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regfairfield posted:The Giants and Rangers are both big market destinations that could use a pitcher, then you have teams like the White Sox or the Mariners that have enough elite talent that adding a Scherzer type could be huge. Rangers don't have the payroll room to sign Scherzer/Lester. Maybe Shields but even that is probably a stretch.
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Nov 5, 2014 05:43
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I've seen a couple people guesstimating Arb numbers in this thread. It is probably worth your while to refer to this MLBTR post as at least a starting point. Their model is very accurate. Also, Pirates effortpost on the way.
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Nov 5, 2014 08:00
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Mornacale posted:I've seen a couple people guesstimating Arb numbers in this thread. It is probably worth your while to refer to this MLBTR post as at least a starting point. Their model is very accurate. I would have put more effort into my Twins arb numbers but I don't really expect them to make a big enough splash to come anywhere near their payroll limitations, and short of somehow signing Scherzer, they probably shouldn't. That is a pretty neat tool, though.
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Nov 5, 2014 15:42
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Grozz Nuy posted:The Giants don't want to add a lot of payroll this offseason, they'll try really hard to keep Sandoval and I think they'll only be in on the big-money pitchers if somebody else outbids them. The Giants have a ton of dead money coming off the books in 2016 so if someone is willing to take a backloaded deal it makes a lot of sense to have another guy to hold down the rotation instead of hoping Cain becomes good again.
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Nov 5, 2014 15:58
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regfairfield posted:The Giants have a ton of dead money coming off the books in 2016 so if someone is willing to take a backloaded deal it makes a lot of sense to have another guy to hold down the rotation instead of hoping Cain becomes good again. They Giants are now in re-building mode with an expectation to contend in 2016.
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Nov 5, 2014 17:36
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regfairfield posted:The Giants have a ton of dead money coming off the books in 2016 "A ton" is as much as will get you one outfielder or something. Yes, Lincecum and Hudson come off the books, but the Posey extension kicks into gear and offsets a lot of that, and the cost of Brandons will go up (and pushing away Belt's free agency might be a goal worth throwing money at). And even with a core rotation of Bum/Cain/Petit, assuming the great Petit starter experiment works next season, you still need to fill the back-end in but the farm should be able to do that if they don't freak out and trade Crick. More relevant to the Giants is that the stadium debt is paid off in 2017. It isn't that high, but costs about as same as a non-core player. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Nov 5, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2014 18:31
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Craptacular! posted:"A ton" is as much as will get you one outfielder or something. Yes, Lincecum and Hudson come off the books, but the Posey extension kicks into gear and offsets a lot of that, and the cost of Brandons will go up (and pushing away Belt's free agency might be a goal worth throwing money at). And even with a core rotation of Bum/Cain/Petit, assuming the great Petit starter experiment works next season, you still need to fill the back-end in but the farm should be able to do that if they don't freak out and trade Crick. Even with the Brandons the Giants are only at ~100 million for 2016 since they're losing Scutaro and some fairly expensive relievers that will probably be replaced. Yes they still need a 3B, an outfielder and some assorted parts but there's still plenty of room to grow. regfairfield fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Nov 5, 2014 |
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Nov 5, 2014 19:23
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I have no changes to make to the Cubs; they are perfectly set up for their once a decade heartbreaking failed playoff run before they reset back comfortably into last place. The only important change is bring back old style, the overpriced, lovely beer that matches the product on the field.
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Nov 6, 2014 02:24
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Pittsburgh Pirates 2014 Record: 88-74 (2nd in NLC) | Pythag: 87-75 Offense: 108 wRC+ (4th in MLB) | Defense: 631 RA (15th) Overview: In 2013, the Pirates blew away a record-setting streak of 20 losing seasons with a 94-win season and pushed the pennant-winning Cardinals to the limit in the NLDS, largely on the back of unsustainable pitching success. Despite an expected regression from the pitching staff, the 2014 iteration of the team managed to put together a solid 88-win season due to the emergence of one of the league's best offenses. They made the wildcard again, but this time were eliminated by Madison Bumgarner and the eventual World Champions. Featuring the NL's best everyday player and a host of exciting young players, the Pirates' time is now; anything less than a serious contender for the NL Central title will be a failure in 2015. Payroll: Alas, it's impossible to discuss the Pirates without talking about the payroll. Historically cheap, ownership has been preaching for years about a willingness to spend once performance, and hence attendance, increases. After two seasons of great turnouts at PNC Park, not to mention a national TV windfall and draconian limits on draft spending, fans should be able to expect a cap in the $100M range. This would represent an increase of nearly $30M compared to 2014 but, frankly, they can use every penny and more. Departures: C Russell Martin (32 in 2015) - An elite defensive catcher, Martin's 2014 was shortened by injury but also featured what may have been the best offense of his career. The only credible starting catcher on the free agent market. Received a Qualifying Offer. SS Clint Barmes (36) - All-glove shortstop who can hit just well enough to be a nice backup. SP Francisco Liriano (31) - Liriano was a successful reclamation project who was arguably the Pirates' best pitcher in both 2013 and 2014. Finished last year strong after dealing with a June oblique injury. Received a Qualifying Offer. SP Edinson Volquez (31) - Another reclamation project of some success. Put up a nice ERA in 2014 but peripheral numbers were shaky. RP John Axford (32) - Former closer acquired on waivers and already cut rather than being non-tendered. RP Jeanmar Gomez (27) - Swingman sinkerballer traded from the Indians before 2013, also recently cut. Current Roster: Catcher Chris Stewart (33; $1.3M arb) Tony Sanchez (27; pre-arb) Elias Diaz (24; minors) With Russ Martin's departure, catcher is a major position of need for the 2015 Pirates. Chris Stewart, despite an unnatural number of singles in 2014, doesn't have the bat to be a legitimate starter, and for all that his defense is purportedly excellent it's always seemed a little off to me. Tony Sanchez's bat is a huge question mark, and at some point over the last two years he developed the yips to the point where he was airmailing throws to 1B to complete strikeouts. Diaz is hopefully the catcher of the future, but with only 37 AAA plate appearances it's unlikely he breaks camp with the team. First Base LHB Ike Davis (28; $4.4M arb) LHB Pedro Alvarez (28; $5.5M arb) RHB Gaby Sanchez (31; $2.7M arb) LHB Andrew Lambo (26; pre-arb) SH Josh Bell (22; minors) The Pirates will almost certainly enter 2015 with a platoon at 1B, as they have for the last 4 or so years. The big question is who will be in it. Gaby Sanchez was pretty horrible last season, even against LHP. If Alvarez can't play 3B, then he and Davis are both so-so-hitting lefty platoon first basemen with some upside. Lambo is essentially the same, except he can play the outfield and he's untested and younger. Josh Bell has just moved from LF to 1B in the AFL and will play there at Indianapolis next year; hopefully he is starting at first by 2016 at the latest. Second Base Neil Walker (29; $8.6M arb) Josh Harrison (27; $2.2M arb) Neil Walker is good. He will pick up some minor injuries this season that keep him out for 10-20 games. Third Base LHB Pedro Alvarez (28; $5.5M arb) RHB Josh Harrison (27; $2.2M arb) So, Pedro Alvarez was already a mediocre defensive third baseman and then in 2014 he got the yips and completely lost his ability to throw accurately to first. Josh Harrison was a fringe utilityman and then in 2014 he got a bunch of playtime in RF/2B/3B and became Ben Zobrist. IF Pedro's psychological issues can get worked out and he can play 3B, I think the Pirates are best served by platooning Alvarez and Harrison here, and letting Harrison operate as a super-sub against RHP. If not, then Harrison will have to be the starter and I'll have to pray he doesn't regress too hard. Shortstop Jordy Mercer (28; pre-arb) Dean Anna (28; minors) Mercer is an average player on a league minimum contract, cool. Josh Harrison can back up here, but it's probably best if he doesn't. Dean Anna is minor league utility infield depth. Left Field Andrew McCutchen (28; $10M) Travis Snider (27; $2M arb) Josh Harrison (27; $2.2M arb) Jose Tabata (26; $4M) Okay Look. Andrew McCutchen is a freaking superstar. Andrew McCutchen is the core around which the Pirates revolve. Andrew McCutchen had the worst outfield arm in all of baseball in 2014. The secret is out and opponents, especially in the division, simply run roughshod over him. The Pirates have another star OF with better range and a top-tier arm and they need to put him in CF. If Clint Hurdle can't get McCutchen to play without giving him special baby treatment, find a manager who can. I'll cover Snider in RF. Jose Tabata is an example of an early extension that busted, but on the plus side the Pirates can DFA him at will now because he'll never elect FA and nobody will ever claim that contract, so he serves as great minor league depth. Center Field Starling Marte (26; $1M) Andrew McCutchen (28; $10M) Gregory Polanco (23; pre-arb) Mel Rojas Jr (25; minors) Starling Marte owns a lot and he needs to start in center field. Either McCutchen or Polanco can credibly play CF if he is out. Rojas Jr is a lower-tier prospect who had a minor breakout year in AA & AAA in 2014, and projects as a decent 4th-OF type who can play all three positions. Right Field Gregory Polanco (23; pre-arb) Travis Snider (27; $2M arb) Andrew Lambo (26; pre-arb) Gregory Polanco is the Pirates' top prospect (yes I know he isn't eligible for prospect lists anymore), and though he struggled to adjust in 2014 he's the presumptive starter next year. Snider had something of a breakout last season with a 121 wRC+ and can be a really nice 4th OF and Polanco insurance, or potential trade bait. See 1B for Lambo. Starting Pitchers RHP Gerrit Cole (24; pre-arb) RHP Charlie Morton (30; $8M) - DL RHP Vance Worley (27; $2.9M arb) LHP Jeff Locke (27; pre-arb) RHP Stolmy Pimentel (25; pre-arb) RHP Brandon Cumpton (27; pre-arb) RHP Casey Sadler (24; pre-arb) RHP Nick Kingham (23; minors) RHP Adrian Sampson (23; minors) RHP Jameson Taillon (22; minors) With Charlie Morton returning from hip labrum surgery, the Pirates are currently looking at Gerrit Cole-Vance Worley-Jeff Locke as their three most reliable starters. None of Locke, Cumpton, or Sadler have a ceiling higher than a #4 guy. Kingham, Sampson, and Taillon are all prospects of some promise, but only Kingham has a shot to break camp in the Majors and he probably needs more time at AAA. Pimentel is a huge question mark. This is a disaster scenario. Bullpen CL Mark Melancon (30; $6M* arb) SU Tony Watson (30; $2M arb) RP John Holdzkom (27; pre-arb) RP Justin Wilson (27; pre-arb) RP Jared Hughes (29; $1.1M arb) RP Bobby LaFromboise (29; pre-arb) LR whoever doesn't make the rotation, probably Pimentel Melancon and Watson have been very good. Holdzkom is a great story with some promise. Wilson is a lefty who throws hard but walks a lot of guys. Hughes is a sinkerballer. LaFromboise means "the raspberry" and is probably a LOOGY. There's some minor league depth guys I could list but literally no one cares about minor league depth RPs. * Melancon's projected salary at MLBTR is $7.6M, but his 2014 line contained an unusual combination of Holds and Saves that is likely to throw off the system. Human projections have him closer to $5M; I've chosen to split the difference. Total cost: ~$70M Offseason Plan: 1) Figure out if Pedro Alvarez can throw to first. If he can throw to first, then he platoons at 3B and makes life a lot easier! If not... 1b) If Pedro Alvarez cannot throw to first, then trade him or non-tender him. Ship him to some team that needs a 1B or DH, or thinks they can fix him, get a reliever or a lottery ticket and save some money. 2) Bring back Clint Barmes for $1.5M. The Pirates need a glove-first backup SS, Barmes has been a Pirate for 3 years, perfect. I'm docking him $500k off his salary last season for being a year older and dealing with some injuries this year. 3) Offer Russ Martin a 4-year, $60M contract. This is an overpay: he is a catcher in his 30s and he's not going to repeat the career year he just had. I also expect him to get even more from the Dodgers or Cubs or Red Sox, so I will assume he doesn't return. 4) Under that assumption, consider a trade for a catcher such as Miguel Montero or Evan Gattis. Montero is apparently being shopped, though he's way overpaid and the D-backs would need to eat salary. I don't like to wishcast trades, so I am also going to assume this doesn't happen. 5) Acquire three starting pitchers. One needs to be better than Gerrit Cole: Kuroda, Lester, Liriano, Scherzer, Shields. Try not to sign anyone too old for too long, but a top-line starter is THE need of this club. Alternately, trade for someone such as Cole Hamels. Another should be a mid-rotation starter: Liriano, Burnett, Hammel, McCarthy, Peavy (maybe). Finally, take a flyer on a reclamation project: Anderson, Billingsley, Floyd, Johnson, Lewis, Masterson, even Volquez if he's cheap again. I'd expect these to cost a minimum of $25M, and I think the Pirates should be willing to go up to ~$42M (25 + 12 + 5). 5b) If Martin did sign, then his money has to come out of the SP budget. Ditch the reclamation project if it costs more than a couple million and ditch Lester/Scherzer/Shields unless you can somehow get them unexpectedly cheap. 6) If a cool reliever is going to come cheap then by all means snatch them up, but they're relievers so who can say. 7) Assuming the Pirates internally still project great things for Gregory Polanco--this offseason would represent a pretty great opportunity to extend him. He didn't set the world on fire in his first half-season in the bigs, so if he'd ever sign at a discount it would likely be now. Especially if you end up spending less than budgeted for SPs Don't extend anyone else, though (barring an unusually team-friendly opportunity, ofc): Cole isn't gonna sign anyway and he's not going to hit his upside, Alvarez & Davis are obviously complete question marks, you can't give Snider a long-term deal to be a 4th OF, and Walker & Mercer are both cost-controlled into their 30s already. (The latter part of this post is really dedicated to all the Pirates fans who always clamor for a Neil Walker extension because He's From Pittsburgh, despite being injury-prone and under team control through age 30.) Projected Roster: C Chris Stewart (33; $1.3M arb) 1B Ike Davis (28; $4.4M arb) 2B Neil Walker (29; $8.6M arb) 3B Pedro Alvarez (28; $5.5M arb) SS Jordy Mercer (28; pre-arb) LF Andrew McCutchen (28; $10M) CF Starling Marte (26; $1M) RF Gregory Polanco (23; pre-arb) C Tony Sanchez (27; pre-arb) 1B Gaby Sanchez (31; $2.7M arb) * UT Josh Harrison (27; $2.2M arb) ** OF Travis Snider (27; $2M arb) SP1 e.g. James Shields (***) SP2 Gerrit Cole (24; pre-arb) SP3 e.g. Jason Hammel (***) SP4 Vance Worley (27; $2.9M arb) SP5 Jeff Locke (27; pre-arb)/e.g. Justin Masterson (***) [DL Charlie Morton (30; $8M)] CL Mark Melancon (30; $6M* arb) SU Tony Watson (30; $2M arb) RP John Holdzkom (27; pre-arb) RP Justin Wilson (27; pre-arb) RP Jared Hughes (29; $1.1M arb) RP Bobby LaFromboise (29; pre-arb) LR Stolmy Pimentel (25; pre-arb) + $4M for Jose Tabata + $6M for the rest of the 40-man roster * Starting 1B vs LHP ** Starting 3B vs LHP; should get spot starts at 2B/3B/LF/RF vs RHP depending on how well he hits. *** Combined cost $25-42M Total cost: $92.2-109.2M That roster can contend. loving get it done, Neal. e: Added a piece about extending Gregory Polanco that I'd forgotten to talk about, fixed some formatting. Mornacale fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Nov 6, 2014 |
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Nov 6, 2014 03:16
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Texas Rangers Offseason Reconstruction Chat: Putting Humpty Back Together Again 2014 Season Summary  2015 Big League Assets Starting Pitching: SP1-Yu Darvish. True ace, most important player, my future gay husband. SP2-Derek Holland. If you believe 2013 is the real Dutch, he's a very good #2. Missed most of 2014 thanks to stupidity, pitched extremely well when he did play. SP3/4/5-??? Internal candidates: Nick Tepesch- 25 year old RHP. Injuries have put him into the rotation in both of the last two years. Pitched 126 innings at 4.36 ERA, but somehow managed a K/9 of only 4. Would feel fine if he ends up being our 5th starter. Nick Martinez- 24 year old RHP. Played 2B at Fordham, this will be his third year as a pitcher. Pitched 140 innings at 4.55 ERA, also had a low K rate. He'd only pitched a handful of innings above A-ball going into last season and when you consider the circumstances he performed quite well, but he has a very limited ceiling. Lisalverto Bonilla- 24 year old RHP. Came over in the Michael Young trade, hasn't gotten much press but looked decent in September. Mostly pitched relief for the Rangers in the minors, good K numbers. Fringey but maybe. Luke Jackson- 23 year old RHP. Pitched extremely well in AA last year, got murdered after his promotion to the PCL. Talented enough to end up on the MLB roster eventually, but whether it's as a SP or RP remains to be seen. Alex "Chi Chi" Gonzalez- 22 year old RHP. Legit prospect, killed it in AA last year, might be ready to make the leap. I'd expect to see him in 2016 if not next year. Also note: Martin Perez- Owns but his elbow exploded last year because it couldn't contain his coolness. Should hopefully return at midseason but who knows how good he'll be right away. Matt Harrison-  Bullpen Nefi Feliz will probably resume closer duties. Rest of it will probably be filled out with random org guys. Not really worried about it. Infield: 1B-Prince Fielder. Got hurt and wasn't very good before that, probably because he was hurt. Should be a huge boost if he can come back healthy and strong, as 1B was a black hole of despair in 2014 without him. Pretty sure I started 3 games in August. 2B-Rougned Odor. Stud with a funny name. Got rushed way ahead of schedule because of the injury to Jurickson Profar last year, played well enough that it's a safe bet he'll be back for the everyday job in 2015 despite still being a tiny baby. Guy is gonna be really good someday, it's just a question of when. SS-Elvis Andrus. loving Elvis. Looked like a star in the making, has regressed after getting an expensive extension. Possible trade candidate but it would be selling him at the nadir of his value. 3B-Adrian Beltre.  Also note: Jurickson Profar- former #1 prospect in baseball, spent all of this year getting hurt and then reinjuring himself. Still will be only 22 next season, but I would expect him to start in AAA next year. Luis Sardinas- Odor’s double play partner in the minors, promoted at the same time, and unlike Odor, Sardinas looked his age. His glove at least is for real, though. Has a future in the bigs even if it’s only as a UIF, but is a virtual guarantee to return to the minors next year barring an Elvis trade. Outfield CF-Leonys Martin. Best defensive CF you’ve never heard of. Fast as gently caress, arm like an orbital laser, voice so high it makes your sphincter clench on flyballs that overlap with the corner outfielders’ territory. Hasn’t figured out how to hit lefties yet, may never, but if his bat ever reaches its potential he’ll be the best player on this team. COF1-Shin-Soo Choo. Internet baseball media already dubbed this signing a colossal failure, but I’m not that worried. In the month or so he was healthy, Choo was loving great. If he heals up properly and stays healthy, he’s gonna be worth what he gets next year. COF2-??? DH ??? Catcher C1-Robinson Chirinos. Really solid for what he is. Low OBP, dingers, controls the opposing run game with an iron fist. Fine as either the primary or backup catcher. Bats RH if a platoon situation develops. C2-??? Tomas Telis- Candidate, weird/interesting player. Switch-hits, pretty good BA/OBP in the minors, piddly power. Might have a shot at the backup job. More likely we will just sign a random Backup Catcher Guy on a cheap one year deal. Other Mitch Moreland- DH/backup 1B candidate, has never really delivered on his potential for more than a month at a time. Non-tender very possible. Ryan Rua- 24 year old 2B/3B/1B/COF. College player often overlooked in a farm system full of extreme boom-bust types, but has good pop for a guy who can play 2B and has hit well in every minor league stop as well as in the bigs in September. Probably will begin as a bench bat/4C guy but could be tapped as the everyday 2B guy if the Rangers wanted to do some kind of crazy Odor trade, at least until Profar has shown he’s okay. Minor League Assets http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/evaluating-the-prospects-texas-rangers/ is a pretty good rundown of the system. I’ll just say that- Joey Gallo(3B), Jorge Alfaro(C), Nomar Mazara(COF)- these guys aren’t going anywhere outside of a mythical Stanton trade. All could be starting in 2016, may see them later next year depending on how they do in AA to begin the year. So… 2015 needs? Starting pitching, COF, DH How do we fix? Nobody knows for sure what the budget is. FO statements have said payroll is unlikely to go up much if at all, and we’re unlikely to be active in the top of the FA market. However, the Rangers FO plays its cards really close to the chest and said much the same last year before trading for Prince and signing Choo. Might be telling the truth this time, but we’ll see. For purposes of this post, we’re gonna assume they non-tender Moreland and Alexei Ogando, which we’ll say gives us $20m to play with. Starting pitching is the top priority. At the top of the FA market, we’ve got Scherzer/Lester/Shields. With a top 10 pick, the QO is less of a discouragement, but any deals for the first two will have to be heavily backloaded and as the “budget” option I expect competition for Shields to be fierce. The first two virtually guarantee Darvish walks when his contract is up as well. Trading is the most likely avenue. The Realistic Plan 1. Trade for SP3 2. Bargain shop for SP4 3. Fill SP5 internally 4. Trade for COF 5. Bargain shop for DH or simply rotate it 1. SP trade targets: Cueto(I wish), Latos, Leake, Kennedy, Smzjdijajaar(no please), Buehrle(if the Jays ate a lot of money on it). Mostly targeting guys with a year left at $8-10m. Easier to pry without giving up premium prospects, can be replaced full-time by Martin Perez next year. 2. Bargain shop for one-year guys, like Justin Mastersonm, Brett Anderson, or Hiroki Kuroda. Ideally we don’t spend more than $5-7m here. If this guy busts, Perez can hopefully step in around midseason and be reasonably effective. Bringing Colby Lewis back would be good here too, since as noted previously, he pitched much better in the second half. 3. One of the Nicks is fine here. Maybe Gonzalez or Jackson will be ready to make the jump, but I doubt it. We want to avoid pitching both Nicks for an extended period of time if at all possible though. 4. Here we’d be targeting an affordable, controllable ML player(Evan Gattis would be good but it seems like everybody wants him, maybe the Braves might like Nick Williams or Lewis Brinson at CF as a centerpiece? I don't know) or ML-ready minor leaguer(maybe Steven Souza of the Nats?). Long term, a move like this would eventually allow us to shift Choo to DH/4th OF when Mazara is ready in a year or two and insures us against a Mazara bust. A pure LH platoon guy would also be a good target since Jeff Bannister might actually deploy them properly, unlike dear departed Wash. 5. If there’s money left over, we could sign someone like Michael Morse or Torii Hunter here, hopefully for not much more than $8m/year and hopefully for not more than 2 years. However, I’d feel better about doing a matchup rotation with half-days off, since as I said, Bannister can do this in a not-stupid way. Possible Crazy Moves 1. Dump Elvis Andrus and start Sardinas until Profar looks ready- we’d be selling Elvis extremely low, but this would clear $15m from the payroll projection, giving us room to make a play for Scherzer or Lester. Alternatively, we might be able to do a bad contract swap(Matt Kemp?) but it could be awkward, since again, Elvis’s value is at an all-time low. 2. Say gently caress it and go for Stanton again- I’ll try to avoid sounding like an Internet Red Sox Fan here, but the Rangers FO has a confirmed boner for him and supposedly made an offer in ’13 that got the Marlins baseball people to listen before Loria shut it down. If he was made available, everyone in the org is in play except for Gallo and Profar. I’d expect it would take at least Odor, Alfaro, and Gonzalez just to get in the bidding. 3. Trade Beltre- He’d have to bring back an awful lot and it would have to be pieces you could use in 2015 already, presumably a young SP and a COF. I don’t really see this happening, but if it did, you’d make Rua the everyday 3B, use the $18m you just cleared to sign Scherzer or Lester, and slot the new guys in at their respective positions. If everything lined up it could represent a net gain and allows you to promote Gallo in 2016, but it would have to be a very specific deal in order to be worth it. 4. Trade for a Philly Pitcher- A reunion with Cliff Lee or acquiring Hamels would both be cool, but pricy. If Amaro is still calling the shots on player trades, I wouldn’t bother. 5. Sign Melky Cabrera- I don't know how the gently caress we'd pay for this but it's possible. e: 6. Sign Yasmani Tomas- See above. We're said to like him but he's going to be expensive and risky and I'm gonna be pissed if we shell out for him when we let the White Sox beat us on Abreu last year. TheIncredulousHulk fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Nov 6, 2014 |
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Nov 6, 2014 03:47
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Isn't Prince Fielder's injury/surgery considered career-threatening, as well? Not to the extent that Matt Harrison's issue is but isn't it still a concern that he might never be back to his old self because of his neck? Would it make sense for the Rangers to sign Jason Hammel? He's not great but he's a ground-ball pitcher so that plays to their infield defense in theory. tadashi fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Nov 6, 2014 |
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Nov 6, 2014 15:02
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tadashi posted:Isn't Prince Fielder's injury/surgery considered career-threatening, as well? It's probably career shortening, though Fielder is signed all the way until he's, what, 36? I'm not a neck surgeon, but the fusion surgery that Fielder had done seems to be an operation that a whole bevy of pro wrestlers from the 90s and early 2000s had done (Edge, Rhyno, Lita, Chris Benoit, and Stone Cold Steve Austin.) There was a discussion about a decade ago over whether it was good or not, when Kurt Angle chose to skip fusion for some other largely untested technique due to the drawbacks of fusion like not being able to turn your head to the side as far as you used to be able to. Only one of those people had to retire at an age people would consider 'too soon' due to the neck issues, and he was a star of the stuntman garbage-to-the-head matches that used to be en vogue for that time. Prince might take some time off now and again in the last couple years of his contract; but he'll probably be productive, if not quite as productive, for the next several. Compared to pro wrestlers, he has the benefit of offseason. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Nov 6, 2014 |
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Nov 6, 2014 16:36
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Craptacular! posted:I'm not a neck surgeon, but the fusion surgery that Fielder had done seems to be an operation that a whole bevy of pro wrestlers from the 90s and early 2000s had done (Edge, Rhyno, Lita, Chris Benoit, and Stone Cold Steve Austin.) There was a discussion about a decade ago over whether it was good or not, when Kurt Angle chose to skip fusion for some other largely untested technique due to the drawbacks of fusion like not being able to turn your head to the side as far as you used to be able to. Only one of those people had to retire at an age people would consider 'too soon' due to the neck issues, and he was a star of the stuntman garbage-to-the-head matches that used to be en vogue for that time. Edge and Austin were like a year apart in age at most when they retired. IcePhoenix fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Nov 6, 2014 |
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Nov 6, 2014 17:12
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tadashi posted:Isn't Prince Fielder's injury/surgery considered career-threatening, as well? Not to the extent that Matt Harrison's issue is but isn't it still a concern that he might never be back to his old self because of his neck? Everything I've read has said there's almost no threat of it being career ending.
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Nov 6, 2014 18:05
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IcePhoenix posted:Edge and Austin were like a year apart in age at most when they retired. And both of them retired due to stenosis, which neck fusion really can't fix anyway.
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Nov 6, 2014 20:58
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IcePhoenix posted:Edge and Austin were like a year apart in age at most when they retired. Austin had a lot more damage and was working his 'safe' style of crowd brawls over technical matches due to his injuries for about five years. Edge has said in interviews that he thinks spotfests like TLC matches accelerated him to "oh dear god I have to quit right now" status. They don't have a guy just vacate a belt as champion unless they absolutely have to. Point is, at Fielder's age, and the schedule of MLB, he should be okay.
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Nov 6, 2014 21:00
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I don't know if it's really a comparable situation, because you don't necessarily need great athleticism to be a good pro wrestler.
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Nov 6, 2014 21:23
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Alan Trammell posted:I don't know if it's really a comparable situation, because you don't necessarily need great athleticism to be a good pro wrestler. The guys in question did a hell of a lot more than Prince, though. I'm convinced Prince will be mostly ok, I was just asking because I thought I read that his injury had some potential serious down sides.
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Nov 6, 2014 21:28
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Craptacular! posted:Austin had a lot more damage and was working his 'safe' style of crowd brawls over technical matches due to his injuries for about five years. Edge has said in interviews that he thinks spotfests like TLC matches accelerated him to "oh dear god I have to quit right now" status. They don't have a guy just vacate a belt as champion unless they absolutely have to. My point was mainly you saying that only one of them retired "too soon" I guess. If Fielder has a similar neck issue it might be pretty bad if it limits his field of turning his head because hitters have to turn their head almost 90 degrees when batting.
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Nov 6, 2014 23:31
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IcePhoenix posted:My point was mainly you saying that only one of them retired "too soon" I guess. Prince, unable to turn his head as much, opens his stance to reduce neck torque. In doing so, he unlocks the secrets of Andres Galarraga and bats .400 next year.
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Nov 7, 2014 00:01
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tadashi posted:Isn't Prince Fielder's injury/surgery considered career-threatening, as well? Not to the extent that Matt Harrison's issue is but isn't it still a concern that he might never be back to his old self because of his neck? I'd assume it's possible Prince just ends up being ruined but nobody in the loop has expressed serious concern publicly that I know of. Some assclowns I know have expressed hope that he'll have to retire from it to get out of his contract but goddamn we'll be back to having no first baseman again like always. I don't really like Hammel but he'd probably be fine for the right number of dollars and years. It's just a question of where that is. There are worse things to have than a serviceable BORP on a cheap multiyear deal even if you hope your rotation next year is either young prospects making league minimum, young guys on team friendly deals, and Darvish.
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Nov 7, 2014 02:29
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Double-posting but I'm just curious. Are there any fans of other teams with shortstop problems who would want your team to go after Elvis Andrus this offseason? If so, what do you think your team would/could pay? I ask because "Let's Trade Elvis" has been a popular way of poo poo-shooting among Rangers fans for awhile now, and while we're obviously not GMs I am curious how other people value him.
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Nov 8, 2014 05:02
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Double-posting but I'm just curious. Are there any fans of other teams with shortstop problems who would want your team to go after Elvis Andrus this offseason? If so, what do you think your team would/could pay? Holy poo poo there's 8 more years on that contract and his career OPS+ is 84
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Nov 8, 2014 05:41
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bawfuls posted:Holy poo poo there's 8 more years on that contract and his career OPS+ is 84 It's really funny to see the increasingly desperate ways fans try to defend that contract.
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Nov 8, 2014 05:54
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I will defend it by saying it won't prevent them from signing other players but maybe I'm wrong. They traded for prince and signed choo last year so I really doubt his contract affects them that much at all. But ya it looks worse and worse the more time goes on
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Nov 8, 2014 06:15
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bawfuls posted:Holy poo poo there's 8 more years on that contract and his career OPS+ is 84 I didn't realize until reading this that the extension is just now kicking in   i said god drat
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Nov 8, 2014 06:50
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What happened to the dude who made that incredibly crazy play running scoop play? Oh, went to CWS. Wow, Rangers. 
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Nov 8, 2014 07:26
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Craptacular! posted:What happened to the dude who made that incredibly crazy play running scoop play? Not even Leury Garcia's crazy defense can make up for his total lack of stick. bawfuls posted:Holy poo poo there's 8 more years on that contract and his career OPS+ is 84 For what it's worth the years don't bother me so much since he's still only 26 this year. It's more that if he gets his poo poo back on track he'll be opting out in 2018, and if he doesn't, well... guess we'll see. I heard some poo poo bandied about this morning about an Elvis-Crawford trade but that seems like a horrible idea for the Rangers.
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Nov 8, 2014 07:49
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Not even Leury Garcia's crazy defense can make up for his total lack of stick. lol elvis is never going to opt out. hes getting tulo money while hitting like nick punto with declining defense and baserunning
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Nov 8, 2014 18:16
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Andrus's extension was really bad because they had Jurickson Profar in the minors ready to take over. I don't know how they got talked into making that deal considering the leverage they had.
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Nov 8, 2014 21:05
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Re-signing Andrus isn't necessarily bad, just not at that rate and that many years. Christ.
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Nov 8, 2014 21:13
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Profar wasn't ready to go and given how things have turned out for him so far (he recently had PRP on his throwing shoulder) I actually think that shows how making plans for guys who haven't made it yet is not the way to go. The Andrus deal was bad from the start regardless because it paid him a market rate that was complete speculation, and if he for some reason wound up turning the corner offensively he was going to opt out. The deal isn't backloaded so there's no well he opts out before he gets paid option. Essentially, to get a Boras client to agree to an extension before they hit free agency this is the kind of deal you wind up giving out. Not a lot of value for the team in any scenario.
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Nov 8, 2014 22:44
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