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What's the point of reading super boring elitist book like this if you can't even brag about it? Anyone can say they've read this because there's no way to verify as it's just a huge pile of random sentences.
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Oct 21, 2014 17:33
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Why do you read anything? For the experience, to learn something new, to challenge yourself perhaps. Who cares if anyone but you knows about it?
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Oct 21, 2014 17:47
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mallamp posted:What's the point of reading super boring elitist book like this if you can't even brag about it? Anyone can say they've read this because there's no way to verify as it's just a huge pile of random sentences. As Earwicker has said, it's actually not a huge pile of random sentences. It has a story, in fact, it has many stories. My only regret is that I didn't read it with a guide. Also, I didn't just read it. I read it out loud. Don't be mad.
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Oct 21, 2014 19:07
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Fellwenner posted:Why do you read anything? For the experience, to learn something new, to challenge yourself perhaps. Who cares if anyone but you knows about it?
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Oct 22, 2014 11:15
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mallamp posted:Most of the time yeah, but we are talking about Joyce. There are about 5 people in the world who would read him if they couldn't tell anyone they've read him. Unless you're my goodreads friend and pay attention to my updates you'd never know that I'll be doing so. I think you're worrying about it too much. Just sit back and enjoy the experience.
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Oct 22, 2014 11:19
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Captain Mog posted:On a more serious note: I do not consider this in any way to be a novel, or even a thing worthy of reading. It is, in essence, a nonsensical litany of letters and (more rarely) words strung together. Not even close to correct. As others have said, check out Joseph Campbell's Skeleton Key (if you can find it). Joyce wasn't kidding or using much hyperbole when he said he intended critics to spend centuries analyzing it. I've been reading it aloud to my one-year-old son for a couple of months now. He loves it, of course. You definitely get a better sense of the word-to-word impact when it's spoken.
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Oct 22, 2014 14:10
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mdemone posted:Not even close to correct. As others have said, check out Joseph Campbell's Skeleton Key (if you can find it). Joyce wasn't kidding or using much hyperbole when he said he intended critics to spend centuries analyzing it. What does the kid think it's about?
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Oct 22, 2014 14:29
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Smoking Crow posted:What does the kid think it's about? I dunno much about what goes on in his crazy little head, but the fall (bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonnerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthurnuk!) made him tip over with delight.
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Oct 22, 2014 17:02
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mallamp posted:Most of the time yeah, but we are talking about Joyce. There are about 5 people in the world who would read him if they couldn't tell anyone they've read him. What a load of crap.
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Oct 22, 2014 17:41
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mallamp posted:Most of the time yeah, but we are talking about Joyce. There are about 5 people in the world who would read him if they couldn't tell anyone they've read him. This but every book I've ever posted about.
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Oct 22, 2014 18:05
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A fun research project would be to examine how Finnegan's Wake makes people react, especially the people who've never read it. It's interesting that so many people seem to have such strong feelings about it.
The Doctor fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Oct 23, 2014 |
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Oct 22, 2014 23:04
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The Doctor posted:A fun research project would be to examine how Finnegan's Wake makes people react, especially the people who've never read it. It's interesting that so many people seem to have such strong feelings about it. I guess you're going to see it in realtime.
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Oct 23, 2014 02:25
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Post your reaction videos to youtube and instagram today and enjoy your 1.000.000 views, hashtag finnieswake.
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Oct 23, 2014 07:14
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Smoking Crow posted:I learned that there is a better online version than the one Earwicker linked. It even has annotations! quote:riverrun - the course which a river shapes and follows through the landscape + The Letter: Reverend (letter start) + (Egyptian hieroglyphic) = 'rn' or 'ren' - name + Samuel Taylor Coleridge, Kubla Khan: "In Xanadu did Kubla Khan / A stately pleasure-dome decree: / Where Alph, the sacred river, ran / Through caverns measureless to man / Down to a sunless sea." (poem was composed one night after Coleridge experienced an opium influenced dream. Upon waking, he set about writing lines of poetry that came to him from the dream until he was interrupted. The poem could not be completed according to its original 200–300 line plan as the interruption caused him to forget the lines: "though he still retained some vague and dim recollection of the general purport of the vision, yet, with the exception of some eight or ten scattered lines and images, all the rest had passed away like the images on the surface of a stream into which a stone had been cast, but, alas! without the after restoration of the latter"). First word of the book and I'm already completely loving lost. Count me in.
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Oct 24, 2014 19:30
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I'm going to join, I think, but with the mindset that it was a 600+ page love-letter to language and words.
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Oct 24, 2014 20:12
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While we are on that first sentence, one of the first things to look at is the fact that it's actually a continuation of the last sentence. So the book is a sort of loop. "A way a lone a last a loved a long the rivverun, past Eve and Adam's, etc" This loop connects to the idea that history consists of recurring cycles.
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Oct 24, 2014 20:17
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This should be interesting, count me in. The annotated copy Smoking Crow linked is a pretty good resource if you're too lazy to go to the library
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Oct 24, 2014 21:40
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Guess what came in the mail?  
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Oct 25, 2014 05:46
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That's a great cover. This thread inspired me to read it with annotations, eventually.
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Oct 25, 2014 05:49
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Also, here's a handy chart to figure out what's going on
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Oct 25, 2014 05:51
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That image is...amazing.
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Oct 25, 2014 14:36
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I reserved a copy from my library and apparently the book is kept in the juvenile lit section at one of the branches. I wonder who made that decision.
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Oct 25, 2014 15:12
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Cloks posted:I reserved a copy from my library and apparently the book is kept in the juvenile lit section at one of the branches. I wonder who made that decision. they probably read this "What clashes here of wills gen wonts, oystrygods gaggin fishy-gods! Brékkek Kékkek Kékkek Kékkek! Kóax Kóax Kóax! Ualu Ualu Ualu! Quaouauh! Where the Baddelaries partisans are still out to mathmaster Malachus Micgranes and the Verdons cata-pelting the camibalistics out of the Whoyteboyce of Hoodie Head." and was all "whatever"
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Oct 25, 2014 16:29
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ulvir posted:they probably read this "What clashes here of wills gen wonts, oystrygods gaggin fishy-gods! Brékkek Kékkek Kékkek Kékkek! Kóax Kóax Kóax! Ualu Ualu Ualu! Quaouauh! Where the Baddelaries partisans are still out to mathmaster Malachus Micgranes and the Verdons cata-pelting the camibalistics out of the Whoyteboyce of Hoodie Head." and was all "whatever" Totally besides the point but as much as I can understand, that passage is about sea birds eating fish and he references The Frogs? (Kóax Kóax Kóax) Reading this is going to be a challenge.
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Oct 25, 2014 16:47
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I read the first two pages, got, like, fifteen references and felt really good about myself. Then I checked the loving annotated version and jesus christ, people
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Oct 25, 2014 18:11
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V. Illych L. posted:I read the first two pages, got, like, fifteen references and felt really good about myself. Then I checked the loving annotated version and jesus christ, people 
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Oct 25, 2014 18:30
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While much of the fun of reading the book is its puzzle-like nature, I really don't think you need to get every single reference in any particular sentence when reading the book through the first time. It's the kind of book that is great for multiple reads, so you can always dive deeper when reading it again, and when you are first approaching it I think it is good to sort of maintain a balance where you are using a guide to get the references but mostly to just get a handle on what is going on in the stories and concepts the book is about. Otherwise you can get stuck forever.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:15
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Would this be the sort of book better read on paper or does it not matter? I usually roll on the kindle.
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Oct 25, 2014 23:26
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Fellwenner posted:Would this be the sort of book better read on paper or does it not matter? I usually roll on the kindle. I prefer book, but you can use kindle. The words are the same, after all.
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Oct 25, 2014 23:51
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No, meaning annotations and references. Flipping back and forth depending on the layout of the book.
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Oct 26, 2014 00:17
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Fellwenner posted:No, meaning annotations and references. Flipping back and forth depending on the layout of the book. I have never used ebook versions for annotated books, so I'm no help sorry. 
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Oct 26, 2014 00:26
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I did some reading about the book and I apologize for my earlier dismissal. While I was trying to be funny, the sentiment I expressed was still what I thought about the book and was based only on offhand comments seen across the internet and elsewhere. So now I actually think it seems like something really interesting. I own Dubliners, though, and I read the first story and Clay and they both were really boring, so I don't know what's up with that.
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Oct 29, 2014 05:22
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http://www.metaportal.com.br/jjoyce/burgess1.htm One of the biggest hurdles with reading Finnegans Wake is simply learning how to read the work. This hurdle it is a compound of smaller yet very different priories presented by the book. Many stories focus on plot, which is fine because plot is a very important aspect of a lot of fiction stories. Yet for Finnegans Wake it is not the main focus. The text is set in the mind of a person dreaming, and emulates the wondering mind. What story points that can be fleshed out is buried under the language that is made up of multiple languages, puns, dialects, combined words, multiple contexts, and references to other subjects such as literature and history as well as the use of onomatopoeias and in the case of book II chapter II a total fracturing of the text by use of annotations. All in all it is a very dense work where many passages lends it self so easy to study. Here is one I found: Take this single sentences from Chapter II Book III "Drouth is stronger than faction." The word Drouth is actually "drought" it is just pronounce differently. There for the argument presented the worry and effects of a drought on a society can mend the factions of a society into a more cohesive unit. The sentence also plays with the reader's pre-known knowledge of the phrase "Truth is stranger than faction." In fact to further point out the relation of the two sentences, here they are stacked with a third row showing off the similar letters in the phrase. http://www.finwake.com/1024chapter23/1024finn23.htm Drouth is stronger than faction. --Truth is stranger than fiction. ----uth is str-nger than f-ction. Joyce is playing with the fact that people read by the word and not by the letter. Also it should be noted that the letter 'T' and the letter 'D' when spoken have very similar effect on the mouth where the tongue raises up and a puff of air is pushed out. This explanation may makes Joyce even more intimating, yet still read the book. Something will catch your interest. It should be stated that there is a ton of non-instantaneous and non-noticeable effects that happen to the reader over the course of a reading the book similar to that of taking a hike or practicing a craft. The effects of reading Finnegans Wake not only show a person how to read Finnegans wake, but provide a deeper understanding of reading books in general, understanding the human mind, and how the textual and spoken language effect a person. mazzi Chart Czar fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Oct 29, 2014 |
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Oct 29, 2014 09:02
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Either English is not your first language or you are posting from a tablet or both, but either way, good post! When it's laid out that way it seems much simpler.
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Oct 29, 2014 12:13
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7 HOURS
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Oct 29, 2014 22:51
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mazzi Chart Czar posted:it should be noted that the letter 'T' and the letter 'D' when spoken have very similar effect on the mouth where the tongue raises up and a puff of air is pushed out. It is actually a bit helpful in the context of FW to think about that these basic sounds have shifted within one word as languages grow and split off from one another. The Sanskrit pitar and Latin pater influence the Old English faeder Old German fatar later down the line the German vater and English father, and so on. For most words in the English language there is a somewhat linear history with, back in the very distant past, some proto-Indo-European root word and, in more recent history, a strong French influence built on top of an older Anglo-Saxon core and of course many stages in between and of course the modern standarizations. In Finnegans Wake however, that history is not so linear. It's more like all of these histories are sort of superimposed on each other and so more visible at the same time, the cycles of history stacked on top of one another rather than a progression in a line. And of course it is not just the history of the English language that is relevant, but the Irish language as well, especially with regard to place names. Earwicker fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Oct 29, 2014 |
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Oct 29, 2014 23:09
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And we're off! Have fun everyone.
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Oct 30, 2014 12:42
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Smoking Crow posted:And we're off! Have fun everyone. A way a lone a last a love a long the
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Oct 30, 2014 23:23
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Smoking Crow posted:And we're off! Have fun everyone. Ok, so first sentence. Like Ulysses, Dublin (and Ireland) becomes the backdrop for and embodiment of the (cultural) history of man. The river, and the flow of history, and the story of man, and the text of Finnegans Wake all begin with Adam and Eve, meander with semi-scrutable but indefinable intent and taken at a certain view all loop around in an ongoing, unfinished, unfinishable...something.
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Oct 31, 2014 03:17
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Niric posted:the story of man, and the text of Finnegans Wake all begin with Adam and Eve Actually it's Eve and Adam('s), and that reversal is important. He's reversing not just the name of the actual church he's talking about, but the primacy of Adam over Eve. Before monotheistic religion arrived in Ireland, it was dominated by Celtic polytheistic beliefs, which involved worship of rivers or at least belief in river spirits, and which has also popularly been thought to be a less strictly patriarchal religion than the Catholicism which later came to dominate Irish culture. And in that patriarchal religion, the primacy of man over woman is explained first by the story of Adam and Eve, and justified with the explanation that Eve is, essentially, more responsible for the Fall.
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Oct 31, 2014 04:09
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