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TheMcD posted:The greatest thing about South Africa I saw was when I was playing a Commune of France game, SA went syndicalist, requested entry into the Internationale, I granted it, and right after that they went "NO NEVER MIND WE CHANGED OUR MIND" and left again. It was so loving stupid that it ended up being brilliant. I played a game as Russia (or maybe it was Japan) where Transamur was traded for an alliance, which the Russians broke literally the next day. It made total sense-"Why the hell would we help you fight the Chinese? We just wanted Vladivostok back you idiots. Dibs on Sakhalin when you inevitably crash and burn." Also Chief, the thread title's got my curious as to when and where Woody's gonna show up. EDIT James Garfield posted:It looks like Portugal has to complain when they demand Angola, then Germany makes Göring resign and if they pick the leftist replacement he can go syndicalist. Lots of random events for three nations and some are unlikely. Honestly, Goering being arrested/executed is the most reasonable outcome. This is a German colony trying to start a war on its own with a European nation. Can you imagine if the Viceroy of India had threatened to invade Goa and never told London about it? Kavak fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Feb 6, 2015 |
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Feb 6, 2015 04:29
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TheMcD posted:The greatest thing about South Africa I saw was when I was playing a Commune of France game, SA went syndicalist, requested entry into the Internationale, I granted it, and right after that they went "NO NEVER MIND WE CHANGED OUR MIND" and left again. It was so loving stupid that it ended up being brilliant. In a similar vein is when SA says "Hey Entente, we want back in." and the Entente thinks about it for a little bit then says "Eh, naaahhh", like they afford to refuse allies or something.
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Feb 6, 2015 06:19
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Kavak posted:Honestly, Goering being arrested/executed is the most reasonable outcome. This is a German colony trying to start a war on its own with a European nation. Can you imagine if the Viceroy of India had threatened to invade Goa and never told London about it? All too easily.
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Feb 9, 2015 10:54
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Goa was a Portuguese colony.
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Feb 9, 2015 17:24
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If you're curious about how a syndicalist society might actually function, I'd recommend checking out 'The Dispossessed', by Ursula Le Guin. It's a sci-fi novel set on a world that had a successful anarcho-syndicalist revolution 200 years previously, and goes into a lot of detail into the society that developed as a result. Le Guin is an anarcho-communist (a tendency very closely related to syndicalism, with a lot of overlap), so I was worried it would be a utopian political fanfiction about how awesome and perfect the glorious syndicalist society makes everything, but she's never been one to pull punches, even when it comes to positions she supports, so it's actually a very balanced view that goes into some of the problems such a society could end up having. It's an amazing novel, it really gets you thinking. It tries to ask what exactly makes a utopia a utopia, and what makes a dystopia a dystopia - for that matter, what makes a society 'authoritarian' or 'democratic'? Is the anarcho-syndicalist society more free than the capitalist one, because the syndicalists have no prisons or laws and everyone is free to do whatever work they please and live however and wherever they please while always being guaranteed housing and a minimum standard of living? Or is it less free than the capitalist one, because peer pressure, public shame, and collective passive-aggression result in a very rigid social order even though there isn't actually a central government around to enforce it? Does the social order still count as authoritarian if it's only there because the majority of the people want it to be, rather than because it's being forcibly imposed on them? Hell, what is a government? Does a federation of anarchist collectives count as a 'state' when it begins to develop a bureaucracy and a formalized system for the division of labor, even if it's all self-organized and leaderless? Is the anarchist society a paradise where people are free to live to their full potential, or a living hell where the institutions of syndicalist union democracy have led to a tyranny by majority that viciously attacks anyone who deviates too far from the norm? Or is it both? Neither? Anyway, it's a good book, and is one of the better fictional depictions of syndicalism/anarchism in action (I use the two terms interchangeably because there has always been a shitload of overlap between the two; anarcho-syndicalism is still by far the largest anarchist tendency and was historically the most influential).
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Feb 11, 2015 06:55
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Mister Bates posted:Le Guin is an anarcho-communist (a tendency very closely related to syndicalism, with a lot of overlap), so I was worried it would be a utopian political fanfiction about how awesome and perfect the glorious syndicalist society makes everything, but she's never been one to pull punches, even when it comes to positions she supports, so it's actually a very balanced view that goes into some of the problems such a society could end up having. On the other hand, if I recall correctly, it wasn't the syndicalists mowing down protestors with machineguns.
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Feb 11, 2015 07:02
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Mister Bates posted:If you're curious about how a syndicalist society might actually function, I'd recommend checking out 'The Dispossessed', by Ursula Le Guin. It's a sci-fi novel set on a world that had a successful anarcho-syndicalist revolution 200 years previously, and goes into a lot of detail into the society that developed as a result. Le Guin is an anarcho-communist (a tendency very closely related to syndicalism, with a lot of overlap), so I was worried it would be a utopian political fanfiction about how awesome and perfect the glorious syndicalist society makes everything, but she's never been one to pull punches, even when it comes to positions she supports, so it's actually a very balanced view that goes into some of the problems such a society could end up having. Slightly off topic, but someone asked me recently too for an example of a post-gender society and The Left Hand of Darkness by Le Guin is a really good example of that as well that is not overly utopian and rather nuanced in its portrayal. Le Guin rocks is what I'm saying.
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Feb 11, 2015 07:17
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Mister Bates posted:Le Guin is an anarcho-communist (a tendency very closely related to syndicalism, with a lot of overlap), Holy poo poo, I thought anarco-communism was a thing thought up by Ken McLeod for The Cassini Division. It's a real thing? 
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Feb 11, 2015 09:27
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Captain Bravo posted:Holy poo poo, I thought anarco-communism was a thing thought up by Ken McLeod for The Cassini Division. It's a real thing? Lots of things that might seem hyper-fringe or made up at first glance turn out to be very real with serious proponents. Atheistic Christianity, National Socialist Hinduism, the Time Cube. You can stick anarchism on a number of political and social movements and I guarantee that most will have a handful of serious followers.
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Feb 11, 2015 09:51
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Sure. The official goal of various types of communist ideology is to end up with a society that doesn't need or have a state. Leninist-style 'Vanguard Parties' who know what the people want better than the people themselves were an innovation way back in the 1910's and 1920's. It was once thought that the 'dictatorship of the proletariat' would be rule by the workers, rather than by a party of forward-thinkers who weren't limited by "false conciousness" etc. Of course, when people (myself included) think of communism nowadays, it is absolutely the kind of authoritarian regimes you saw in the USSR and its sattelite states, or in Maoist China etc. Turns out, replacing the old elite with a new, supposedly-revolutionary elite isn't a good way to abolish hierarchies. Who'da thunk it. Caustic Soda fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 09:52
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Kavak posted:Goa was a Portuguese colony. Fashoda was a French protectorate. Briefly.
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Feb 11, 2015 10:26
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Captain Bravo posted:Holy poo poo, I thought anarco-communism was a thing thought up by Ken McLeod for The Cassini Division. It's a real thing? That and Mutualism are essentially what anarchism is. It's not like the fringe of a fringe movement, that say http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-Anarchism is.
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Feb 11, 2015 13:55
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Fashoda is sort of the opposite of Mittelafrika in that the colonial actors were fairly reasonable about it and the mother countries were the ones acting like clowns.
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Feb 11, 2015 14:39
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Captain Bravo posted:Holy poo poo, I thought anarco-communism was a thing thought up by Ken McLeod for The Cassini Division. It's a real thing? Communism and anarchism were pretty hard to tell apart until the 1870s; you had some internal arguments, but the two ideological tendencies were part of the same movement, used the same flags, etc. The first major leftist split came in the wake of the failure of the Paris Commune in 1871 and was between the faction led by Marx (Marxists, obviously) and the faction led by Mikhail Bakunin (anarchists and mutualists); prior to that, 'anarchist' and 'communist' were used interchangeably by a lot of people. Even after that, the anarchist communism of people like Bakunin and Peter Kropotkin, and the anarchist syndicalism of people like Rudolf Rocker and Emma Goldman, has been a pretty major force in the anarchist movement. The three times anarchists have actually attempted to seize and control territory on a large scale (the Ukrainian Free Territory, the Shinmin Autonomous Region, and the Spanish Revolution), it was mostly anarcho-syndicalists or anarcho-communists. You've got minor little fringe-of-a-fringe groups like the 'national anarchists' and 'anarcho-capitalists', but anarchism as a movement has historically always been firmly on the left end of the political spectrum. Hell, a bunch of the people killed by Stalin in his purges were anarchists who had fought in coalition with the Bolsheviks during the Russian Revolution; there had even been a couple of prominent Russian anarchist figures serving as generals in the Red Army. Anarchists were very enthusiastic about the October Revolution when it initially happened, and for the first few years of the revolution and the civil war the Russian anarchist movement pretty much universally fought alongside the Reds (although the Reds broke that alliance and wiped out most of the organized anarchist groups when they had become strong enough not to need them anymore). Even today, you see a lot of overlap between socialist groups and anarchist groups - they tend to hate each other these days, as Marxist-Leninists now have a long and proven history of betraying and murdering anarchists at the earliest available opportunity, but their politics are still similar enough on paper that you tend to get both groups coming to the same rallies and protests, agitating for the same causes, recruiting from the same social groups, etc. Sometimes you even get them in the same organization; the modern IWW is a weird mix of anarchists, syndicalists, left-communists, and Marxists (Marxists are, in my experience, the least numerous of the four groups, but they're definitely there). e: incidentally, that's why the  smiley has a red-and-black flag and a picture of Kropotkin on it.
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Feb 11, 2015 15:55
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Captain Bravo posted:Holy poo poo, I thought anarco-communism was a thing thought up by Ken McLeod for The Cassini Division. It's a real thing? You've got me beat. I thought it was just a Monty Python joke for the longest time.
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Feb 11, 2015 17:39
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TildeATH posted:You've got me beat. I thought it was just a Monty Python joke for the longest time. The main reason almost no one has heard of it today is that the main centers of the anarcho-syndicalist mass movement were in Spain, Italy, and Germany, and you may recall those as being places that fell to fascism in the early 20th century. A shitload of syndicalists died in the Holocaust, or in Franco's purges of Spain (at least 250,000 Spanish syndicalists and anarchists were killed after Franco took over). By the time the war was over, the heart of the syndicalist movement had been sent to the gas chambers, and it's hard to reassert influence when the majority of your former adherents are dead. The rise of the USSR and the defeat of Hitler also gave the Marxist-Leninists a huge propaganda advantage over any other leftist tendency, so they attracted far more new recruits than any other group, and most of the people who might have become syndicalists in the 1920s or 30s instead became Marxists in the 1940s and 50s. Don't get me wrong, syndicalists are still around (they're still a fairly potent force in the Spanish political scene, and are a constant, if minor, presence in much of Latin American politics), but they've never even come close to regaining the influence they used to have, and a good 90% of the world's population is probably totally unaware they even exist.
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Feb 11, 2015 18:19
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Chapter Four: A Window to the Pacific (mid-September-Late October 1937)  quote:FROM: AIR COMMAND DENVER  quote:FROM: BENJAMIN FRANKLIN CORPS   quote:FROM: AIR COMMAND DENVER  quote:FROM: TAEF   quote:FROM: LOWER MEXICO COMMAND  quote:FROM: CENTRAL COMMAND  quote:FROM: REED  quote:FROM: LOWER MEXICO COMMAND   quote:FROM: BENJAMIN FRANKLIN CORPS  quote:FROM: AIR COMMAND DENVER  quote:FROM: BENJAMIN FRANKLIN CORPS  quote:FROM: AIR COMMAND HOUSTON  quote:FROM: GROUP DE BOMBARDMENT  quote:
 quote:FROM: REED  quote:FROM: MARSHALL  quote:FROM: HEMINGWAY  quote:FROM: CENTRAL COMMAND  quote:FROM: CENTRAL COMMAND  quote:FROM: GUERIN PARIS  quote:THE CROATS HAVE EVEN BEGUN TO THROW OFF HUNGARY AS HUNGARY DID TO AUSTRIA BUT I AM HONESTLY A BIT PUZZLED WITH THE HUNGARIAN REACTION SINCE THE SERBS CONTROL ANY PATH THE HUNGARIANS MIGHT USE TO RECONQUER ZAGREB. THE BALKANS ARE ETERNALLY BIZARRE. THE MORE THINGS CHANGE THE MORE THEY STAY THE SAME.  quote:ONE UNFAVORABLE RESULT OF THAT CIVIL WAR IS THE ASCENDANCY OF THE NEW COMMONWEALTH WITHIN MITTELEUROPA. BEFORE WE MIGHT HAVE HOPED THE AUSTRIAN EMPIRE WOULD STAY OUT OF A CONFLICT BETWEEN THE INTERNATIONALE AND MITTELEUROPA BUT NOW SWATHES OF THEIR FORMER TERRITORY HAVE BEEN INTEGRATED FULLY INTO THE MITTELEUROPA SYSTEM.  quote:IT IS ALSO DANGEROUS IN THAT THE PAPISTS IN NORTHERN ITALY NOW HAVE A MUCH GREATER CHANCE OF WINNING IN THEIR CONFLICT WITH THE AUSTRIANS. THE BALANCE OF POWER IN ITALY IS ALREADY SKEWED IN FAVOR OF THE NORTH AND I AM CONCERNED FOR NAPOLI IF VENETIAS RESOURCES ARE ALSO SET AGAINST THEM. I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE MANY OF SICILIAN AND NEAPOLITAN DESCENT IN YOUR CITIES. PERHAPS AN EXPEDITIONARY FORCE THAT RECRUITS ITALIAN AMERICANS TO BUILD CULTURAL LINKS BETWEEN ITALY AND AMERICA SIMILAR TO THOSE BETWEEN OUR COMMUNE AND YOURS. OF COURSE THIS IS ALL THEORETICAL AND DEPENDENT UPON THE EVENTUAL DEFEAT OF THE ENTENTE.  quote:IM ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT THE WAR THAT HAS BROKEN OUT IN CENTRAL ASIA IF ONLY OUT OF CONCERN FOR THOSE CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE. IT IS NOT AS THOUGH THE INTERNATIONALE OR EVEN MITTELEUROPA HAS MUCH OF A STRATEGIC INTEREST IN THAT REGION.  quote:I AM HOWEVER INTERESTED IN THE SITUATION ON HISPANIOLA. OUR CONTACTS AMONG THE HAITIANS TELL US THAT BOTH SIDES IN THE WAR ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN TOTAL VICTORY AND WITHOUT THE UNITED STATES TO ENFORCE THEIR ECONOMIC WILL, ONE OR THE OTHER WILL RULE THE ENTIRE ISLAND. I WORRY ABOUT THE CARIBBEAN FEDERATION GETTING INVOLVED IN THIS AND EXPANDING ENTENTE INFLUENCE BY SUPPORTING ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER. WE DO KNOW THAT THERE IS SIGNIFICANT RESENTMENT TOWARDS GEORGETOWN AND OTTAWA ON THE HAITIAN SIDE. DO YOU HAVE ANY INTELLIGENCE ON HOW THE DOMINICAN SIDE FEELS ABOUT THEM? I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING BACK FROM YOU. CONGRATULATIONS ONCE AGAIN ON THE COMBINED SYNDICATES SUCCESS IN MEXICO. 5 techs!
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Feb 11, 2015 19:56
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What's "Austrian Terror"?
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Feb 11, 2015 21:54
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Rincewind posted:What's "Austrian Terror"? The Civil Wars spawn these a lot, they raise the dissent and cause some damage maybe, I can't remember exactly. It's random and meant to represent atrocities like Red and White Terrors. (The USA has Red, Dixie and Federalist ones.)
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Feb 11, 2015 22:13
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"Terror" events are random dissent hits to represent the government cracking down on the populace in case they're helping the other side. EDIT: "During ongoing civil war some of our commanders started to use rather doubtfull methods to permanently supress civilian population suspicious of helping our mortal enemies. Such policies, even if looks drastical are neccesary in these dark times." Four mistakes, god drat.
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Feb 11, 2015 22:16
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Is the Georgian Line something that you can go around by going through New England?
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Feb 11, 2015 22:57
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Zeroisanumber posted:Is the Georgian Line something that you can go around by going through New England? You deal with the Georgian Line by telling it to go gently caress itself and smashing through it anyway. Level 2 forts mean pretty much nothing compared to what you should have as an advantage when you take on Canada. But yes, if you wished to, you could go around it, then have to deal with it anyway going into the two VPs on the west side.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:07
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Just a minor complaint, but in some of the earlier screenshots the text was partially obscured by one of those giant lists that decisions sometimes have when you hover your mouse over them. It's probably too late to fix those, but for future reference.
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Feb 11, 2015 23:09
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TheMcD posted:You deal with the Georgian Line by telling it to go gently caress itself and smashing through it anyway. Level 2 forts mean pretty much nothing compared to what you should have as an advantage when you take on Canada. The most important parts of Canada are approached through New England which is a more narrow corridor. The Prairie area is kinda dumb to fortify because you only need Winnipeg and Vancouver which are on the border or can be approached via PSA territory in the case of Vancouver. All the industry and victory points in Ontario and Quebec are not covered by it. An event chain for the Entente to pay for forts from Hamilton to Hartford would make things a bit more challenging for the CSA. Glenn Zimmerman posted:Just a minor complaint, but in some of the earlier screenshots the text was partially obscured by one of those giant lists that decisions sometimes have when you hover your mouse over them. It's probably too late to fix those, but for future reference. I'll keep an eye out for it, thanks. csm141 fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Feb 11, 2015 |
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Feb 11, 2015 23:29
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Chapter Five: Plutarco's Redoubt (Late October-Early December 1937) Agustin, I hope Paris is still treating you well. Things over here are proceeding well and I will be sure to inform you as soon as we are ready to return everybody home. It's hard to believe that it has been only a year and a half since Calles betrayed us. Back then it felt like the work of our lives had been lost forever, dear Zapata gone and his legacy with him. I had resigned myself to a life of exile in Paris, in the hopes that perhaps victory in Europe could help the Internationale win back our Mexico. I must admit I never expected this. How surreal it is to cheer as Americans land in Veracruz, to see American army officers who once would have given everything to put a rope around Pancho's neck now discussing strategy with him.  I am impressed by how totally the Americans have committed to the liberation of Mexico. They of course are mainly involved in order to gain what Calles seized back. Now that Phoenix has fallen, they have reestablished control in all of their former territories. The American people there are happy to be free of Mexican control. It will not matter to us, as borders mean little between members of the Internationale.  Many of the American men involved in this are little more than militiamen, not having yet had a chance to return home since the civil war. You can see in their weary faces that their spirit for revolution is almost tapped. Some of them have more or less given up, stopped in their tracks, aware that more professional units are closing in on Plutarco. They are ready to go home. Their duty is done and I am grateful to them, as I wager their struggle has already shifted the global odds in our favor.  I'm sure that the British under the command of Comrade Rose are even more ready to go home. It has been a year since the American Revolution began, and these English volunteers have been away from home the entire time! They've journeyed from New York to Monterrey. Incredible.  The Mexican army is beginning to recognize the hopelessness of their situation. In the beginning, they were fueled by the confidence gained by defeating the Americans in the field last year. That swagger has left them, and they are more than willing to lay down their arms and go home to their families.   As I write this, Calles and the rest of the conspirators have fortified Ciudad Juarez for their last stand. Our American and French comrades have been flying air missions daily to disrupt their operations there. The American armies are moving into position for the final assault. I am going to be there to see that Calles receives his due.  I am currently in the company of two American divisions in Guadalajara, having just traveled here from Mexico City. We are moving north towards Ciudad Juarez right now. It is appropriate that the Americans will help us dispose of another tyrant in the city named after Benito.  Some of the names that we have heard in Paris are going to be involved in the final assault on Ciudad Juarez. I have already met General Marshall and Harry Haywood while here, both highly intelligent and interesting men. I'm sure you remember Hemingway's speech at the Second Congress. He is also going to be involved. It is our hope that the overwhelming force will convince Calles to surrender.  No more Mexican lives ought to be lost because of his treachery.  This leads me to the true purpose of this letter. It is time to begin considering how to manage the return of legitimate socialist government to Mexico.  The Americans are currently administrating our territories while we reorganize and reestablish contact with party members who have been driven underground.  They have promised us and France that we will be handed control as soon as Calles is dealt with.  The only terms are that Mexico will return the territories taken from the United States and that we will accede to the military protocols of the Internationale, like the Americans did a few months ago.  The regional party leaders we have been able to find and clear of collaboration have gotten together and elected me as acting President, to be confirmed as soon as the Chamber of Deputies can be reconvened. They as well as I have also agreed that you ought to be the President of the Chamber. I have taken the liberty of contacting the Communal Navy and organizing transit for you and the others from Le Havre to Veracruz. Speak with our ambassador and she will give you what you need. I look forward to working with you and will be in Veracruz when you arrive. Now I must bid you farewell, old friend. I have an execution to attend. Vincente Lombardo Toledano El Presidente del Estados Unidos Mexicanos
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Feb 14, 2015 22:26
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Weird that it didn't give Mexico the Syndicalist version of their flag though.
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Feb 14, 2015 23:14
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Long live the revolution. Time to liberate the PSA, now. And then Canada (which is actually pretty easy).
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Feb 14, 2015 23:16
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Jeoh posted:Long live the revolution. Time to liberate the PSA, now. And then Canada (which is actually pretty easy). No and then about it. The Pacific States are a proud member of the Entente.
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Feb 14, 2015 23:21
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Chief Savage Man posted:No and then about it. The Pacific States are a proud member of the Entente. Jesus what would that be, like a 3,500 mile long front?
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Feb 14, 2015 23:54
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Jesus what would that be, like a 3,500 mile long front? Who needs two fronts when you have one covering two cardinal directions?
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Feb 15, 2015 00:00
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Drone posted:Weird that it didn't give Mexico the Syndicalist version of their flag though. I think flag changes in Europa Engine were purely event-based. Separate flags for different regimes weren't a thing until Victoria 2.
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Feb 15, 2015 00:05
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Gantolandon posted:I think flag changes in Europa Engine were purely event-based. Separate flags for different regimes weren't a thing until Victoria 2. Yeah, though it wouldn't be hard to write decisions for flag changes that the AI would take.
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Feb 15, 2015 00:12
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We should have put Pancho Villa in charge  .
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Feb 15, 2015 00:18
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Gantolandon posted:I think flag changes in Europa Engine were purely event-based. Separate flags for different regimes weren't a thing until Victoria 2. That's a bummer. 
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Feb 15, 2015 00:24
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It would be neat but it definitely is possible to do via event or decision or even savegame editing. I'd throw in a decision to revert them to the original flag but I tried adding a custom event and couldn't get the game to load up.
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Feb 15, 2015 00:31
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It's definitely possible to set which name/flag a nation gets when released by certain types of countries. Like if the Soviets annex and then release Finland, it becomes something like the Finnish People's Republic or something. Whereas if anyone else does it, it's just plain Finland.
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Feb 15, 2015 01:04
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Chief Savage Man posted:It would be neat but it definitely is possible to do via event or decision or even savegame editing. I'd throw in a decision to revert them to the original flag but I tried adding a custom event and couldn't get the game to load up. That sucks. What about just replacing the file for the standard/current Mexican flag with the syndicalist one and then just write something about how it took some time to find the old syndie flags as Calles had used them for bedstuffing? I assume the game wouldn't notice. Of course, I have no experience with how this engine works.
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Feb 15, 2015 01:05
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Drone posted:It's definitely possible to set which name/flag a nation gets when released by certain types of countries. Like if the Soviets annex and then release Finland, it becomes something like the Finnish People's Republic or something. Whereas if anyone else does it, it's just plain Finland. Well, that's not exactly right. Communist Country and Country are two different tags, made that way to allow the OTL BRD/DDR divide for every mainland European country in vanilla Darkest Hour. Because theyre two different tags, using that method to deal with flag problems would lead to a lot of events breaking if they were to be implemented into Kaiserreich. Only a few are implemented (German Empire vs. German Union and for some reason Socialist Republic of Canada vs. Canada - is there some sort of civil war possible here?). A decision/event would be much easier to do.
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Feb 15, 2015 01:17
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I suppose that the next point of order before World War II begins is for the Syndintern to expand Centroamerica all the way to the Panama Canal, yes? I forget if Centroamerica still exists in this game or not, though. In either case, Germany doesn't seem to be looking for a fight with France just yet, so assuming that Mitteleuropa doesn't decide to crash the party, the first half of WWII will just be Entente vs. Internationale.
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Feb 15, 2015 01:21
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I don't like the Syndie Mexican flag anyway- doesn't Mexico take its flag really seriously compared to America where we plaster it on everything?
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Feb 15, 2015 01:30
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