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AndrewP posted:The idea of Redditors "getting involved" is a serious bummer, though. Considering Reddits past history of involvement in this type of thing, it is only a matter of time before some loon starts calling Hae's family with death threats.
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Nov 18, 2014 21:22
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Hakkesshu posted:That thing basically makes or breaks the whole case, and Adnan's alibi makes no sense to me. He left his car and phone with Jay so Jay could go buy presents and hang out with Jenn or whatever and would then call his own phone from track practice so Jay could come pick him up, right? Keep in mind this is 1999. Cell phones, especially for high school kids were not all that common. I was in high school in '99 and had friends that would do the same thing fairly frequently. What throws me however is how Jay and Adnan's friendship has been described in prior episodes, though. They are described more as passing acquaintances, not close friends. In 1999 a cell phone and a car were both prized possessions for an 18 year old high school student. You wouldn't just loan them to someone you knew in passing.
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Nov 29, 2014 21:41
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Giving someone a ride is a lot different from giving someone the keys to your car and your cell phone to use as they see fit while you aren't around.
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Nov 29, 2014 22:22
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Until all of the episodes have aired it is kind of premature to speculate. With that said, with what has been presented so far it seems like Adnan and Jay were in cahoots. Since Jay was arrested first and while at work he gave up Adnan in an attempt to save himself. Jay's story shifted so much because he was trying to incriminate himself as little as possible, but hadn't had time to rehearse a decent story. I am still really sketchy about motivations though. Things really do not add up. The podcast is so engrossing it is hard not to speculate. How many episodes are there, anyways?
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Nov 29, 2014 23:00
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Ira Glass is clearly an SJW, just look at those glasses. It would be impossible for him to provide an unbiased examination of games journalism.
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Dec 1, 2014 23:17
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zakharov posted:This is a TAL spinoff. You guys should go look at TAL's goals, and what they look at when they request submissions. They tell stories. The goal of Serial and TAL is to tell a story with an arc. That's what they're trying to do. Over the last couple of years TAL has moved more towards doing actual journalism instead of stories about random poo poo like some Jewish kid's experience getting poison ivy at summer camp in upstate New York. Their coverage of the 2008 financial crisis is one prominent example, but they've also done smaller stories that are similar to Serial, like their coverage of that messed up drug court in Tennesse or whatever. That story is almost a prototype of Serial. Their response to the whole Mike Daisy fiasco with Apple also showed that they are actually really interested in journalism, and journalism ethics. I don't think they are simply trying to tell a story with an arc with Serial, or even with a lot of TAL these days. I think they are using what they learned about telling stories with an arc to create a compelling narrative though, and are trying to mix that with actual serious journalism. It was working really well for the first five or so episodes, too.
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Dec 16, 2014 02:11
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I feel bad for Sarah Koenig. She's made it clear from the start that not everything is clear with this case. Despite that there are a lot of people who are going to be disappointed if she doesn't make some kind of pronouncement of guilt in the end,
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Dec 17, 2014 19:02
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I am really curious how those people explain Serial's success then. Aside from some assistance from her producer the whole thing is pretty much Sarah Koenig 100% all the way.
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Dec 18, 2014 03:00
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DrVenkman posted:I don't know how convinced I am that Adnan did it. I think he's lying, but then I think Jay is lying as well. I guess the simplest explanation, if you're trying to make sense of it all is simply: This is what has bothered me throughout the podcast. It just seems like there are one or two facts missing. Nothing adds up. Maybe in a few years Jay will author a book titled "If I Did It" that provides the few missing pieces that wraps everything up nicely with a little bow and all. Until then it is really hard to make any determination on what exactly went down.
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Dec 18, 2014 17:13
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Kelly posted:I feel like Don put together what is the salient point: when he heard about this, he immediately put together a timeline of what he had done all day to satisfy any questions the police might have for him. Don was only 20 or so - not that much older than Adnan so it's not like he had the gift of life experience over Adnan. In terms of life experience the difference between 17 and 20 is pretty huge. A lot happens in those first few years after high school.
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Dec 18, 2014 18:13
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Its certainly possible. It seems like it would take some master criminal levels of planning to do that though.
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Dec 18, 2014 21:14
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axeil posted:I still think Jay did it, but I don't think he planned to pin it on Adnan until he started realizing the situation and that's why his story is so full of holes. But why would Jay do it? I don't think any clear motive has been established for anyone in the case. The closest anyone has come to establishing a motive was the prosecution doing so for Adnan. Even then it just seems flimsy. If it weren't for Jay's knowing where the car was I would be inclined to think that it was some random nut who did it, but based on Jay's knowledge I don't think that is what happened either.
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Dec 18, 2014 22:26
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rear end Catchcum posted:I just think it's hosed up you can go to jail for life because one guy says you did it. It really isn't this simple. Jay's accounts are corroborated by quite a bit of other evidence.
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Dec 19, 2014 00:30
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Homicide is really excellent, although at times it can feel kind of stilted. You can tell it is one of David Simon's first attempts at a long work. It was written about a decade before Hae's murder but I doubt much has changed. The emphasis BPD placed on making a determination who the culprit is, building a case against them, and then passing it off to the DA's office with no further thought given to the possibility of someone else having done it was really troubling. You can see the same thing happening with the treatment of Adnan as compared to Jay.
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Dec 19, 2014 03:52
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Where are you copy/pasting this stuff from? It is loving hilarious. It has got to be Reddit, but where on Reddit?
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Dec 19, 2014 05:08
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Technowrite posted:1. Hae's Family Finally Agrees to Speak: To me, them deciding against talking on the matter is one of the glaring holes in this podcast. We're missing very important insight from them on how they felt about Adnan. They can likely give us another side to his personality and whether or not they believe he had it in him to kill their daughter. I don't think Hae's family would be able to provide much insight into who Adnan is and was. Hae's family was very strict. She kept the fact that she was dating Adnan a secret. I think it is for the best they stayed away from any publicity. I don't think they would be able to contribute any additional facts, and shoving a microphone in their faces seems like it would just further reopen some nasty wounds. As for Jay, I think everyone wants him to speak out. I doubt he will though. There were so many inconsistencies in his testimony, why would he give a journalist an opportunity to rake him over the coals? While he may not be able to be charged with any further crimes it could open him up to civil suit. I have to wonder if he is still in touch with Josh though and had put him up too speaking out. That is rather conspiratorial though.
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Dec 19, 2014 16:14
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JethroMcB posted:In case you were wondering what Hae was like - insofar as her lacrosse career is concerned - Deadspin/Lacrosse Magazine has you covered. That is a really good piece on Hae and anyone who followed Serial should read it.
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Dec 20, 2014 00:20
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Hakkesshu posted:Either way I didn't really enjoy pretty much the whole latter half of the season. I think most people feel the same. The first four or five episodes were really good, but then the whole thing just kind of ran out of steam. The first few episodes felt very focused only for the later episodes to feel rambling and almost incoherent at times. I plan to check out season 2 all the same. Since season 1 was to some extent a big experiment hopefully they learned from it and will improve.
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Dec 20, 2014 05:23
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Fresh Air had an interview with Sarah Koenig that aired recently. I only had a chance to listen to half of it in the car today but it seemed like it provides some additional insight into the show. It is on Fresh Air's site here: http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air if anyone cares.
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Dec 23, 2014 22:00
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Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:Found this on a related link: While that piece makes perfectly good points, I don't see how it is a valid criticism of Serial. Koenig made clear that her goal was to get to the bottom of the story of who killed Hae. The effectiveness, or lack thereof of Baltimore's judicial system isn't really relevant to that.
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Dec 26, 2014 22:23
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While I still don't think the prosecution had a good enough case to convict Adnan, the interview with Jay has changed my opinion to being that Adnan definitely did it. Jay's interview fills in the blanks about what his motivations were and why his story changed so frequently.I wish he had just spoken with Koenig in the first place really. Also, I would bet good money that he is fearing for his life not so much because of people he knew in Baltimore, but because some lunatic on Reddit has been posting his personal information everywhere and sending him death threads.
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Dec 31, 2014 03:04
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Tormented posted:
I think she had a bit of an obligation to do everything in her power to contact Jay and explain the story she was doing, how he was involved in it and to give him an opportunity to tell his side of it. If he wasn't responding to e-mails or phone calls, just going to his home to talk to him makes sense. Jay is a really important part of this story, if Koenig hadn't done everything possible to contact him, even if it was kind of a jerk move, I think she would be remiss. Where she really screwed up though is just showing up at his home unannounced, without even so much as a business card to demonstrate that she is actually a reporter and what she is doing is legit. If some random person showed up on my doorstep claiming to be a reporter and asking questions about my history with no proof of who they are I would tell them to get lost too.
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Jan 1, 2015 02:39
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docbeard posted:And, while, again, I think she probably shouldn't have showed up at his house unannounced, I thought the way she told his story was pretty fair. She certainly didn't accuse him of murder (and people who think that Serial was in any way intended to be Jay Really Did It: The Podcast are lunatics). I actually think her showing up at Jay's house unannounced was ok. She had repeatedly e-mailed and called him at that point but received no response. For me, and I think a lot of other people,. it felt like Jay held the missing pieces of the story. If she didn't do everything in her power to try to get him to talk to her and tell his side of what happened I think she would have been remiss. Now, how she actually handled showing up at his home is a totally different thing. It seems like she totally screwed that up.
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Jan 1, 2015 21:26
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doctorfrog posted:I'm at the point where I think the podcast itself should be subjected to some really strong criticism, and I'm glad that it is. Not because it's bad or wrong, but because it's not the whole story, and in the style of a TAL episode, it's packaged like it is. What parts of the story are we missing? I mean Jay's account of what happened in particular would have been a very important addition to the podcast, but Koenig explained in detail why that wasn't possible. I haven't really followed the meta of Serial, but I keep seeing claims about evidence that Koenig left out, or that the cell phone records were spotty, but no one seems to be willing to elaborate on this stuff. What is the deal?
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Jan 8, 2015 19:11
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doctorfrog posted:There's a pretty good discussion of points of view, information, or possible biases that the podcast had in the last couple pages, if not much further back. Just as you haven't followed the 'meta,' I can't really take the time and spell them all out. Oh, no doubt there has been plenty of discussion about these things, and that is good. But even in the last page of this thread there were posts claiming that Koening intentionally left out very important evidence. Yet, no where am I seeing what this evidence is. What am I missing here?
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Jan 8, 2015 19:37
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Shitshow posted:I didn't say that. What I said was: It was actually this statement I was referring too: Shitshow posted:I agree on the first point but would argue on the second. I think Koenig has left some very important pieces of evidence out of the podcast for the sake of narrative tension, so I'm not sure how great an example it really is for laypeople. Thanks for the bit about the broken windshield wiper controller. That is exactly the type of thing I felt like I am missing when people discuss things left out of the podcast. In a case like this one where the evidence is hardly overwhelming, small bits like that add up. I am not trying to call anyone out or anything like that. I just am not clear on what this other evidence is since there seems to be a whole lot of speculation about the case. Sorting out what is actually factual, and what is a third hand account as told by some weirdo on Reddit who is repeating what his friend's, cousin's favorite baseball player who went to Adnan's schools aid 15 years after the fact can be difficult.
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Jan 8, 2015 20:29
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I read the three articles that were an interview with Jay. Im not following the internet detective stuff very closely but still found that particular interview helpful. The stuff with the prosecutor though, I fail to see how it has any real relevance to Serial. He is saying exactly what you would expect a prosecutor to say, and really Serial wasnt about the trial, but if Adnan actually did it.
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Jan 13, 2015 22:41
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