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Beamed posted:It's always surreal to see someone try to post something definitive when it is definitively wrong. Hilariously, I always interpreted "natural born" to mean born here or a US military base abroad.  Pretty sure Canada isn't a military base. But good to know. Seeing the dems doing a birther argument right back at the republicans would be pretty hilarious.
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Nov 12, 2014 00:38
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Nereid posted:Hilariously, I always interpreted "natural born" to mean born here or a US military base abroad. There is no clear definition of it (which is part of the problem), but it's generally interpreted to mean someone who is a citizen from birth, not naturalized. The Founders were rather paranoid of European nobility trying to take over their new government.
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Nov 12, 2014 00:41
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Chamale posted:There's no doubt that perception is huge. No one talked about Romney's age (65) and it was the main thing on everyone's minds with McCain (72). McCain looked very old because of his cautious movements and slow speech, which were partly from age and partly from being tortured in Vietnam. Romney and Hillary both look and act more youthful than they are. Of course, if Romney runs for president again, it's unlikely that anyone will criticize his age, and pointing that out will give Hillary an easy defense since she's seven months younger than Mitt. Get ready to discover just how much scorn the nation can pour out on a middle aged woman for the crime of not being dead.
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Nov 12, 2014 00:42
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CubsWoo posted:Again, look at 2014. The right wing wanted Broun or Handel in GA, McDaniel in MS, Wolf in KS, Brannon in NC, Bevin in KY, Carr in TN. They all lost to safer incumbents/establishment moderate Republicans. Even close race losers like Scott Brown and Gillespie were more moderate than the bigger losers in 2010/2012. If you're looking at that trend and thinking the GOP is going to go more right wing in 2016 I'm not sure what else could convince you. Huckabee and Cruz may run but I think the frontrunners have the discipline not to follow them into untenable positions that would jeopardize the general. The right wing is far, far further to the right than it was when I was growing up (i.e., the Reagan era) and has been getting more right. The people that get elected might not always be as far right as the crazy right wants but that still sums up the right's strategy. Nothing is ever to the right enough. If a middle-right person gets elected then we aren't pushing hard enough.
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Nov 12, 2014 00:51
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SedanChair posted:Get ready to discover just how much scorn the nation can pour out on a middle aged woman for the crime of not being dead. Unless you mean she's from Middle Earth, which is possible.
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Nov 12, 2014 00:53
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ReindeerF posted:Dude, man or woman, she'll be a hair under 70 when the time comes. That ain't middle aged until Ray Kurzweil starts dancing the singularity shuffle. I mean they'll beat her up for being too old and mentally ill and all that, no doubt, and she'll get more guff than, say Biden, who is even older, but let's not pretend she's middle-aged. She's a senior, no doubt, but she doesn't look or sound old like McCain. I don't think it'll be successful at all for the Republicans to say a 69-year-old woman is too old to run the country while praising Reagan and commanding a huge majority of the senior citizen vote.
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Nov 12, 2014 01:10
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ReindeerF posted:Dude, man or woman, she'll be a hair under 70 when the time comes. That ain't middle aged until Ray Kurzweil starts dancing the singularity shuffle. I mean they'll beat her up for being too old and mentally ill and all that, no doubt, and she'll get more guff than, say Biden, who is even older, but let's not pretend she's middle-aged. 60 is the new 80, or 40 or something.
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Nov 12, 2014 01:29
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Let's be clear, the debate was the term "middle-aged." I won't be dragged off into some other debate. 70 is not middle-aged even in loving old people Japan, heh. She's is a senior citizen, period. I have no problem with that, I think we should elect older people because they know a shitload more than younger people, so that's no strike against her in my book, but let's not remotely try to pretend Saint Reagan was a Spring Chicken or that Hillary is Middle-Aged. It doesn't matter how she looks, age is age, you don't get to treat it like it's part of a huge box of crayolas and go, "Well it's kind of orange."
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Nov 12, 2014 03:26
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ReindeerF posted:Let's be clear, the debate was the term "middle-aged." I won't be dragged off into some other debate. 70 is not middle-aged even in loving old people Japan, heh. She's is a senior citizen, period. I have no problem with that, I think we should elect older people because they know a shitload more than younger people, so that's no strike against her in my book, but let's not remotely try to pretend Saint Reagan was a Spring Chicken or that Hillary is Middle-Aged. It doesn't matter how she looks, age is age, you don't get to treat it like it's part of a huge box of crayolas and go, "Well it's kind of orange." I didn't know Obama posted on these forums!
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Nov 12, 2014 03:27
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We labeled some folks.
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Nov 12, 2014 03:31
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ReindeerF posted:Let's be clear, the debate was the term "middle-aged." I won't be dragged off into some other debate. 70 is not middle-aged even in loving old people Japan, heh. She's is a senior citizen, period. I have no problem with that, I think we should elect older people because they know a shitload more than younger people, so that's no strike against her in my book, but let's not remotely try to pretend Saint Reagan was a Spring Chicken or that Hillary is Middle-Aged. It doesn't matter how she looks, age is age, you don't get to treat it like it's part of a huge box of crayolas and go, "Well it's kind of orange." I was trying to be polite, lay an egg about it
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Nov 12, 2014 03:41
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Badger of Basra posted:I didn't know Obama posted on these forums! Good night, God bless you, and God bless the United States of America
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Nov 12, 2014 03:44
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ReindeerF posted:I think we should elect older people because they know a shitload more than younger people, Or they pretend to and use their age as an excuse not to change their minds.
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Nov 12, 2014 03:49
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AYC posted:Or they pretend to and use their age as an excuse not to change their minds. You'll understand when you're older.
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Nov 12, 2014 03:54
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Nereid posted:Hilariously, I always interpreted "natural born" to mean born here or a US military base abroad. Wouldn't MItt Romney technically have been our first Hispanic president if he had won?
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Nov 12, 2014 04:20
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I don't think age will be an issue unless the Republican is one of the many options that are 15+ years younger than her. Optics are a part of the campaign and when put into side by side situations (debates, etc) the contrast could be stark just like it was seeing Obama and McCain side by side. I put together a list of the R candidates listed on Sabato's Crystal Ball and their age on Election Day 2016: Clinton: 69 Rubio: 43 Cruz: 45 Jindal: 45 Ryan: 46 Walker: 49 Paul: 53 Christie: 54 Pence: 57 Santorum: 58 Portman: 60 Huckabee: 61 Bush: 63 Kasich: 64 Carson: 65 Perry: 66 Romney: 69 It won't matter much/at all if the R candidate is in their 60s, but at Christie and younger the difference will be big. Since Truman the Democrat has been older than the Republican only three times and never by more than two years. You already have Walker saying that Hillary has an "Old, tired... approach to government" in Fox News interviews and the younger the R candidate is the more that line of attack will be put in play. And it isn't like the age factor is out of play - nearly a third of voters were concerned about McCain's age and its effect on his possible Presidential responsibilities, and her husband's team used age as an attack against Dole in 1996. CubsWoo fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 04:25
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Santorum just feels like he should be a lot older than that.
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Nov 12, 2014 04:28
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Huckabee's 61 and he regained a shitload of weight after bariatric surgery. Dead Man Walking (watch him live to be 100)
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Nov 12, 2014 04:31
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CubsWoo posted:I don't think age will be an issue unless the Republican is one of the many options that are 15+ years younger than her. Optics are a part of the campaign and when put into side by side situations (debates, etc) the contrast could be stark just like it was seeing Obama and McCain side by side. Yeah, optics is important. Which is why its pretty good Hilary doesn't look 69, she looks like this.  She's still blonde, for fucks sake. Yeah, its dyed, obviously - she's dyed her hair since she got into politics, naturally she's a brunette, but my point is, she doesn't look 69, to the point where someone above mistakenly called her middle aged. McCain looked like he could come shuffling out of the crypt, rattling chains, to warn passerbys that they would be next. Hilary looks like most businesswomen I've worked for. So the optics don't play out the way you think they would.
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Nov 12, 2014 05:02
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Fulchrum posted:Yeah, optics is important. Which is why its pretty good Hilary doesn't look 69, she looks like this. That's a picture from 2009 at age 61. I would hope she didn't look 69 back then! Here's how she looked stumping for Landrieu:  A more recent glamour shot from one of the super PACs supporting her (taken either 2012 or 2013, I don't have an exact date):  And a completely unfair 'old and tired' shot:  Going from the 2009 picture to the best composed 2014 shot there's already a clear change. Now add two more years. Hell, since you mention McCain, look at his 2000 primary pictures and how he changed in eight years. From aging but spry military veteran to death warmed over.
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Nov 12, 2014 05:21
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The GOP would have to be careful how they play the "too old" card against Clinton. They rely on older voters who wouldn't like to hear that a 70 year old shouldn't be trusted.
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Nov 12, 2014 05:22
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I always forget Santorum was a real Senator. He feels like he should be one of those guys who try to parlay a televangelist career or a successful dental practice into a presidential run. Fulchrum posted:Yeah, optics is important. Which is why its pretty good Hilary doesn't look 69, she looks like this. I saw Hillary in person a couple of weeks ago. She looked fine and vigorous. Better than many people in their mid-50s. Most of the GoP's younger guys do not have a good shot at the nomination, besides maybe Walker. The most prominent of their middle-aged guys (Christie) is fat and ugly. Pence could maybe be a problem, given that he looks like somebody you'd cast to play the President in a Lifetime drama. Regardless, I don't think age will be as big an issue for Hillary as it was for McCain. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 05:26
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PupsOfWar posted:There's no way it will be as big an issue as it was with McCain. I think news anchor standards will probably be at play. Old man reporters are "rugged," old woman reporters are "oh wow why are you forcing me to look at you? Just hide from my vision already, crone."
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Nov 12, 2014 05:31
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CubsWoo posted:That's a picture from 2009 at age 61. I would hope she didn't look 69 back then! Here's how she looked stumping for Landrieu: She doesn't look any worse than Angela Merkel, FWIW.
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Nov 12, 2014 05:45
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SedanChair posted:I think news anchor standards will probably be at play. Old man reporters are "rugged," old woman reporters are "oh wow why are you forcing me to look at you? Just hide from my vision already, crone." Sure, but it is mostly men that have this reaction, and the Democrats were already going to be counting on another overwhelming gender gap. If conservative media fixates on the old idea that men will only vote for women they want to sleep with and start pounding the "wow she Putting one of their own wimmen on the ticket might free them up a bit in this regard (provided said woman is not as terrible as Palin), but I can't think of many viable options there besides Martinez. Anyway, there's a reason people take notice when a woman as youthful-looking and hot as, say, Gillibrand is elected to a senior political office, which is that it is far from being the rule. Being unattractive (or having aged out of being attractive, like Hillary) does not cripple a woman's electoral prospects unless she is counting on winning the male vote for some reason. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 05:47
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Out of curiosity, does anyone know how Thatcher dealt with that issue? She was 54 when she became PM and 65 at the end of her tenure at 10 Downing, so younger than we're talking about, but it was the 1980s so standards might have been different.
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Nov 12, 2014 05:56
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deoju posted:The GOP would have to be careful how they play the "too old" card against Clinton. They rely on older voters who wouldn't like to hear that a 70 year old shouldn't be trusted. Its been said before in this thread that older voters may be familiar with the negative affects of aging. Also, when it comes to the older GOP voting base I'm sure the "too old" card will work well. They will see their choice topically as between an enfeebled old crone "has-been" and a mature Republican man's man who gets stuff done no matter what his age is. Its the swing voters that this image stuff will be important.
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Nov 12, 2014 05:59
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is joe actually gonna go for it?
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Nov 12, 2014 06:10
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yeah I'm seeing there being a large contingent of shitheads who see Hilary as a dried up old *gendered insult here* meanwhile an even older male Republican reflects experience and etc. Still though saying that they'd still find a reason to hate her if she was 35 so I'm not sure what that's worth.
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Nov 12, 2014 06:14
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Chantilly Say posted:Out of curiosity, does anyone know how Thatcher dealt with that issue? She was 54 when she became PM and 65 at the end of her tenure at 10 Downing, so younger than we're talking about, but it was the 1980s so standards might have been different. I would think (though as an american I may be talking out my rear end) that the nature of the parliamentary system makes it less of an issue for somebody like Thatcher or Merkel, in general. Presidential races are a whole different level of pomp, visibility and mano-a-mano-ness compared to parliamentary general elections and coalition-building. StabbinHobo posted:is joe actually gonna go for it? Joe has gotta know he can't win. There hasn't been much positive national buzz about him since he ate Paul Ryan, and he keeps having those "gaffes" where he tells the truth about stuff we're supposed to be ignoring. That said, it might be nice if Joe mounts a primary campaign and stays on the scene long enough to play attack-dog, allowing Hillary to play the even keel. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 06:24
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I don't see any reason why Joe doesn't run. He clearly loves campaigning and mingling in diners and other primary state-appropriate public venues, he doesn't really have much else to do the next two years and should something happen health-wise with Hillary where she can't run/chooses not to, he's almost by default the frontrunner. The best chance Joe has of being President is if Obama decides to resign a day before his term is up for funsies so Joe can have President etched on his memorial Acela car. CubsWoo fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 06:27
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crowoutofcontext posted:Its been said before in this thread that older voters may be familiar with the negative affects of aging. And more to the point they will be able to evaluate more accurately just how a candidate's age is affecting them. Hillary is in darn good shape for her age, and may get a lot of "you go, girl" support. McCain had significant problems that way, as he looked like death warmed over and did not look like a guy who could handle the job. There's no hard and fast rule on this. Every candidate will be evaluated differently.
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Nov 12, 2014 06:28
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I demand the Joe Biden becomes the first three-term Vice President, and god willing a fourth term.
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Nov 12, 2014 06:29
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Nintendo Kid posted:I demand the Joe Biden becomes the first three-term Vice President, and god willing a fourth term. I agree, the man is just perfect for the vice-presidential role. Both as a statesman and as an assassination shield, since even a crazed gunman wouldn't want President Joe.
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Nov 12, 2014 06:32
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deoju posted:The GOP would have to be careful how they play the "too old" card against Clinton. They rely on older voters who wouldn't like to hear that a 70 year old shouldn't be trusted. Actually, they tried that with McCain and it was a total flop. It turns out that old folks, more than anyone else, know exactly what being old does to you and how it could effect a presidency. PupsOfWar posted:Joe has gotta know he can't win. Cliff Racer fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 07:17
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I noticed Julian Castro mentioned a few pages ago and it was intoned he dare not challenge Hilary Clinton at this point in his career, but what really was to say that the upstart Barack Obama wouldn't have dared the same? It may be a novice prediction but what else precludes his candidacy and nomination considering his political trajectory and visibility are somewhat comparable to Obama's?
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Nov 12, 2014 08:11
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InvincibleMadHouse posted:I noticed Julian Castro mentioned a few pages ago and it was intoned he dare not challenge Hilary Clinton at this point in his career, but what really was to say that the upstart Barack Obama wouldn't have dared the same? It may be a novice prediction but what else precludes his candidacy and nomination considering his political trajectory and visibility are somewhat comparable to Obama's? Not comparable at all. Castro went from big city mayor (a position no one outside of your city hears of unless the city in question is NYC or to a lesser extent Washington or Chicago) to Secretary for the most obscure Cabinet department this side of Commerce, HUD. He is in the Obama Cabinet at a time when that's political poison (Clinton ditched at the end of the first term), he's still something of a nobody, and he's not going to resign from the Cabinet to run for President on a hopeless bid. And, yes, you would probably have to resign from a Cabinet position to run for President, it's not like being a Senator where you can just take a month off of work to go campaigning. EDIT: Also, Barack Obama was elected President at 47. Julian Castro is literally 40 and will be 42 in 2016. That's incredibly young to make a Presidential bid. Patter Song fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 09:41
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Zwabu posted:Why is Romney's effort to "remain relevant" so mysterious to anyone? It seems obvious enough that he's doing things that leave the door open to run again. He may or may not decide to do so (or he may have already decided he IS going to run), but all his actions make sense in that context. Not necessarily. Could be Romney a) likes being an insider after the "anyone but Romney" vibes of 2012 from GOP establishment and watching his former opponents eating humble pie and paying court and/or b) setting up one of his sons to run. Which was just what HIS father did for him. Edit: I mean for one his sons to run in a future election, not this one. Josef K. Sourdust fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 12:32
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StabbinHobo posted:is joe actually gonna go for it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YjfGex5JHY
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Nov 12, 2014 13:17
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It's Diamond Joe against GOP the enemy, fighting to save the day.
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Nov 12, 2014 13:26
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