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bucketmouse
Aug 16, 2004

we con-trol the ho-ri-zon-tal
we con-trol the verrr-ti-cal


ayn rand hand job posted:

i wouldn't say that

it's in tcc

that's my point it should be in games

trucutru posted:

So is there a sci-fi libertarian story where people have small bombs inserted into their brains so that they get blown-up if they ever break a contract? Because, holy poo poo, these people and their loving all-mighty contracts are dumb as gently caress.

does total recall count

bucketmouse fucked around with this message at Dec 14, 2014 around 03:45

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killhamster
Apr 15, 2004

SCAMMER
Hero Member

the new traits made possible by the invention of the blockchain


BLOCKCHAAAAAAAAAIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNN

theflyingexecutive
Apr 22, 2007



1 who decides if coins are stolen for one
2 how do you prove they're stolen when, in an anonymous currency, possession is ten tenths of the law?

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008


traits? thats pretty advanced if they're only just now figuring out #include

bucketmouse
Aug 16, 2004

we con-trol the ho-ri-zon-tal
we con-trol the verrr-ti-cal


theflyingexecutive posted:

1 who decides if coins are stolen for one
2 how do you prove they're stolen when, in an anonymous currency, possession is ten tenths of the law?



the hero we sort of want i guess maybe

the hero we deserve

Cantorsdust
Aug 9, 2008

Infinitely many points, but zero length.

Top Cop

bucketmouse posted:



the hero we sort of want i guess maybe

the hero we deserve

ol bob cop there is looking a little lumpy

Pocket
Aug 27, 2006



sorry for your mental deficiencies if you think switzerland's neighbours are even remotely better than it.

that reddit dude is just pissy about the direct democracy because the populace voted 80% against the gold standard two weeks ago. also blocked the govt from spending 3bn on a bunch of lovely gripen fighter jets from sweden in the spring.

Kurvi Tasch
Oct 13, 2012

Thats von Derp for you!


Aleksei Vasiliev posted:

For Bitcoin newbies: A table showing why Bitcoin is the best form of money


Durable? For what fraction of all mined bitcoins does the private key still even exist. Who cares if the coins are still listed in the block-chain if your exchange can destroy your coins by rebooting the EC2 instance.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

Fuck your duck dynasty

Pocket posted:

sorry for your mental deficiencies if you think switzerland's neighbours are even remotely better than it.

that reddit dude is just pissy about the direct democracy because the populace voted 80% against the gold standard two weeks ago. also blocked the govt from spending 3bn on a bunch of lovely gripen fighter jets from sweden in the spring.

It wasn't mental deficiencies, it was my wallet at the time. Switzerland sucks for everyone who's not extremely rich, sorry

Buttcoin purse
Apr 24, 2014

THIS DUDE HERE IS A REAL CLOWN


Krinkle posted:

what happens to all those bitcoin dust tips people made if the price keeps going down is it eventually going to be where someone has eleven billion individual motes of bitcoin trying to buy one fleshlight and bitpay is like "gently caress you I'm processing eleven billion quintillionths of a penny transactions on a fifteen cent commission get the gently caress outta here with your internet equivalent of a dumptruck of pennies".

I don't think that's the way it works (based on the deep understanding I have from reading the whitepaper[s] [s]the wiki Something Awful). I think Bitpay will say to you something like "to buy the fleshlight, deposit X coins into the following wallet address in the next 15 minutes", and you then transfer Y coins out of one or more of your wallets into their wallet, with X going into their wallet and Y-X (the change) going back into one of your wallets. Bitpay aren't going to care (or see, unless they go to some effort) how you stored the coins. I guess the bitcoin network has transaction size limits that mean you can't transfer out of more than N wallets at once so your transaction won't break the network.

I can't remember how the network knows what your wallet's balance is, though. One way it can figure it out is by looking at every transaction in the blockchain, not sure if it actually does that though. I suppose if your wallet has had eleven billion transactions it might take a bit longer to calculate the balance maybe?

I could have gotten this all wrong though.

Nintendo Kid posted:

no bitcoins have notes on them, only transactions can have that and noone cares to track tags on transactions coins may have been associated with

How else do I make sure the coins you're giving me are purestrain?

hobbesmaster posted:

traits? thats pretty advanced if they're only just now figuring out #include

Herman Merman
Jul 6, 2008


Buttcoin purse posted:

I can't remember how the network knows what your wallet's balance is, though. One way it can figure it out is by looking at every transaction in the blockchain, not sure if it actually does that though. I suppose if your wallet has had eleven billion transactions it might take a bit longer to calculate the balance maybe?
Pretty much this. The "balance" of any given address (public key hash) is technically just a list of unspent transaction outputs (UTXOs) associated with that address, and it is compiled by going through the entire chain.

You can authorize the conversion of UTXOs to transaction inputs by providing a signature using the corresponding private key.

Herman Merman fucked around with this message at Dec 14, 2014 around 11:45

Herman Merman
Jul 6, 2008


QuarkJets posted:

It wasn't mental deficiencies, it was my wallet at the time. Switzerland sucks for everyone who's not extremely rich, sorry
a country with a GNI (PPP) of $55k per capita and a Gini index of about 0.3, truly a hell for the not extremely rich

Sham bam bamina!
Nov 6, 2012

ƨtupid cat


Gravy Boat 2k

what about happiness per capita

Pocket
Aug 27, 2006



pretty fuckin high

http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/...es/switzerland/

quote:

When asked to rate their general satisfaction with life on a scale from 0 to 10, Swiss people gave it a 7.8 grade, the highest score in the OECD where average life satisfaction is 6.6.

http://unsdsn.org/resources/publica...ss-report-2013/

quote:

The report identifies the countries with the highest levels of happiness:

Denmark
Norway
Switzerland
Netherlands
Sweden

OJ MIST 2 THE DICK
Sep 10, 2008

Anytime I need to see your face I just close my eyes
And I am taken to a place
Where your crystal minds and magenta feelings
Take up shelter in the base of my spine
Sweet like a chica cherry cola

-Cheap Trick


Nap Ghost

johnniewalker posted:


[WTS] *Replica* PAMP Suisse 1oz Gold Bars
November 30, 2014, 10:38:48 PM

#1
Hi everybody,
Once again I have some of my *REPLICA* PAMP Suisse 1oz Gold Bars for sale. They are obviously NOT real and are being sold as novelty pieces only. I find them cool so I think other people will, too. If you want to discuss the issue of me selling these, visit this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=847951.20
(notice this one is locked!).

Anyways, I am selling them for including shipping anywhere in the US. I don't have many available but if you are interested in ordering more than one let me know. Please PM w/all inquiries.


Thanks!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878982.0

Soricidus
Oct 20, 2010
freedom-hating statist shill

Pillbug


At a minimum, johnniewalker should be receiving negative trust ratings from people that object to his promoting fraud. He has crossed a line and is now a scammer in my book.

Hammerite
Mar 9, 2007

And you don't remember what I said here, either, but it was pompous and stupid.


that guy who tried to make money selling silver he'd "purified" to bitcoiners? he's still doing that?

also shameful wrong font in the text input box, wth

Boxturret
Oct 3, 2013

"..fight the mighty bearwhale by throwing all their money at it

then much celebrating occurred after the bearwhle left after eating all their money

i still don't get it"

-Me on Sept 20th, 2015


i thought he publically quit bitcoin a few months ago

CampingCarl
Apr 28, 2008



Buttcoin purse posted:

I don't think that's the way it works (based on the deep understanding I have from reading the whitepaper[s] [s]the wiki Something Awful). I think Bitpay will say to you something like "to buy the fleshlight, deposit X coins into the following wallet address in the next 15 minutes", and you then transfer Y coins out of one or more of your wallets into their wallet, with X going into their wallet and Y-X (the change) going back into one of your wallets. Bitpay aren't going to care (or see, unless they go to some effort) how you stored the coins. I guess the bitcoin network has transaction size limits that mean you can't transfer out of more than N wallets at once so your transaction won't break the network.

I can't remember how the network knows what your wallet's balance is, though. One way it can figure it out is by looking at every transaction in the blockchain, not sure if it actually does that though. I suppose if your wallet has had eleven billion transactions it might take a bit longer to calculate the balance maybe?

I could have gotten this all wrong though.
A wallet and an address are different. A wallet is a collection of the addresses you own and your keys to them. You don't need to do the whole blockchain to find the balance of a particular address, you just need to find the latest confirmed block it was involved with because the output of a transaction is a running total.

A single transaction can have many inputs so you can take all that dust and send it to another address just fine. However each block only has a certain amount of space and having to include all those input addresses takes up more space than a single input. This is why earlier someone calculated that the average transaction speed is much lower than 6/s, transaction size is going up. So if miners charge a flat fee per transaction dust is fine. However assuming miners are rational actors the fee/transaction will be higher as there are now less transactions per block or will ask for fees depending on the size of the transaction which could make dust worth 0 or negative.

I hope I got all that right since I did actually read that dumb white paper a while ago.

Herman Merman
Jul 6, 2008


CampingCarl posted:

You don't need to do the whole blockchain to find the balance of a particular address, you just need to find the latest confirmed block it was involved with because the output of a transaction is a running total.
I don't think this is correct. THE BLOCKCHAIN is just a list of transactions that can be processed into a list of UTXOs for each address, no running totals are stored in it.

Dr. Honked
Jan 9, 2011

toilet duck

ahhhh the elegant simplicity of bitcoin

CampingCarl
Apr 28, 2008



Herman Merman posted:

I don't think this is correct. THE BLOCKCHAIN is just a list of transactions that can be processed into a list of UTXOs for each address, no running totals are stored in it.
UTXOs are just the outputs of a transaction in a block and those do have the value. The value of the outputs can only be a total of the inputs (plus any mined coins) so you don't need to look at earlier blocks. This is why only nodes and miners actually have to download the full blockchain. Satoshi even described a way to prune the blockchain by discarding the blocks where all the outputs have been used in later blocks because you don't need them. As far as I know Bitcoiners have decided not to use that because reasons.

computer toucher
Jan 8, 2012



QuarkJets posted:

It wasn't mental deficiencies, it was my wallet at the time. Switzerland sucks for everyone who's not extremely rich, sorry

i went to switzerland once, it was p nice. better than sweden.

Crust First
May 1, 2013

Wrong lads.


CampingCarl posted:

UTXOs are just the outputs of a transaction in a block and those do have the value. The value of the outputs can only be a total of the inputs (plus any mined coins) so you don't need to look at earlier blocks. This is why only nodes and miners actually have to download the full blockchain. Satoshi even described a way to prune the blockchain by discarding the blocks where all the outputs have been used in later blocks because you don't need them. As far as I know Bitcoiners have decided not to use that because reasons.

you actually do need the whole blockchain, miner or not, if you want to know the real balance of an address. while transactions are just made of inputs and outputs, there is no "running total" kept for inputs that an address can access. right now there are a bunch of clients where you can trust a third party to give you a total for your address without having the whole blockchain, but that's because that third party has the blockchain instead.

there IS a pruning algorithm described by satoshi, but it's not been implemented and there are no plans to implement it aside from it being "on the wiki".

(also the miners need the full blockchain not because they want to know the full balance of an address, but because they want to access the blocks where an input was confirmed. they don't really need to know if an address has a single input or a thousand inputs, they just care if the input(s) you're spending is/are valid.)

Dr. Honked
Jan 9, 2011

toilet duck

computer toucher posted:

i went to switzerland once, it was p nice. better than sweden.

i've not been to switzerland but i have been to sweden. i was taken aback somewhat by the racism and homophobia of this otherwise gentle peoples

Dr. Honked
Jan 9, 2011

toilet duck

scandchat

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

Fuck your duck dynasty

computer toucher posted:

i went to switzerland once, it was p nice. better than sweden.

Like I said, it's a cool place to visit if you're not black or muslim. Just don't stay unless you're wealthy

CampingCarl
Apr 28, 2008



Crust First posted:

you actually do need the whole blockchain, miner or not, if you want to know the real balance of an address. while transactions are just made of inputs and outputs, there is no "running total" kept for inputs that an address can access. right now there are a bunch of clients where you can trust a third party to give you a total for your address without having the whole blockchain, but that's because that third party has the blockchain instead.

there IS a pruning algorithm described by satoshi, but it's not been implemented and there are no plans to implement it aside from it being "on the wiki".

(also the miners need the full blockchain not because they want to know the full balance of an address, but because they want to access the blocks where an input was confirmed. they don't really need to know if an address has a single input or a thousand inputs, they just care if the input(s) you're spending is/are valid.)
I just went and checked the paper again. Perhaps "running total" was a poor choice of words because the total could be spread over more than one block, but you still only need those blocks where the address is involved. Say there is a transaction that spends all of A to B in a block, then later in a second block there is a transaction from B to C. For the wallet software to find the value of C it doesn't require the first block, only the second. If that first block contains only that one transaction you could delete it entirely.

It does make me curious exactly how many blocks are completely spent and just take up space.

The Management
Jan 2, 2010

sup, bitch?


CampingCarl posted:

I just went and checked the paper again.

lol

PleasureKevin
Jan 2, 2011



Crust First posted:

you actually do need the whole blockchain, miner or not, if you want to know the real balance of an address. while transactions are just made of inputs and outputs, there is no "running total" kept for inputs that an address can access. right now there are a bunch of clients where you can trust a third party to give you a total for your address without having the whole blockchain, but that's because that third party has the blockchain instead.

there IS a pruning algorithm described by satoshi, but it's not been implemented and there are no plans to implement it aside from it being "on the wiki".

(also the miners need the full blockchain not because they want to know the full balance of an address, but because they want to access the blocks where an input was confirmed. they don't really need to know if an address has a single input or a thousand inputs, they just care if the input(s) you're spending is/are valid.)

why do you have the same av as that thought amplification wand dude

Krinkle
Feb 9, 2003

Ah do believe Ah've got the vapors...
Ah mean the farts



PleasureKevin posted:

why do you have the same av as that thought amplification wand dude

All the baby no-avs became garbage dicks.

ANAmal.net
Mar 2, 2002


100% digital native web developer


QuarkJets posted:

Like I said, it's a cool place to visit if you're not black or muslim. Just don't stay unless you're wealthy

i spent a couple days in zurich and it was good times but goddamn if i didnt end up spending twenty francs every time i wanted a loving sandwich

i did run into this butt vending machine while i was there, to make this somewhat butt-relevant

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005


I'm assuming the only thing holding them in place is a bike cable lock right? Knowing the kind of people who steal bikes and the kind of people who steal butts I'm amazed this hasn't become the stealing-tide-detergent of ancaps

Pocket
Aug 27, 2006



QuarkJets posted:

Like I said, it's a cool place to visit if you're not black or muslim. Just don't stay unless you're wealthy

like many other forums posters and swiss citizens i am not part of the wealthy elite because i didn't invest in bitcoin, but i can attest life is possible without a private bank account, g5 and a butler, the salaries follow the cost of living somewhat. for tourists it really is pricey and hotel costs alone are a rip off, but for getting out of the cities and visiting the country side and summer/winter sports it is amazing.

muslim tourists are very welcome, emirates airlines were lobbying to get geneva airport expanded to fit a380 capabilities because they already have or project having that scale of volume on their dubai - geneva service.

to be clear there are problems in switzerland and there is a problem with racism and due to the subtle nature of it (like employment practices) a lot of people are unaware of it going on thus consider it not a problem. at least with every new generation it is being pushed out, also it's not like the police force is murdering black dudes.


sweden is an amazing country. it's also easy to understand how people get them confused if they are illiterate.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

Pocket posted:

muslim tourists are very welcome, emirates airlines were lobbying to get geneva airport expanded to fit a380 capabilities because they already have or project having that scale of volume on their dubai - geneva service.

somehow i doubt this is about tourism

LastInLine
Mar 15, 2006

Why stay in the Cape when you can be in the WAVE?



Fun Shoe

Pocket posted:

sweden is an amazing country. it's also easy to understand how people get them confused if they are illiterate.
its really difficult to fully grasp the depths of american ignorance about the rest of the world without being completely immersed in it. that is to say you just cant imagine how few americans give any gently caress what happens outside of america and how little giving no fucks impacts them. for most of us the rest of the world just doesnt exist so why learn anything about it at all?

duTrieux.
Oct 9, 2003



LastInLine posted:

its really difficult to fully grasp the depths of american ignorance about the rest of the world without being completely immersed in it. that is to say you just cant imagine how few americans give any gently caress what happens outside of america and how little giving no fucks impacts them. for most of us the rest of the world just doesnt exist so why learn anything about it at all?

vOv
Feb 8, 2014



there are two things that europeans hate more than anything else: racism and the roma

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005



"You Americans are so politically correct. You do not understand our European ways"

*throws banana at black football players*

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Pocket
Aug 27, 2006



i think european countries have avoided that extreme american myopia only because until recently they were threatened by or at war with or invaded by their neighbours and then participation in the eu made avoiding happenings outside of the borders unavoidable. also europeans love their nationalism and a massive part of that is about how superior they are to their lovely inbred neighbours.

FrozenVent posted:

somehow i doubt this is about tourism

there are many business links, it's hard to explain how geneva is fills up with wealthy arabs during the summer, some will even fly over their favourite car, so it's common to see plates from the emirates on mclaren mercedes or custom lambos. the city courts this clientele because they often have their family offices based in geneva and happen to spend a lot of money during their stay, along with the chinese they are big spending tourists. the swiss like money, they don't ever let race or ethics get in the way of that.

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