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Elmnt80
Dec 30, 2012

I write my poems in the dirt with an oily rag
I have to wear a gas mask just so I don't gag
I got a SOCOM scout and twenty extra mags
And a couple severed heads in my bug-out bag






Since the old thread was apparently lost to the depths, I'm opening a new thread for people to discuss boats, ships, personal water craft and pretty much anything that goes on (or under) the water. If you've got something you want to show off, dumb questions about why your poo poo keeps sinking on you or you just saw something amazing and feel like sharing it then this is the place for you to post it. Anything is welcome, even sailboats, so post away!

Have some fine examples of the kind of posts you should be making in this thread:

Preoptopus posted:

Boats with cool engines you say?

Feruccio Lamborghini bought the most beautiful boat Riva Aquarama in the world and said gently caress a Chrysler v8s, I need a pair of my 4.0l v12's


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LkQbVTWr4g

I should mention that normally thoes boats go from 300 to 600 thousand dollars. I cant imagine what that one would be worth.

VikingSkull posted:

Powerboats, like any high-buck enterprise, sometimes attract a certain type of owner. It's to be expected, but the flipside is there are usually just as many who are happy to bring you on a ride to show off and share in their good fortune if you ask.

I get to work on the big powerboats a lot because the other people in my department are normal, non-autists when it comes to high performance poo poo. I really do love my job sometimes. Mostly, they are "normal" Cigarettes, Fountains and the like. Cigarette is a brand name, but it's also synonymous with the class of boat and you might hear them referred to as such even if it's a different brand.

This is one of the "normal" boats we get, this one sold for around $65,000 IIRC, listed for about $250,000 new though I may be wrong on that.













Also, a correction, the Zul engines in the Cigarette I posted earlier were not Mercury Marine based, they are custom Merlin blocks that originally displaced 540 cubic inches (8.8L for you Euro guys), they were punched out to 620ci IIRC (10.2L!)

And lastly, I'm going to try to keep a handy reference center for boating regulations by country and general safety tips. I'll add to this list as I find stuff in the thread or online and please feel free to PM me if you have something you want added.
UK Boating Regulations
US Boating Regulations

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SlimManFat
Nov 12, 2010

RUST RUST RUST RUST RUST RUST RUST RUST RUST RUST RUST RUST RUST RUST RUST

Oh yes, I approve. Might as well share this one:



This is my family's fishing boat. Built by my father and grandfather. 45ft longliner. We used to fish for snow crab, capelin, herring and mackrel depending in the season.

Sadly, we all had to go and pursue different trades and split the enterprise amongst us on good terms.

We sold the boat and the commercial licenses and split the cash.

I miss being on the Grand Banks with family and friends all the time, but that's life.

SlimManFat fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Nov 19, 2014

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta


Wish I could afford some of those boats. I've ridden in a few different Baja models and they are fantastic and sound amazing.

I'm looking at getting a boat this spring/summer. Looking for a 21-ish foot open-bow I/O, something to hang out on the Ohio river with.

angryhampster
Oct 21, 2005



Autoboative Insanity: How do I get out of the slip"??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww_tNE39v_s



I love the sound go-fast boats make
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS_AhtCbXIo

Slow is Fast
Dec 25, 2006





All I have is my grandfathers 14ft aluminum. It has a Mercury outboard I need to get running and throw on in the spring.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



Boats are a great way to enjoy nature. I'd love to get something affordable so I could go fishing, diving etc. Or whale watching, like these two guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFf74QHAFrE

The guy not filming says he can see bubbles all around them. Then suddenly...

Collateral Damage
Jun 13, 2009



To quote an ex colleague of mine: "The best two days of my entire boat ownership was the day I bought the boat and the day I sold the boat."

MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


Collateral Damage posted:

To quote an ex colleague of mine: "The best two days of my entire boat ownership was the day I bought the boat and the day I sold the boat."

The three F's is a relevant concept.

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007


A boat is a hole in the water you throw money into.


That said, someday I hope to own a ~40-45' cruising catamaran for long-range (eventual circumnavigation) sailing. I'm skippering a Voyage 440P out of Soper's Hole, Tortola, BVI this coming May, with a bunch of friends crewing, and planning another bareboat charter trip for early (January-March) 2016 as well, possibly in Belize.

If you know what you're getting into and don't just plan on having the boat sitting around while you sink money into it, it isn't a terrible idea. If you're not rich and you won't be using your boat quite often it's really a better idea to find rental or boat timeshare type things to use instead.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta


How bad is it really though? If I do all the work myself, winterize it properly and store it in a garage all winter, what kind of excruciating costs am I looking at? Assuming I get a somewhat solid boat to begin with.

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007


revmoo posted:

How bad is it really though? If I do all the work myself, winterize it properly and store it in a garage all winter, what kind of excruciating costs am I looking at? Assuming I get a somewhat solid boat to begin with.
I guess if you're getting something you can fit in a garage and tow it isn't going to be as bad as a larger boat that you have to moor year-round, but you'll still be looking at checking (and often replacing) seacocks, seals, doing detailed checks of the bilge pumps each year, etc then you'll keep the costs down. That said, a trailer is not a drydock, and there are going to be things you simply cannot do.

I'm honestly not familiar with smaller boats, and I've only learned maintenance for cruising-size sailboats (thus have very little experience doing any on marine gasoline engines), so I can't be as helpful here as others who I'm sure will speak up about their costs.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

#basta


Yeah like I said I'm just looking for a runabout that I can pickup for 3-4k and spend hopefully less than a thousand a year on maintenance with. I'm hoping that by keeping it in fresh water and garaging it when not in use will keep down on some of the costs. I already have storage and a tow vehicle so really all I need is boat + registration/taxes, plus stuff like life jackets, flares, etc etc etc.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.

Grimey Drawer

Well, it's no race winner for sure.



Me and my dads 6 meter (about 20 feet) double ender (swedish: snipa). Came with a Solo S31 engine, a two-stroke single cylinder 3hp kerosene/petrol dual-fuel engine. 500cc, 750 rpm redline. Right now there's a Solo H52 in there, two cylinder four-stroke, 5 wild hp. Both hand crank starters with magneto ignition. And yes, that's my dad using a manual bilge pump while wearing a suit.

Elmnt80
Dec 30, 2012

I write my poems in the dirt with an oily rag
I have to wear a gas mask just so I don't gag
I got a SOCOM scout and twenty extra mags
And a couple severed heads in my bug-out bag






If you know what you're doing, its not too expensive. I've got an 25+ year old 17 1/2" long flats boat thats been in mostly salt water all its life, but decent care and maintenance have kept it going. And just like with a car, you can take it to a shop if you don't mind spending more or you can do it yourself for much, much less.


Speaking of which, have a picture of said boat along with an rear end in a top hat ex-friend and his ex-gf standing in front of it. This was the first year I had it working after it sat for the better part of a decade. About $250 spent on replacing dry rotted hoses and parts, rebuilding the carbs, replacing various fluids and rebuilding the lights on the damned trailer 3 times was all it really took to bring it back to life.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!



Ola posted:

Boats are a great way to enjoy nature. I'd love to get something affordable so I could go fishing, diving etc. Or whale watching, like these two guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFf74QHAFrE

The guy not filming says he can see bubbles all around them. Then suddenly...

I like the translated subtitles "[Swearing]"

Rime
Nov 2, 2011
Ecofascist; no ability to listen or admit mistakes; complains constantly; would be a terrorist if he really believed his CC doom-saying


Sweet, I searched all the forums and was surprised there was no thread for marine hijinks anywhere.

I'm taking a sailing course next month that'll get to basic crew certification , after years of fighting back the urge. Quite excited.

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007


Rime posted:

Sweet, I searched all the forums and was surprised there was no thread for marine hijinks anywhere.

I'm taking a sailing course next month that'll get to basic crew certification , after years of fighting back the urge. Quite excited.
Excellent. Are you in the US? If so I'm guessing you're taking ASA 101 and 103?

I've completed those, 104 (Bareboat Charter), and 114 (Cruising Multihull). I'm going to get 105 (Advanced Costal Navigation) done soon (aka when I get around to signing up for the course, it's a study-and-exam course so it's a good one to do over the winter)

Rime
Nov 2, 2011
Ecofascist; no ability to listen or admit mistakes; complains constantly; would be a terrorist if he really believed his CC doom-saying


Canada, (CYA) Basic Crew / Basic Cruising standard. Hoping to get VHF / Nav done in the spring when my schedule is open again.

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007


Rime posted:

Canada, (CYA) Basic Crew / Basic Cruising standard. Hoping to get VHF / Nav done in the spring when my schedule is open again.

Ok yeah, sounds like the equivalent of ASA 101/103 then. Our VHF / Nav stuff is also contained in the 103 and 104 courses.

Bibendum
Sep 5, 2003
nunc est Bibendum



That is exactly what I want for putting around the sound, but my norwegian ancestors demand it have a Sabb G10 engine.

I really miss living on boats and being on the water.

Tekne
Feb 15, 2012

It's-a me, motherfucker


SS Delphine, Horace Dodge's personal yacht, is still seaworthy and providing voyages for lucky bastards.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBf8PPq8PrU

Elmnt80
Dec 30, 2012

I write my poems in the dirt with an oily rag
I have to wear a gas mask just so I don't gag
I got a SOCOM scout and twenty extra mags
And a couple severed heads in my bug-out bag






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knUneRfvY_o
Got to see one of these make a practice pass at a local lake while growing up and it made a hell of an impression on me. Sadly the guy had a game warden on his rear end about 15 seconds afterwards since the lake wasn't closed down for an event and there were people on the water that day. They're just an insane mix of noise and fury to see and I just realized I really need to go see if they host any events down here in the tampa area.

NumbersMatching320
Oct 24, 2010

RESALE VALUE, MEIN HERR




Pillbug

revmoo posted:

Yeah like I said I'm just looking for a runabout that I can pickup for 3-4k and spend hopefully less than a thousand a year on maintenance with. I'm hoping that by keeping it in fresh water and garaging it when not in use will keep down on some of the costs. I already have storage and a tow vehicle so really all I need is boat + registration/taxes, plus stuff like life jackets, flares, etc etc etc.

It's not impossible. Friend of mine bought an '88 22ft Larson with a 4.3 and a Mercury stern drive for $4k and I'm not sure if he just got lucky or what but his maintenance costs were ridiculously low. The only thing he ever had to do was replace a cracked exhaust manifold (which had been epoxied previously, but a new one was about $120 so he refrained from doing the same) and fix a stupid linage issue that caused it to stall going into reverse. He kept it outside through the summer and garaged it in winter, and did the fall services himself for about $30. Fuel was the only real significant expense.
And we had that prick in the water every single weekend with good weather (and really if the weather wasn't great we'd still go out and fish with it) for the last 2 years, beating the hell out of it the whole way.

Alctel
Jan 16, 2004

I love snails




angryhampster posted:

Autoboative Insanity: How do I get out of the slip"??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ww_tNE39v_s


I see that and raise you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxg30c6z00E

I live on a 36 foot sailboat, with a 20HP diesel and got pointed to this thread by someone in my A/T thread. It's not fast, but a tank runs for ~30 hours, sends me at 6 knots and costs 40 bucks to fill, and that's if I'm not sailing.

I'm not a big fan of powerboats as a rule (their owners tend to be pretty dickish - that may entirely be confirmation bias) but a couple of my friends at the slip live on them and holy poo poo, they have a lot more room than a sailboat of the same size.

I have my CYA basic cruising cert, restricted VHF and pleasure craft operators license. I'm still real bad at sailing though

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007


Alctel posted:

holy poo poo, they have a lot more room than a sailboat of the same size.

I have my CYA basic cruising cert, restricted VHF and pleasure craft operators license. I'm still real bad at sailing though
That's why I love catamarans. Super roomy, really comfortable.

Have you sailed your boat very far (between cities? further?) or do you stay in your area?

Minus Pants
Jul 18, 2004


What's the best way to learn to sail if you don't know anyone already into it? I've taken a 1 hour crash-course and read some books, but I'm not sure where to go from here. ASA 101/103? Private lessons? Any suggestions for where to take them? I'm in Chicago, but it would be nice to get something in this winter (obviously somewhere warmer).

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007


Minus Pants posted:

What's the best way to learn to sail if you don't know anyone already into it? I've taken a 1 hour crash-course and read some books, but I'm not sure where to go from here. ASA 101/103? Private lessons? Any suggestions for where to take them? I'm in Chicago, but it would be nice to get something in this winter (obviously somewhere warmer).

Yep, ASA 101 will teach you to sail, and is a lot of good information to learn even if you've already done some sailing.

103 expands greatly on that, teaching you how to handle light coastal sailing and how to deal with heavier wind conditions.

If you're able to go somewhere warmer, there should be schools operating year-round down in South Florida.

BrokenKnucklez
Apr 22, 2008

by zen death robot


I bought an old 18' crestliner with the old 3.0 140hp iron duke motor in it. Pretty easy to take care of, just oil and fluid changes. It was a pig on fuel but eh.

The only "repairs" I did was new points and condenser, a carb rebuild, and a couple of relays. I think it cost me 20 bucks.

Mr. Wiggles
Dec 1, 2003

I would never shop at Costco. The paper towels won't fit into my sports car!


Tekne posted:

SS Delphine, Horace Dodge's personal yacht, is still seaworthy and providing voyages for lucky bastards.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBf8PPq8PrU

My goodness gracious.

Alctel
Jan 16, 2004

I love snails




Kenshin posted:

That's why I love catamarans. Super roomy, really comfortable.

Have you sailed your boat very far (between cities? further?) or do you stay in your area?

No, I took it from Vancouver to Sidney and then Sidney to Victoria (both times with help, it was about a days travel each time) but haven't really taken it very far, I've just gone fishing outside the harbour. Once I get more confident I'm gonna start doing weekends and weeks away. Amazing cruising around here. I'd love a cat, but they are so expensive

Minus Pants posted:

What's the best way to learn to sail if you don't know anyone already into it? I've taken a 1 hour crash-course and read some books, but I'm not sure where to go from here. ASA 101/103? Private lessons? Any suggestions for where to take them? I'm in Chicago, but it would be nice to get something in this winter (obviously somewhere warmer).

Is there a sailing club near you that does racing? If so, they are always looking for crew members, even beginners.

Alctel fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Nov 20, 2014

SuperDucky
May 13, 2007

by exmarx


Minus Pants posted:

What's the best way to learn to sail if you don't know anyone already into it? I've taken a 1 hour crash-course and read some books, but I'm not sure where to go from here. ASA 101/103? Private lessons? Any suggestions for where to take them? I'm in Chicago, but it would be nice to get something in this winter (obviously somewhere warmer).

Like alctel said, racing. In Chicago, give the match racing center a call. They should be able to point you in the right direction/hook you up work a crew looking for a newbie.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


Slippery Tilde

I sail on a 10-meter plastic sailboat from the 70's in the Baltic sea. It's not mine (belongs to a friend of my father's), but I get to use it in exchange for helping maintaining it. It really does need some maintenance, it's been sort of neglected for the last ten years or so. Still works great but there's a bunch of deferred maintenance things I oughta do.



Currently it looks something like this. The Baltic freezes over in winter so you gotta put your boat up on land over the winter. Also pictured is the boat's actual owner.




This summer was pretty amazing, though.


The Baltic is a pretty friendly place in summer and there's always shelter to be found in case of harsh weather, so it's an excellent place for babby's first sailing experience. I'm not really what you could call experienced, but I know the basics and the limits of my capacity.

What's really amazing about sailing in Sweden though is the right of public access; as long as you're not in someone's literal backyard, you can just go ashore anywhere you like and stay the night, either on your boat or in a tent. For me sailing is more about nature than about Gotta Go Fast. Going fast is fun too, though.

The sailing season is pretty short, though. If you're not really resistant to cold it's basically from late May to mid October. The ice sheet usually lasts between January and April, and while you can technically sail as soon as the ice is gone, most people choose to keep it to the "real" summer months (June to August).

Also, if you exclude the mooring (which tends to be really loving expensive), owning and operating a sailboat is really remarkably cheap. Wind doesn't cost you anything, and if you choose to run on the diesel fuel consumption is really, really low even if you don't get to go that fast. Maintenance costs money of course, but really, it's surprisingly cheap considering how big a boat you can live aboard is. Purchasing a boat tends to be pretty expensive, though.

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Nov 20, 2014

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



Tekne posted:

SS Delphine, Horace Dodge's personal yacht, is still seaworthy and providing voyages for lucky bastards.


Oh my god. I've always thought the high tech luxury yachts that superstars and CEOs get are ridiculous but this baby is something else. If I ever make it big etc.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



TheFluff posted:

I sail on a 10-meter plastic sailboat from the 70's in the Baltic sea.

Lovely! The Baltic sea is quite brackish, isn't it? At least I know shipwrecks are very well preserved there, is there less growth (and perhaps less maintenance) on the hull as well?

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


Slippery Tilde

Ola posted:

Lovely! The Baltic sea is quite brackish, isn't it? At least I know shipwrecks are very well preserved there, is there less growth (and perhaps less maintenance) on the hull as well?

Yeah, the Baltic's not very salty at all. Less corrosion on metal parts, less barnacle growth, just less underwater problems in general. Very convenient!

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007


Yeah, that's one of the big periodic expenses for ocean-going vessels. There are paints that are very effective anti-barnacle and other damage that apparently can be effective, but also quite expensive.

I'm a really big fan of cruising catamarans as I said. Here are a few of the type I want to be able to buy "someday":

MaineCat 41:
http://www.mecat.com/boats/maine-cat-41
Beautiful design that is well-suited to long-range, cross-ocean sailing. I really like the inclusion of a cockpit bunk:


Being a small company they only seem to make one model at a time, and have switched all their manufacturing over to the slightly more compact Maine Cat 38. I did just get an email about a 2012 model Maine Cat 41 going up for sale for $440,000 though: http://www.mecat.com/maine-catamaran-brokerage/12
Too bad it'll be a while until I can afford that sort of thing.

At the higher end of the market is the beautiful Catana 42. French sailboats are beautiful and really loving expensive.

I'm not entirely sure of the pricing but I think they start (without options) around 400,000 or so. The Catana 48 can easily get up to 800k if I recall correctly.


Someday.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



This is probably one of those ridiculous debates like motor oil or whatever, but I've heard that catamarans on the big ocean was a no-no since they won't right themselves if they capsize. How does it rate between 1 and 10 on the bovine scatometer?

Ola fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Nov 20, 2014

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007


Ola posted:

This is probably one those ridiculous debates like motor oil or whatever, but I've heard that catamarans on the big ocean was a no-no since they won't right themselves if they capsize. How does it rate between 1 and 10 on the bovine scatometer?
It's true, but it's mostly a non-issue with modern catamaran design.

The problem with older catamaran designs is they didn't have several things that modern catamarans do such as a forward trampoline (instead having solid decking) or a "dolphin striker" underneath between the two hulls (EDIT: The ASA multihull book agrees with me here even though wikipedia doesn't about what the dolphin striker is). So what would happen is that air and waves would result in a lot of upward pressure on the bow of the boat and could flip it in bad weather.

Modern catamarans don't have this problem due to updated designs.

Sure, if you flip your catamaran, you're not going to get it righted. But any modern catamaran is extremely difficult to flip, even in large waves and heavy winds. The other important difference between sailing a catamaran and a monohull is that on a monohull you have a large gradient between "strong wind" and "scary strong wind" where you can decide when and how much to reef your sails. You can't do that with a catamaran--you really don't even want to heel more than about 5 degrees to the side, so instead it's important to know the manufacturer-stated reefing points (in terms of speed of the wind) and to follow those carefully.


tl;dr: older designs of cruising catamarans (and I suppose trailerable ones too) were prone to flipping in heavy weather but newer designs are not, and that's where the reputation for them being dangerous to use cross-ocean comes from

Kenshin fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Nov 21, 2014

Ola
Jul 19, 2004



Right, so it's more of (or just as much) a wind catch thing than a rolling upright thing. Still, if you go under with your monohull mid-Atlantic and roll upright again, I bet it's still not a great day out.

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Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007


Ola posted:

Right, so it's more of (or just as much) a wind catch thing than a rolling upright thing. Still, if you go under with your monohull mid-Atlantic and roll upright again, I bet it's still not a great day out.
Yeah, it's gonna be a bad day no matter what boat you're on. That's why a lot of modern EPIRBs are water activated.

I'd asked these same questions of my instructor (the amazingly experienced owner of Puget Sound Sailing Institute, Mike Rice, who did his first ocean crossing in the 60s(?) at age 16) and he basically said that it was a non-issue these days.

Here's quick rundown off the top of my head of advantages/disadvantages of multi-hull vs. monohull:

Catamarans:
+ More stable. The boat doesn't heel side to side, thus living quarters and the galley don't have to be secured as heavily against items rolling around as on a monohull. More comfortable for long term sailing and living due to this.
+ Shallow draft. There are a lot of places in the world that a catamaran can get to that a monohull cannot. This is particularly applicable to areas with shallow reefs (especially in the Caribbean, Pacific, and Indian oceans).
+ Lots of living space. A 40' catamaran is going to have ~2.5x the livable space of a 40' monohull.
+ Redundant engines. The vast majority of modern cruising catamarans have at least two diesel engines and many have a third devoted to power generation (a genset). You can motor just fine on one engine (though you have to adjust your rudder a bit to compensate). The other advantage of two engines is maneuverability in tight spots: if you're careful you can spin your catamaran around in place.
+ Higher speed in a given wind. Catamarans tend to be around 15% faster than a monohull with similar sails.
+ Lots of surface area for solar panels
- More tacking is required going upwind. Most catamarans have are close-hauled at about 45 degrees to the wind, though daggerboards can help push that further in toward--and sometimes below--40 degrees. (daggerboards have other benefits as well)
- More strict reefing requirements. As discussed above you really don't want your catamaran heeling much at all, so you need to be very aware of the wind speed and reef your sails accordingly.
- Less available moorage. Most docks are designed for monohulls and catamarans are often too wide to fit. (there are "extra skinny" catamarans designed to get around this problem but they come with stability disadvantages and should be avoided)

Monohulls:
+ A heavy keel means your sailboat will always try to right itself
+ ~30 degree close-hauled angle
- Less comfortable at anchor (unless you don't mind lots of rolling)

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