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The rolling advance of supported infantry attacks is somehow more satisfying to me than massive encirclements. It's so methodical.
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May 18, 2015 00:44
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50 years in the future, people will read about this war and boggle over the casualty figures.
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May 18, 2015 01:15
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Zeroisanumber posted:50 years in the future, people will read about this war and boggle over the casualty figures. All those horses. 
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May 18, 2015 02:02
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Depending on what part of the world you're in, I imagine many of those horses are other draft animals, like oxen, water buffalo, camels, elephants, etc.
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May 18, 2015 02:11
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Kavak posted:Depending on what part of the world you're in, I imagine many of those horses are other draft animals, like oxen, water buffalo, camels, elephants, etc. Speaking of which, I'm going to be very, very disappointed if Chief doesn't build at least one elephant cavalry division.
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May 18, 2015 02:25
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Zeroisanumber posted:50 years in the future, people will read about this war and boggle over the casualty figures. It's like the Soviet Union's IRL WW2 casualties, but on both sides 
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May 18, 2015 02:28
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Well, to be honest those numbers are those killed, crippled, MIA/deserted, and finally, injured enough so that they had to be taken off the line, but perhaps returned to battle later (since combat hospitals are a thing that return casualties to MP... I think). Still, those numbers are freaking huge, battle after battle. Reminds me of my Qing games where a unified China is.... well, it wrecks face with near infinite MP reserves and a ton of troops.
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May 18, 2015 03:14
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Well, it will all be worth it when the Chinese people are ruled by a Totalist puppet state.
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May 18, 2015 04:24
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This is also why, among broken poo poo, playing Japan is suffering in Kaiserreich. Because this is what you'll be doing at some point.
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May 18, 2015 04:54
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Gamerofthegame posted:This is also why, among broken poo poo, playing Japan is suffering in Kaiserreich. I had a stupidly fun and successful run as democratic Japan in Kaiserreich not long ago and it was pretty great. Managed to get wars for all of China free from events, then joined the Entente and took the war global. Ended up invading and liberating Britain and controlling the largest navy in the world by 1948 or so. This was in the previous version of Kaiserreich though, I dunno how it would be with the newest patch.
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May 18, 2015 09:13
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Drone posted:I had a stupidly fun and successful run as democratic Japan in Kaiserreich not long ago and it was pretty great. Managed to get wars for all of China free from events, then joined the Entente and took the war global. Ended up invading and liberating Britain and controlling the largest navy in the world by 1948 or so. I did similarly as them in my first ever KR WC, but I didn't join any alliances, I just conquered and conquered. China was (predictably) by far the toughest enemy, because by the time I got to anyone else I had Chinese IC and manpower to help me fight. Until I reached the AUS at least, because they'd won within about a year and I didn't get to fighting North America until like the late 50s, at which point Fortress America was basically uncrackable. I dropped about two dozen nukes on them before I assaulted and they were STILL a vicious nut to crack.
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May 19, 2015 23:45
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Having done the old spam infantry (with perhaps armoured cars and engineers as brigades later) a few times, then played Nat. France which is very manpower limited, I've decided that unbrigaded infantry are actually less efficient than fully brigaded infantry with artillery. Especially for any country that is more limited by manpower than by IC, or when there are enough units to fill the front line. An infantry division with ART+SP-ART has over double the offensive power and (depending on doctrine) slightly to significantly better defensive stats. Costs 2x the IC and 1.5x the manpower but virtually all but a couple countries can easily run down to 0 manpower in a grinding war. Double arty infantry can easily take on 2-3x the number in unbrigaded infantry while similarly inflicting 2-4x the casualties. Corvinus fucked around with this message at 01:10 on May 20, 2015 |
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May 20, 2015 01:08
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I'd also consider that masses of unbrigaded infantry can run into limits when it comes to command limits and the leader pool.
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May 20, 2015 01:19
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Part Twelve: June-September 1945 As time goes on, I start to get more and more lazy about avoiding stacking penalties and just start cramming as many troops as possible into each battle. The sooner I can surround and take Beijing, the sooner I can start to spread these troops out in the north.   In Longnan, we debut the Bhartiya Air Force, using close air support aircraft for the first time. The main reason I chose this is because it seems appropriate to have hordes of Sturmovik like aircraft.    I should have had Bose commanding this army.  I'm starting to run out of things to say about these battles. Like I said before, it's a formulaic approach of enveloping attacks and looking for the best places to do it.   Again, the blocked boundaries work to our advantage as I'm able to make a deeper advance into southern China and not worry about Geiju.  The Afghans and Tibetans have begun to put some of their troops into the fight. I don't bother putting them under military control because I don't need them for coastal defense duty like I do the Burmese.   To the north of that, the Qing do score a victory because of my inattention.  Even further north, with Datong under control, I'm finally in position to make the final advance on Beijing.  We're rolling forward with some good momentum, moving through tough mountainous terrain towards the more palatable hills and plains of the coastal regions.  The center region is proving to be the toughest nut to crack, so I make a move to attack it from the north and possibly create a pocket.  The target of that potential pocket is the Qing salient in Longnan.  In my zeal to create that pocket, I overextend a small army in Tianshoui. While I am doing what I ought to by engaging the army attacking that province, I do not make enough progress to force the Qing to call off the attack.  The battle of Longnan ends somewhat inconclusively because half of the salient moved to Tianshoui.  That group that moved out goes after the tired small army and some inferior Afghan units.   Now the northern portion of my pincer is in Xian. Protecting that province takes on some importance, and so holding Tongguan to the east takes on more importance.      After the troubles around Datong and Jining, I'm finally ready to capture Beijing. The city falls and the Qing lose a lot of men. Now I'll be able to start advancing down the coast and the Qing don't have much ability to resist.      While one pocket in the north falls, I try my best to create another in the center, but my lack of mobility allows a lot of Qing to escape.   A lot of Qing are destroyed in Tianshoui and Ankang though, so while I didn't bag all of them, I do open up the center as well.  We're headed into the twilight of the conflict, even if we have a lot of territory left to cover.
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May 20, 2015 06:30
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You're pretty much out of the mountains and deserts now, aren't you CSM?
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May 20, 2015 08:14
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So how are supply line drawn in these games? Like obviously forming a pocket is nice but sometimes in grog games certain places will be 'sources' in which supplies magically appear so can never be starved out. Yet cutting them off can lead to the whole rest of a country becoming one big 'pocket' despite, presumably, containing a huge chunk of a nation's hypothetical industry. Other times provinces can be connected to supply by the most convoluted chain so there's no point in partial encirclements or anything. Do you need to stockpile or make depots near potential fronts or is that represented by the 'org.' or whatever stats the units have?
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May 20, 2015 14:47
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Supply originates from your capital, fullstop. If there is a land route to the province from your capital that you or an ally control (I don't think neutrals allow passage) then the province is in supply. If there isn't a land route, then you have to supply the province with a convoy from the sea or it simply isn't in supply. Units not in supply don't regenerate their "health" (as fast) and resource-using units like not-infantry start to blow chunks. It doesn't do too much, but it does hurt. The main thing pocketing actually does is prevent the enemy from retreating; a unit can only run away to an owned/ally hex, not just an empty one. If you create a pocket and then punch the guys in the dick hard enough they straight up disappear, which is the only reliable way of actually taking out units and making progress.
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May 20, 2015 15:27
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This also means that you want to encircle the enemy's capital but not actually take it, since that makes literally everything they have go out of supply.
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May 20, 2015 15:40
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Cerebral Bore posted:This also means that you want to encircle the enemy's capital but not actually take it, since that makes literally everything they have go out of supply. Didn't that get patched out somehow?
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May 20, 2015 16:27
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Drone posted:Didn't that get patched out somehow? Yeah, did that as Germany in one game and France still had supply.
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May 20, 2015 20:07
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Supply flowing from VP provinces would make more sense.
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May 20, 2015 20:25
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Drone posted:Didn't that get patched out somehow? It definitely works in my game at least. Dunno if I've got my patches up to date, though.
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May 20, 2015 20:43
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i am liu shifu
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May 21, 2015 22:24
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Drone posted:Didn't that get patched out somehow? Kind of. So long as the enemy has access to a port, they can still receive supply. However, if you were to conquer every major sea province of China, you could technically turn it into a giant pocket devoid of supply so long as Beijing was surrounded and not conquered .
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May 21, 2015 22:56
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Gamerofthegame posted:Supply originates from your capital, fullstop. If there is a land route to the province from your capital that you or an ally control (I don't think neutrals allow passage) then the province is in supply. If there isn't a land route, then you have to supply the province with a convoy from the sea or it simply isn't in supply. Units not in supply don't regenerate their "health" (as fast) and resource-using units like not-infantry start to blow chunks. It doesn't do too much, but it does hurt. Not having sufficient supplies also confers a pretty significant combat penalty even to non-resource-using units. Note that you can also use Transport Planes to supply cut-off provinces from the air, although supporting a force of any significant size this way requires massive numbers of aircraft and you'll have to pull off some real Berlin Airlift style poo poo.
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May 22, 2015 01:38
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Part Thirteen: September 1945-March 1946 The fall of Beijing opens up the northern front for our advance.    The advance in the north rolls south as if the Qing aren't even there.   The progress in the south is also good, as the front moves past the tough terrain of Yunnan province.  The Qing do have a little bit of life in the center, but their penetration backfires as they're cut off and destroyed in short order.   With that pocket destroyed, I'm finally able to put together the same type of organized and methodical advance in the center as I have in the north and south.   With that section under control, it's just a matter of time and numbers now.   The Qing have been reduced to about a third of what they had when I attacked. The terrain is better than where we started, but the probable last bastions of Qing resistance on the coast are a bit tougher. By that point, I don't think the Qing will be capable of supplying their huge army anyway.    The Qing are already having trouble keeping up with reinforcements, so each number on the map really should be considered as twice what the Qing actually have in play.   In Changsha, we start to see divisions at minimum strength.   Now we see entire armies at minimum strength. I wonder why these aren't just disappearing. I guess because the organization is so poor that they retreat almost instantly?  The fight for Shanghai is not nearly as brutal as the one we fought as Mongolia, with the Qing already broken down and beaten.  Fast forward. The Qing are totally broken and what remains of their army is trapped in three coastal cities.  Amazingly, the province with the least divisions probably has the most actual fighting strength.  This is probably about nine hundred thousand versus two thousand, assuming all the divisions are at minimum strength (50).  And last but not least, the hordes of Qing militia in Zhangzhou go down.   After months of slow and steady advance, we finally wipe out what used to be the largest army in the world.  The Empire is dead, and Chairman Bose has successfully defeated his largest continental rival.    China and India stand together, and the Japanese occupied territories continue to offend by their presence. Will they be the next target of the largest army in the world? Or will it be the Russian Empire to the north? The hostile Entente rules North America and Australia; the German Empire, ejected from the Pacific and Africa, still menaces the Internationale; and to be quite honest, can Bose's regime truly co-exist with the anarchist ways of his European 'comrades'? Only time will tell who will be next.   (a lot of people died) to be continued _____________________________ This LP is going on hiatus for a bit, as I'm going out of the country for a few weeks. Expect Act Three to begin in about three or four weeks.
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May 22, 2015 06:40
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Kinda surprised there's no syndicalist China tag, but I guess all the free tags have been used up.
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May 22, 2015 07:37
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Is it possible to take over another country and not puppet it off? Like, with enough money and men and bullets, could you just take over the entire world without having to split off each chunk you conquer?
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May 22, 2015 08:13
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Captain Bravo posted:Is it possible to take over another country and not puppet it off? Like, with enough money and men and bullets, could you just take over the entire world without having to split off each chunk you conquer? Sure, you'll just have to have enough manpower to continuously pump out garrison units to keep dissent down in the conquered provinces. And you will be using up IC pretty inefficiently compared to its use by a puppet state. In my democratic Japan Kaiserreich game, I was maximum Open Society and didn't really need garrison units at all to reduce partisan activity. I made them to garrison my beaches to prevent the AI from trying to stage a naval invasion, but that's about it.
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May 22, 2015 08:17
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Drone posted:Kinda surprised there's no syndicalist China tag, but I guess all the free tags have been used up. IIRC this is intentional, as originally the developers consciously wanted to avoid the real historical outcome of the PRC and emphasize the other possibilities. Similar to how forming the USSR is very unlikely, but even more so.
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May 22, 2015 08:31
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So exactly how many people died?
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May 22, 2015 08:34
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i81icu812 posted:So exactly how many people died? Total casualties look to be about 4.1 million Chinese, 1.7 million Indians. But that would include wounded and prisoners too. Oh, and about 2 million dead horses too, for what that's worth.
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May 22, 2015 13:04
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John Charity Spring posted:Total casualties look to be about 4.1 million Chinese, 1.7 million Indians. But that would include wounded and prisoners too. Oh, and about 2 million dead horses too, for what that's worth. Though that's over the entire campaign, meaning it also includes the Indian wars and whatever the Qing did to reunite all those other territories they don't start with. The only proper way to find out how many died in this war particularly would be to load a save from right before the war and do some comparisons.
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May 22, 2015 13:06
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TheMcD posted:Though that's over the entire campaign, meaning it also includes the Indian wars and whatever the Qing did to reunite all those other territories they don't start with. The only proper way to find out how many died in this war particularly would be to load a save from right before the war and do some comparisons. I was low-balling the 'casualties sustained' figures, on the assumption that neither Qing nor Bhartiya Commune would have lost that many of their own men to the enemy in the small wars (whereas 'casualties inflicted' would count entirely-destroyed enemy divisions and quickly inflates).
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May 22, 2015 13:27
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i81icu812 posted:So exactly how many people died? About 5 million casualties between the Qing and India, with 4 million of those being Chinese.
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May 22, 2015 13:48
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Meh, China's been through worse.
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May 24, 2015 01:12
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Mister Adequate posted:Meh, China's been through worse. Yeah. Those are roughly historical WWII numbers. Though I guess there is a chance for more Chinese to die fighting Japan.
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May 24, 2015 05:18
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Excerpt from Pied-Rouge: A Memoir by Claude Boulé The activities of the Red Foot Brigade must be understood in the context of Europe in 1941. By the summertime, we had not launched any attacks for four months and so the Imperial Police Force announced that they had 'defeated' us. In our day-to-day lives, we were able to sense the genuine belief among the people that they were telling the truth. Whether they were disappointed or glad was less clear. Whether the police truly believed we were gone was even less so.  We were not gone, of course. Some months after the Internationale began their bombing campaign, we received an update from our mainland contact. It contained a request to focus our efforts on intelligence-gathering. It didn't say much else, but it didn't need to. We knew what it meant: war was coming, and soon.  I was under no illusions about our role in all of this. Algeria was, at best, a secondary front in the great conflict that was coming our way. The eager philosophy of socialist politics gave way to the cold calculus of total war. The Imperial state seemed like an unstoppable entity to us, but they were only a blip on the radar of the great powers of Europe.    They were one of many forces arrayed against the Internationale. A true alliance between Algiers and Berlin was prevented by the bitterness of past conflict. Nonetheless, we assumed that if either the German or French empire found itself in combat with the Communal army, the other would seize the opportunity and create a major problem for Metropolitan France and the Internationale in general.  The situation in the western Mediterranean contributed to a general sense of tension. I woke up each morning expecting to see news of continental conflict. The threat of war hung like a specter over daily life in Algeria, as I'm sure it did everywhere else.  It was in this context that every bit of news was analyzed. The progress of the revolution was no longer measured in the number of people living in the free world, but rather how many divisions we were going to have in Europe.  And thus, when news trickled in of the Combined Syndicates' victory in North America, we wondered how many divisions they would be able to ship to Europe when the time came.   The American Red Army and its air arm were second only to the Commune's among socialist states, and so there was some reason to be hopeful.  But questions lingered. Would they be able to adequately protect the sea lanes between Western Europe and North America?  We had high hopes but tempered expectations for our American comrades.  It turned out that our hopes were not high enough.
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Jun 11, 2015 17:58
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Hey, we're back. 
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Jun 11, 2015 18:03
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Chief Savage Man posted:
Awwww yissss.
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Jun 11, 2015 18:04
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