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AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Am I doing this right?

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AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



It will really help hammer home the impact of Gil ripping her heart out if they gave her as much characterization in UBW as Irisviel had in F/Z. Plus, it adds some more build up for the follow-up HF movies.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Nate RFB posted:

I think more than a lot of other characters the comedic stuff has generally always treated Gil very well, whether it's hollow ataraxia or Carnival Phantasm. Like the wacky races episode where he turns out to be motorcycle geek. "I am the rules!" :smug:

Anyone have that scene where he goes all submissive to French Maid Saber Alter? :v:

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



F/Z (much like UBW) is a story about a clash of ideals more than anything else, and the major conflict revolves around two extremely anti-social individuals trying to figure each other out in the middle of a no-holds-bars battle between some of the most powerful entities in existance. To that end, I think Kiritsugu was a great character (and works best as a foil to Kirei, anyway). Outside of the flashback bits, you're not really supposed to empathize with him. It is fairly clear that he so internalized his philosophy as a means of maintaining his sanity in an unfair world. But while he was emotionally stunted, he was tactically brilliant. So, he wasn't just a useless lump.

Compare that to Shirou who is both emotionally stunted and tactically moronic. Sure, he has his moments to shine, but (especially during these first 7 eps of UBW), he can be seen as just dragging everyone else down while contributing absolutely dick to the fight at hand.

tl;dr, Kiritsugu and Shirou aren't really comparable because they follow two different character archetypes, and they serve different purposes in the stories they're portrayed in.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Nate RFB posted:

No big surprise as there is pretty much no character more ineffectual than Diarmuid.

Hey, he took out Beserker's NP F-14 with a single strike. He was just cursed with a pair of lovely self-absorbed masters.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



K. Flaps posted:

Thanks guys.. So do other masters not gently caress their servants or what?

You will notice that the SUPERIOR mages in the SUPERIOR story of Fate/Zero didn't need to bone their servants. There was ZERO boning servants in Fate/Zero. Homunculi and emotionally distraught partner mercenaries, on the other hand...:heysexy:

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



SALT CURES HAM posted:

Also, she doesn't have an older brother, she has an older sister.

Actually, I wanted to ask the Matou's. I never really got their actual family tree. Karia was the oldest of the Matou kids before he left the family right? Then it was the middle brother that Kiritsugu tortures to find out where Iri was, then Shinji, right? I can't remember if they were all actually Zouken's kids or if he had any others considering how old he is.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



icantfindaname posted:

Asia has a long history of extremist minority religious groups. You can see it Japan with stuff like Aum Shinryuko, but also historically with poo poo like the Taiping Rebellion in China where a dude declared he was Jesus' brother and got enough followers to launch a massive civil war. Christianity acts as one of those cults; for example most Christians in Korea are of an extremely zealous, true believer bent

Asia and Confucian-influenced societies seem to have this weird dichotomy where public life in general is aggressively secular and non-religious, but people are extremely superstitious in specific ways. I think religion gets suppressed so it builds up and explodes in bursts

For those who weren't aware, Aum Shinrikyo was the group behind the 1995 Tokyo subway sarin gas attacks. Asahara Shoko (their leader) was a blind farmer who claimed to be Jesus reincarnated and took a mishmash of apocalyptic imagery from Christian, Buddhist, and Shinto mythologies to preach the end of the world. The scariest part was that a majority of his followers were young disillusioned middle and upper middle class scientists and engineers.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Iskandar, Saber, Kiritsugu, Tokiomi, Kayneth, and Gilles de Rais were the only ones who came into the war with a specific wish. I think it is one of the best indicators of how the kids in the fifth war were just pawns when you realize how apathetic they are to the original purpose of the war.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



I never read the VN, but I did know about Kuzuki's crazy rear end combat ability going into this fight. I'm just wondering what was up with that vacuum punch he threw out before strangling the poo poo out of Saber. Was that specifically mentioned? Even Kirei couldn't pull that poo poo off unless we're just hand waving it as Attack Buff: Caster's Purple Magic Fists of Fisting.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"




This is my favorite F/Z gif edit, second only to Kiritsugu's dickbutt geass scroll.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



U-DO Burger posted:

Don't keep me in suspense here. Post the gif

I can't find the gif anywhere (and never saved it). Here's a frame by frame of it, though. :obon:

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Scrree posted:

True Assassin gets marks for not being a completely ineffective skimpily dressed Femme Fatale, which every 'Fate' knockoff work decided would be the easiest way to handle the class.

Fate/Apocrypha Assassin of Red:

and I'm not posting Assassin of Black because it's just so bad in the worst possible way.

Yeah, but this one actually makes sense considering who she's based on.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Endorph posted:

UBW is a great adaptation, but there isn't much that's different from the VN.

Also there's nothing that really says Kara no Kyoukai can't be part of the main continuity, and there's even a few references to it in other things, like Shirou referencing Touko at one point.

And Cornelius showing up in Kiritsugu's flashback in Fate/Zero. (Was that just an anime thing?)

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Randomzx posted:

Pretty sure Gilgamesh didn't actually shoot out of GoB in f/e ccc flashback. It mentioned the fight got so messy that devolved into Gilgamesh manually throwing his treasury of weapons at Enkidu instead of wielding them.

Also, i'm pretty sure the VN just talked about how Gilgamesh was not the natural wielder of most of his NP in GoB unlike with other heroes that are associated with their weapon. Its was more about him being the owner but not the wielder that was experienced with the NP. I don't think the brawler only was mentioned anywhere, especially when he actually fights with NP several times in the VN

Gil's weapons stash (outside of Ea/Enkidu/his armor) are all proto-forms of all the weapons of the world, I believe. So, they're generally weaker in addition to the lack of experience he has weilding them. That having been said, they're still something like B-rank apparently, since he manages to kill Heracles multiple times by just continuously firing them while holding him down with Enkidu.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:

Gilgamesh is Chaotic Good-Looking.

Mayhaps you could say...insane-ly sexy. *twirls mustache*

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Tonfa posted:

What did the Tohsakas even get out of giving Sakura as a weapon to the Matous, or did they just do that because raising one child is enough work :effort:

Watch Fate/Zero. Tokiomi outlines the whole (hosed up) rationale behind the decision during the mid-story boss battle.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



BlitzBlast posted:

Basically the entire situation with Sakura could have been resolved safely if Kariya and Tokiomi could talk like civilized adults for like, five minutes.

Well, Kariya was practically insane by that point. Have you ever been talking to someone but were so tired that you couldn't get words out clearly and got frustrated on why the other person wasn't understanding you or was straight ignoring you? Yeah. Imagine that but after getting internally consumed by dickworms for a year beforehand.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



KoB posted:

So does Archer know most everything about the Grail War since he ostensibly took part in it in the past? Or is he from like, an alternate timeline where Shirou wasnt in the War?

Im wondering if he figured out Berserker's/Caster's identity or if he just knew since hes done this before.

EMIYA is from a timeline where Shriou participated in the 5th HGW, but I don't think his particular iteration of it was an option in the VN. (Maybe Mind of Steel?)

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



LORD OF BUTT posted:

It seems like you could just append "and don't do any horrible hosed up poo poo in the process" to your wish and sidestep the Grail's jackassery pretty easily.

It is the classic Monkey's Paw/Djinn wish connundrum. "Don't do horrible poo poo" is subjective, and it can be very easy to justify hosed up poo poo.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Dr Pepper posted:

I can't really think of any plot point that would be ruined by cell phones.

Conversly, the best plot point used a cell phone. :getin:

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Honest Ray posted:

So why does Enkidu qualify as Lancer and not Berserker going by the source material?

Also, Berserker is usually not the default class for any servant that can qualify for another class. (e.g., They had to use a modified spell to summon Heracles and Lancelot as berserkers.) I would assume you would only get Berserker without the modified incantation if it was the only class remaining.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



-Troika- posted:

Rin can support a Servant without the grail with just her magic circuits but it takes like 80% of her prana.

I've been meaning to ask, where did the term "prana" come from vice the more oft used "mana"? Was it some weird Nasu-ism in one of the earlier releases?

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Clarste posted:

I think the important thing to note here is that neither are actually used in the Japanese, as far as I know. I'm betting some translator just thought they were appropriate, and probably wrote an essay somewhere justifying their choice.

This is what I was really asking, actually. :shobon:

Though, to be perfectly honest, I've heard the term "maya" more often in the Indian/Hindu context. Though, that is less generic magical energy, I guess. And more related to the mystical aspects of the Brahman.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Myurton posted:

Actually there was originally suppose to be an Ilya route as well but it was eventually scrapped. Perhaps that route led to Shirou becoming Archer, though we will probably never know.

That was the fan theory I've heard. Fun enough, the OVA for Carnival Phantasm has a skit with a giant Grail-possessed Illya bemoaning her lost route. :v:

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Silver2195 posted:

Shiki Ryougi's Servant killing abilities aren't really in question, since she killed 99 of them in Extra.

So, there's what? Seven characters/personalities across TM that are named Shiki?

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Zernach posted:

Watched Fate/Zero recently, can't get over Iskandar :love::allears:

Also sad that there wasn't more of Berserker yoinking Gils poo poo.

I always wondered, did Gil never actually retrieve those two or three NPs he launched at Caster's monstrosity? So, are there like, three legendary swords/spears just laying at the bottom of the Fuyuki River?

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Tonfa posted:

rewatched f/z recently and does urobuchi have a huge boner for choking in all of his works because holy poo poo

I think that was just Kirei's thing. (Well, and that one time Kiritsugu choked an illusion.) I mean, why wouldn't you when you have awesome kung fu hands?

Edit: Oh yeah, and Kariya. hmmm...

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Crossposting from UBW thread:

Raenir Salazar posted:

I don't fully catch the irony, can you explain in the TM thread or pm me?

The Grail actually calls Kiritsugu "Angra Mainyu" after he calls bullshit on the Grail's inability to generate a true miracle to it's face. Of course, this may have just been clever wordplay, since before the invent of the being "Angra Mainyu", it was just a phrase used to describe a/the destructive spirit. Much like how "satan" is originally just the gerund form of the Hebrew word meaning "to oppose" or "adversary".

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Silver2195 posted:


Bluebeard/Gilles de Rais (Caster):
  • As gross as Gilles is in Zero, Urobuchi actually seems to have toned him down a bit; the sexual aspects of his crimes seem to have been too much even for the Nasuverse.
  • On the other hand, Gilles apparently expressed contrition immediately before his execution, which isnít reflected in his characterization in Zero.
  • The real Gillesís experiments in demonology apparently failed, but his instructor in black magic was indeed named Prelati.
  • The origin of Prelatiís Spellbook (the sunken city of Rílyeh) and the incantation used to summon the giant aquatic monster reference H. P. Lovecraftís Cthulhu Mythos.
  • The novel Gilles et Jeanne, portraying Gillesís descent into madness and dwelling extensively on the contrast between Jeanneís purity and Gillesís impurity, his obsession with her, etc. may have been an inspiration for Gillesís portrayal in Zero.
  • The folktale of Bluebeard, who murders his wives and hides their bodies in a secret chamber, doesnít really bear much resemblance to the actual actions of Gilles, whose victims were unrelated children, but the belief that Gilles inspired the Bluebeard story continues to be popular. Thus, Gilles tells Uryu that Bluebeard is the name heís most likely familiar with Gilles under.


Everything I've read (which isn't much, honestly) has said that Gilles d'Rais' trial was based pretty much entirely on circumstantial evidence and likely false testimony from people who has something to gain from the confiscation of his assets. In fact, the Duke of Brittany, who was the prosecutor, received the titles to d'Rais' lands after his conviction. (i.e., What Caster says to Ryuunosuke about how he was tried because they wanted his land and it was all a big conspiracy by the local religious and secular leadership was pretty much true.)

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Namtab posted:

So is girl shiki a plant? All she has is water.

This is what I took from kara no kyoukai 1

Ryougi is the original Shiki before all that Tohno bullshit decided to rear its ugly head in the Nasuverse. :colbert:

And she ends up developing a taste for a delicious foreign-sounding frozen treat. :3:

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Only seen one scene of that show. It was Archer-Illya vs Saber Alter.

I would like to imagine the entire show is that. But, I know better. :negative:

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



TheLovablePlutonis posted:

New Grand Order trailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZD3PZM3IoE

e: Iskander fistpumping Darius ftw

:getin:

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Twiddy posted:

About Avalon, from my memory (and the sources I checked kind of backed me up on this) it's not that Avalon is an actual shield. It literally places the person in another dimension (the Utopia Avalon land of the faeries blah blah) so they are unreachable by damage. Basically, Ea's ultimate destructive power can't beat its defense because its defense is essentially "I'm not even there in the first place." Or I guess more accurately, "the space I'm occupying is another dimension and you can't get me neener neener neener neener!"

Does this mean if Gil was caught in Avalon's dimensional bubble, he'd be able to nuke Avalon (the concept) with Ea like he did Ionian Hetairoi? (Assuming it actually works similar to reality marbles.) And, yeah. IIRC, the Avalon they use in Fate isnt the real Avalon, it is just a traced copy.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Namtab posted:

Life came up, so I will be reacting to more than the first 5 mins of movie 5 tomorrow

Spiral Paradox is the best movie because it has Shiki Touko doing what she does best. :getin:

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Namtab posted:

I bet the ginger kid dies, also the guy in the top hat owns

You've seen him before. :unsmigghh:

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



alcharagia posted:

I mean unless we're talking about that foxy mama, Francis Drake. :allears:

I liked that gender bend even more than Red Saber just because it is based on an old literary rumor. :v:

AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Jul 1, 2015

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Rodyle posted:

Gilles is a good villain but a poor waifu.

:colbert:

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Nate RFB posted:

Movie 6 is just OK yeah. 7 is mostly decent but 5 is the one with the actual big payoff/climax.

You also get two epilogues and another 1 hour extra movie. (I honestly liked Mirai Fukuin almost as much as Spiral Paradox.)

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AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Chaotic Flame posted:

Rin sounds really miscast to me. The rest don't sound...awful.

Lancer and Kirei were the only good voices.

The others were poo poo. Like...the Fate/Zero dub was pretty good (comparatively). Did they just get a different (shittier) voice director for this project or something?

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