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Harlock
Jan 15, 2006

Tap "A" to drink!!!



If you don't have a local library that carries it, you can nab a copy of the book for roughly $4-5 on Amazon.

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Salvor_Hardin
Sep 13, 2005

I want to go protest.


Nap Ghost

Aww it's not on audio. :(

Greg Brock
Feb 28, 2008



Just wondering what you guys think of Chris Jaffe's "Evaluating Baseball's Managers".

leokitty
Apr 5, 2005

I live. I die. I live again.

My copy of The Lords of the Realm arrived so I'm going to start reading it tomorrow. :)

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair


leokitty posted:

My copy of The Lords of the Realm arrived so I'm going to start reading it tomorrow. :)

I started it today on the way home from work and it's definitely not leaden prose.

Kundus
Oct 29, 2014


http://www.halfhill.com/inflation_js.html

I used this for the early $ conversions. Admittedly inexact (especially pre-1913), so use some big honkin' error bars, but good enough for me.

"The first recorded owner's wail over salaries came in 1881...The first recorded salary cap came in 1889. The owners set top pay at $2,500..."

$82k

Twin Cinema
Jun 1, 2006



Playoffs are no big deal,
don't have a crap attack.


I bypassed ordering it online entirely, because I happened to be at my old campus and picked up a copy at the library (still have library privileges until 2018!), so I am ready to start reading at any time.

Good Dog
Oct 16, 2008

Who threw this cat at me?

Clapping Larry

I did not vote but decided I would buy whatever book that wins because I vaguely enjoy reading and hate money.

Got the book today and holy gently caress this is a big book. :negative:

tadashi
Feb 20, 2006



I read 10% of it while also dozing off on a short plane flight so it definitely moves.

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair


I'm also about 10% through and holy poo poo some of these quotes are amazing.

Deathlove
Feb 20, 2003



Pillbug

Got mine from the library earlier this week and it's already great, and I'm only 10% in!

tadashi
Feb 20, 2006



" In the nineties, Baltimore’s Camden Yards and Chicago’s Comiskey Park would take ballparks still further..."

I thought Comiskey has always been considered the last of the dinosaurs when it comes to 70s- 80's styles stadiums? I realize it was rather new when the book was written...

Pat Clements
Feb 10, 2008


My assumption is that Comiskey gets lumped in there because it was the first MLB park built expressly for baseball by HOK Sports/Populous, who begin the retro park boom.

It was also the first baseball-only park built since Kauffman.

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair


So, my mental image of Ted Turner is entirely based off of Will Forte riding a stuffed buffalo around Conan's show.

Reading about him in this book has done thing to change this. Is it OK that I think he's awesome and hilarious?

Inspector_666 fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Nov 18, 2014

leokitty
Apr 5, 2005

I live. I die. I live again.

Sounds like everyone is getting through the book very quickly. I'm about 25% of the way done and will probably be finished before the end of the month.

tinstaach
Aug 3, 2010

MAGNetic AttITUDE




I'm hoping my Amazon order gets here by Thanksgiving :( I'm flying home for the long weekend so hopefully I can knock out a lot of it then.

tadashi
Feb 20, 2006



It's absurd that this book is $20 on Kindle. I'm happy for the author, though. I hope he's getting a fair share unlike everything else on Amazon.

alpha_destroy
Mar 22, 2010

Billy Butler: Fat Guy by Day, Doubles Machine by Night


leokitty posted:

Sounds like everyone is getting through the book very quickly. I'm about 25% of the way done and will probably be finished before the end of the month.

I just got my copy in the mail the other day, so I just started. I will probably be the last person through it since it is crunch time now for school, so I have whole other books I need to finish first. By no means am I asking everybody to hold back for me, but I might not be finished until mid-December.

So far things seem pretty cool though.

Good Dog
Oct 16, 2008

Who threw this cat at me?

Clapping Larry

I read really slow and haven't had too many opportunities to sit down and read because I'm not buried in 15' of snow, but I finished chapter 3 or 4 or whatever covered most of the dodgers stuff.

RC and Moon Pie
May 5, 2011



Inspector_666 posted:

So, my mental image of Ted Turner is entirely based off of Will Forte riding a stuffed buffalo around Conan's show.

Reading about him in this book has done thing to change this. Is it OK that I think he's awesome and hilarious?

I haven't picked up Lords of the Realm yet to know the context, but if you want prime Ted Turner We Could've Finished Last Without You. Written just before the Braves got good by former Braves and Hawks PR man, Bob Hope (not the famous one). For years, Atlanta hated Turner because he was a tightwad and meddled too much*. Once he opened the pocketbooks, he became Our Ted.

* Hope's book goes into the fiasco when Turner tried to sabotage the Hawks so he could move them to Charlotte. It backfired when the ragtag team was actually pretty decent.

Twin Cinema
Jun 1, 2006



Playoffs are no big deal,
don't have a crap attack.


I am not sure that we need to finish the book in its entirety to have some discussion of it. I finished a huge portion of it last night (or what felt like a huge portion, but it was only the first three chapters). It's funny that the issue of player's salaries is not a recent invention, but something that has been around since the beginning of the game. Also funny how some of the players were so conservative, that they took issue with their own pay. I don't have the book in front of me, but there was the one player who had issue with accepting a $100K salary because he didn't have a good year.

tadashi
Feb 20, 2006



Twin Cinema posted:

I am not sure that we need to finish the book in its entirety to have some discussion of it. I finished a huge portion of it last night (or what felt like a huge portion, but it was only the first three chapters). It's funny that the issue of player's salaries is not a recent invention, but something that has been around since the beginning of the game. Also funny how some of the players were so conservative, that they took issue with their own pay. I don't have the book in front of me, but there was the one player who had issue with accepting a $100K salary because he didn't have a good year.

I don't want to turn this into a political discussion, but people working against their own best financial interests is pretty relevant in today's economy.

Xenophon
Jun 28, 2003

by FactsAreUseless


Grimey Drawer

It's happened recently, too - Gil Meche, who retired and gave up $12 million because he was injured coming into the last year of his contract, comes to mind.

I just ordered the book because I hadn't seen this thread, but I'm excited to start when I get it!

Kundus
Oct 29, 2014


Gil Meche was so bad because of how explicitly he rewarded the goddamn awful org that broke him. More recent examples of just flat out walking away from millions would be Ryan Dempster and AJ Burnett. And it's not just guys who've already made bank who are doing it. Gerrit Cole turned down Yankee money out of high school in favor of :airquote:the college experience.

What's the Matter with KansasPitchers?

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair


I'm not sure if I'm really going to call somebody an idiot for going to college over right into the MLB.

Moe_Rahn
Jun 1, 2006

I got a question
why they hatin' on me?
I ain't did nothin' to 'em
but count this money
and put my team on
got my whole clique stunnin'
boy wassup
yeeeeeaaaaaahhhh

Kundus posted:

Gil Meche was so bad because of how explicitly he rewarded the goddamn awful org that broke him. More recent examples of just flat out walking away from millions would be Ryan Dempster and AJ Burnett. And it's not just guys who've already made bank who are doing it. Gerrit Cole turned down Yankee money out of high school in favor of :airquote:the college experience.

What's the Matter with KansasPitchers?
Mark McGwire got a two-year, 30 million dollar extension before the 2001 season, and retired before it even kicked in.

Kundus
Oct 29, 2014


Inspector_666 posted:

I'm not sure if I'm really going to call somebody an idiot for going to college over right into the MLB.

I came across as too harsh then, I wouldn't call him an idiot. As Twin Cinema mentioned to start this discussion, it's not a problem on an individual or even generational level, so the names were examples. Also I don't know if there's a much difference in quality of life between good NCAA baseball and the minors.

Groucho Marxist
Dec 9, 2005

Do you smell what The Mauk is cooking?


Life on the road in the minors is incredibly lovely. A drat dorm room is a much nicer housing situation than living in a ran down apartment with 3 other ballplayers.

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair


Also if you end up not making it as a MLB player you have a degree (from UCLA in Cole's case.)

Saying "I'm going to go to college rather than betting I will become an MLB starter" is not working against your own interests.

Harlock
Jan 15, 2006

Tap "A" to drink!!!



I wouldn't call them an idiot, but I thought (from what I heard) most ML contracts had some sort of clause to pay for college tuition. If you were truly elite enough to go right from HS to the Majors, wouldn't you go to maximize earning potential? If it doesn't work out, you have a paid college tuition to fall back on.

Each person would obviously be different, if they don't feel mature enough, or want more polish/development, etc. I guess just talking about the top of the top.

Kundus
Oct 29, 2014


If Cole signed with the Yankees and flamed out in the minors, he'd have $4 million.
If Cole had flamed out in his 3 years at UCLA, he'd have nothing.

That's the unnecessary risk/bad decision I was referring to. I'd consider the chance a college pitcher gets broken higher than a minor leaguer. I don't know if UCLA is known for riding its pitchers to death though.

Groucho Marxist
Dec 9, 2005

Do you smell what The Mauk is cooking?


Cole ended up becoming the first overall pick so he's about the worst example you could use.

Kundus
Oct 29, 2014


Groucho Marxist posted:

Cole ended up becoming the first overall pick so he's about the worst example you could use.

Bad process, good results!

leokitty
Apr 5, 2005

I live. I die. I live again.

Gerrit Cole's dad did some math and figured out that if he went to college he'd get more money. And he was right.

oldfan
Jul 22, 2007

"Mathewson pitched against Cincinnati yesterday. Another way of putting it is that Cincinnati lost a game of baseball."


In addition to everything else leo and Groucho already said, just like in football, the NCAA allows disability insurance to protect high dollar value players from severe injury or loss of skill while playing in college. And Cole's family is well off to begin with.

tadashi
Feb 20, 2006



Are there any recent MLB players you all know of who had families that couldn't cover college costs so they sacrificed their college eligibility and took late-round bonus money because they didn't have a choice? I know there are players who have done that because they just want to go pro but are there any players who have said they wanted to go to college but could not for financial reasons? I assume this has happened I just can't think of a player.

Kundus
Oct 29, 2014


I concede! I used a bad example!

So, help me out here. Are there any players who turned down a big signing bonus where it failed? Appel did it, but it worked out fine for him. And I didn't know about the insurance, interesting.

Inspector_666
Oct 7, 2003

benny with the good hair


Harlock posted:

I wouldn't call them an idiot, but I thought (from what I heard) most ML contracts had some sort of clause to pay for college tuition. If you were truly elite enough to go right from HS to the Majors, wouldn't you go to maximize earning potential? If it doesn't work out, you have a paid college tuition to fall back on.

I hadn't heard about this before, and if that is the case then it would make more sense to go right into the majors assuming the tuition was 100% iron clad guaranteed.

I still think that opting to go to college rather than straight into the draft is a very different beast than "Don't give me a raise because my ERA wasn't elite."

Harlock
Jan 15, 2006

Tap "A" to drink!!!



Karsten Whitson is probably a recent example on a smaller scale, I guess.

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Twin Cinema
Jun 1, 2006



Playoffs are no big deal,
don't have a crap attack.


Kundus posted:

I concede! I used a bad example!

So, help me out here. Are there any players who turned down a big signing bonus where it failed? Appel did it, but it worked out fine for him. And I didn't know about the insurance, interesting.

Is Matt Harrington the player you are looking for?

Drafted in 2000, 7th overall. Wanted a $4.95m signing bonus, ultimately turned down $4m.

Re-entered the draft, and was drafted in the second round by the Padres. Turned down their offer of $1.2m.

Drafted in 2002, this time in the 13th round by the Rays, and he didn't agree to a contract.

He was drafted in 03 and 04, but didn't sign.

He continued to play (he only sat out the 2001 season), but he was terrible, which is why he kept sliding down the draft.

e: Here is his story: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=090423/harrington

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