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frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

Almanya önde!
Bir başka hedef!
Sonsuz şef Löw için zafer!


silvergoose posted:

Also, if it's a draw, I would like to note that I have STILL not ever lost at this game. Someday, someday.
Let's continue then!

Seriously, though, I'm with Gutter Owl in having forgotten most of what was going on.

I'd be open to starting over and trying again, though.

e:

Tekopo posted:

Btw, the French center would have been absolutely crushed if it had gone another turn.
Not surprising. One thing I remember is being apprehensive at how shaky our line looked there.

frankenfreak fucked around with this message at Apr 24, 2015 around 21:14

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Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


If it starts again, I might forego the full rules for communications, since they only work well IRO. I also need to salvage my layer files from my dead laptop.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!


Same here. It was surprisingly tense and fun playing as the Allies.

Tekopo posted:

Sure thing, well call it a draw. Sorry for dropping the ball on this! Feel free to look at each other's threads. Btw, the French center would have been absolutely crushed if it had gone another turn.

Oh? Was it because it was weak or because our boss had gotten heavy cavalry around the north flank?

Tevery Best
Oct 11, 2013

Poland can, like, totally into space!


Had you attacked into 72 with a 3anything, you would have won that place since we only had two units there and one of them was the depleted cavalry. Our only hope was for frankenfreak to notice that and roll from his town into the reserve there, or for you to not have noticed. See end of the log, below.

Here's my napoleon.txt:

Les Journaux du Général Best, Chevalier Consommé, Ecraseur des Corps, de la Guerre Autrichienne posted:

7 AM. I really want to move against Dokhtorov, but in the end decide against it on the off chance that it's a cavalry corps that will hit my corps while it's retreating from Sokolnitz. Only later do I remember that all attacks by road movement must be feints, so he'd actually spare me activations in doing so. Well.

8 AM. Contemplating feinting against Dokhtorov. Worried by Bessieres' need for independent commands, but realise he doesn't need them all that much. Murat, however, will, in order to move an infantry to Santon and feint against Bagration's corps. I decide that since Dokhtorov's only moving every other turn, and Kienmayer's not moving at all, Bagration's corps is a much bigger deal. I will have an action next turn, dammit!

Fat Turkey proceeds not to use the two actions I've left for him. Dammit.

9 AM. If Gutter Owl and frankenfreak leave me with two or more independent actions, I'll try and take Dokhtorov down. Feint, feint, then bumrush the tool with infantry. This might work or it might not work (if he's stacked with a strength 3 unit on a front that's a complete sideshow). In the latter case, I'll just withdraw and try to reconsolidate on 132.

A better plan is nascent. Will have to wait for others' orders and a bit of rules advice, but we'll see.

Well, that turned out hilariously unexpected. I like that, having reflected on it, even if at first it seemed like "You done goofed, son".

10 AM. Considering either sending my cavalry north to threaten the main Allied flank, or keep it to hinder Kienmayer. Just getting into 105 should be enough to scare Langeron or the forces he's left behind, but more likely than not they would chase me back. I don't like those odds. And just giving up the cav would make it really difficult to defend against Kienmayer (even if, as I suspect, he has nothing better than a 2-strength).

11 AM dammit fat turkey

Also that cavalry can, in fact, feint across obstructed approaches is a problem for me. Let's see what Kienmayer does.

Kienmayer did nothing kekekekeke

Well, I guess I'm going to do nothing too. The guys up north are going to need all the forces they can get to deal with the Santon situation. I could maybe move Legrand down to Telnitz to see their response, but that doesn't really seem that advantageous.

gutter owl why are you not shooting at the fuckeeeer

I mean, I know why, but I really want to see Langeron get got

12AM oh poo poo what does she mean "psychic"

this sounds bad

Wait, St. Hilaire is NOT blocking Langeron? That's not looking good, at all. He must be getting ready for a Guard Attack next turn - but if Langeron attacks, we're hosed!

That must be the "psychic" thing - only Vandamme can save us now. Don't fail France, Frankenfreak!

dammmit dammit correct this ffreak please

well, gently caress.

I'm considering two options: either moving Bernadotte against Kienmayer, or across the impasse in the centre. I decide to go for Kienmayer - if I do that, I just might wreak enough havoc in their line for a move against Dokhtorov as well. This should force them to commit more men to this flank - Lichtenstein, most likely - men that cannot be used in the key areas.

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


Tekopo posted:

Sure thing, well call it a draw. Sorry for dropping the ball on this! Feel free to look at each other's threads. Btw, the French center would have been absolutely crushed if it had gone another turn.

Absolutely. I was praying that Frankenfreak would notice and send cavalry support St. Hilaire to defend against Langeron, but that didn't happen. Had Langeron been held off, I was banking on a crack across Miloradovich's bow with St. Hilaire's Guard Attack. We'd hopefully crumple Milo, then have a credible hole to threaten Prebyshevsky's flank. (Meanwhile, Prebyshevsky couldn't guard attack into 72, since the Allies had blown their guard capability earlier in the game.)

But yeah. As it stood, we were doomed to a center split from Langerion. As soon as Frankenfreak posted their turn, I just put my head in my hands. No fault of Frank's though. I was running a pretty risky gambit, and I can't blame them for not reading my mind.

Also: I had no idea what the hell Tevery was doing in the south. I was terrified of a complete breakthrough in 134. But it apparently worked, so clearly he had a better plan than I did.

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


Mixture if both. If you look there is a locale where the French are on approach on two approach but aren't on approach on one where there is a big allied corps. The corps could have attacked and only face a single 3 unit in reserve, which they would have won due to number of units. Winning that attack would have destroyed 4 steps worth of units.

Tevery Best
Oct 11, 2013

Poland can, like, totally into space!


As for the 134 situation, I made a mistake in not attacking in the correct order, with the push from Das Schloss coming up later, once the enemy was committed. However, once it all happened, I knew what units Dokhtorov had and I knew that I can hold him with a single 2-inf unless he pushed with two guys, and if he wanted to do that, he had to reattach them to his corps, and that would give me an advance warning.

EDIT: It also really has to be said that no plan survives contact with the enemy. If you look at our thread, the entire plan for my flank was to fall back and defend a proto-Verdun, while the north hammers the Allies from Santon. None of this ever came close to happening.

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


Anyway I hope you guys enjoyed it. I really want to get an irl game if this or even something on vassal at one point.

Tevery Best
Oct 11, 2013

Poland can, like, totally into space!


Tekopo posted:

Anyway I hope you guys enjoyed it. I really want to get an irl game if this or even something on vassal at one point.

I, for one, enjoyed it immensely, and am anxious to see the gamenotes from the other players.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!


Tevery Best posted:

As for the 134 situation, I made a mistake in not attacking in the correct order, with the push from Das Schloss coming up later, once the enemy was committed. However, once it all happened, I knew what units Dokhtorov had and I knew that I can hold him with a single 2-inf unless he pushed with two guys, and if he wanted to do that, he had to reattach them to his corps, and that would give me an advance warning.

I choose to believe that Dokhtorov acted as an "army in being", drawing much needed troops away from your center. And wow, I did not even notice that Langeron was in position to cut into 72. Maybe I'm a better strategist than I thought?

Most of my notes are in the thread, I think.

EDIT: Also, wouldn't have my pushing into 72 resulted in an immediate counterattack from Davout? A counterattack that I would have nothing to absorb?

Davin Valkri fucked around with this message at Apr 24, 2015 around 21:29

Tevery Best
Oct 11, 2013

Poland can, like, totally into space!


Well, I choose to believe he was kept in a timeout corner, effectively disabling 6 infantry factors

Also, yeah, the fall of 72 would be a beginning of something new and interesting, but I doubt we would have won it.

frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

Almanya önde!
Bir başka hedef!
Sonsuz şef Löw için zafer!


Gutter Owl posted:

But yeah. As it stood, we were doomed to a center split from Langerion. As soon as Frankenfreak posted their turn, I just put my head in my hands. No fault of Frank's though. I was running a pretty risky gambit, and I can't blame them for not reading my mind.
I was to focussed on blindly following orders to actually looking at what was happening to my right and especially my left. I only did when I was already committed to the attack, I also didn't really do my math on it, so bad turn from me there all around.

frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

Almanya önde!
Bir başka hedef!
Sonsuz şef Löw için zafer!


Tevery Best posted:

As for the 134 situation, I made a mistake in not attacking in the correct order, with the push from Das Schloss coming up later, once the enemy was committed. However, once it all happened, I knew what units Dokhtorov had and I knew that I can hold him with a single 2-inf unless he pushed with two guys, and if he wanted to do that, he had to reattach them to his corps, and that would give me an advance warning.
Or you could just have feinted from 134. That would have accomplished drawing a tile away from Dokhtorov without losing the cavalry. Part of my frantic feinting was me trying to demonstrate that feinting is a thing is this game and hoping you'd pick up on it and do it, too.

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!


Oh, yeah, you hadn't used your guard infantry, had you? That means that an attack into 72 would have cost you 8 morale points along with your four step casualties! Sweet!

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


Every time my orders were posted, my immediate thought was "NONONO DON'T DO THAT WHY DID I TELL YOU TO DO THAT WHAT WAS I THINKING."

Davin Valkri
Apr 8, 2011

Maybe you're weighing the moral pros and cons but let me assure you that OH MY GOD
SHOOT ME IN THE GODDAMNED FACE
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?!


Gutter Owl posted:

Every time my orders were posted, my immediate thought was "NONONO DON'T DO THAT WHY DID I TELL YOU TO DO THAT WHAT WAS I THINKING."

I think everybody was thinking something like that when they gave their orders. I know all of my orders should have sidebars of "this is my first game, don't blame me if this costs us everything!"

Tevery Best
Oct 11, 2013

Poland can, like, totally into space!


frankenfreak posted:

Or you could just have feinted from 134. That would have accomplished drawing a tile away from Dokhtorov without losing the cavalry. Part of my frantic feinting was me trying to demonstrate that feinting is a thing is this game and hoping you'd pick up on it and do it, too.

Yeah, that was what I meant to say. I didn't feint from 134 because I followed the advice Tekopo posted once in the Wargames thread (if they only block with one unit, you either shatter the corps or kill a 3-strength unit, which is good too), but shouldn't have done that without much thinking.

frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

Almanya önde!
Bir başka hedef!
Sonsuz şef Löw için zafer!


Gutter Owl posted:

Every time my orders were posted, my immediate thought was "NONONO DON'T DO THAT WHY DID I TELL YOU TO DO THAT WHAT WAS I THINKING."
That's the beautiful challenge in the team play rules, though. Between the delay, no other communications, and no plan surviving contact with the enemy it does a very good job of simulating a chaotic battlefield.

Aston
Nov 19, 2007

Okay
Okay
Okay
Okay
Okay



Thanks for running it tek and bummer about your laptop. I quite enjoyed it but I think a fair amount of the nuance went over my head.

Fat Turkey
Aug 1, 2004

Gobble Gobble Gobble!


Tevery Best posted:

...while the north hammers the Allies from Santon. None of this ever came close to happening.

I never received an order to attack, and our pre-match tactics suggested a largely defensive stance unless reinforcements came in.

silvergoose
Mar 18, 2006

IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS



frankenfreak posted:

That's the beautiful challenge in the team play rules, though. Between the delay, no other communications, and no plan surviving contact with the enemy it does a very good job of simulating a chaotic battlefield.

I tried to keep orders as vague and useless as possible because how the hell would they be the right orders in an hour?

I'll post more thoughts in a bit, I definitely feel that being a good commander in this game is not the same skillset as being a good player!

frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

Almanya önde!
Bir başka hedef!
Sonsuz şef Löw için zafer!


Fat Turkey posted:

I never received an order to attack, and our pre-match tactics suggested a largely defensive stance unless reinforcements came in.

I think he's talking about the killing zone we wanted to create around the Santon which the Allies never walked into.

silvergoose
Mar 18, 2006

IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS



frankenfreak posted:

I think he's talking about the killing zone we wanted to create around the Santon which the Allies never walked into.

I love just dancing cavalry around there as allies. As French, too, actually; my usual mode is send cavalry screens that direction and smash through the center while sneaking a 2 or 3 cav behind and harrying the flanks.

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Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


I honestly think that French 2 CAV is the best unit in the game. You attack from a flank, if they send one unit you push (and yeah, like it happened here, drawing out a 3 INF is good only if that CAV is not holding a critical flank ), if they send a 2 INF you win and potentially smash a Corps, if they send 2 units you win because hell, you just tied up two units. CAV in this game is awesome as long as you plan to use it like Cavalry was used IRL (flanking marches, smashing through defensive positions, the latter mostly due to no approach bonus if the attacking unit is cavalry). Never use cavalry to 'test out' defences, that's what 2 INFs are for.

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