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Drone posted:Might it make sense to display these in a basic, numerical +/- format showing the current net pleased/displeased rating? This block is kinda hard to read and parse. I want an element of mystery with regards to the numbers bc in an actual conference, the negotiators wouldn't be like "you've pleased me enough to hit the max, please go ahead and piss me off next time so that you can get China on board". I'll edit it to cancel out matching ones which will neaten it up a little bit.
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Oct 3, 2017 15:37
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Assigning point values of 1 to "slightly", 3 for "normal," and 5 for "greatly," and assigning positive values to "please" and negative values to "displease": Worth remembering that these values didn't start at "zero" so to speak. Don't know if you took that into account or not.
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Oct 3, 2017 16:31
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paragon1 posted:Worth remembering that these values didn't start at "zero" so to speak. Don't know if you took that into account or not. I did not, based on the fact that I have no way of knowing what those starting values might be.
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Oct 3, 2017 22:22
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I was too late for the vote, but that's not gonna stop me from using this joke: Tom, take it away.
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Oct 4, 2017 03:52
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:I did not, based on the fact that I have no way of knowing what those starting values might be. Their willingness to fight is described before the first conference post as few page back as very low, high, moderate, and so on.
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Oct 4, 2017 05:15
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Okay, because the next conference round is the last one and I don't want anybody to get confused, here is what is hopefully a more concise and readable summary of where everybody is at right this instant. Be aware that a +++ is not necessarily 3 times as significant as a + or 1.5 times as ++, its just an easier symbol to parse. +++/++/+ are greatly please/please/slightly please, and so on for - and the displeases. Canada (Very High): +++, --, -- National France (Moderate): --, -, - Republic of China (Very Low): +++, ++ India (Moderate): -, - United States (Moderate): ++, ++ Pacific States (High): ++, - South African Federation (Moderate): --, -- Indonesia (High): = Australasia (Moderate): ++, -, -
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Oct 4, 2017 05:46
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So no national French troops to liberate the homeland. Nice, now those clowns won't even have the barest claim to it.
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Oct 4, 2017 10:40
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They'll show up anyway, just so we can't form a new government that doesn't involve them out of spite. Canada is coming, the Americans are coming, Indonesia is coming, the rest are maybes. I think we can pull this off.
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Oct 4, 2017 10:55
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Kavak posted:
It's not simply a yes/no if they're coming or not, their disposition to us determines how much of their army they're willing to commit to us, so Canada will mobilize basically everything while France will maybe and a single division.
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Oct 4, 2017 11:34
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Chapter Twenty: Déjà Veracruz (July 17 – October 9, 1941)  On the same day as the surrender of the Collins regime in Ireland, an era ended in China as the legations emptied and were handed over to the Republic of China. The legations had been prepared to be put under siege ever since the leftist victories in the Chinese elections, but the Entente was able to get together and put enough pressure onto the Legations to stand down and be annexed by the republicans. The move was accompanied by an even broader scheme to nationalize foreign assets. The other Entente powers grumbled that Japan was giving China far too much without concrete guarantees of help, but they would be nowhere without Japan’s guidance and so they swallowed the indignity.  Other territorial changes in the month of July included the transfer of Sarawak to Indonesia.  German New Guinea was also handed over to Australasia.   Everything seemed routine until the Japanese shocked their allies by backing the pan-African faction and supporting the creation of the Bantu Federation.  This was the time for bold moves, as the war meant that Japan’s allies needed her enough to overlook how Japan repeatedly broached their legal rights with regards to legations and colonies. Indeed, the USA and PSA’s complaints about their loss of privilege in China were overshadowed by Japan overriding Chinese objections to the invasion of Mexico.  American and Pacifican forces had their own battle plan, but Japanese commanders advised Canada and New England on the mobility tactics which had led to success in Britain. Canada had its own armor and New England had their own motorized troops, and they hoped to use them to as spectacular an effect as Japan had.  Rather than attacking Dallas or Houston, a massive attack was launched towards Austin in order to threaten the avenue of retreat from both cities. If the Entente could trap the Mexican Army in hostile American territory, then it would be easier to make them surrender.   The New English infantry attacked from Western Colorado, hoping to cut off Denver from the rest of Mexico’s territory.   For whatever reason, the French protested the attack on Mexico, apparently not realizing the United States and France were already in a state of war.  Austin fell quickly, and the Canadian armor moved south towards Corpus Christi, though the wetlands in the south of Texas made this more difficult than the assault across the plains.  The Pacific States was also rendered complete for the first time as the Mexican occupation zone around San Francisco was snuffed out, something that the Pacific States had hoped to accomplish for years.  The Canadian philosophy to this point had been to use armor in support of infantry, but following the Japanese example, they pushed their armor forward across the Rio Grande.  The hope was that this would keep the Mexicans on the back foot and prevent the large salient centered on Amarillo from being evacuated south.   The outbreak of war in North America might have perhaps encouraged opportunists, but nobody followed through just yet.  The Canadians learned the same lessons as the Japanese in short time, that the armor could forge ahead but could not be expected to stand up to a determined assault from a larger infantry force.  Instead of trying to hold Monterrey, the Canadians instead moved to the coast and abandoned the city, while the New English motorized forces made a bold move to cut all of Mexico’s supply lines to the occupied territories.  The Canadian armor linked up with their slower comrades in Matamoros and attacked south towards Mexico City.  It was not fast enough to prevent the Mexicans from recapturing Monterrey, but the Mexican advance would end up dooming them.  Encouraged by the Japanese to keep up the pace, the Royal Canadian Army then began an attack on Veracruz while the battle around Monterrey was still ongoing.  The battle in that city would end shortly, as American forces arrived to attack along with Canadian forces.   With Monterrey under control permanently, the road to Mexico City was wide open.  That city would soon fall, and with it the entire Mexican government and the prodigious flow of oil from Texas to the Internationale.   The surrender of Mexico would coincide with the end of two conflicts in South America, as La Plata won against Brazil and Peru and Colombia would agree to peace after Colombia’s inability to help its ally in Ecuador.  However, while peace reigned in the Americas, war would break out again in the Middle East. India, without consulting its allies, would decide to attempt to occupy Persia before Turkestan could occupy it. This resulted in the Arab bloc of Egypt and Arabia declaring war on the Entente.  Egyptian forces began to attack in all directions out of Sudan, putting the National French, who had yet to handle the Algerian rebellion, under even more pressure.  More to Japan’s chagrin, their new project in Africa was now under attack. Fortunately, the Japanese had not yet withdrawn JEF-Africa. As fires went out, more began.   Fortunately for the Minseito, good news came from the British elections, where the Liberals won, providing another liberal voice in the Entente. FINAL CONFERENCE ROUND: Postwar Current Attitudes of the Allies: United Kingdom: 100% Committed Canada (Very High): +++, --, -- National France (Moderate): --, -, - Republic of China (Very Low): +++, ++ India (Moderate): -, - United States (Moderate): ++, ++ Pacific States (High): ++, - South African Federation (Moderate): --, -- Indonesia (High): = Australasia (Moderate): ++, -, - While the task of defeating the Internationale, and now the Arab bloc, looms large, the Entente must look to postwar policy. There are a variety of issues on which the Japanese may earn help now by promising their allies things later. Vote #1: French Sovereignty After the liberation of Britain and the handover to Canada, the regime in Algiers confidently stated that it was now their turn. This is something that makes the Minseito highly uneasy, as the conduct of the National French regime has been less than in concordance with the views of the Minseito or their sometimes partner, the Shakai Taishuto. However, the foundational treaties that formed the modern Entente after the fall of the homelands spell out that the very purpose of the alliance is to return control of each nation’s homeland to the exiled governments. Therefore, a split has formed within the Entente. The “Old Entente”, led by Canada, who formed the alliance seeks to honor the treaties, while the “New Entente”, especially the United States and Republic of China, does not trust the Algiers regime and would rather see a brand new Fourth Republic that has nothing to do with the Algiers regime. Option A: Return the Territory to National France The territory of France would be handed over to National France after the end of the war. This would greatly please National France, displease India and slightly please Canada and Australasia. It would displease the Republic of China and the United States. quote:”The Minseito is as weak against syndicalism overseas as they are at home. The French population has been exposed to this sickness for decades now, and they have been the most virulent in attempting to spread it across the globe. The tough stance of the Algiers regime will be necessary for a long time before the French people can be trusted with democracy.” - Binya Okuno, Domei member of the Diet Option B: Refuse to Recognize Algiers as the Rightful Government of France The territory of France would be reconstituted as a Fourth Republic under Japanese influence. This would please the United States and Republic of China. It would greatly displease National France, displease India, who is the most in league with National France among the original Entente members and slightly displease Canada and Australasia. quote:”The National French are not only immoral, but inept! It is a great shame to Japan that we ally with them, but to grant them a leading role in Europe would guarantee another disastrous war in Europe.” - Yukiyo Hirakawa, Minseito member of the Diet Vote #2: Russia  It is a common opinion amongst socialists and liberals across the Entente that Russia is a much worse regime than the syndicalist regimes of Europe. However, Russia has mostly turned in on themselves after their aggressive posturing against the Sphere in its earliest days and so the Internationale’s threat has been prioritized. Some in the Entente believe that the Vozhd in Russia must be deposed as a humanitarian end, that the pogroms and forced resettlements demand a response. In addition, Russia controls a great deal of territory which are claimed by China and Transamur. However, Russia has had trade relations with other Entente members, and many members of the Entente are furious that Japan would consider committing the Entente to even more war. Option A: Russia Must Fall Russia will be attacked after the war in Europe is wrapped up. This would greatly please the Republic of China, which hopes to reclaim its territory from Russia, and it would please the United States, the government of which has been lobbied heavily by its large Jewish population to do something about the Vozhd’s anti-Semitic pogroms and slightly please the Pacific States for the same reasons. It would displease India, who distrusts the pan-Chinese movement as an attempt to make India a definite third fiddle in Asia behind Japan and China. It would displease National France as some of the justifications used for the potential attack on Russia could be directly applied to their own conduct, and so they are afraid of the precedent. It would slightly displease Australasia and Canada which have endeavored to trade with Russia as a part of their Pacific-facing trade policy. quote:”The Vozhd is the most evil man in the world today, and if the Minseito had listened to us and resolved to eliminate them before ever getting us involved in conflict with the Internationale, thousands of lives would have been saved. I suppose late is better than never, but do not believe that this would atone for your sins.” - Itsuko Sakata, former Shakai Taishuto member of the Diet, barred for overly seditious sentiments Option B: Enough War! Russia will not be attacked. This will please India and National France and slightly please Australasia and Canada. It will greatly displease the Republic of China, displease the United States, and slightly displease the Pacific States. quote:”NO MORE WAR, NO MORE DEATH!” – chant during anti-war protest in Sapporo Vote #3: The King Doctrine  The Arab bloc has found itself in a three-front war against the Entente and Turkestan, and the lack of preparedness on the part of the Entente means that Turkestan will likely be successful in capturing a significant portion of the Middle East, if not almost all of it. While the Arab bloc has not been allies of the Entente, they have been friendly enough before India attacked Persia, and the prospect of unfriendly Turkestan trying to impose its radical Islamist reforms upon a wide variety of populations in such an economically and geographically important region is causing worry of economic chaos in the years to come. Therefore, Canadian Prime Minister Mackenzie King is proposing a doctrine that would declare the Middle East to be an area of “particular importance” to the Entente. While this would not result in immediate conflict with Turkestan, it would mean that as a point of policy, the Entente would seek to evict Turkestan from the Middle East in order to secure India, the Suez Canal, and the many oilfields of the region. Option A: Back the Doctrine If Turkestan manages to control a large portion of the Middle East, the Entente would be committed to evicting them at the earliest possibility, most likely after the European war. If the Entente adopts a hostile stance against Russia, they would almost assuredly align with Russia for common security. This would greatly please India, who finds Turkestan to be a great threat. It would please Canada, who proposed the doctrine in the first place. It would displease the United States and Indonesia, who are both enjoying a great deal of prosperity due to their prominence in the oil trade and would profit from the reduction of Persian oil production. It would also slightly displease the Republic of China, who believes the entire venture to be imperialistic, though their objections are tempered by their tacit understanding that their ambitious industrialization projects would require a great deal of Middle Eastern oil. quote:”The Middle East is the crossroads of our modern world, and the global economy that we are building in the Entente could not thrive if the Middle East was controlled by a hostile power. For the good of the Entente, and the good of the local population who would suffer under the Turkestani whip, this doctrine must be approved by the Entente.” – W. L. Mackenzie King, Prime Minister of Canada Option B: Tell King to Back Down Turkestan would be allowed to keep whatever they conquer, though the Entente will do its best to keep Arab territory away from them. This would please the United States and Indonesia, slightly please the Republic of China, greatly displease India, and displease Canada. quote:”Once again the capitalists come up with a new threat to excuse their imperialist behavior. This is nothing more, nothing less than the imagined or trumped up offenses which the European imperialists would use as justification to subjugate other nations into their colonial empires. Do you really believe that the Entente would seize all of that oil and then give the Arabs back their freedom? If so, you are a fool.” - Yoshito Umaba, Shakai Taishuto member of the Diet
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Oct 4, 2017 18:30
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BAB
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Oct 4, 2017 18:38
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1A. They'll fall anyway in time. 2A. 1908 calls for a rematch. 3A. King is right, and Turkestani imperialism must be opposed in the name of liberal democracy.
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Oct 4, 2017 18:41
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BBA.
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Oct 4, 2017 18:44
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B: Install Fourth Republic: At this point they are hostile to us and therefore it's better we install a more friendly regime. A: War with Russia: What kind of good liberal would tolerate fascism after all? A: Back the Doctrine: It's likely Turkestan will align with Russia, therefore it's better to cut them off as soon as possible while doing so.
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Oct 4, 2017 18:48
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AAA
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Oct 4, 2017 18:50
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AAB
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Oct 4, 2017 18:52
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BAA
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Oct 4, 2017 19:00
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BAA
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Oct 4, 2017 19:01
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BAA gently caress the Algiers Government!
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Oct 4, 2017 19:01
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Also I caught up with the Crown Atomic lately and this has been a way less depressing and horrifying timeline for an Entente win so thanks Japan for reigning in its partners.
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Oct 4, 2017 19:13
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BAB
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Oct 4, 2017 19:49
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BAA
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Oct 4, 2017 20:01
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BAA
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Oct 4, 2017 21:08
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BAA
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Oct 4, 2017 21:10
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BBA
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Oct 4, 2017 21:35
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BAA, because gently caress all those guys.
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Oct 4, 2017 21:47
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BAA
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Oct 4, 2017 21:52
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Let's make like sheep and BAA
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Oct 4, 2017 22:50
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Option A: Return the Territory to National France I am not a fan of the Algiers regime either, but we cannot abrogate our agreed-to responsibilities on that basis alone. We will have abundant opportunities to influence and pressure them after the war; creating a bitter and insular regime in Northern Option A: Russia Must Fall Russia is a blight upon the whole of the world. Even if it did not pose a long-term strategic threat, it is clear that it is a deeply cruel and unethical society. We should not intervene in foreign nations lightly, but when a country has abandoned every standard of decency, law, and justice, something must be done. Option A: Back the Doctrine If we are to match the standards we proclaim for ourselves, we cannot permit empires to carve their way across large chunks of the world. The Middle East should be protected against Turkestani expansionism. Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Oct 5, 2017 |
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Oct 4, 2017 23:47
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Sordas Volantyr posted:Let's make like sheep and BAA
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Oct 4, 2017 23:51
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BAA
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Oct 5, 2017 00:41
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BAA
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Oct 5, 2017 01:08
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BAA 
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Oct 5, 2017 01:23
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AAA
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Oct 5, 2017 01:24
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ABA
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Oct 5, 2017 01:24
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This choice will lead to our Waterloo! Sorry. Not sorry.
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Oct 5, 2017 01:38
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BBA
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Oct 5, 2017 01:50
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B A A In the Grim Darkness of the 2nd Millennium there is Only War.
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Oct 5, 2017 02:16
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BAB
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Oct 5, 2017 10:49
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AAA
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Oct 5, 2017 11:34
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