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DoubleNegative
Jan 27, 2010

The most virtuous child in the entire world.

I'm not gonna say a single bad thing about Repentance's pills because I've only seen Retro Vision once since installing the addon. Back in AB+ it was showing up in so many runs I did that I had to install a mod specifically to blacklist its effect.

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Too Many Birds
Jan 8, 2020




apophenium posted:

I'm seeing someone on Twitch cheesing item unlocks for multiple characters by starting co-op and playing a strong character like Bethany and letting a character like Jacob and Esau hang out at room entrances or die. They just unlocked Jacob's and Bethany's boss rush items at the same time, even though the former was dead.

Not sure if that gives post-it note completions, but something to consider if you want the unlocks.

e. It does give post it note completion marks for the co-op characters. Take advantage while you can, if you want. It'll prob be patched out.

well because i absolutely hate jacob and esau i'll be taking advantage of it.

the only way i think they can fix this is by disabling achievements during co-op or implementing some sort of AFK timer on the players.

but because edmund is a spiteful fucker who hates people playing his game The Wrong Way the actual solution will be more punishing and unfun for the players.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Irony Be My Shield posted:

It doesn't actually increase the size of your hitbox. Pretty distressing though.
Really???? Hmm..... ok maybe pills are fine.

Super No Vacancy
Jul 26, 2012

yahallo


Too Many Birds posted:

well because i absolutely hate jacob and esau i'll be taking advantage of it.

the only way i think they can fix this is by disabling achievements during co-op or implementing some sort of AFK timer on the players.

but because edmund is a spiteful fucker who hates people playing his game The Wrong Way the actual solution will be more punishing and unfun for the players.

you can literally get unlocks and cheevos with cheat mods installed lol relax

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Super No Vacancy posted:

you can literally get unlocks and cheevos with cheat mods installed lol relax
I am not sure you can anymore...

Too Many Birds
Jan 8, 2020




let me hate those awful twin boys.

DoubleNegative
Jan 27, 2010

The most virtuous child in the entire world.

No Wave posted:

I am not sure you can anymore...

Even if for some reason Edmund made it so that installing mods blocks achievements, one of the first mods that will be created is a mod to re-enable achievements.

Kchama
Jul 25, 2007

YAP YAP YAP


Turns out Scatman is pretty easy if you get a Lil Brimstone in your first Devil Deal.

Psychedelicatessen
Feb 17, 2012


Kchama posted:

Turns out Scatman is pretty easy if you get a Lil Brimstone in your first Devil Deal.

Scat man is way easier than it was in Antibirth, since you start with the Oh poo poo-transformation instead of no transformation. You gain red heart every time you destroy a poop, so The Poop is a free healing item.

Seeing Double is a fair bit harder, since 20/20 damage was nerfed, so you're fighting twice the enemies with 1.5x the firepower.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007



ArfJason posted:

keeper now is so much better hes no longer the worst character

This is the most difficult thing to believe

I have to try it myself to know.

ArfJason
Sep 5, 2011


gotten thrice to antibirth path's boss as the lost and im starting to get impatient.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



Lol that Genesis - a J&E item - is an instant run ruiner to an absolutely unprecedented degree on that character. Holy poo poo.

Futaba Anzu
May 5, 2011

GROSS BOY



Irony Be My Shield posted:

Lol that Genesis - a J&E item - is an instant run ruiner to an absolutely unprecedented degree on that character. Holy poo poo.

how so? it sounds actually amazing? unless it only accounts item count from just one character?

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

Hey, Adora.



Futaba Anzu posted:

how so? it sounds actually amazing? unless it only accounts item count from just one character?

From the wiki:

quote:

If used as Jacob and Esau, both the characters will get all their items removed, but you'll be only presented with replacement pedestals for items removed from the character using Genesis, likely resulting in a net item loss.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



Yeah. And not only that but it seems like those pedestals are specially hardcoded so that J&E can't take two items from them.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



Honestly it's kindof impressive how every J&E run manages to give me a new reason to despise the character. You know how when you do the Lost transformation thing in Downpour 2 it happens to one character but not the other? In the rooms where you're swept downwards this will happen to one character but not the other, leading to them being unavoidably separated. This also happens during the Clog fight when he does his whirlpool move. The new Beyblade inspired active item increases speed for one character but not the other, making it basically unusable. Guillotine seems to do something fucky with their hitboxes that leads to them randomly becoming separated. If you get a bomb item like Ipecac on your secondary character they go from mostly useless to a massive liability as you have to avoid blowing yourself up with them, or switch to bomb tactics and sacrifice most of the damage from your other character. Is it intended that some item room layouts deny you your second item, as the pedestals must be approached from different directions?

Kawalimus
Jan 17, 2008

Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism


You can turn both of them into The Lost if you want to.

Forgotten vs the Super Secret Boss was so fun. Just a hard counter to its bullshit. So satisfying to crush.

Danger - Octopus!
Apr 20, 2008




Nap Ghost

Not sure if it's intended, but Tractor Beam is hilarious with Lilith (esp in Greed mode) because it overrides the incubi now, so the tears come from you. But the tears are related to the number of incubi you have, so if you've got several of them out, you just get a solid stream of tears that melts bosses

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007



lmao jesus christ the new loving boss rush

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_nPp64OrBc

e: wait does the chest not give you chests every other room anymore or am I just getting extremely unlucky

Grapplejack fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Apr 7, 2021

Bloody Pom
Jun 5, 2011




Kawalimus posted:

You can turn both of them into The Lost if you want to.

Forgotten vs the Super Secret Boss was so fun. Just a hard counter to its bullshit. So satisfying to crush.

Tainted Forgotten is even more of a hard counter if you can get that far. Just lob your skeleton into his hitbox and start mashing attack while dodging.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Grapplejack posted:

lmao jesus christ the new loving boss rush

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_nPp64OrBc

e: wait does the chest not give you chests every other room anymore or am I just getting extremely unlucky
I got a lot in the dark room yesterday but my luck score was really high.

Bloody Pom
Jun 5, 2011




The changes to Satanic Bible are nuts. Any floor you use it on causes the boss item to become a devil deal, and taking it doesn't impact your angel room chances.

Carpator Diei
Feb 26, 2011


Irony Be My Shield posted:

It doesn't actually increase the size of your hitbox. Pretty distressing though.
The Stompy transformation that you get when eating three of the pills was also buffed; it now lets you crush blocks as if you had Thunder Thighs or Leo. The larger character sprite is a bit of a weird psychological thing, but the actual effect of the pill is entirely positive (especially when you're The Forgotten, because apparently it does affect the hitbox of the bone club).

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Carpator Diei posted:

The Stompy transformation that you get when eating three of the pills was also buffed; it now lets you crush blocks as if you had Thunder Thighs or Leo. The larger character sprite is a bit of a weird psychological thing, but the actual effect of the pill is entirely positive (especially when you're The Forgotten, because apparently it does affect the hitbox of the bone club).
So if you get One Makes You Smaller and then One Makes You Larger you'll be at your original size but with a smaller hitbox?

ArfJason
Sep 5, 2011


spent most of today playing the lost and due to not getting the right pickups i went beast route. dont take ocular rift if youre planning to do that cause the harbingers are a loving disaster with it. For having 5 lives left i made it all the way to beast itself before getting murked.

Carpator Diei
Feb 26, 2011


No Wave posted:

So if you get One Makes You Smaller and then One Makes You Larger you'll be at your original size but with a smaller hitbox?
Oh god, I think that's actually the case I don't even want to imagine how it interacts with the Pluto item.

Carpator Diei fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Apr 7, 2021

Pixeltendo
Mar 2, 2012




Speaking of those items, how do you unlock the planetarium?

apophenium
Apr 13, 2009


Pixeltendo posted:

Speaking of those items, how do you unlock the planetarium?

You have to collect three astrology sign items in the same run.

Evil Kit
May 29, 2013

I'm viable ladies.


I've never done Greedier mode and wow. Or maybe it's just been too long since I fought Ultra Greed

Dr. Mantis Toboggan
May 5, 2003



apophenium posted:

You have to collect three astrology sign items in the same run.

Magic 8 ball and crystal ball count, as well.

Kawalimus
Jan 17, 2008

Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism


I've unlocked my full suite of broken weirdos. Now tomorrow I'll start working on the challenges

goferchan
Feb 8, 2004



No Wave posted:

So if you get One Makes You Smaller and then One Makes You Larger you'll be at your original size but with a smaller hitbox?

I believe your hitbox can grow from OMLY pills or Magic Mushroom or whatever if you've already shrunk your character, it just can't ever get any bigger than it's original size. So the effect is slightly detrimental because it cancels out the positive effects of shrinking, but not nearly as bad as you'd assume it is.

(except the psychological effect -- i always play like poo poo and kill myself with a big isaac)

goferchan
Feb 8, 2004



New patch out--

Highlights include a nerf to the darkness in Curse of Darkness, blue fires back to the old soul heart drop rate (and there are a LOT of blue fires on the Antibirth path, I noticed) and you can once again underpay for devil deals that cost more soul hearts than you have.

DOPE FIEND KILLA G
Jun 4, 2011



looks like the problem with XL floors on the ascend should be fixed now

Sharkitten
Jan 14, 2010

If you're afraid of dying, how can you live!?



well at least they're actively patching it

Prop Wash
Jun 12, 2010





Underpaying the devil was fun and always felt good to do, so it was a bit inexplicable to me when it was removed. Reps has been good overall but there were a few little things where it was like "why would they make the deliberate choice to change that?" I'm glad to see they're open to walking back some of those.

I'm not much of a Keeper fan (my post-it note pretty much just has the marks I needed to do the thing) but wow is Tainted Keeper a lot of fun. Every room turns into this madcap dash to grab pennies and getting good at that aspect enables you to start spending and getting overpowered.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


I think this devil change only really matters for dead cat and other extra life mechanics, right? Or are there other use cases?

Carpator Diei
Feb 26, 2011


No Wave posted:

I think this devil change only really matters for dead cat and other extra life mechanics, right? Or are there other use cases?
It matters for all items that grant health, assuming the health is still added before you die; for instance, if all you've left is one Soul Heart, you can spend it on Ceremonial Robes and walk away with three Black Hearts.

SkeletonHero
Sep 7, 2010

Skeleton War 2020


Some devil room items grant soul/sin hearts on pickup (The Pact, Ceremonial Robes, Abaddon, there are probably some others) so you will actually gain hearts before you die.

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No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


Oh I forgot how many there were. Huge buff then. Kind of needed, I was starting to force angel rooms.

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