've made him hate his own powerlessness even more

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



LORD OF BOOTY posted:

They're skipping over a chunk of the Kirei stuff, but I suspect they're doing that mostly because Zero covered a lot of the same ground and these movies are very clearly assuming you've already seen that

e: like, the movies are squaring the "Zero spoils HF" circle by just not treating any of the stuff from Zero as a twist. Presage Flower basically assumes you already know what Sakura's been going through, and Lost Butterfly just kind of casually drops the thing about Rin and Sakura being siblings as if the audience was already supposed to know that and it's just Shirou finding out.
Is the sibling thing not revealed in Fate or UBW? I thought it was, though I might be wrong on that

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



LORD OF BOOTY posted:

the /r/fatestaynight subreddit's "official viewing order" tells people to go 2006 -> UBW -> HF movies -> Zero and i want to grab whoever did that by the throat and scream at them until i cannot scream anymore

2006 is just complete flaming dogshit and watching the HF movies before Zero is a super loving bad idea if you're not already pretty deep into this poo poo

e: like, I get the "hold off Zero until after HF" thing for the VN but the movies are 100% assuming you've already seen Zero
wait, are they really? the VN route certainly didn't, since it was obviously written long before Zero. I find it difficult to imagine them introducing that kind of dependence into the adaptation

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Tae posted:

So basically fate
no

Blockhouse posted:

I think Fate/Zero is a very pretty series with a few good characters a lot of bad characters and an ending that makes me actively angry
If you have the time and energy, could you explain why the good characters are good, the bad characters are bad, and the ending makes you angry? This isn't a callout or anything; I just think the discourse on Fate/Zero might improve if people stopped vagueposting

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



what publisher would even want it? a nightmarishly long VN from over fifteen years ago with a preexisting fan translation? with fate's popularity, FSN's quality, and a renewed Western interest in visual novels, it might turn a profit, but it would be hugely risky

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Galaga Galaxian posted:

A fan translation of dubious quality that “punches up” certain scenes and completely botched a few others.

EG: Shirou being extra lovely about Mitsuzuri being assaulted or the whole “Einzburns possessing the Rhinegold” mistranslation that didn’t get figured out until FGO made an offhand comment about it.
I didn't say it was a good translation. I'd love an official release; I'm just not sure how likely it is

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



people don't need to play FSN to understand any part of FGO. Of all FSN's Servants, only Saber Alter has had any kind of role in a mainline Singularity. There haven't even been any fanservice events! I guess Pseudo-Servants are a thing, but those are like 80% OC so again, you in no way need to play FSN

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Compendium posted:

There are collab events with other Fate shows like Zero, Prisma Illya, and Apocrypha but those events also have their own self contained stories that won't leave you out of the loop as much.
also fsn hasn't had one of those

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Darox posted:

I'm glad BB is #1 as she deserves



People often overstate how much pre-knowledge you need to enjoy something, which is especially true for Fate. The only part of the main storyline where knowledge of FSN is especially relevant is in Singularity F and even then you don't need to know any of that, it's just nice details for fans like Heracles hanging out at the rubble of Einzbern castle.
wow

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Argas posted:

Also you're not any less of a fan if you were tired of visual novels and just read the LP/summary of the VN.

Totally not speaking as someone who burned out after UBW and didn't play HF.
idk if not finishing the FSN visual novel makes you "any less of a fan," but it does prevent you from engaging with the totality of that visual novel, whether you read a summary or not. you don't need to finish consuming media you aren't enjoying, but if you don't, it kinda limits your ability to talk about the media in question. to be clear, I'm not saying that it substantially impairs your perspective on any other Fate work (with a few obvious exceptions), just Fate/Stay Night itself

Elephant Parade fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Dec 12, 2019

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Conspiratiorist posted:

I'm not going to say anything callous but I wouldn't be exactly thrilled at Deen's FSN being what I'm remembered by.
I'm not going to say anything callous, but [holds megaphone to mouth] THIS GUY SUCKED

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Rody One Half posted:

Yes. The same thing happened with the DEEN Seacats voice cast actually.
Really? Huh. As someone who started with (the Realta Nua version of) the VN, it's weird to think that its voice actors were backported from an adaptation--especially when they all fit their roles so well, Saber in particular.

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Conspiratiorist posted:

Nah, Shirou in Sparks Liner High is put into an impossible situation and struggles with it until, finally on Saber's prompting, accepts he can't get past her if he's holding anything back, and reasons that if he can't even get to Sakura then there's no point, so he'll just have to throw caution to the wind here and now.

And though the ultimate conclusion wasn't the goal he strived for, he nevertheless dies with the satisfaction of having beat Saber. You could say he only dies at all because he forgot about Sakura for a moment in order to fulfill his wish of matching Saber.
He puts himself into that impossible situation, though. Remember, what sets him on that path is not asking Medusa for help.

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



doesn't saber beat him up in fsn

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



I dropped Apocrypha halfway through but it seemed to me like Sieg's failure to do anything was a product of his life as a willless puppet and therefore actually relevant to his character

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Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



Apocalypse isn't responsible for Fate's image problem, if it even has one, because Apocalypse isn't really part of Fate's image. It's a mediocre anime that very few people watched relative to Zero and UBW, and it's not like fans of the series are trying to push it back into the limelight.

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