Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

Everyone food up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iVeXt35x_E



PS: This is the poo poo:

Hard Clumping posted:

Here's a mostly-working youtube playlist of every song Walter Bishop listened to or heard during the course of the show

EDIT: :siren: :siren: :siren: :siren: :siren: :siren: :siren: :siren: :siren: :siren: :siren: :siren: :siren: :siren: :siren:

Despite the plea to use spoiler tags, we proceeded to immediately spoil some major poo poo in this show, so if you still haven't watched it yet, gently caress off and come back.

grilldos fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Nov 20, 2014

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DybrM4CSNy4

If there was a better way to end the first episode of Season 5 and establish every theme at once, I don't know it.

Also, Peter deleting himself from existence was a super cool hosed up moment and I will treasure the what-in-the-gently caress mind break it generated in me forever.

PriorMarcus posted:

That way Peter can form bonds with people over there and when he does eventually join the two universe's together it feels more like a character decision rather than a plot one.

I do like this idea, but they reached the benefits of that approach (making the other side and its characters sympathetic) eventually and effectively anyway. Our Main Characters Fighting To Be Together has always been the most important thing for the writing team.

grilldos fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Nov 18, 2014

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

I choose to file those things under They Wanted Seven Seasons And Got Five So Fast-track Some Of This poo poo.

However, I enjoyed how offhand the First People explanation was, it suits Walter. That seasons-long worldbuilding of an advanced but extinct race of humans that served as an odd macguffin for some current events? Yeah that was just this crazy old man's necessary paradox that got embellished organically over time, whatever, I heard there are milkshakes here, where are the milkshakes??

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

I'd pay good money for one of those vinyls. And there were a lot less pressed than that.

Edit: Hell.

grilldos fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Nov 18, 2014

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

Somewhere there are about 8 people who have this album, thinking it's some cool looking forgotten record. And JJ Abrams jerks off to this fact at night.

Fun fact: JJ Abrams name-dropped Violet Sedan Chair before season 1 even finished airing.

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

We need to add a line to the OP after "ending on its own terms" that says "which means the ending is one of the most satisfying finishes a science fiction program has ever dished out" to help our friends with the neat stars next to their names.

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

thexerox123 posted:

The fact that nearly everyone dislikes season 4 really bugs me for some reason.
Like yeah yeah, they hit the reset button, what a shame. But in my opinion it made for an interesting, unexpected season, and you got to see new facets of character interaction between the leads.
I guess I just really respect the showrunners for trying something interesting, experimental, and unexpected - which is what I watched Fringe for! - and it seems dumb to me that so many people just dismiss it out of hand.

I'd take a show that is willing to completely change their characters' history to explore a fun sci-fi idea over one that is too afraid to try that any day.

The thing about shaking your fist at Season 4's resetting of poo poo that I find interesting is that it's a matter of semantics meets personal baggage. When you come down to it, the Prime universe of Season 4 is just another parallel universe. The problem is that the audience is fine with parallel universes only when "home" still exists, and Season 4 took that off the table. It only ended up giving the "home" universe back in the form of memories for a small group of characters.

I understand why that rubs people the wrong way, but one of the messages of Season 4 that's essential to hammer home is the idea of real consequences for actions in a way that truly affects the audience. The show explores consequences-of-actions through Walter with the entire run, but to the viewer it's ultimately inconsequential and a necessary plot-device character flaw that drives Walter's development. Our heroes always mostly fix Walter's latest fuckup-that's-come-back-to-haunt-them by the end of the 42 minutes. Season 4 provides a real consequence that affects the audience's sentiments in a startling and undeniable way that both makes Season 5's setting shift less startling and its redemption story all the more meaningful.


And to be clear, I also was really annoyed with Season 4 during its airing, but once the show wrapped up, I really really appreciated what it accomplished as a whole thematically.

grilldos fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Nov 21, 2014

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

Brandon is just there, just any time good ol' Brandon is on the television screen. My buddy Brandon.

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

There is a parallel universe where he's right.

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

That episode was such a mind-gently caress when it aired. Ironically it probably helped the episode's reception because it kept the fans interested both during and after the airing.

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

Never skip, never surrender.

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

Don't press us on it, we don't crumble under pressure.

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:

Everyone I'd like to have a moment of silence for Agent Jessup. She disappeared as quickly as she arrived.

...

bobkatt013 posted:

The Observers were more like September, as everything needed to happen still in order for the Observers to be created as they did.

Massive, huge spoilers follow. Like the biggest spoilers.

So I bought September's Notebook, and it's fantastic. It's got the white tulip envelope, and there is a rare special version of the book with a copy of the white tulip drawing tucked inside of it. What's great about it is it ties a lot of loose ends together by making the implicit of the show more explicit.

All of the instances where we see September in the show are out of chronological order from September's point of view. Him and Walter loving up the timeline causes a few things: 1) September to try and fix the it so the future where Observers can come into being can still occur, 2) Walter's love for his child to inspire September to rescue his own special son and put him in safe keeping, and 3) September to begin intense self-reflection about the nature of his own race. He continues his normal Observer duties and cleans up his mess through seasons 1-4, until he finds out that his job was actually prep work for a violent invasion of the past. He ultimately decides to try and change history again so that the Observers never evolve the way they did (which was through dropping Emotions from the human mind through tech). He uses his Observer timeline-parsing powers to go through thousands upon thousands of permutations before figuring out the perfect way to accomplish that goal, with Walter helping to narrow the scope by suggesting September's special son could be used as a key component. This big picture stuff is all explained pretty well in the show, but the book fills in a lot of the gaps.


Kurtofan posted:

I thought the ending was weird, if the observers never existed, then Peter should have never been saved etc...

This on the surface is fair, but if you keep what I said above in mind, it can be explained away in that the Observers of the show were a necessary paradox in order for the better version of them (+Emotions!) to exist due to September's son traveling through time, or that there are many parallel universes and we the audience are only concerned with this specific one blah blah blah.

But those are weak and boring explanations. This plot hole is actually symptomatic of an even bigger one: September's conversation with Peter in 4x14. So in this hugely expository scene we have September saying a shitload of important stuff about what Observers even are, why they had to have Peter reset the timeline, and so on. But remember, the reset reality is one where Walter still broke the universes but Peter ended up drowning. Why the gently caress does September give a rat's dick about a kid being born to the "wrong" Olivia when the Observers end up being content with Peter not even existing as an adult at all, let alone being capable of impregnating the "right" Olivia.

I like to explain this away with a fun little pet theory of mine with little to no hard evidence: that September is telling half-truths and manipulating Peter in that scene. My idea is that September is the original "Walter" in a thematic sense, in regards to a redemption story, that in order to save his son he manipulated the timeline deliberately from the start (interrupting Walternate, letting Walter cross over and back, then saving Walter & Peter's life, getting Henrietta to exist so she can be a catalyst in his plan's final stages, etc.), resulting in countless deaths and lives being erased from existence but all redeemed and justified in that he saves the entire human race. His molding of Walter is to suit his end, to share the philosophical burden, and get a like-minded partner to share his fate. He's a good guy doing what he "has to do" for the greater good. I've got a handful of additional specific circumstantial moments to support this idea that I've never formally organized on paper because why bother, it'll be a lot of words, and the crap on my list is probably all probably network TV fuckups anyway.

Anyway, September's Notebook is pretty cool. It has folders with posters in them.

grilldos fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Dec 5, 2014

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

Hello, Not David Bowie.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

grilldos
Mar 27, 2004

BUST A LOAF
IN THIS
YEAST CONFECTION


Grimey Drawer

That's a lie. He's a liberal arts white who's too busy Ingesting Content and Analyzing Tropes As Applied To Historical And Current Cultural Modes to alt-tab his downloaded .mkvs to screencap a Fridge episode.*





*He's busy and a cool dude. He just had a birthday!

  • Locked thread