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Borsche69 posted:sulla finally released his BNW review http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Civ5/bnwreview.html this is a fuckin fantastic breakdown
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Nov 3, 2014 01:03
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 04:32 |
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Sullla and Trip have known one another for a long time from the Civ3 days Sullla knows his civ, he was one of the big playtesters for Civ4 and even got a shoutout in the manual
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Nov 3, 2014 06:49
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Seriously though I have massive buyers remorse for Civ 5 even though I got it for like $10 on a sale. It's not a fun nation-building game, it's not a fun 4X, and it's not a fun turn-based strategy. It's an extremely tepid mix of them all.
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Nov 3, 2014 07:11
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So is the Civ genre dead now? It seems games like Civ4 where you have actual mechanics, aren't really that popular. Also I want another MoM.
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Nov 3, 2014 07:23
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Age of Wonders 3 is pretty good if you play on small maps with 4 or so opponents.
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Nov 3, 2014 07:26
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And holy gently caress manual trade routes are the dumbest thing why the gently caress would anyone design a mindless repetitive system like that in a game? I'm scared to try Age of Wonders, since it seems like something that is too easy to gently caress up.
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Nov 3, 2014 07:26
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Age of Wonders is extremely good but there were some balance issues at launch, and I was upset that doing anything besides autoresolving was basically pointless even though it was fun to play the battles out. Endless Legend is basically the same problem but this time you autoresolve because the tactical battles aren't fun.
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Nov 3, 2014 07:29
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Start with the stand alone expansion to age of wonders II, and wonder about the horrible UI which is out dated. Good for its time. The third game has a lot of quality of life improvements.
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Nov 3, 2014 07:31
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quote:The gameplay in Civ5 has been deliberately set up to appeal to this sort of less experienced player. When I watch my non-gaming friends play one of the Civilization games, most of the time they're just sitting around hitting next turn. "Do something!" I think in my head. Build more cities and units, come up with a plan, something, anything. But no, they're just having fun experiencing the ambiance of the game, they don't have any particular goals or strategy in mind. Civ5's passive style of gameplay is a perfect fit for this sort of player. You can sit back and keep hitting next turn without doing much of anything; eventually, the game will keep popping up to give you free rewards, and tell you how awesome you are for playing the game. The funniest part is that they managed to remove the ambiance from Beyond Earth, so it's not even worth it for the warm, fuzzy, laid-back kind of gaming.
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Nov 3, 2014 08:21
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Powercrazy posted:So is the Civ genre dead now? It seems games like Civ4 where you have actual mechanics, aren't really that popular. goonproject: save the 4x genre
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Nov 3, 2014 08:28
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Powercrazy posted:So is the Civ genre dead now? It seems games like Civ4 where you have actual mechanics, aren't really that popular. civ 5 sold like 6 million copies
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Nov 3, 2014 09:50
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Paradox killed the 4x genre. Long live Grand Strategy.
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Nov 3, 2014 10:36
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Powercrazy posted:So is the Civ genre dead now? It seems games like Civ4 where you have actual mechanics, aren't really that popular. Honestly asking for good mechanics and then asking for another MoM is hilarious because MoM(and most fantasy 4x games) are broken as gently caress. Also I think the genre is fine. There have been a lot of strategy games coming out of a lot of varieties. It's a good day to like tbs games. I do wish another imperialism or a game trying to compete with civ came out, though.
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Nov 3, 2014 14:00
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the 4x genre is only dead if you actually play 4x games most people just run games on easy mode so they can feel really cool and never really get challenged- in fact, if people get put into difficult situations its not uncommon for them to just start a new game over
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Nov 3, 2014 14:22
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Larry Parrish posted:Age of Wonders is extremely good but there were some balance issues at launch, and I was upset that doing anything besides autoresolving was basically pointless even though it was fun to play the battles out. It's weird to me that you'd really like Age of Wonders but really dislike Civ 5 when to me they're pretty similar games.
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Nov 3, 2014 14:27
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OwlFancier posted:It's weird to me that you'd really like Age of Wonders but really dislike Civ 5 when to me they're pretty similar games. It's mostly because at least I have a spell button to click sometimes in Age of Wonders. I don't actually really like it though because I have like 5 hours played on it but hundreds of CK2 and EU4. Maybe I actually hate Civ-style 4x games and I never really realized it.
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Nov 3, 2014 14:50
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borsch lets play civ 5: beyond earth
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Nov 3, 2014 16:14
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Panzeh posted:Honestly asking for good mechanics and then asking for another MoM is hilarious because MoM(and most fantasy 4x games) are broken as gently caress. MoM is broken in both good and bad ways. Bad ways: Certain spells just straight up don't work, or at worst make it where you have to reload the game. There are a few early game combinations where you can trivialize the game and no one (assuming a competent opponent) could stop you. Some mechanics break with certain modifiers and combinations like armor/magic resistance + the various buffs. Good ways: Eventually hero's becomes invulnerable except from very specific spells. All the other awesome combinations of artifacts+enchantments and summons that can happen in the late game. Permanent Terraforming, something that doesn't exist in any other 4x game. Late game ridiculous cities. Late Game Logistics. etc.
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Nov 3, 2014 16:47
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babypolis posted:civ 5 sold like 6 million copies What does this have to do with games that have good mechanics?
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Nov 3, 2014 16:55
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Borsche69 posted:sulla finally released his BNW review http://www.garath.net/Sullla/Civ5/bnwreview.html Wow, even the lead designer admits 1UPT doesn't work. On one hand I'm impressed he admits he hosed, but refuses to do anything about it? Why not just let military units stack but only up to 3-5 times? In my mind that would alleviate so many of the problems with this game. I just played an apollo BE game and the AI might be even worse than Civ5. First off, they added canyons and craters because mountains didn't make enough choke points on there own. Except you can shoot over them making it even easier to exploit the AI's stupidity. How can the lead designer know that lack of space is a big problem with Civ5, but then put in more no-fun zones that exacerbates the problem? I was attacked in my game but had a giant canyon separating me and my opponent. What the AI did was send all it's melee units to the left: single file and wedged between the coast and canyon where they are easily picked off. Then it sends all it's ranged units leftward to an open area. It literally marched it's ranged units right up to my melee units near my capital to be one-shot?!? They didn't even try to shot from two tiles away. They just moved next to me to be murdered more efficiently  . If units could just be in stacks of at least 3 I'd have had to fight an actual war instead of shooting fish in a barrel. Even Civ5 didn't seem this bad. It's even more revealing that the only the unit that even comes close to being threatening is the siege worm. It's just one slow, powerful unit. It behaves much like a stack would. Too bad the aliens are completely passive and there is a early game building that prevents them from coming within 2 tiles of your cities. Also, the VA blows. IDGI all they had to do was hire a Star Trek actor to read some philosophy 101 quotes WTF. It is painful to hear anyone speak in this game.
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Nov 3, 2014 17:27
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I really liked that in age of wonders that races like certain biomes Draconians love burnt as gently caress land frostlings love ice land humans like boring land Then there are spells that slowly convert any land under your wizard towers domain into that land type if you research it. People can dispell those but it makes the map look really neat. There are also units like the frostling ice witch or some undead guy that create their favored land as they walk. I wish that was in 3 instead of the current way. Only one spell does this and it is for a biome no one likes. The other ones have to be converted a few hexs at a time manually.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:02
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Yea one of the cool things about Heroes of Might and Magic is the "home-field advantage" of your units. It's a subtle thing that has some decent strategic implications.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:08
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it affects morale in 3 and that is cool Towns can rebel if it gets too low If you take a draconian town in burnt lava mountains and move halflings into it, they are extremely pissed until you change the land In battles morale will affect your chance to critical or fumble from 25% crit to 0 to 40% fumble. Also adds in desertion to the units. The new race, halflings, have a luck component that is based around morale so bards and what not really help out.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:13
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Larry Parrish posted:Age of Wonders is extremely good but there were some balance issues at launch, and I was upset that doing anything besides autoresolving was basically pointless even though it was fun to play the battles out. actually you should never autoresolve because the AI is so braindead that you can win 100% of the time while taking absolutely no damage (when using ranged units) or so little damage that you heal immediately.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:23
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Normal Adult Human posted:borsch lets play civ 5: beyond earth I never bought it
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Nov 3, 2014 18:24
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Powercrazy posted:What does this have to do with games that have good mechanics? What does this have to do with the price of tea in china?
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Nov 3, 2014 18:25
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FacelessVoid posted:Wow, even the lead designer admits 1UPT doesn't work. On one hand I'm impressed he admits he hosed, but refuses to do anything about it? Why not just let military units stack but only up to 3-5 times? In my mind that would alleviate so many of the problems with this game. John Shafer isn't the lead designer anymore, I think he stepped down after Civ5 was released so he didn't even work on the expacs either.
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Nov 3, 2014 18:25
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Yeah I always thought 3-5 upt would be a decent compromise
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Nov 3, 2014 19:45
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Just allow unlimited stacking, but have penalties for attacking out of the stack or defending in the stack. That way it's not a nightmare to move all your units, but choke-points are still an interesting tactical barrier. If you want 3-5upt, then just do something like Civ3/MoM did and have "armies," where unit composition matters. In Civ4 unit composition mattered too, but for some reason people didn't like getting wrecked while playing sim-city v  v
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Nov 3, 2014 20:05
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Powercrazy posted:Just allow unlimited stacking, but have penalties for attacking out of the stack or defending in the stack. That way it's not a nightmare to move all your units, but choke-points are still an interesting tactical barrier. Collateral damage and other siege weapons were good deterrents to stacks.
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Nov 3, 2014 21:51
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Honestly, the simpler the combat in civ, the better it will probably be for the AI. Just let people stack and throw units in if they want. You aren't going to wring a whole lot of tactical maneuvering out of maps this congested.
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Nov 3, 2014 22:11
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What bugs me most is that most combat in civ is before the 20th c. There werent even continous frontlines then, theres not even a thematic justification for 1upt.
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Nov 3, 2014 22:42
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The designers lost track of what a 4x game actually IS. No 4x game has anything more than passable combat, and that is honestly fine. No one plays civ for the tactical combat, they play it for the 4 X's. Tactical combat isn't part of that, 1upt adds nothing.
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Nov 4, 2014 00:19
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1upt lets you stomp waves of mindless npc mobs like if you were playing an asymmetric action-adventure game
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Nov 4, 2014 00:32
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Panzeh posted:Honestly, the simpler the combat in civ, the better it will probably be for the AI. Just let people stack and throw units in if they want. You aren't going to wring a whole lot of tactical maneuvering out of maps this congested. The funny thing is that Civ4 is actually a pretty tactically deep game in multiplayer. The system is very well thought out and, tbh, attacking is extremely difficult in that game. I think if the AI knew how to use catapults in singleplayer then the player's whole strategy would have to change from single doom stack to quick offensive strikes with 2 movers in lightly guarded locations that force the opponent to try and defend multiple sites.
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Nov 4, 2014 00:35
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Powercrazy posted:The designers lost track of what a 4x game actually IS. No 4x game has anything more than passable combat, and that is honestly fine. No one plays civ for the tactical combat, they play it for the 4 X's. Tactical combat isn't part of that, 1upt adds nothing. I liked Sulla's bit about why Civ5 is so popular... I've said for awhile now that people just want to play a builder's paradise game where they mindlessly put every single building in every single city and Civ5 is the type of game where that happens.
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Nov 4, 2014 00:36
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borsche luffles wants me to say he misses you and wants to play space civ with you
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Nov 4, 2014 00:44
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Borsche69 posted:I liked Sulla's bit about why Civ5 is so popular... I've said for awhile now that people just want to play a builder's paradise game where they mindlessly put every single building in every single city and Civ5 is the type of game where that happens. I don't mind civ 5 being what it is. Also Imperialism was better than civ2 and 3 in pretty much every way. City states in civ 5 were an attempt to add in the OPMs from the paradox games, but imperialism had minor powers actually have a significant role in that they actually put money into the game's economy(the best way to make money in imperialism is selling finished goods to minor powers, the best way to get them to make you their favored trading partner is to buy their raw materials with a subsidy).
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Nov 4, 2014 00:51
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Normal Adult Human posted:borsche luffles wants me to say he misses you and wants to play space civ with you I don't have Civ Beyond Earth
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Nov 4, 2014 00:55
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Powercrazy posted:What does this have to do with games that have good mechanics? people didnt buy civ 5 in droves because it was somehow easier or shallower than previous civs. they bought it because its accessible and the presentation is great. its clear theres actually a pretty big market for 4x games out there so lack of interest isnt the problem with the genre.
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Nov 4, 2014 01:06
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