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DontMockMySmock
Aug 9, 2008

I got this title for the dumbest fucking possible take on sea shanties. Specifically, I derailed the meme thread because sailors in the 18th century weren't woke enough for me, and you shouldn't sing sea shanties. In fact, don't have any fun ever.
So earlier I was on a run that was going pretty well, and I got a red chest devil room teleport. It had Brimstone and Dark Bum, but I only had 4 soul hearts. I took Dark Bum, since I was already doing OK on damage and could use the extra health engine. Flash forward to the boss of that floor, and I had plenty of health (thanks Dark Bum) and kill the boss reasonably well. The boss item is Pentagram, and the devil room opens to what I know is going to be Brimstone :getin:

And then I accidentally jump down to the next floor without picking up any of that poo poo :cripes:

Won the run anyway but that one really hurt.

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Wildtortilla
Jul 8, 2008

DontMockMySmock posted:

So earlier I was on a run that was going pretty well, and I got a red chest devil room teleport. It had Brimstone and Dark Bum, but I only had 4 soul hearts. I took Dark Bum, since I was already doing OK on damage and could use the extra health engine. Flash forward to the boss of that floor, and I had plenty of health (thanks Dark Bum) and kill the boss reasonably well. The boss item is Pentagram, and the devil room opens to what I know is going to be Brimstone :getin:

And then I accidentally jump down to the next floor without picking up any of that poo poo :cripes:

Won the run anyway but that one really hurt.

Depending on the type of hearts I have I sometimes let eternal hearts sit until after clearing the boss. I'm very good at forgetting to go pick them up after the boss fight.

In other news I cleared boss rush (first time!!) with Mag! My Hush clear (first!!) earlier today was with Mag too. I'm really coming around on her. I dig having that extra heart container and heal active item. They make cursed doors and early devil deals easy to use. Especially the cursed rooms - there's lots of good stuff in there!

This game just keeps getting more fun!!

Wildtortilla
Jul 8, 2008
I'm trying to run Greed mode with Eve and I've never run into so much bullshit. Half of the pedestal items on this run are +1 red heart items. Exactly what I don't want as Eve. I'm so loving sick of dog food, stem cells, etc. They can all gently caress off into the sun. Of the ~ten runs that have ended in various stages of failure today, the most promising run was in it's later half. I had two red hearts, one full and one empty. I was doing decent damage with Whore of Babylon proc'd 100% of the time, until a red heart spawned on top of me. loving hell.

I'm sure now that I've posted about this my next run will be a homerun from the beginning.

Ariong
Jun 25, 2012



Don’t do any more Eve stuff until you put 439 coins in the greed machine. Once you do, this problem with be completely solved.

Wildtortilla
Jul 8, 2008
oh my god i did it.

ArfJason
Sep 5, 2011

Wildtortilla posted:

I'm trying to run Greed mode with Eve and I've never run into so much bullshit. Half of the pedestal items on this run are +1 red heart items. Exactly what I don't want as Eve. I'm so loving sick of dog food, stem cells, etc. They can all gently caress off into the sun. Of the ~ten runs that have ended in various stages of failure today, the most promising run was in it's later half. I had two red hearts, one full and one empty. I was doing decent damage with Whore of Babylon proc'd 100% of the time, until a red heart spawned on top of me. loving hell.

I'm sure now that I've posted about this my next run will be a homerun from the beginning.

thats honestly one of the things i hope antibirth and by extension repentance fixes. red heart builds just arent worth jack poo poo and have no interesting items to work with

Wild T
Dec 15, 2008

The point I'm trying to make is that the only way to come out on top is to kick the Air Force in the nuts, beart it savagely with a weight and take a dump on it's face.
Posting in hopes of finally finishing hard bode Boss Rush with The Keeper. So far every run I've had was stymied. I gave up after I finally got a great run. No 1 in the first item room, Synthoil, Jesus Juice, all enough to make my DPS pretty nasty. I screwed up slightly by picking up Blue Cap and Eve's Mascara, resulting in rapid firing gigantic slow tears but my speed was enough that I could swing him towards an enemy as I fired and launch them right at them.

I was holding a Hagelaz rune the whole run, hoping desperately for a room of jars to bust for a Swallowed Penny. No luck, but I did amass about 84 coins. Hopefully the last couple shops will have Piggy Bank and I'm gonna be unstoppaFUCK, Greed and Ultra Greed. I still have my Wooden Nickel, so as long as I pop it every round of Boss Rush I should have enough pennies on the floor to make it.

I eat a hit from Fatty's cheap-rear end quick stomp attack. That's okay, I pop my only coin. Next round? Double Cage, take another hit. Okay, getting nervous. Power through four consecutive rounds without my Wooden Nickel giving me a coin. End up eating poo poo because I zigged instead of zagging against Bloat. Thanks, RNG.

Ariong
Jun 25, 2012



I recommend the Car Battery to boost your odds of getting a coin each round to 75%, with a 25% chance of getting two coins. That’s how I did it.

Wildtortilla
Jul 8, 2008

Wild T posted:

Posting in hopes of finally finishing hard bode Boss Rush with The Keeper. So far every run I've had was stymied. I gave up after I finally got a great run. No 1 in the first item room, Synthoil, Jesus Juice, all enough to make my DPS pretty nasty. I screwed up slightly by picking up Blue Cap and Eve's Mascara, resulting in rapid firing gigantic slow tears but my speed was enough that I could swing him towards an enemy as I fired and launch them right at them.

I was holding a Hagelaz rune the whole run, hoping desperately for a room of jars to bust for a Swallowed Penny. No luck, but I did amass about 84 coins. Hopefully the last couple shops will have Piggy Bank and I'm gonna be unstoppaFUCK, Greed and Ultra Greed. I still have my Wooden Nickel, so as long as I pop it every round of Boss Rush I should have enough pennies on the floor to make it.

I eat a hit from Fatty's cheap-rear end quick stomp attack. That's okay, I pop my only coin. Next round? Double Cage, take another hit. Okay, getting nervous. Power through four consecutive rounds without my Wooden Nickel giving me a coin. End up eating poo poo because I zigged instead of zagging against Bloat. Thanks, RNG.

Fatty's quick stomp and everything about all forms of Bloat suck poo poo. Bloat especially can suck a gently caress. The floating eyes and his no-warm-up Brimstone have ridiculous hit boxes. I'm angry for you.

Also, Ultra Greed can spawn in boss rush?

Wild T
Dec 15, 2008

The point I'm trying to make is that the only way to come out on top is to kick the Air Force in the nuts, beart it savagely with a weight and take a dump on it's face.

Wildtortilla posted:

Fatty's quick stomp and everything about all forms of Bloat suck poo poo. Bloat especially can suck a gently caress. The floating eyes and his no-warm-up Brimstone have ridiculous hit boxes. I'm angry for you.

Also, Ultra Greed can spawn in boss rush?

Not in the Boss Rush room itself, but he took over the last shop on Mom's floor so I couldn't try for any items. Of course he dropped Steam Sale as well.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die
Grimey Drawer

Wild T posted:

Not in the Boss Rush room itself, but he took over the last shop on Mom's floor so I couldn't try for any items. Of course he dropped Steam Sale as well.

Just taunting you at that point

Wildtortilla
Jul 8, 2008

Wild T posted:

Hopefully the last couple shops will have Piggy Bank and I'm gonna be unstoppaFUCK, Greed and Ultra Greed.

Wild T posted:

Not in the Boss Rush room itself, but he took over the last shop on Mom's floor so I couldn't try for any items. Of course he dropped Steam Sale as well.

Do you mean Greed or Ultra Greed? I'm not second guessing you, I'm just loving scared at the thought of fighting Ultra Greed anywhere but the end of Greed Mode.

I just had the best run through Greed as Lilith. It turns out Car Battery + Charged Baby + Box of Friends is AWESOME. I just wish I hadn't accidentally healed that red heart because I had Whore of Babylon too :(.

https://twitter.com/wildtortilla/status/1291111769948086273

PostNouveau posted:

Just taunting you at that point

I got Steam Sale in the room before Greed on this run. :rolleyes:

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Super Greed probably

Ariong
Jun 25, 2012



A Simple Guide to Unlockable Starting Items

Many characters in this game have starting items that they do not start with until a certain milestone is achieved. In many cases, it is rather difficult to make progress with these characters without their unlockable starting items. In all cases, these starting items make the character more fun to play as. Therefore, before you start getting completion marks on a given character, you should unlock all of their starting items if possible. Here is a nice, condensed list of each unlockable starter for each character and how to unlock it.

Secret characters (the ones that don't appear on the character select screen until they are unlocked) are placed behind spoiler bars, if you care. Items which I feel are particularly important and should be unlocked ASAP to get the most out of the character are marked with a :siren:.

Isaac
:siren: The D6 - Defeat Isaac (the final boss of the Cathedral) as ???.

Magdalene
:siren: A Speed Up pill. - Complete the April Fool challenge. This in turn is much easier after completing the XXXXXXXXL challenge to unlock Gold Hearts. This pill will make Magdalene's speed equal to Isaac's starting speed.

Cain
Paper Clip - Donate 68 coins to the Greed Machine in Greed Mode (or Greedier Mode.)

Eve
:siren: Razor Blade - Donate 439 coins to the Greed Machine.

Samson
Child's Heart - Complete the Ultra Hard challenge. This is (arguably) the least impactful unlockable starter and (arguably) the most arduous requirement so don't hesitate to skip this one if you want.

Lazarus
Anemic - Complete the Backasswards challenge. Before unlocking this, Lazarus starts with Lazarus' Rags and only gets Anemic after dying and being resurrected by the Rags. After unlocking this, Lazarus starts with both the Rags and Anemic, and after being resurrected by the Rags, the Anemic effect is always active.

The Lost
D4 - Blow up 30 arcade machines.
:siren::siren::siren: Holy Mantle - Donate 879 coins to the Greed Machine. DO NOT do anything as The Lost before unlocking the holy mantle.

The Keeper
:siren: Wooden Nickel - Defeat Isaac as the Keeper.
Store Key - Defeat Satan as the Keeper.
1 coin - Defeat Hush as the Keeper.

Ariong
Jun 25, 2012



A Simple Guide to Secret Characters

There are unlockable characters in this game that do not appear in the character select screen until they are unlocked. That would be all well and good if you unlocked them over the course of normal gameplay, and the first one you do. However, two of the others have very obscure unlock methods and while technically there are hints in the game as to the process of unlocking them, it's honestly pretty unlikely that you would discover and solve these mysteries. This is a shame, since all of the secret characters are very unique and cool. I've detailed the processes for unlocking these characters below. They are behind spoiler bars but even if you like discovering things organically I highly recommend having a look. These characters get discussed freely in this thread anyway. Other spoilers are minimized.

???
Unlock method: Defeat Mom's Heart ten times.

The Lost
Unlock method: Kill yourself with the spikes of a Sacrifice Room while holding the Missing Poster trinket.

The Keeper
Unlock Method: Donate 1000 coins to the Greed Machine in Greed(ier) Mode.

The Forgotten

This character can only be unlocked after defeating The Lamb (the final boss of the Dark Room) for the first time.

Unlock Method:
Step 1: Defeat the first floor boss in under a minute. You'll know you did it because you'll hear Mom's voice yell "Isaac!" when the boss dies.
Step 2: Return to the starting room and place a bomb anywhere. This will spawn the Broken Shovel.
Step 3: Pick up the broken shovel. As long as you hold this active item, Mom stomps will constantly rain down on you. Using the item will stop the stomps for the current room (or wave of the challenge room or boss rush.)
Step 4: Complete the boss rush. Don't worry about getting there in time, the Broken Shovel removes the timing requirement to access the boss rush.
Step 5: Pick up the passive item that spawns after the boss rush. This will turn your active item into Mom's Shovel, which means you no longer have to worry about the stomps.
Step 6: Make your way through the Womb and Sheol to reach the Dark Room.
Step 7: Explore the Dark Room until you find an empty room with a mound of dirt in the middle of it.
Step 8: Stand on top of the dirt mound and activate Mom's Shovel.

See what I mean about these things being too obscure? You'll want to use Azazel for this. Not only is he an overpowered character, his flight ensures that you can constantly do laps around each room to avoid stomps without being stopped by obstacles.


Sorry for the double post, I thought those little guides were worth typing out since all that info is so useful and very easy to overlook.

Ariong fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Aug 6, 2020

Renaissance Robot
Oct 10, 2010

Bite my furry metal ass

ArfJason posted:

thats honestly one of the things i hope antibirth and by extension repentance fixes. red heart builds just arent worth jack poo poo and have no interesting items to work with

Not true! One of my early Greed runs I got Azazel up to maximum red hearts while holding guppy's paw, which gave me close to triple health for the final fight. Only issue was I kept forgetting to trigger it when I had room for more hearts; I ended up beating ultra greed but dying at the exact same time he did because he dropped a coin on my head, so I didn't get the mark :saddowns:

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

Guppy's Paw is a great payoff for a red hearts build. Game could definitely use more though.

Wildtortilla
Jul 8, 2008
Does damaging Mega Satan's hands hurt him or does it just damage the hands to remove them temporarily?

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Wildtortilla posted:

Does damaging Mega Satan's hands hurt him or does it just damage the hands to remove them temporarily?

Yeah, it does some damage to him.

SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007

Oh no!😱

Ariong posted:

Samson
Child's Heart - Complete the Ultra Hard challenge. This is (arguably) the least impactful unlockable starter and (arguably) the most arduous requirement so don't hesitate to skip this one if you want.


I feel like this doesnt need the arguably at all. I'd entertain Backasswards as being very arduous, but at least you win or lose that one quickly (if you beat MegaStanley the rest of the run is pretty much easy, if you dont its over in the first room). Ultra Hard is just an absolute bastard, and it isnt always clear if a run is viable until after the first floor bosses (or even later sometimes, I'm still chipping away at ultra hard and I've had a few that got the survivability (healing/damage prevention/orbital shields/whatever) to make it to the end but never got a damage engine, and a few that had the damage to absolute melt bosses but just didnt have the survivability to make it through all the rooms that have practically unavoidable damage. And frustratingly a couple that had both but then got ruined by Cursed Eye or Dead Cat (An item I normally rate highly, but not when you get it in the Chest as the only guppy item you have seen all run and you previously had full red hearts, placenta and charm of the vampire...).

And the PS4 still doesnt have a fast reset option, so when you get your first floor items and they are Little Chad and The Mitre you have to quit to menu and start a new run, or let things kill you. Which sounds minor, but gets real old, real fast.

Ariong posted:

very obscure unlock methods


The Lost
Unlock method: Kill yourself with the spikes of a Sacrifice Room while holding the Missing Poster trinket.


And, its worth noting, this is the newer, kinder method of unlocking that character. Pre-DLC it was obscure as gently caress, requiring you to die to particular enemies on particular floors with particular characters in sequence. Die in the wrong floor or to the wrong enemy (such as for example an enemy spawned by Mom instead of one of Moms direct attacks) or pick the wrong character and you had to start the sequence over again. I refuse to believe anyone worked that out without a guide, and I'm not ashamed to admit that I abused cloud saves to get the 4th step so I wouldnt have to start over again.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Another thing: if you're in a position to unlock The Lost, do it! It's worth sacrificing a strong run as a different character because that trinket takes forever to find when you're actively looking for it.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die
Grimey Drawer

SiKboy posted:

And, its worth noting, this is the newer, kinder method of unlocking that character. Pre-DLC it was obscure as gently caress, requiring you to die to particular enemies on particular floors with particular characters in sequence. Die in the wrong floor or to the wrong enemy (such as for example an enemy spawned by Mom instead of one of Moms direct attacks) or pick the wrong character and you had to start the sequence over again. I refuse to believe anyone worked that out without a guide, and I'm not ashamed to admit that I abused cloud saves to get the 4th step so I wouldnt have to start over again.

IIRC, the solution wasn't put together through clues either, although the community was getting close. Someone cracked the game code to figure it out probably a couple days before reddit would have. This made the developers really mad and they put the Dataminer item into the game as a reference to it.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

The original Lost unlock was an ARG. The community had pretty much solved it before it was datamined

Wildtortilla
Jul 8, 2008

The Moon Monster posted:

Another thing: if you're in a position to unlock The Lost, do it! It's worth sacrificing a strong run as a different character because that trinket takes forever to find when you're actively looking for it.

The first and only time I've seen the Missing Poster was in a challenge run. :mad:

KingShiro
Jan 10, 2008

EH?!?!?!
Going for a full clear on my 3rd file, I think that's the fastest I've ever found 10 beds.

John Lee
Mar 2, 2013

A time traveling adventure everyone can enjoy

Ariong posted:

A Simple Guide to Secret Characters

There are unlockable characters in this game that do not appear in the character select screen until they are unlocked. That would be all well and good if you unlocked them over the course of normal gameplay, and the first one you do. However, two of the others have very obscure unlock methods and while technically there are hints in the game as to the process of unlocking them, it's honestly pretty unlikely that you would discover and solve these mysteries. This is a shame, since all of the secret characters are very unique and cool. I've detailed the processes for unlocking these characters below. They are behind spoiler bars but even if you like discovering things organically I highly recommend having a look. These characters get discussed freely in this thread anyway. Other spoilers are minimized.

???
Unlock method: Defeat Mom's Heart ten times.


Sorry for the double post, I thought those little guides were worth typing out since all that info is so useful and very easy to overlook.

You, uh, really think this is too obscure and not unlocked during normal gameplay?

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

John Lee posted:

You, uh, really think this is too obscure and not unlocked during normal gameplay?
Did you consider reading what you quoted?

Ariong
Jun 25, 2012



John Lee posted:

You, uh, really think this is too obscure and not unlocked during normal gameplay?

No, I think you unlock it during normal gameplay, which is why I said that.

Wildtortilla
Jul 8, 2008
Back bassakwards.

The hardest part of this is seeing real threats through all the bullshit splattered all over the floor. Half the damage I take I can't explain. I finally had a great run going, but then, whoops lots of unexplainable damage during the Super Gluttony + Sloth + Greed + Pride phase.

So I died.

Then at the start of my next attempt, the challenge starts with troll bombs surround me and I can't move because you gotta wait through this short cutscene of the floor doing its thing.

gently caress OFF

edit: and now the next round I beat him with half a heart left, a pill dropped, I took a chance, and it was a full heal. Now I just need to not gently caress this up.

Wildtortilla fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Aug 6, 2020

Black August
Sep 28, 2003

The super obscure character unlocks idea was pretty cool and up my alley, but it wasnt done too well in Isaac, and fukken lol was Edmund dumb to think it wouldn’t be immediately datamined; ANY game secret now has to be designed explicitly around the fact that your game will be torn wide open bare on Day 1

You think Repentance will have new characters? I forget if Antibirth had any.

Psychedelicatessen
Feb 17, 2012

Black August posted:

The super obscure character unlocks idea was pretty cool and up my alley, but it wasnt done too well in Isaac, and fukken lol was Edmund dumb to think it wouldn’t be immediately datamined; ANY game secret now has to be designed explicitly around the fact that your game will be torn wide open bare on Day 1

You think Repentance will have new characters? I forget if Antibirth had any.

Bethany and Jacob & Esau will return, officially there's no hidden 3rd character, but who knows with Edmund

Wild T
Dec 15, 2008

The point I'm trying to make is that the only way to come out on top is to kick the Air Force in the nuts, beart it savagely with a weight and take a dump on it's face.

Wildtortilla posted:

Do you mean Greed or Ultra Greed? I'm not second guessing you, I'm just loving scared at the thought of fighting Ultra Greed anywhere but the end of Greed Mode.

Yup, Super Greed is the one I meant. Weirdly I find Super Greed waaaaaay easier than standard Greed, since all you need to do is hang back and his quad shot passes by on either side of you. Greed's triple shot loves to catch me and make me drop my precious pennies.

Wildtortilla
Jul 8, 2008

Wild T posted:

Yup, Super Greed is the one I meant. Weirdly I find Super Greed waaaaaay easier than standard Greed, since all you need to do is hang back and his quad shot passes by on either side of you. Greed's triple shot loves to catch me and make me drop my precious pennies.

I'm so bad at dodging both of their attacks :(

Lately I'm really having problems with all attacks that send a spread of shots at me.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Wild T posted:

Yup, Super Greed is the one I meant. Weirdly I find Super Greed waaaaaay easier than standard Greed, since all you need to do is hang back and his quad shot passes by on either side of you. Greed's triple shot loves to catch me and make me drop my precious pennies.

And he's physically larger so he's gonna catch more of your shots compared to regular Greed. Really the only thing harder about him is that he summons keeper heads instead of the headless hopper dudes.

Wild T
Dec 15, 2008

The point I'm trying to make is that the only way to come out on top is to kick the Air Force in the nuts, beart it savagely with a weight and take a dump on it's face.

Wildtortilla posted:

I'm so bad at dodging both of their attacks :(

Lately I'm really having problems with all attacks that send a spread of shots at me.

Trick with Super Greed is the same as the Keeper Heads (and the fat flies that shoot the two spread shots) - when they fire, freeze. They'll only hit you if you're moving.

Wildtortilla
Jul 8, 2008
Aaaaaaaaaaah I cleared Bassakwards!

:dance:

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

Ultra Hard? More like Ultra Chump.

Book of Rev + Judas's Shadow on floor one, kidney stone floor 2 carried me through mom, picked up brimstone after and tore through the rest.

That was tedious.

Wildtortilla
Jul 8, 2008

Some Goon posted:

Ultra Hard? More like Ultra Chump.

Book of Rev + Judas's Shadow on floor one, kidney stone floor 2 carried me through mom, picked up brimstone after and tore through the rest.

That was tedious.

Congrats! I tried ultra hard a few times this morning and then decided I don't give a poo poo about Samson right now.

Wildtortilla
Jul 8, 2008
In one Lazarus run I managed to build up a ton of damage early on, find a Missing Poster, die in a sacrifice room, unlock The Lost, resurrect as a stronger Lazarus, find a few black and soul hearts, melt everything I encountered, and then lost it all in my first fight against The Matriarch.

I've read plenty about her online and the fight does seem to suck as much as everyone lets on!

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Wildtortilla
Jul 8, 2008
I don't know what happened but this game is suddenly much harder and not a fun harder. Lost three ??? Greed runs in a row. First two were vs Matriarch on the Womb level and the third was a double Bloat fight in which each Bloat spawned with eyes already floating, could spread red creep, spawn crawlers, and lob exosive tears. In the 115 hours my Switch is telling me I've played this game I've never experienced this many ridiculous boss fights in a short span like this.

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