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Puntification
Nov 4, 2009

Black Orthodontromancy
The most British Magic



Fun Shoe

Ixtlilton posted:

Also Meinberg's latest post reads like my writing in highschool: way too many commas.

What are you trying to say here?

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EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Roommate Update:

The guy apparently committed himself to a psychiatric facility? So with him gone the third roommate spent all day cleaning the place. She did a good job, it's actually really nice; it hasn't been this clean since we moved in. It also makes me wish it had just been me and her this whole time, we'd probably still be friends.


I really think we should vote Ernie.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

Meinberg posted:

A Sunday deadline? Why I never!

Technically its a Monday deadline.

Puntification
Nov 4, 2009

Black Orthodontromancy
The most British Magic



Fun Shoe

Asiina posted:

Deadline is today so we should probably start talking.

bowmore
Oct 6, 2008





Lipstick Apathy

Asiina posted:

Deadline is today so we should probably start talking.
and then proceeds to say nothing

Dugong
Mar 18, 2013

I don't know what to do,
I'm going to lose my mind



HiipFire posted:

I haven't read through all the posts yet so I'm not comfortable posting any cases/hunches.

OK. Hiip is really standoffish and dismissive and then ends on this. Initial interest was really high but weekend stuff I guess :shrug: I would like to hear from Motley.

Ernie's argument earlier was really lovely but I think a mafia player would back down after the initial slamming of the idea.

##vote HiipFire

bowmore
Oct 6, 2008





Lipstick Apathy

fiery_valkyrie posted:

I don't think Ernie's mindset is a town mindset. I completely don't agree with his argument that town should try to look a little scummy. I think he is approaching the game from a mindset of how, as scum, does he identify his buddies.

##vote Ernie
I agree with this

##vote Ernie

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012



i was about to put effort into the game

but then i read bowmore's post history and laughed to myself and thought 'hahaha who cares'

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012



that said, i liked the part where people thought to themselves 'ernie is trying to find his scumbuddies by making everyone act scummy'

it makes 0 sense but it is an actual case presented with actual supporters on a forum game designed to incorporate logic and critical thinking

Puntification
Nov 4, 2009

Black Orthodontromancy
The most British Magic



Fun Shoe

bowmore posted:

and then proceeds to say nothing

I was waiting to see if anyone was about.

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012



the case i had on ecco was that ecco was going through the motions of pretending to be town but in reality all his actions are self-serving including:

1. HEY GUYS IM GENERATING CONTENT LOOK AT ME IM FAKING HAVING A VIG
complete with no follow-up analysis on anything that his 'gambit' produced
like seriously, why do it at all if he won't analyze people who 'fell' for it? it's a move 100% motivated by his own appearance

2. GEE WE SHOULD ALL BE TOWNIE, EH GUYS, RIGHT GUYS? TOWNIE CUS WE ARE TOWN AND STUFF
complete with jumping at the first opportunity to look like he has a read (me) and not letting go of it, in utter satisfaction that he doesn't have to expend any effort into the game

##vote ecco

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012



up next: merk, he's playing at a safe distance. one page before my theory of everything this game should be, merk himself agreed that everyone needs to act a little scummy

but then when I made a post declaring it he stays back and goes 'let's discuss whether ernie is scummy'. eventually noticing that when there's a little momentum on me, he doesn't actually need to push it, which is why his most recent post is 'what do we think of ixt' not 'i think ixt is a better target than ernie because i agree with ernie'

and ecco ties in here, too:

ecco's read every post in this thread, but he felt like i'm an easier target to build momentum on than merk. that's why when both merk and i said the same thing, he chose to call me scummy for it instead of merk

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

It's a game where scum try to make town act against their own best interests. I think that was what you were promoting.

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012



in conclusion: who puts a deadline on a sunday night and also i am off to work

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012



fiery_valkyrie posted:

It's a game where scum try to make town act against their own best interests. I think that was what you were promoting.

that would be true would it not be for the fact that you are literally insane for not understanding the setup. what the setup basically is: every scum gets a double-vote. every town gets a single-vote.

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012



we are as much scum as we are town in this game considering we also have to lead the scum astray, and the more difficult it is for scum to figure what to do with the fact that they have to vote twice in a day, the more likely we are to win

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

I still agree with Ernie's logic, although I'm not sure how all that meant "therefore we should fullclaim" in an earlier post.

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012



Asiina posted:

I still agree with Ernie's logic, although I'm not sure how all that meant "therefore we should fullclaim" in an earlier post.

oh i wanted to mention that that was the part that i was joking about, just to piss ecco off

it worked :D

Dr. Hurt
Oct 23, 2010



Asiina posted:

I still agree with Ernie's logic, although I'm not sure how all that meant "therefore we should fullclaim" in an earlier post.

Yeah that was mainly the part that I didn't get. Although now Ernie's cleared it away as just a joke, I still don't like it.

Puntification
Nov 4, 2009

Black Orthodontromancy
The most British Magic



Fun Shoe

The problem I have with ernie's logic, ignoring the fullclaim thing/joke, is that even if perhaps it would maximise our chances as town to confuse scum and hope this leads them to make mistakes with the NK it'd make the game a war of attrition that could become a blind crapshoot as far as scumhunting goes and possibly really drawn out and boring.

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012



Puntification posted:

The problem I have with ernie's logic, ignoring the fullclaim thing/joke, is that even if perhaps it would maximise our chances as town to confuse scum and hope this leads them to make mistakes with the NK it'd make the game a war of attrition that could become a blind crapshoot as far as scumhunting goes and possibly really drawn out and boring.

how else is a game where the scum don't know each other going to play out???

we'll just divine the identity of the scums one after the other flawlessly?

also confused scum are going to make mistakes during the night-time and during the day time. they vote twice!!!

bowmore
Oct 6, 2008





Lipstick Apathy

how does the voting twice thing work?

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012



CapitalistPig posted:

The scum kill will consist of all members of the scumteam pming me a kill choice each night, the majority will win, in the event of no majority I will rng the kill from the choices presented.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

Ernie. posted:

up next: merk, he's playing at a safe distance. one page before my theory of everything this game should be, merk himself agreed that everyone needs to act a little scummy

but then when I made a post declaring it he stays back and goes 'let's discuss whether ernie is scummy'. eventually noticing that when there's a little momentum on me, he doesn't actually need to push it, which is why his most recent post is 'what do we think of ixt' not 'i think ixt is a better target than ernie because i agree with ernie'

and ecco ties in here, too:

ecco's read every post in this thread, but he felt like i'm an easier target to build momentum on than merk. that's why when both merk and i said the same thing, he chose to call me scummy for it instead of merk

I don't think you're scummy for advancing the game theory. The only post I found that is semi persuasive for why you might be scum is this post:

EccoRaven posted:

"I just want us to remember that there probably aren't watchers or trackers!"

- doesn't help us find scum.

"Cops are probably more likely scum than town!"

- doesn't help us find scum.

"I am a dumb butt whose face is a butt and my words are farts and also I have a butt on my butt"

- doesn't help us find scum.


All it does is risk a townie saying "actually, I'm a tracker," or "I'm a cop and town," even if obliquely. It just plain isn't helpful.

So everyone stop, and also consider voting Ernie because wow.

bowmore
Oct 6, 2008





Lipstick Apathy

oh ok

still I don't think it really matters if they make mistakes at night because someone will die anyway

Puntification
Nov 4, 2009

Black Orthodontromancy
The most British Magic



Fun Shoe

Ernie. posted:

how else is a game where the scum don't know each other going to play out???

we'll just divine the identity of the scums one after the other flawlessly?

also confused scum are going to make mistakes during the night-time and during the day time. they vote twice!!!

Well catching them all d1 would be ideal obviously. But seriously, your criticism applies to your own scheme we're also confused and we're intentionally complicating our lynches, so yes they vote twice but will still presumably be the minority so we can't assume confusing them will result in successful lynches and mistargeted NKs anymore than us divining scum identities through magic is a thing that works. I think your idea is a delaying tactic more than a recipe for success.

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012



merk posted:

I don't think you're scummy for advancing the game theory. The only post I found that is semi persuasive for why you might be scum is this post:

just because ecco appended 'doesn't help us find scum' to a bunch of my words

a) doesn't make it true
b) and even if it were true doesn't make me scummy

if the logic is that things that don't progress The General State of Scumhunting are inherently scummy, then everyone who hasn't posted is scummy

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

merk posted:

I generally disfavor arguments that are based on disagreements over general mafia theory. I also disagree with Ernie, but I don't think he's scum for trying to advance that strategy. A better argument for Ernie being scum would be what Ecco said on the last page. What do you think about that argument?

I even mention what I said in my last post here.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

Ernie. posted:

just because ecco appended 'doesn't help us find scum' to a bunch of my words

a) doesn't make it true
b) and even if it were true doesn't make me scummy

if the logic is that things that don't progress The General State of Scumhunting are inherently scummy, then everyone who hasn't posted is scummy

This is a ridiculous post, friend.

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012



merk posted:

This is a ridiculous post, friend.

it is

but only because i don't for a minute doubt that Sincere Merk would agree that eliminating the possibility of fake-claims is worthless

bowmore
Oct 6, 2008





Lipstick Apathy

I like fake claims, it makes it easier to tell if someone is lying

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012



Ernie. posted:

ecco's read every post in this thread, but he felt like i'm an easier target to build momentum on than merk. that's why when both merk and i said the same thing, he chose to call me scummy for it instead of merk

more to the point

merk you yourself have scumhunted before by seeing what people are willing to do/not do around/about you

what do you think of this?

ignore the difference between my and your case and the way i went about mine. ecco absolutely ignored that you yourself advocated people act a little scummy/didn't confront you with it

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Hey Ernie

This post:

merk posted:

I kind of want to act scummy so the scum team thinks I'm scum and avoids nightkilling me.

is next to nothing. It's the same idea, but the difference is you were the one doubling down on it - merk said "eh nevermind" and moved on.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

Ernie. posted:

in conclusion: who puts a deadline on a sunday night and also i am off to work

Monday morning.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Ernie. posted:

1. HEY GUYS IM GENERATING CONTENT LOOK AT ME IM FAKING HAVING A VIG

I've literally never said this.

Ernie. posted:

2. GEE WE SHOULD ALL BE TOWNIE, EH GUYS, RIGHT GUYS? TOWNIE CUS WE ARE TOWN AND STUFF

This is self-evident.

You're a butt imo.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


I think Ernie wants us to deliberately play sub-optimally ("scummy") because he's genuinely afraid he won't be able to post townie this game, so if he gets even a few townies to follow him he'll get to hide better.

I mean think about it, if the scum never know the others' identities, then us playing like scum makes the game a crapshoot

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012



EccoRaven posted:

I've literally never said this.

Dear Ecco, Master Strategist sent to us by God Himself,

Since you know what is best for everyone in the game and why some strategies are flawed, I want you to right here right now tell me some conclusions you've drawn based on your very elaborate vig claim.

What net positive did it give the game?

Thanks,
Your Most Humble Opponent,
Ernie

bowmore
Oct 6, 2008





Lipstick Apathy

happy to lynch ern

Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012



EccoRaven posted:

I think Ernie wants us to deliberately play sub-optimally ("scummy") because he's genuinely afraid he won't be able to post townie this game, so if he gets even a few townies to follow him he'll get to hide better.

I mean think about it, if the scum never know the others' identities, then us playing like scum makes the game a crapshoot

yes, the game is not already a 'crapshoot'

it can only 'become' one

yes, this is a thing that anyone who has played mafia for more than a day agree on

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Ernie.
Aug 31, 2012



if i were scum i would be revelling in my complete and utter safety

my win ratio as a 3p is like 85% (thanks, mills)

and in this game, the scum are pretty much 4-5 independent 3ps

if you're disagreeing with the fact that the game is a crapshoot when we are unable to draw connections between scum players, then you're disagreeing with yourself considering your meta is 'flipless games are poo poo'

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