Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Ex Machina (2015)
 
  • Locked thread
Honest Thief
Jan 11, 2009
 Finally a movie that says what we're all thinking, women are out to get you and betray you; I LOVED YOU KATYA, YOU BROKE MY HEART!


In all seriousness, I love how both men never regarded her as an actual individual.

* # ¿ May 11, 2015 10:29
  • Quote
Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 1, 2024 16:39
  • Quote
Honest Thief
Jan 11, 2009

K. Waste posted:

That's a somewhat weird negative to establish. In what specific ways does Caleb, let alone Nathan, not recognize Ava as an individual. What does individualism mean in this case, what effect, if any, does it have on the narrative?

Just in the interest of discussion, doesn't Caleb's increasing self-confirmation about Ava's consciousness and humanity necessarily mean he sees her as an individual? And what of the contrary notion? Why is recognizing that something is, in a phrase, 'just a machine,' a value judgment against its individuality?

Is this just about the 'nice guy' stuff? That Caleb is convinced that she needs his help to escape? (Which she does.)
With Caleb I mean the fantasy that he's painting of her, he's in love with his idea of her, basically he's infatuated by her. Given how the story goes, it's not meaning that love is fake or some nihilistic view on human relations, but more about two distinct but modern male roles. To me what's more telling is how Caleb never actually touches her or engage her outside a safe environment or even tries to not be a creep; by the end he's still spying her when she's dressing. I doubt he ever replied Ava's question about wanting to be with her. I may be harsher on Caleb cause Issac's character was thoroughly trashed during the movie.

* # ¿ May 11, 2015 16:32
  • Quote
Honest Thief
Jan 11, 2009

monkey posted:

This movie is a lot more enjoyable when it is about AI coming of age rather than feminism. After reading this thread I almost wish Ava had been cast as a male, a child or a talking dog, it could have got all the same points across, but doing that would have detracted from the story.
'Why make Ava have a gender?' is an actual question uttered by Caleb on the movie, and crucial to the whole plot. What you're talking about sounds like a bad scifi about a grey box, like Nathan said.

* # ¿ May 11, 2015 18:18
  • Quote
Honest Thief
Jan 11, 2009
 1984 wasn't really about anything really

* # ¿ May 11, 2015 20:38
  • Quote
Honest Thief
Jan 11, 2009
 How the heck can you be so obtuse to even use lame mark archetypes, that are defined by their interactions with women, and still deny female presence let alone agency on the movie?!

* # ¿ May 11, 2015 22:00
  • Quote
Honest Thief
Jan 11, 2009

monkey posted:

I'm not back pedaling at all, but there's no point arguing with you further. I will leave you with this. I scoffed at a thread about this movie that was overwhelmingly focussed on feminism, because this is the only film I've ever seen that makes constant references to the work of Hofstader and addresses concerns of the Future of Life Institute. I was looking forward to reading CD's take on that sort of thing, but apparently those aspects slid right past you all because Ava had tits.
No, she has a oval office, mechanically it's possible to gently caress her.

I'd actually argue that some feminists wouldn't enjoy the movie much though, maybe because I'm male but, I thought it was a more male centric story anyhow.

* # ¿ May 12, 2015 10:14
  • Quote
Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 1, 2024 16:39
  • Quote
Honest Thief
Jan 11, 2009

K. Waste posted:

I am specifically saying that Caleb was not being oppressive, just maybe a little creepy. Kinda. Again, I don't by the 'nice guy' reading. Caleb is not a nice guy, but a 'good man.' The most someone can say is "it was part of the experiment," but that still requires two people being exploited.
There's one scene that I almost want to go as far as saying ti shows how Caleb's creepy: when he sees Ava and Nate speaking on the CCTV he goes out of the room at loss and for some reason speaks to Kyoko; I'd venture he wanted to find Kyoko, for some reason he didn't know, but Kyoko did.

* # ¿ May 13, 2015 18:38
  • Quote
  • Locked thread
The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Ex Machina (2015)