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A RICH WHITE MAN
Jul 30, 2010

See them other chickenheads? They don't never leave the coop.


I don't know what to do and will bow to the will of you guys

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frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

Almanya önde!
Bir başka hedef!
Sonsuz şef Löw için zafer!


Gutter Owl posted:

Davout is my one disagreement with your corps strategy. Neither of the reserve corps are going to be of any use to the center.
I paired him with Lannes purely to give everyone two corps. Davout wouldn't be restricted to the center and could be deployed anywhere. If he is deployed. As has been pointed out, using them changes our victory condition considerably - something I don't want to do so easily as you.

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


Oh, I'm not super gung-ho about switching gears. That was OkieMurse's idea.

But I'm guessing at some point we won't really have the option to stay passive, unless the allies go too soft or too slow. Ease of defense aside, we are outnumbered without our reinforcement.

OkieMurse
Nov 2, 2011

I get paid to stab people with sharp objects.


switching gears?

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


OkieMurse posted:

switching gears?


OkieMurse posted:

I'm confused on whether it's actually a good idea to hold back the reinforcements, it seems you'd want them ASAP.

Moving from defense to offense.

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


Here's my proposed revised Troop assignment, based on OkieMurse's lineup.


St Hilaire (Center): 3GN, 3N, 2N, 3C, A, 2C*(105)
Vandamme (Center): 3GN, 3N, 2N, 3C

Lannes (Switch): 3N, 3C, 2N, A*(Santon), 2C*(66), 2C*(43)
Davout (Switch-Reinforce): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N

Legrand (South): 3N, A, 2C* (135), 2C*(120)
Bernadotte (South-Reinforce): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N

Bessiers (North): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N
Murat (North): 2N, 2N, 2N, 2N

Asterisks indicate detachments. Screens at 66 and 43 will slow down movement via the highway and slow any north flank attempt while Bessiers gets into position. 105/120/135 will keep the Allies from blitzing the south flank. Remember, we want them to go too hard and screw themselves.

Heavy Cavalry and Guard Infantry fight with the center, since they'll constitute the hammer when the tide shifts and we go for the throat.


Alternative ideas: We might switch a 3C to Bernadotte in place of the 3N, to give some extra oomph when we hit back on the south flank.

OkieMurse
Nov 2, 2011

I get paid to stab people with sharp objects.


Gutter Owl posted:

Moving from defense to offense.

Oh no Tekopo totally cleared that up - I was misunderstanding the victory conditions.

You actually want to withhold the reinforcements if at all humanly possible, we want to stay defense if we can without losing stars to the allies - its a lot easier to defend than attack.

When you don't have reinforcements, the allies have to attack or lose.
When the french do have reinforcements, we have to attack or lose.

In addition, the game mechanics make defending easier than attacking.

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


OkieMurse posted:

Oh no Tekopo totally cleared that up - I was misunderstanding the victory conditions.

You actually want to withhold the reinforcements if at all humanly possible, we want to stay defense if we can without losing stars to the allies - its a lot easier to defend than attack.

Yep.

The piss in the fondue is that "if at all humanly possible," bit. We're still vastly outnumbered and outgunned until we spring the trap. Unless the Allies have just come back from a lead-paint-tasting tour, they'll break through our lines eventually, by sheer weight of good ol' Russian dudespam.

The trick is making them scared enough of the French defensive victory to overcommit, so that their aggressive hammer becomes defensively unsustainable.

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


I'll be giving you the map of austrian deployment soon since I'm just waiting confirmation.

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


Here is the Allied Deployment. Please finalize your deployment based on this one:

Tekopo fucked around with this message at Oct 25, 2014 around 21:45

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


Soooo, any thoughts on my proposal?

Also, a supplementary note that I didn't include before: The reason I've shortstaffed Legrande so much is because his starting locale has a capacity of only 4 units, which he must legally occupy before he sends out detachments. And only Legrande is in position to deploy the cavalry detachments to 120 and 135.

EDIT: NEVERMIND I SUCK.

Hidden in section 6, subsection 8. "Note: A corps can be assigned more units than the capacity of the set-up locale, provided that after detachments the capacity limits are not violated."

So with that in mind, let's look at getting a few more infantry to Legrande.

Gutter Owl fucked around with this message at Oct 26, 2014 around 23:02

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


That's not correct:

quote:

Note: a corps can be assigned more units than the capacity of the set-up locale, provided that after detachments the capacity limits are not violated

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


Literally just saw that. So, how about something like this.

St Hilaire (Center): 3GN, 3N, 2N, 3C, A, 2C*(105)
Vandamme (Center): 3GN, 3N, 2N, 3C

Lannes (Switch): 3N, 2N, A*(Santon), 2C*(66), 2C*(43)
Davout (Switch-Reinforce): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N

Legrand (South): 3N, 2N, A, 2C* (135), 2C*(120)
Bernadotte (South-Reinforce): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N

Bessiers (North): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N
Murat (North): 3C, 2N, 2N, 2N

Gutter Owl fucked around with this message at Oct 26, 2014 around 23:56

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


Here's an alternate deployment:

St Hilaire (Center): 2N, 3C, 3C, 3C, A, 2C*(105)
Vandamme (Center): 3GN, 3GN, 3N, 2N,

Lannes (Switch): 3N, 3N, A*(Santon), 2C*(66), 2C*(43)
Davout (Switch-Reinforce): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N

Legrand (South): 3N, 2N, A, 2C* (135), 2C*(120)
Bernadotte (South-Reinforce): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N

Bessiers (North): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N
Murat (North): 2N, 2N, 2N, 2N

This setup gives Hilaire all the heavy cav, and Vandamme all the guard. This give Hilaire more mobility for retreats, but also reduces our ability to pressure two approaches with Guard attacks. Not sure I like it.


No, no, NO. Butts to this entire idea. We don't want an all cavalry corps on defense. All-cav assumes we want to retreat. Which is a dumb idea, since a retreat dissolves the corps. We want a more even distribution of forces. Back to the drawing board.

Gutter Owl fucked around with this message at Oct 26, 2014 around 23:42

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


Tekopo, how much longer do we have to figure this out?

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


Middle of the week should be fine. I'll let you know once you have to do final decisions.

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


Also remember that you can put detachments on approach immediately, so please specify that if necessary as well.

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


Anyone? Bueller?

Like, I can do this by myself if need be, but I'm gonna want the CIC chair in return.

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


So let's look at our opening strategy. What are we doing in our first couple turns?

I'm thinking the following.

Hilaire: Detach the seal (2N+A) via road to 102, then maneuver into Robelnitz. The pass will more or less hold itself with the seal, so this spreads the center south, forcing a wider attack front.

Vandamme has a tricky position. 72 is hard to defend, given the wide front. Maybe detach a unit to 71 to protect the town, then fall back behind the Gold Bach to protect 81. (If we do this, I might want to trade out Vandamme's Guard and give it to a more forward unit.)

Lannes: Seems like moving to 73 and guarding an approach is a no-brainer. Southeast approach seems like the most likely target.

Legrand: Put the artillery on the eastern approach and lay in for siege.

Murat: Dig in at 63, hold the line for the Santon battery to do its work.

Bessiers: Move to 40 and prepare to hold it.

Independant orders should likely go to cavalry probes.

Gutter Owl fucked around with this message at Oct 29, 2014 around 22:32

frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

Almanya önde!
Bir başka hedef!
Sonsuz şef Löw için zafer!


Gutter Owl posted:

Hilaire: Detach the seal (2N+A) via road to 102, then maneuver into Robelnitz. The pass will more or less hold itself with the seal, so this spreads the center south, forcing a wider attack front.
I'm worried this will only get his corps trapped in Kobelnitz (), between allied corps in 93 and 105 and get eliminated in short order. I doubt the losses the allies would take would be worth losing our units altogether.

So Vandamme would have to relieve him, committing his strength to Puntowitz and working together with St. Hilare at keeping 93 open. Not an impossible scenario, but would weaken the defense of 72.

quote:

Vandamme has a tricky position. 72 is hard to defend, given the wide front. Maybe detach a unit to 71 to protect the town, then fall back behind the Gold Bach to protect 81. (If we do this, I might want to trade out Vandamme's Guard and give it to a more forward unit.)

Lannes: Seems like moving to 73 and guarding an approach is a no-brainer. Southeast approach seems like the most likely target.
Going with the point I made above, I'd rather see these two corps defending along the line of 73-72-82(-92). As stated above, this allows for supporting St. Hilaire and forms a more coherent line together with the northern front (i.e. preventing the flanking of 63).

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


Ooh, good insight on the retreat problem in 104.

I like the northern defensive line...in fact, I like it so much, I'd rather pull St. Hilaire to 82-92, rather than thin Vandamme out. This gives us an iron northern-center, with the south-center rendered moot by the impassable lakes and the sealed pass. This leaves Legrand in the weeds by himself (with his cavalry support), but we wanted a weak right, and Bessiers and Davout can always plug the breach if the Allies go hard right.

And with both Tirzikowitz and Buntowitz occupied by friendlies, 72 only has two narrow fronts to defend (and we'd rather have narrow than wide). No defensive bonuses on the approach, but we can't have everything. In light of this, we might want to move a little more force to Vandamme, to cover both fronts. At the same time, we might want to remove the Guard Infantry to somewhere more mobile (Lannes? Davout???), since the roadways out of 72 are absolute crap.

The big weakpoint of this strategy is the 102-103 pass. Which is still impassable, mind. But we'll need to periodically refill the counterattack-support unit as it takes attrition from the counterattack action. And both 72 (Vandamme) and St Hilaire (92) are two moves away from 102--one normal move to 81, then one road move to 102. Meaning we'll need to think ahead about sending the backup. We could mitigate this by starting 102 off with a 3N rather than a 2N. Would that be overcommitting?


frankenfreak posted:

Kobelnitz ()

Add "this loving font" to my list of petty complaints.

Gutter Owl fucked around with this message at Oct 29, 2014 around 18:15

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


St Hilaire (Center): 3GN, 2N, 2N, 2N, A, 2C*(105)
Vandamme (Center): 3N, 3N, 3C

Lannes (Switch): 3GN, 3N, 2N, A*(Santon), 2C*(66), 2C*(43)
Davout (Switch-Reinforce): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N

Legrand (South): 3N, 3N, 2N, A, 2C* (135), 2C*(120)
Bernadotte (South-Reinforce): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N

Bessiers (North): 2N, 2N, 2N, 3C
Murat (North): 2N, 2N, 2N, 3C

This might be a better set-up if we go with a strong north-center defense. This gets the Heavy cavalry away from Lanners, St. Hilaire, and Legrand, all of whom are likely going to be holding towns and thus mired in obstructions.

Vandamme looks a bit weak here, but this is a trap. Any large force that tries to hit him is going to take a murderous guard attack to the flank from Lanners or St. Hilaire.

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


OkieMurse, are you still around? Haven't heard from you in a week.

frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

Almanya önde!
Bir başka hedef!
Sonsuz şef Löw için zafer!


A RICH WHITE MAN hasn't said anything in forever either.

GutterOwl, I'm quite liking where we've arrived at now. Unless the other guys have grave objections, we could call the force assignment finished.

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


Alright then. First of all, Gutter Owl is now the commanding general since I haven't heard anything from Okie. I will also see if anyone else is interested in taking over the french general slots for A RICH WHITE MAN as well.

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


Until further notice, Frankenfreak is the second in command.

Corps assignments:

Gutter Owl: St. Hilaire & Vandamme
Frankenfreak: Lannes & Davout
???: Legrand & Bernadotte
???: Murat & Bessiers

---

In the event of a reduced capacity French side, I'm trying to decide between the following.

GutterOwl (Center): St. Hilaire, Vandamme, Lannes, & Davout
Frankenfreak (Flanks): Bessiers, Murat, Legrand & Bernadotte

-OR-

GutterOwl (South): St. Hilaire, Vandamme, Legrand, & Bernadotte.
Frankenfreak (North): Murat, Bessiers, Lannes, & Davout.

Thoughts, Frank?

frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

Almanya önde!
Bir başka hedef!
Sonsuz şef Löw için zafer!


I'm ever so slightly in favor of the center/flanks split since has some unity of purpose between the corps (defense in the case of the flank, counter-offensive for the center), but either would be fine with me.

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


Sounds good. Center and Flanks it is.

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


Gutter Owl posted:

St Hilaire (Center): 3GN, 2N, 2N, 2N, A, 2C*(105)
Vandamme (Center): 3N, 3N, 3C

Lannes (Switch): 3GN, 3N, 2N, A*(Santon), 2C*(66), 2C*(43)
Davout (Switch-Reinforce): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N

Legrand (South): 3N, 3N, 2N, A, 2C* (135), 2C*(120)
Bernadotte (South-Reinforce): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N

Bessiers (North): 2N, 2N, 2N, 3C
Murat (North): 2N, 2N, 2N, 3C
Let me know if this is going to be the setup. Unless I hear otherwise I will be setting it up as above either tonight or tomorrow so that we can get the game going.

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


Confirmed.

Fat Turkey
Aug 1, 2004

Gobble Gobble Gobble!


If you a short a man in your hour of need, I could be your Joan of Arc. And by Joan, I mean I have the military background of a peasant girl. I never posted before because I am new to this game, but you are still short of players and I've read the rules and am trying to digest them. Your maps in this thread are good too.

I want to see if I still follow it in the morning and understand your suggestions and if so I can be your lowest ranking lackey.

Fat Turkey fucked around with this message at Nov 6, 2014 around 19:01

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


GO, I believe you have an extra 2INF unit in your list (you have 17 instead of 16), where can I remove it from?

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


Let's welcome Tevery Best as a new French General!

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


Ah, my mistake. Take it from St. Hilaire.

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


Alright, another issue: detached units can't be next to an allied objective locale, so (for example) 105, 66 and 120 are out.

Tevery Best
Oct 11, 2013

Poland can, like, totally into space!


Bonsoir, messieurs. I have no idea what I'm doing. Please give me a few pointers and a hint of what's expected of me. Much obliged. Vive l'Empereur!

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


Tekopo posted:

Alright, another issue: detached units can't be next to an allied objective locale, so (for example) 105, 66 and 120 are out.

...Okay, wow, that's a huge rules oversight on our part.

Like, a "bin the whole strategy and start from square one" oversight.

Give me some time on this one.

Tekopo
Oct 24, 2008

When you see it, you'll shit yourself.


Yeah sorry, that was my mistake, I should have checked before making the maps, so that's my bad.

Gutter Owl
Oct 21, 2010

keep yr head up, problem girl


St Hilaire (Center): 3GN, 2N, 2N, 2N, A*(102 @103-Approach)
Vandamme (Center): 3N, 3N, 3C

Lannes (Switch): 3GN, 3N, 2N, A*(Santon), 2C*(55), 2C*(43)
Davout (Switch-Reinforce): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N

Legrand (South): 3N, 3N, 2N, A, 2C*(135), 2C*(119)
Bernadotte (South-Reinforce): 3N, 2N, 2N, 2N

Bessiers (North): 2N, 2N, 2C, 3C
Murat (North): 2N, 2N, 2N, 3C

---

Okay, we can still make this work. Pulling the north cavalry back to 55 isn't a huge issue, as it still limits Bagration's road march. Likewise, 119 still slows Dokhtorov. The only problem is that either can clear out or lock down the screen with a cavalry feint.

The cavalry at 105 is the tricky one, since it doesn't have a simple find/replace answer. We could move it to 83 to slow the center attack a bit, or send it to 41 to shore up the north flank.

Alternately, we can reattach the cavalry and use the detachment to send one of our artillery into position. Either sending from St. Hilaire to 102, or from Legrande to 140 (with the intent to move to 147.)

I'm favoring the Artillery detachment to 102, as reflected above. This means we can finish the "plug" by using an independent action to move a 2N to 102, and St. Hilaire's corps move into 82. (Otherwise, we'd have to use St. Hilaire's order on a detach to send both plug units, and delay the maneuver into the city.) I've reassigned the spare cavalry to Bessiers, since he's got more open ground to work with. Everyone else is (intentionally) mired in obstructions.

Thoughts?

(Also, welcome to the thread, Tevery.)

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Tevery Best
Oct 11, 2013

Poland can, like, totally into space!


Gutter Owl posted:

Okay, we can still make this work. Pulling the north cavalry back to 55 isn't a huge issue, as it still limits Bagration's road march. Likewise, 119 still slows Dokhtorov. The only problem is that either can clear out or lock down the screen with a cavalry feint.

The cavalry at 105 is the tricky one, since it doesn't have a simple find/replace answer. We could move it to 83 to slow the center attack a bit, or send it to 41 to shore up the north flank.

Alternately, we can reattach the cavalry and use the detachment to send one of our artillery into position. Either sending from St. Hilaire to 102, or from Legrande to 140 (with the intent to move to 147.)

I'm favoring the Artillery detachment to 102, as reflected above. This means we can finish the "plug" by using an independent action to move a 2N to 102, and St. Hilaire's corps move into 82. (Otherwise, we'd have to use St. Hilaire's order on a detach to send both plug units, and delay the maneuver into the city.) I've reassigned the spare cavalry to Bessiers, since he's got more open ground to work with. Everyone else is (intentionally) mired in obstructions.

Thoughts?

(Also, welcome to the thread, Tevery.)

Would they be unable to do that if the cavalry were at 66? I think it actually makes it harder for them, since we're a bit further away and the roads don't facilitate it as much.

Do we not risk losing our artillery by setting it completely on its own? Or do we have a plan for it?

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