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Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Repeat after me, everyone: Réalta Nua is canon, Réalta Nua is canon, Réalta Nua is canon. Learn it, breathe it, live it, and just loving deal with it already.

Silver2195 posted:

What made Zorak change his mind about allowing this thread?
If one's thread has to be closed 5 days of the week in between episodes something probably needs to change.

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Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Budget Cop posted:

i'm eagerly awaiting the tsukihime remake which will probably end up spawning a (good) anime adaptation. it's been like 6 years since they announced it though? wonder why it's taking so long
There was like a 2+ year wait in between when Mahoyo was first announced and when it was released. T-M is barely better than Valve about these sorts of things.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Wark Say posted:



Can we discuss our favorite Taiga Dojos to our heart's content?
Identity crisis!

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

BlitzBlast posted:

Though I guess even that's better than what happened to Ciel.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Found this while digging for that pic too; contains spoilers for pretty much everything, and may be kind of out of date at this point (no Mahoyo), but if you ever felt your life was incomplete without a character chart for the Nasuverse then I have you covered:

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Gotta keep it around for the duration of the Heaven's Feel movie(s)!

Anyway it's not like the Fate/Zero thread imploded despite basically serving as a general purpose T-M thread for several years after the last Zero episode aired.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I like his interactions with Aoko but yeah he doesn't really have much going for him otherwise. Not even Carnival Phantasm could make him amusing.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

That's not really saying much, Saber by pretty much any account is both the least important "main" character in FSN and the least interesting. The curse of the franchise is that despite this she's so popular.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Rodyle posted:

You always mix up Sakura and Saber Nate.
Sakura is not popular! She's also less of a character than a plot device. To that end, I think she serves her role well enough since that led to Heaven's Feel and thus I'm OK with her. Whereas when Saber was given free reign it led to Fate and well yeah.

Scrree posted:

She and Archer are basically the same character (a martyr who has succumb to despair and enters the Holy Grail War in order to change the past) so I don't really understand when people say she isn't thematically relevant to the story.
Fate/stay night is ultimately the story of Emiya Shirou and how he comes to terms with his past, present, and future. Archer is obviously vital to this, and Rin serves an incredibly important support role across all routes and helps highlight just how hosed up his mindset is. Saber by contrast is almost a completely self-contained story that just happens to intersect with Shirou's life; you could almost completely remove her in UBW and she effectively does disappear in HF and besides some battles maybe not going so well thematically nothing would change.

Compendium posted:

I think the best part about Saber is when she becomes a huge foodie. I laughed at the part where Shirou asked her about what food was like back in her era and she's just filled with so much hate at the thought of it.
This on the other hand I'm OK with. Some are simply born to play the role of the Type-Moon gag character. First it was Ciel and Kohaku, and now it's Saber.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Rodyle posted:

She was actually like, 6th or 7th in the female character poll somehow. She beat Kohaku. She beat Kohaku.
Unless this was done in like 2005 beating a Tsukihime character these days doesn't really mean much unless it's Arcueid.

As for Heaven's Feel, the start of it is actually really interesting because things go off the rails pretty quickly and you keep going "Wait, what?". It's the middle where Shirou and Rin are just sort of dicking around the town where things grind to a halt. Followed up by of course the bloodbath of the final two days. I love UBW but its greatest strength is how consistently good it is top-to-bottom; it doesn't quiiiiite have the closure or even the fights needed to wrap up the whole thing. Heaven's Feel was able to provide just that.

E: vvv

Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Oct 12, 2014

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Rodyle posted:

I'm real scared they'll take the easy way out and make Archer vs Shirou and Gil vs Shirou into swordfights. I want to believe in UFOtable but so much of FSN is inner monologue, mostly form Shirou but also from other characters in the various interludes, including flashbacks from characters like Berserker and Caster. It's the sort of stuff where if you try to show the scene from outside the character's head with none of that narration it won't play correctly, and a lot of those inner monologues got cut in Zero's anime.
I think ufotable likes the property far too much to half-rear end the climatic battle of their most-hyped adaption to date.

quote:

They're by far the most believable couple of the three main pairings.
I disagree, Rin if anything to me is the most unbelievable pairing because I just don't think they think of themselves that way. They see themselves as friends. Their hookup in UBW was just crossing the t's and dotting the i's in a "well, I guess they have to?" sort of way. Thy could've completely axed it and it wouldn't have really changed the plot significantly. If there's anyone that Rin is remotely connected to in an intimate way it'd be Archer, which obviously wouldn't really work as is.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Scrree posted:

Saber and Archer are essentially two sides of the same coin - Saber feels she failed her ideal while Archer feels failed by his ideal - and the fact that Shirou provides the same answer for both of them "I am (You were) not wrong." makes that obvious.
I think this is really forced reasoning; they're different if not wholly incompatible paths/ideals/whatever. Shirou has no real capacity to empathize with the little king who Just Wanted To Be Normal, nor does Arturia have a vested interest in the sort of self-sacrifice that Shirou desires other than the most superficial details of a king living for his people. Shirou would still be who he is (an extraordinarily broken man) if he had never met Saber. Now Saber and Kiritsugu, there's a relationship that was fairly well defined by how the two contrasted with each other.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

The only downside to the final battle in Heaven's Feel is that it makes the one in Fate just seem laughable in retrospect.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

SALT CURES HAM posted:

You also have to keep in mind that the final battle in Fate is a third of the way through the VN. It's the climax of the route, whereas the HF one is the climax of the entire VN.
It's just silly to think a Kotomine not on death's door would ever in a million years lose out against a Shirou with no reality marble even if he was caught by surprise.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Xyven posted:

The main problem I have with Sakura, and HF in general, is that it just feels like a completely different story than the first two routes. I like the story that HF tells, but it just feels so disconnected from the rest of the VN.
I can't speak for everyone of course but this is a big reason why I like it in the first place. The alternative would be having three Grail Wars just sort of play out normally and I don't know about you but I was pretty tapped on that front by the end of Fate.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Compendium posted:

For real TM crossover shenanigans, don't forget the All Around Type-Moon manga!

http://bato.to/comic/_/comics/all-around-type-moon-ahnenerbe-no-nichijou-r3607
How have I gone this long without reading this??


Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Ytlaya posted:

During that one scene where Sakura is telling her about all the terrible stuff she went through Rin was just sort of like "eh sorry but I just don't care, my life wasn't perfect either" so I'm not so sure about that.
The thing with Rin is that she tries to play the cold, calculating Magus role but is actually terrible at doing so. At that point in the story she is basically psyching herself up to kill Sakura for the good of the world only to flub it at the last second when she realizes she can't actually hurt her sister.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I wonder how much of that will survive in the Tsukihime remake, even if it was just background information.

Specifically the Tohnos were demon/human hybrids that had a tendency to go insane. Also Makihisa only adopted protag-Shiki (after murdering his whole family/village) because he thought it was funny that he had the same name as his own son. Swell guy.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

You need 7 servants' worth of energy to reach the root, which only the founding families of the war (Tohsaka, Matou, Einzbern) know about; all other participants are just in it for the wishes or prestige. For that, yes you need one spare Command Spell to force them to kill themselves. However no one else IIRC knows of this aspect of the ritual, and just want the wish giving capability. For that the grail only needs a bare minimum of 5 servants (see: the end of Fate/Zero) though 6 would be more ideal if it's a bigger wish. By the time of the 5th war however it seems like only Illya, having been sent directly from the Einzberns, is still ostensibly working towards reaching Akasha though she doesn't personally care for it herself. Zouken completely forgot about it until the very end of Heaven's Feel.

Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Oct 16, 2014

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Sylphid posted:

Was Ilya ever really motivated to win the war? If she knew the true nature of the Grail and how the war is supposed to end, there's no way she'd be too enthusiastic about the war coming to the end. My guess is she's more interested in punishing Shirou in any number of horrible ways than killing off Servants.
Not at all. She only cares about getting revenge (if we're being charitable, closure) against Kiritsugu/Shirou.

I believe for the Einzberns reaching the root was more of a technicality; the very process of doing so would allow them to recover the Third Magic.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

There was a scene in Zero where Zouken made Kariya add some sort of incantation to his summoning to ensure that he got a Berserker. So they have some control over it, provided of course that the classes are available in the first place.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

KoB posted:

Why is Archer so good? Tohsaka seemed glad he got archer/Gil too. But then I thought Saber was the "strongest" class?

I guess that neither show has had an archer be Archer either.
Saber is superior to Gil in a lot of specific areas and is on the whole a much more balanced class; it's just that none of that matters when you have the arsenal that Gil does.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

"At the end of a miracle" is also by far the saddest scene in the game. You had to go through hell to get that ending; it was deserved

This is also why I strongly recommend using a projection in the fight against Saber Alter, so that you get the Normal ending out of the way sooner (w/o the Kotomine battle) and have an even better build up for Return to the Spring.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

There's the stuff with the puppet, but before that Shirou was given some sort of new body by Illya's incomplete Third Magic to prevent him from dying in the first place. Basically she took his soul and constructed new flesh for it, but being incomplete it was just some sort of lump of "something" that Rider could rescue later after it was all over. By sticking that into the puppet the two in conjunction effectively replicate his original form.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Angry Grimace posted:

Whether it makes sense or not, Illya using legitimate divine sorcery to make Shirou alive and resolve the plot is still a deus ex. So what exactly was Shirou.....doing before this puppet thing occurred? What was he?
That's only true if you hadn't been paying attention to basically anything Illya had been saying throughout the game, especially in HF. It was telegraphed to hell.

As for what Shirou was doing, well not much beyond existing.

quote:

…But it wasn't perfect. Maybe Ilya's Third Sorcery didn't match the original.
A few days after the cavern collapsed, the Shirou Rider found was just a bit different from the Shirou we knew.
…No, she didn't find him, she picked him up… no, it was more like she plucked him out.
It's up to your imagination as to what he looked like at that moment.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

One of the only concrete details we learn of the 4th war in FSN is that Kiritsugu only talked to Saber three times, which of course made it into Zero.

If I remember Fate correctly, Saber knew that Kotomine was a former Master but lacked details such as his murder of Tokiomi or which Servant(s) he had during the 4th war. I think she knew that he and Kiritsugu had a beef but nothing specific (some comment about him be Kiritsugu's greatest enemy). Of course from her perspective he's effectively the same as Waver; a former Master who is not involved with the current war. Oops.

Didn't Kiritsugu believe he had killed Kotomine anyway? It's kind of silly that he lived so close to him for several years without noticing though.

Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Oct 18, 2014

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I laughed at how on the nose it was when they talked about Servants going off to do their own thing without a Master while showing Archer sitting up on top of the church.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Any Servant can stick around provided their Master can provide them mana, it's just that the cost is a lot higher because the grail isn't helping out anymore. Rin and especially Sakura have enormous reserves which apparently is enough. I think Saber exited stage left in Zero because Kiritsugu just didn't have enough juice (maybe not having any command seals hurt him too?? Though I don't think Sakura had any after HF either) comparatively. Presumably excess Servants being left behind after a Grail War is uncommon considering all them basically failed.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

WTF happened to Zouken anyway after Fate and UBW; it's not like he'd just give up.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I guess he'd just slither off into irrelevance since he can't make a new Grail on his own. Doubtful that he's just let Sakura off the hook though.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

The Vita remixes are OK. Most are inoffensive and some may even be a bit better. However, some just make you ask "What the hell happened here?"

Beef Waifu posted:

It's fun and I'd say it's worthing reading through and yes there is porn. I have no idea if there is an all-ages version though since it is the PC version.
There will be eventually on the Vita.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Basically all we really know are the new designs:




I think it was rumored to use the Mahoyo engine. I'll believe in a Satsuki route when I see it.

Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Oct 21, 2014

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I'd be pretty interested as to how much of Lancelot's abilities actually had some origin in Arthurian legend.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I think it's opposite, actually. Or at the very least every Berserker we've met thus far has had some sort of justification for the classification. Maybe the Assassin who turned into a Berserker in Fate/Extra is an exception?

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Cake Attack posted:

meh no effect is a little much, it pretty much nukes the area and is enough to have Ilya call Berserker off

also Crunchyroll spells Illya with two ls and it bothers me
Apparently that's the official spelling. I remember this because one of the Beast Lair translators for the new RN patch making a stink about changing all instances of "Ilya" in their patch.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

The 2012 version of RN is pretty slick. The special effects and new CGs are so much nicer compared to the hybrid patch from before, the former since what we got originally was just Waku Waku trying to recreate poo poo himself and the latter since all of the new CGs were previously upscales from the PS2. A decent chunk of the game was also still unvoiced for a variety of reasons, which isn't a problem now. Nasu even edited Fate a bit to make Shirou slightly less chauvinistic. And for English-speakers specifically the job by TakaJun has actually been cleaned and edited to a certain extent, hopefully (I haven't finished it yet) to not sound so bloody dry. Seriously I was rewatching a few of the more memorable scenes in lparhive and I don't understand how I ever thought half of it was acceptable English.

The only downside is that I don't think I care for the separate install approach, since now someone could theoretically play Heaven's Feel first.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Réalta Nua was ported to the PC in 2012 as three separate games/installs, one for each route (they share the same save file directory). A translation patch for this version was released relatively recently: http://realtapatch.tumblr.com/

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

It's kind of a weird patch to set up, to say nothing of how many people probably downloaded it and tried to get it to work on the DVD version of FSN. It seems to me like it'd be a good idea to read as many instructions for it as possible E: Although I'd completely understand skipping the asinine "watchme" for the patch on Beast's Lair.

As for the other patch while the Vita openings are pretty rad make sure you check the default options when you start it up. Its default setup is something like the original game version with all its warts and the Vita music remixes, both of which I suspect a good number of players will not want.

Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Oct 29, 2014

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

For starters, it only adapted Fate which is easily the least popular route. FSN is supposed to be a story about how broken a person Shirou is and by only going through Fate you basically get no semblance of a character arc for him. You just get this annoying, doe-eyed, chauvinistic, and hopelessly generic shounen idealistic hero. It also attempted to shoehorn in elements from other routes in an attempt to amalgam it into some sort of representation of the full story. So you get parts like Sakura being Rin's sister getting revealed without any of the narrative weight or character development it is supposed to entail. The production values predictably were also quite poor. It isn't as outright bad as the *ahem* Tsukihime anime, but it is an aggressively mediocre adaptation no matter how you slice it.

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Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Nope, still don't care.

Kyte posted:

How come the loli manga is also the coolest TM-related action manga?
Don't people like the Tsukihime manga?

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