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Kangra
May 7, 2012

SuperiorColliculus posted:


Makes at least as much sense as Adnan deciding months later that he's jealous and murderous.

As for track practice, several of Jay's stories have them dropping Adnan off at track just before it ends. If your motive is to be seen at track, this is sure to blow that alibi out of the water.

Months? They broke up first in November, when Adnan clearly wasn't taking it well, and were sort of back together by December, which is about when she started dating Don. So only a month or so.

I don't get the part about the track alibi. If it comes down to missing a lot of it, then at least you'd want to show up at the end, when people are heading back to the locker room. You can probably find someone who recalls seeing you or talking to you at that point, and can get around the fact that they don't quite remember actually seeing you on the field. Still a risk, but it's going to be a much better alibi than not being there at all.

vvvvvvvvv
In truth, it is more likely that it wasn't a pre-planned alibi. It seems possible that [if Adnan did the crime and suggested it], he might have said it afterward as something he should do, but it would have been in an agitated post-murder state.
One of the reasons I favor Adnan as a suspect is that it has less of a planning requirement, whereas Jay as murderer requires a fair amount of luck and/or premeditation to work.

Kangra fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Dec 1, 2014

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cbirdsong
Sep 8, 2004

Commodore of the Apocalypso
Lipstick Apathy
The idea that Adnan was trying to get back to track practice to be seen for an alibi strikes me as a little too criminal mastermind-y for what was probably a crime of passion perpetrated by a dumb teen, if Adnan is guilty.

Where did the idea that he planned to acquire an alibi come from? Jay's police interview?

PaganGoatPants
Jan 18, 2012

TODAY WAS THE SPECIAL SALE DAY!
Grimey Drawer

cbirdsong posted:

Where did the idea that he planned to acquire an alibi come from? Jay's police interview?

Yeah, that's what Jay said. But Jay again changed his story from it being not planned to Adnan planning it for weeks.

bedpan
Apr 23, 2008

PaganGoatPants posted:

Yeah, that's what Jay said. But Jay again changed his story from it being not planned to Adnan planning it for weeks.

Jay also claimed to have made a call from a phone box that probably never existed. It also took Jay four attempts, with two investigators helping and the call log laid out on the table, to get his story right.

There are other inconsistencies, like the visit to the cliffs and the various locations where Jay claimed to have seen Hae's body. Adnan gets flak for not being able to give a minute-by-minute account of his movements but Jay gets a pass. I don't know how anyone can look at Jay and call him anything approaching a credible witness. Not only is the man unreliable, but he is an interested party too.

Edit: To be clear, I agree with you, and Jay saying something happened is no evidence that it happened.

bedpan fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Dec 1, 2014

bowser
Apr 7, 2007

There's only one possibility that makes sense to me with all the info we have. Adnan asked Jay to accompany him in confronting Hae, things escalated and Adnan ends up strangling her and Jay doesn't or isn't able to stop him.

After helping bury the body, Jay realizes he's in way above his head and confesses to the cops while minimizing his involvement as much as possible.

Adnan can't really pin it on Jay without implicating himself so he just plays the confused kid who has no clue why Jay is blaming him.

Bulkiest Toaster
Jan 22, 2013

by R. Guyovich
If season 2 doesn't stick with the true crime subject matter then I at least hope that it sticks with a topic or subject matter that includes some sort of mystery element. Maybe UFOs?

Josh Lyman
May 24, 2009


Bulkiest Toaster posted:

If season 2 doesn't stick with the true crime subject matter then I at least hope that it sticks with a topic or subject matter that includes some sort of mystery element. Maybe UFOs?
Please god no. UFOs and alien theorists are the worst kind of crackpots.

Bulkiest Toaster
Jan 22, 2013

by R. Guyovich

Josh Lyman posted:

Please god no. UFOs and alien theorists are the worst kind of crackpots.

...and its NPR. They are the sort of high falooting journalists who wouldn't be caught dead talking about UFOs. Of course the story wouldn't necessarily have to focus on the reality of the phenomenon per say. They could find an interesting case and see how it effected the people who experienced. Or take a look at the divide between skeptics and believers and why each side believes what they believe. Much like season 1 is an exploration of how people break down into the Adnand did or adnand didn't do it depending on how they look at the facts.

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008



UFOs would be one five minute episode long, with someone just saying "It's military aircraft, people are wrong about what they're seeing, or people are making poo poo up. Thank you, this has been Serial."

superh
Oct 10, 2007

Touching every treasure
A Serial quality and length look at UFOs would be The Best Thing And If You Think Otherwise You Are Wrong

kdrudy
Sep 19, 2009

Then the next season they can do a ghost story too how about, that'd be about on par with a UFO story.

webmeister
Jan 31, 2007

The answer is, mate, because I want to do you slowly. There has to be a bit of sport in this for all of us. In the psychological battle stakes, we are stripped down and ready to go. I want to see those ashen-faced performances; I want more of them. I want to be encouraged. I want to see you squirm.
If Serial is really going in that direction, the season one twist is going to be that Sarah Koenig is actually Hae in disguise.

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008



kdrudy posted:

Then the next season they can do a ghost story too how about, that'd be about on par with a UFO story.

"I'm Sarah Koenig, and this is Serial. This season we're going to look into the story of two teenagers, parked alone on a summer night. On the radio a news story about an escaped convict with a hook for a hand plays, but they ignore it. It would be the last mistake they would ever make."

Danger
Jan 4, 2004

all desire - the thirst for oil, war, religious salvation - needs to be understood according to what he calls 'the demonogrammatical decoding of the Earth's body'
It'd be cool if they did something in the vein of Frederick Kaufman's 'Food Bubble' investigation into Goldman Sachs, but it's NPR so that'll never happen.

Mister Chief
Jun 6, 2011

I have no idea what they should do as I feel like the concept of a second season just feels forced.

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008



It should just become an old time radio Serial, like The Shadow.

nonathlon
Jul 9, 2004
And yet, somehow, now it's my fault ...

kdrudy posted:

Then the next season they can do a ghost story too how about, that'd be about on par with a UFO story.

Didn't Ira Glass say next season was going to be about a haunted house?

I'd love to see another intricate true crime season, but I can understand they don't want to become pigeon-holed in that genre. So they have to do something quite different. Exactly what can yield 12 hours of coverage is another question. Even most controversial crimes have that much material.

Necrothatcher
Mar 26, 2005




I'd really like the next series to be about a suspicious missing person case, if only because the publicity generated might have a hand in solving it.

Something like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Zebb_Quinn

or

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Rebecca_Coriam

CottonWolf
Jul 20, 2012

Good ideas generator

I could take a haunted house or a missing person case. Both of them would be pretty cool, exploring what makes people believe in ghosts vs. something somewhat closer to the aims of the first series, albeit with more of a speculative bent; "What makes a perfectly normal person vanish?".

Actually, the latter would be better. Basically, I'm saying I want a serialised longform version of A Man Vanishes.

CottonWolf fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Dec 1, 2014

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008



I'd get behind a missing persons thing. A haunted house would make me angry I gave them money.

Human
Jun 9, 2004


REAL HUMAN. SAFE TO APPROACH.
I got all caught up on Serial while traveling for Thanksgiving and this is the fix I've been looking for.

While listening, I feel like there are only 4 plausible theories about who the killer is:

1. Adnan did it alone, like the police said: Obviously there are some factual inaccuracies here but it is technically possible. It explains most everything if you're willing to give a lot of wiggle room to Jay and other witnesses. The same wiggle room Adnan's defenders are asking you to give him. I don't personally see a way Adnan is entirely culpable without Jay being more than just an accessory after the fact like he claims, but it is possible.

2. Adnan and Jay did it together: Adnan and Jay are better friends than they say. Adnan gets Jay's help to kill his ex-girlfriend and Jay goes along for whatever reason. Fun? Didn't think it was actually going to happen? Maybe some type of money making scheme that never came to fruition? It explains a lot about the case - Adnan's memory gaps, why Jay has an elaborate story that is false in the details but accurate in a big picture, lots of things. The one thing that really puts me off about it is that Adnan never turns on Jay. Jay is getting a sweetheart deal while claiming he never did anything but move the body after the fact. If Adnan had sold Jay out as a straight-up accomplice, he would have been able to plead down to a lesser charge and Jay's previous agreement wouldn't hold up because it was for a different crime all together. I don't think Adnan would keep it a secret for all these years.

3. Jay killed Hae: Nothing about Jay's story changes if he's the one who killed Hae. The problem is, he has very little motive. There was some talk further back in the thread about Hae knowing he was cheating on his girlfriend, but I have trouble seeing how that would escalate into murder. It explains all of his lies and how he knew where her car was. Was he dealing drugs to Hae? It's never come up and I'm sure someone would have said something about it by now if she had. It doesn't make sense.

4. Jay is covering for a third party by framing Adnan: Part of me prefers this theory but rationally it seems like it is too complicated to work in reality. It would require an actual conspiracy involving Jay and at least one other person (with potential for others) to frame Adnan for a crime he didn't commit. There's no motive because whoever this third person is hasn't been revealed. Another student? One of Jay's drug contacts? There's no chance it was Steph and I don't know who else Jay is willing to lie for like that. It is the most appealing because it means both Adnan and the weirdly likeable Jay are both innocent of murder, but without naming a third party there's no way to really figure out why.

None of it makes sense. There are some other wild theories that come to mind (Adnan and Steph kill Hae, Jay turns on Adnan and Adnan stays silent for her for example) but none of them are anything more than silly. I know I'm not going to get a truly satisfactory answer because this is real life and not detective fiction, but I am dying to know the truth.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

i think serial should take a long look into the ethics of gaming journalism

7 RING SHRIMP
Oct 3, 2012

I want Sarah Koenig to spend her time investigating the validity of the Loch Ness Monster

DapperDraculaDeer
Aug 4, 2007

Shut up, Nick! You're not Twilight.
Ira Glass is clearly an SJW, just look at those glasses. It would be impossible for him to provide an unbiased examination of games journalism.

Tormented
Jan 22, 2004

"And the goat shall bear upon itself all their iniquities unto a solitary place..."

Human posted:

2. Adnan and Jay did it together: Adnan and Jay are better friends than they say. Adnan gets Jay's help to kill his ex-girlfriend and Jay goes along for whatever reason. Fun? Didn't think it was actually going to happen? Maybe some type of money making scheme that never came to fruition? It explains a lot about the case - Adnan's memory gaps, why Jay has an elaborate story that is false in the details but accurate in a big picture, lots of things. The one thing that really puts me off about it is that Adnan never turns on Jay. Jay is getting a sweetheart deal while claiming he never did anything but move the body after the fact. If Adnan had sold Jay out as a straight-up accomplice, he would have been able to plead down to a lesser charge and Jay's previous agreement wouldn't hold up because it was for a different crime all together. I don't think Adnan would keep it a secret for all these years.

Going to have to call out Occam's razor on this one.

Adnan cannot turn on Jay because then it proves he know something about the murder and it would just incriminate himself.

Adnan can't sell out Jay without admitting he had something to do with it and has been lying all this time. Right now, Adnan still has his entire family thinking he didn't do it. If he comes out, he will lose his family (who he has admitted even in jail, is still very close to him) for a chance to gain very little.

Adnan gains nothing from admitting it, if he did do it but if he keeps denying it, he might have a chance someone out there at-least getting him out early on parole.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

CoffeeBooze posted:

Ira Glass is clearly an SJW, just look at those glasses. It would be impossible for him to provide an unbiased examination of games journalism.

do you think hae was killed by feminist gamers? poo poo...

Human
Jun 9, 2004


REAL HUMAN. SAFE TO APPROACH.

Tormented posted:

Going to have to call out Occam's razor on this one.

Adnan cannot turn on Jay because then it proves he know something about the murder and it would just incriminate himself.

Adnan can't sell out Jay without admitting he had something to do with it and has been lying all this time. Right now, Adnan still has his entire family thinking he didn't do it. If he comes out, he will lose his family (who he has admitted even in jail, is still very close to him) for a chance to gain very little.

Adnan gains nothing from admitting it, if he did do it but if he keeps denying it, he might have a chance someone out there at-least getting him out early on parole.

I'm not really in a place to rebut, but I'll just say that I don't think your scenario is an Occam's Razor situation. I will say that it is possible, if not the most likely outcome, that Adnan thought it was better to fight it in court rather than take a deal and implicate his accuser.

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008



Toxxupation posted:

do you think hae was killed by feminist gamers? poo poo...

Zoe Quinn killed Hae.

radlum
May 13, 2013
So...I saw this link on AV Club about Adnan. Does posting real life stuff about the case count as "spoilers"? I won't post it, just avoid The AV Club for today if you think it is spoilery?

Edit: Forgot the spoiler: In January Adnan is getting another day in court, before the Maryland Court Of Special Appeals. Apparently this was requested before the podcast started

radlum fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Dec 2, 2014

Necrothatcher
Mar 26, 2005




Tormented posted:

Adnan gains nothing from admitting it, if he did do it but if he keeps denying it, he might have a chance someone out there at-least getting him out early on parole.

Actually the opposite is true. Maintaining your innocence after conviction really hurts your chances of parole as you can't be said to have shown remorse for your actions.

Tormented
Jan 22, 2004

"And the goat shall bear upon itself all their iniquities unto a solitary place..."

Human posted:

I'm not really in a place to rebut, but I'll just say that I don't think your scenario is an Occam's Razor situation. I will say that it is possible, if not the most likely outcome, that Adnan thought it was better to fight it in court rather than take a deal and implicate his accuser.

As in it takes far more assumptions to assume Jay did it or another third party. Jay would have to have been extremely lucky / mastermind to have planned to set up Adnan.

Kangra
May 7, 2012

There's a lot of mention of Jay's motive or lack thereof, but I think the bigger problem with Jay as the killer is the lack of opportunity. He either has to kill her at a crowded high school that just let out [and move her body without anyone noticing], in the crowded parking lot [and then drive off in her car without anyone noticing the body], or somehow intercept her while she's driving, or at an elementary school [implausible]. Either that, or convince someone he doesn't know all that well to give him a ride somewhere secluded.

Whereas Adnan as the abductor isn't difficult to achieve at all. There's even evidence that he was trying to get in her car. Now, one can come up with a theory whereby Adnan 'abducts' (or leads her away from crowds, to be charitable) but is not the killer. For example: Adnan convinces Hae to have a quickie at Best Buy, calls Jay telling him to pick him up there in about 20 minutes, then when Jay shows up Hae & Jay fight and Jay kills her. But that starts to require a complicated explanation and doesn't square with other facts (if that was the case, why would Adnan be silent on it).

Bonzo
Mar 11, 2004

Just like Mama used to make it!
Did they ever discuss sex in detail? Maybe this was a case of rough sex gone wrong?

ninjahedgehog
Feb 17, 2011

It's time to kick the tires and light the fires, Big Bird.


Bonzo posted:

Did they ever discuss sex in detail? Maybe this was a case of rough sex gone wrong?

There was no evidence of sexual assault, and although I'm not an expert it seems logical that "rough sex gone wrong" would be ruled out with the same stroke.

7 RING SHRIMP
Oct 3, 2012

Bonzo posted:

Did they ever discuss sex in detail? Maybe this was a case of rough sex gone wrong?

Sex between Adnan and Jay, gayly.

Watermelon City
May 10, 2009

TheJoker138 posted:

I'd get behind a missing persons thing. A haunted house would make me angry I gave them money.
For too long nobody has been willing to grant ghosts, poltergeists, and spirits the presumption of innocence.

Mister Chief
Jun 6, 2011

When's the next episode supposed to come out?

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008



Mister Chief posted:

When's the next episode supposed to come out?

Thursday.

Gibfender
Apr 15, 2007

Electricity In Our Homes
New episode has dropped - focusing on Adnan's lawyer

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peter banana
Sep 2, 2008

Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.

Gibfender posted:

New episode has dropped - focusing on Adnan's lawyer

Oh man, the way Koenig said that "he might be a psychopath...right?" at the end makes me think something nuts is coming next week.

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