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Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Actually a pretty cool IK, even if he is MOBY (allegedly)


Pillbug

Jack Gladney posted:

I like to imagine that Dark Matters is a documentary series Walternate hosted after retiring as secretary of defense.

He is still giving lectures in his 90's according to the end of S5...

Which reminds me, I loved how A-side Lincoln Lee seemed like a total wimp and it was a big difference between him and B-side Lincoln. Then, 20 years later, when Olivia crosses over and some observers follow her, he just straight-up wastes the motherfuckers without a moment's doubt. Don't even think he had the special gun or anything.

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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





grilldos posted:

We need to add a line to the OP after "ending on its own terms" that says "which means the ending is one of the most satisfying finishes a science fiction program has ever dished out" to help our friends with the neat stars next to their names.

Did we watch the same ending? It was completely predictable and nothing special at all. It wasn't a bad finale, just not great either.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Actually a pretty cool IK, even if he is MOBY (allegedly)


Pillbug

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

Did we watch the same ending? It was completely predictable and nothing special at all. It wasn't a bad finale, just not great either.

The part where Peter mouths "I love you, dad" to walter while he walks through the portal was pretty intense. Ditto for Walter's "It's a bueatiful name" bit with Astrid.

But really, the fact it didn't run in a circle, poo poo its pants, and try to ruin the rest of the series puts it above X-Files and Battlestar Galactica. And the fact it actually had an ending instead of "Whoops, we got cancelled!" puts it above Alphas and the like. It's not really a high bar to clear, most sci-fi series have awful finales.

E: Also, the part where the Fringe team goes full on terrorist and uses a bunch of old Fringe events as WMD's was pretty nuts. And also the Osmium bullets, since those were cool.

Ugly In The Morning fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Nov 21, 2014

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!


It may have taken the show a while to find its feet but one thing I love about season 1 is that the production values are top-notch; Fox thought they had the next LOST on their hands so they dumped a ton of money in it and even gave it a longer running time with fewer commercial interruptions and it really shows. By the time the final season rolled around they were operating roughly at the same level as a basic cable Canadian sci-fi series, the only show I can think of to have such a dramatic regression in production values is Community.

Also I loved the pilot because of how loving gnarly it was. The opening scene with everybody on the plane turning to goo and falling apart before those few piano chords playing in the background segue in the theme song gave me shivers. The first half of the first season in general seemed to be a lot more gory and extreme and generally going out of its way to show that it wasn't your daddy's X-Files clone, like if Walter needed to scan someone's brain they'd have a scene where they use a power drill to drill electrodes into his skull whereas in season 4 when they reused that plotline they just put a metal cap on their head with some wires coming out.

howe_sam posted:

My only problem with the First People was how offhand the resolution was, kind of like the explanation for the mystery of Sam Weiss.

IIRC correctly the Sam Weiss "mystery" only existed because of a few scattershot blink-and-you'll-miss-it references in the background of, like, two episodes. If you take the show at face value and aren't clinging to fan speculation week after week between episodes it's a non-issue.

Ugly In The Morning posted:

This is pretty much why I'm glad Fringe always had the cancellation worries- X Files was a great show but it got bloated as hell over 9 seasons. Fringe was going to wait until season 3 to reveal the alternate universe until ratings made them move it up. Weaving it in early really helped the show.

The flipside of this is that season 4's direction was entirely from them trying to reboot the show to appeal to new viewers, which not only did nothing to improve the ratings but pissed off the existing viewers because they more or less nullified the entire run of the show up until that point and made the season's story line a muddled mix of re-used plotlines from earlier seasons and an overarching plot that doesn't really go anywhere.

Metal Loaf posted:

I mentioned at the end of the previous thread that I recently finished watching Alias from start to finish, having gone through Fringe last winter. I noticed some parallels, and I wonder if I might have thought differently of Fringe if I'd watched Alias first.

I did the same thing and it made me appreciate Fringe even more, because the goofy sci-fi stuff with Rambaldi was always the most entertaining part of the show.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

Did we watch the same ending? It was completely predictable and nothing special at all. It wasn't a bad finale, just not great either.

Yeah, in theory I liked the idea of a more focused final season with a shorter run but in the end they still spent a lot of time treading water with yet another fetch quest and the writing and budget didn't really do justice to the new setting. As for the actual ending, getting to use weaponized Fringe events was :krad: and ending with a callback to White Tulip was fantastic, and letting Walter redeem himself by mirroring his abduction of Peter with his rescue of Michael was great, but Olivia going Super Saiyan and draining all the power out of an entire so she can slowly crush a guy with a car was laughably bad and re-using that shot of Peter and his daughter as the penultimate scene was super cheesy and way too on-the-nose.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Actually a pretty cool IK, even if he is MOBY (allegedly)


Pillbug

...of SCIENCE! posted:

The flipside of this is that season 4's direction was entirely from them trying to reboot the show to appeal to new viewers, which not only did nothing to improve the ratings but pissed off the existing viewers because they more or less nullified the entire run of the show up until that point and made the season's story line a muddled mix of re-used plotlines from earlier seasons and an overarching plot that doesn't really go anywhere.




I agree with that- it would have been cool for a few episodes, like how you can see how hosed up Walter would be without Peter and the like, but once Peter went from the whole weird-ghost thing to a character again it probably should have reverted. I did like how they did the second porcipine-man episode, though, where Peter had half the mystery solved from the get-go and just needed some reminding of other things. Season 4 is better when you know that eventually the old Olivia and Walter come back, but for a show that's built so heavily on its characters, the reset was a really bad choice. It had some pretty cool episode plots, like the Westfield one, or the Lincoln Lee/Austrid ones, but as a part of a whole it... yeah, definite room for improvement.

Gaunab
Feb 13, 2012
LUFTHANSA YOU FUCKING DICKWEASEL

Fringe is a weird show for me. The first few episodes of the first season weren't too good but once it got it's footing it was really enjoyable. The second season was pretty good and the show felt focused which lasted throughout season 3(although the fake olivia plot was frustrating). Season 4 was the beginning of the end with me since it basically hit the reset button but ended ok and I wasn't really invested in the last season.

I think Fringe benefits from binge watching. I'm pretty sure I would have quit watching if I had to wait for episodes week after week.

thexerox123
Aug 17, 2007



The fact that nearly everyone dislikes season 4 really bugs me for some reason.
Like yeah yeah, they hit the reset button, what a shame. But in my opinion it made for an interesting, unexpected season, and you got to see new facets of character interaction between the leads.
I guess I just really respect the showrunners for trying something interesting, experimental, and unexpected - which is what I watched Fringe for! - and it seems dumb to me that so many people just dismiss it out of hand.

I'd take a show that is willing to completely change their characters' history to explore a fun sci-fi idea over one that is too afraid to try that any day.

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


thexerox123 posted:

The fact that nearly everyone dislikes season 4 really bugs me for some reason.
Like yeah yeah, they hit the reset button, what a shame. But in my opinion it made for an interesting, unexpected season, and you got to see new facets of character interaction between the leads.
I guess I just really respect the showrunners for trying something interesting, experimental, and unexpected - which is what I watched Fringe for! - and it seems dumb to me that so many people just dismiss it out of hand.

I'd take a show that is willing to completely change their characters' history to explore a fun sci-fi idea over one that is too afraid to try that any day.

I really liked it as it made the scene between Walternate and Walter possible. The way Walternate was in season 2 and 3 we never would have gotten that amazing amazing scene.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006



It's worth repeating that they cared enough about their characters to find a way to give them happy endings. The Walternate in season three would never have been able to find peace.

Well, they cared for all their characters other than Sam Weiss.

And Agent Jessup.

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

thexerox123 posted:

The fact that nearly everyone dislikes season 4 really bugs me for some reason.
Like yeah yeah, they hit the reset button, what a shame. But in my opinion it made for an interesting, unexpected season, and you got to see new facets of character interaction between the leads.
I guess I just really respect the showrunners for trying something interesting, experimental, and unexpected - which is what I watched Fringe for! - and it seems dumb to me that so many people just dismiss it out of hand.

I'd take a show that is willing to completely change their characters' history to explore a fun sci-fi idea over one that is too afraid to try that any day.

The thing about shaking your fist at Season 4's resetting of poo poo that I find interesting is that it's a matter of semantics meets personal baggage. When you come down to it, the Prime universe of Season 4 is just another parallel universe. The problem is that the audience is fine with parallel universes only when "home" still exists, and Season 4 took that off the table. It only ended up giving the "home" universe back in the form of memories for a small group of characters.

I understand why that rubs people the wrong way, but one of the messages of Season 4 that's essential to hammer home is the idea of real consequences for actions in a way that truly affects the audience. The show explores consequences-of-actions through Walter with the entire run, but to the viewer it's ultimately inconsequential and a necessary plot-device character flaw that drives Walter's development. Our heroes always mostly fix Walter's latest fuckup-that's-come-back-to-haunt-them by the end of the 42 minutes. Season 4 provides a real consequence that affects the audience's sentiments in a startling and undeniable way that both makes Season 5's setting shift less startling and its redemption story all the more meaningful.


And to be clear, I also was really annoyed with Season 4 during its airing, but once the show wrapped up, I really really appreciated what it accomplished as a whole thematically.

grilldos fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Nov 21, 2014

Aexo
May 16, 2007
Don't ask, I don't know how to pronounce my name either.

thexerox123 posted:

The fact that nearly everyone dislikes season 4 really bugs me for some reason.
Like yeah yeah, they hit the reset button, what a shame. But in my opinion it made for an interesting, unexpected season, and you got to see new facets of character interaction between the leads.
I guess I just really respect the showrunners for trying something interesting, experimental, and unexpected - which is what I watched Fringe for! - and it seems dumb to me that so many people just dismiss it out of hand.

I'd take a show that is willing to completely change their characters' history to explore a fun sci-fi idea over one that is too afraid to try that any day.

I mostly liked season 4. I took the reset as "you know what the characters are capable of, now let's see how they lived without Peter." I just caught up with season 4 on my Fringe binge, so I can't immediately put my finger on what I didn't like about it, but I'm guessing it's the struggle for Peter to return. Definitely Olivia's "I'm willingly letting the me that you and I know go" attitude upon his return. (should I spoiler this crap?)

Is there going to be a coordinated re-watch? Because I'll stop watching and wait for the thread if so.

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


Aexo posted:

Is there going to be a coordinated re-watch? Because I'll stop watching and wait for the thread if so.

Oh dear god this would be a good idea. However, the ones I have done before fell apart. Maybe a week to watch the episode and then discuss instead of watching it all one day.

Hard Clumping
Mar 19, 2008

Y'ALL BREADY
FOR THIS


The week idea is pretty cool; we can go "topic for this week is is S**E**, "[title]"" and we just dissect the gently caress out of that episode and make fun of how wrong the live fan theories were amidst our general discussion. A weekly format would be pretty manageable and I could keep links to posts in the OP.

Who else would be down for this loose casual "watchthrough" thing?

Hard Clumping fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Nov 21, 2014

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Actually a pretty cool IK, even if he is MOBY (allegedly)


Pillbug

I just finished a rewatch, but gently caress it, I'm down.

JFC
Oct 16, 2003

Jesus F Christ
Finger Lickin' God


I'm down for a rewatch.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006



I just finished Bates Motel, am down for a rewatch of Fringe. I haven't seen most episodes since they aired.

HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE
Mar 31, 2010




I'm overdue for a rewatch

Aexo
May 16, 2007
Don't ask, I don't know how to pronounce my name either.

Three easy things I can think of in each episode:
Glyphs
Spot the Observer
Each episode has something in it that relates to the episode following

Hard Clumping
Mar 19, 2008

Y'ALL BREADY
FOR THIS


Walter one-liners

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


Hard Clumping posted:

Walter one-liners

Walter eating
Walter getting Astrid wrong
Gene is in view.

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters



Walter and Belly having invented something preposterous in the 70's and 80's.

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

Brandon is just there, just any time good ol' Brandon is on the television screen. My buddy Brandon.

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!


Aexo posted:

Spot the Observer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzL546dSeV4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpDO9hlz4i4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jEGVTAADHM

Fox really went beyond the call of duty promoting Fringe and then keeping it running long after any other network would have cancelled it.

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Yeah, I'm down for an episode or two a week. I just watched the pilot because I had no idea when this would be starting.

Cool .gifs from the episodes would be a good idea.

Possibly restrict talk about future episodes too? Just so there's some encouragement to talk about what's actually going on, instead of Season Five again.

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009


howe_sam posted:

Walter and Belly having invented something preposterous in the 70's and 80's.

"Belly and I posited..."

also Walter listening to music.

and Dropped Plot Threads

Hard Clumping
Mar 19, 2008

Y'ALL BREADY
FOR THIS


Looks like we have some takers. So why not start noooooooooooooow

~*~*WELCOME TO THE FRINGE WATCHTHROUGH*~*~

(This discussion will be self-directed - feel free to post glyphs, observer spottings, and hints at next episodes if you wanna screencap/decipher/look them up on wiki, or write up a big ol synopsis, post some .gifs or behind the scenes trivia, stray thoughts, Whatever! Bonus points if you find old forum posts about people who came up with insane theories as the show was airing)

1x01 - Pilot

If life has taught me anything, it's that if you realize you're on any sort of J.J. Abrams production you should never set a god drat foot on an airplane.



Synopsis: Olive gets Walter out of crazy jail with the help of Peter-With-The-Furrowed-Brow, Broyles is a complete rear end in a top hat this episode and never again, Astrid's Hair hasn't settled (nor has Massive Dynamic/S), and silly old John Scott is so flustered about being found out as a double agent that he trips and spills a whole thing of strawberry jam.



He just spills all his jammy wams and falls asleep! Poor John!

Discuss.

Hard Clumping fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Nov 23, 2014

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!


Hard Clumping posted:

Broyles is a complete rear end in a top hat this episode and never again, Astrid's Hair hasn't settled (nor has Massive Dynamic/S)

Poor Nina Sharp loses her rad office and robot arm.

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


...of SCIENCE! posted:

Poor Nina Sharp loses her rad office and robot arm.

She still has the arm

SpookyLizard
Feb 17, 2009


Yeah, I wonder if there's going to be a group of kids terrified of flying in this generation because they grew up with JJ Abrams poo poo and horrible things happening to planes.

Also, i'm going to second whoever was highly supportive of the first opening. That body-melty, literal jaw-droppy poo poo is loving horrific, and the opening piano gives me fuckin' goosebumps.

...of SCIENCE!
Apr 26, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!


bobkatt013 posted:

She still has the arm

Yes, albeit hidden beneath a glove as a cost-saving measure.

Also it's worth mentioning that they explicitly cast Blair Brown for Nina Sharp because she was in Altered States, which is a rad as gently caress movie.

SpookyLizard posted:

Yeah, I wonder if there's going to be a group of kids terrified of flying in this generation because they grew up with JJ Abrams poo poo and horrible things happening to planes.

Also, i'm going to second whoever was highly supportive of the first opening. That body-melty, literal jaw-droppy poo poo is loving horrific, and the opening piano gives me fuckin' goosebumps.

We lucked out because originally JJ Abrams made the opening titles himself like he did with Alias and Lost, and the results were pretty bad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmYa8v3a_8Q

But somewhere along the line better heads prevailed they got Andrew Kramer to do the opening that the show would finally use. He also did the alternate intros for later seasons and the credits for Abrams' Star Trek movies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwEnXLFDZBg

Aexo
May 16, 2007
Don't ask, I don't know how to pronounce my name either.

...of SCIENCE! posted:

Also it's worth mentioning that they explicitly cast Blair Brown for Nina Sharp because she was in Altered States, which is a rad as gently caress movie.

I'm pretty sure on one of the bluray extras they said her casting and being in Altered States was happenstance.

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

There is a parallel universe where he's right.

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


...of SCIENCE! posted:

Yes, albeit hidden beneath a glove as a cost-saving measure.

Also it's worth mentioning that they explicitly cast Blair Brown for Nina Sharp because she was in Altered States, which is a rad as gently caress movie.

It was still brought up every now and then and a major plot point at least once. I did a double feature of Altered States and Crash. That was one weird day.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Actually a pretty cool IK, even if he is MOBY (allegedly)


Pillbug

Man, after just seeing the late-series episodes, watching parts from the Dickhead Broyles days just feels weird.

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


Ugly In The Morning posted:

Man, after just seeing the late-series episodes, watching parts from the Dickhead Broyles days just feels weird.

He really changes when the guy that Olivia sent to jail is revealed to be a real piece of poo poo, and Broyles realizes that she is completely on the level.

MachuPikacchu
Oct 15, 2012

Sacre vert! Maman!



I love this entire series, but the first episode still has my favorite Walter quote:


quote:

Walter: They... They have this horrible pudding here. Butterscotch pudding on Mondays. It's dreadful.
Olivia: It's Thursday.
Walter: Oh. Fantastic news!

WarLocke
Jun 6, 2004

You are being watched. :allears:


MachuPikacchu posted:

I love this entire series, but the first episode still has my favorite Walter quote:

Well obviously it being Thursday means he doesn't have to deal with that dreadful butterscotch pudding. :colbert:

bring back old gbs
Feb 28, 2007

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Aw man, I just unappologetically love this entire series, minus the first half of season 1. I had zero problem with how it ended, actually I loved season 5 and where they took the story. I binged it over 2 weeks though so if there were any weaker storylines I never gave them a chance to be noticed.

I think my favourite quote is "Don't you quote Oppenheimer at me!" said in an indignant old man voice.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006



The pilot's great because Walter only knows where he is and what's going on half the time, but when he does he gets ashamed of what he can't remember or forgets. He also veers wildly between the competent pre-surgery Walter and the goofy Walter he usually is.

I wonder if they were still working out how he went from one to the other at that point.

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bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?


Yeah I will have my thoughts on the pilot later tonight. It will be interesting to see if I can do it without going into spoiler territory or talking about dropped plotlines.

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