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Jerusalem posted:It is really disappointing (and disturbing). I think the closest thing we've actually seen to a story that does explore an actually mature (and not adolescently grim or salacious) look at something to do with a character's sexuality is in The Doctor Dances where they "dance" around the issue of the Doctor as a sexual being. Even that is damning with faint praise, and I think the well has been poisoned by poo poo like sophiealdreddrippingincumbookcover.jpg And yet that's still better than Nekromanteia.
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Mar 9, 2015 22:25
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Fil5000 posted:And yet that's still better than Nekromanteia. I don't own that one, and I'm far too scared to ask what it's about 
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Mar 9, 2015 22:32
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Jerusalem posted:I don't own that one, and I'm far too scared to ask what it's about Just the Doctor getting his head ripped off, naked Peri, and implied Erimem rape. Rumor is that Davison specifically asked for the writer never to be hired again... Anyway, off to write my Always Sunny fanfic, The Gang Resurrects Adric.
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Mar 9, 2015 22:57
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CobiWann posted:Anyway, off to write my Always Sunny fanfic, The Gang Resurrects Adric. Can't be worse than The Boy That Time Forgot
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Mar 9, 2015 22:59
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CobiWann posted:Rumor is that Davison specifically asked for the writer never to be hired again... Based on that spoilered text, I'd hope he dressed the writer up in a 5th Doctor costume and shoved him in the general direction of Mark Gatiss and David Walliams.
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Mar 9, 2015 23:25
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Actually, the writer's still involved with Who. He owns Planet 55 Studios, the company that animated the missing eps to The Regin of Terror, The Tenth Planet, and The Moonbase.
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Mar 9, 2015 23:36
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CobiWann posted:Just the Doctor getting his head ripped off, naked Peri, and implied Erimem rape. You're forgetting the best (?) part: the implied rapist gets the happiest ending.
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Mar 10, 2015 00:07
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When I think about what the worst Big Finish story is, I usually think of The Seed of the Kromon, but yeah, it's Nekromanteia. It doesn't even really have a compelling story to go with all the gross stuff. In other "not very good stories" news, I just finished The Death Collectors, which started out very interesting, but very quickly turned into one of duller stories I'd heard by Big Finish in awhile. In general, I have not cared for the Seventh Doctor alone stories, which always seem to have a would-be companion around for the one-off that they try a bit too hard to get you to like.
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Mar 10, 2015 00:12
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Bicyclops posted:When I think about what the worst Big Finish story is, I usually think of The Seed of the Kromon, but yeah, it's Nekromanteia. It doesn't even really have a compelling story to go with all the gross stuff. It's Creed of the Kromon, but Seed is... yeah. Grotesquely fitting.
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Mar 10, 2015 00:19
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I've been on a binge as of late. Mostly 8 though I also listened to Excelis Rising (which felt really short and a bit of a disappointment compared to Dawns.) Chimes of Midnight is as good as everyone says, Neverland was a little overcomplicated but I like Time Lord weirdness, and Zagreus is hugely overcomplicated but lots of fun. One thing I've noticed is BF is fond of puzzle stories where it's really not clear what's happening until near the end. Sometimes it works- Chimes is entirely that kind of story- but it can get annoying and I think I'm in the mood for some more straightforward adventures.
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Mar 10, 2015 02:03
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Maxwell Lord posted:I've been on a binge as of late. Mostly 8 though I also listened to Excelis Rising (which felt really short and a bit of a disappointment compared to Dawns.) Chimes of Midnight is as good as everyone says, Neverland was a little overcomplicated but I like Time Lord weirdness, and Zagreus is hugely overcomplicated but lots of fun. Davros has the question of what Davros' true motivations are, but imagine two hours of Six and Davros yelling at each other. In terms of straight adventure, The Eye of the Scorpion and The Church and the Crown might be of interest to you.
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Mar 10, 2015 02:51
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Davros may be a good idea seeing as the best part of Zagreus was "Arrogant? Me? THE GREATEST INTELLECT IN THE UNIVERSE?!"
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Mar 10, 2015 02:54
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CobiWann posted:Anyway, off to write my Always Sunny fanfic, The Gang Resurrects Adric. The reason the Doctor gives up a vegetarian lifestyle is that Frank Reynolds introduces him to the legendary Rum-Ham. I'll let you choose which post-Sixth, pre-Ninth Doctor he gets along with best.
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Mar 10, 2015 03:11
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 "Welcome back, Doctor..." Centuries ago on the war-torn planet Skaro a great scientist created the most evil creatures the Universe would ever know… Daleks. It was at their genesis that the scientist, Davros, first met and was defeated by the Doctor. Over the years and throughout space, they fought, a fight that ended with the Doctor’s destruction of Skaro and the Daleks. Except… Davros survived. Alone. In the dark. With only thoughts of revenge keeping him alive. The Doctor is back. Davros is waiting. Their destiny is now. Paul McGann is the Doctor in Terror Firma X X X X X Cast Paul McGann (The Doctor) India Fisher (Charley Pollard) Conrad Westmaas(C'Rizz); Terry Molloy (Davros) Julia Deakin (Harriet Griffin); Lee Ingleby (Samson Griffin) Lizzie Hopley (Gemma Griffin) Nicholas Briggs (Dalek Voices) Written By: Joseph Lidster Directed By: Gary Russell http://www.bigfinish.com/releases/popout/terror-firma-238 X X X X X During the mid 90’s, I was a huge fan of The X-Files. My mother and I had radically different tastes when it came to television and movies. When it came to The X-Files, however, we never missed an episode. I would pick up any magazine with a blurb about the show on the front cover and buy any “guidebook” to the show, official or unofficial, while she learned how to program our VCR to record the episodes I would miss while at work so we could watch them together. When I went to college, our weekly phone conversations would always get around to what the Cigarette Smoking Man had been up to in the past episode, while throwing out wild theories about upcoming seasons that turned out to be completely wrong. We never missed a season, and one of the last mother-son moments we had together before I moved to another city for my new job was watching the series finale together. The X-Files was one of the first shows I experienced with a “myth arc,” an overarching story line across not only a few episodes, but whole seasons. Granted, I don’t think I could properly explain what the hell was going on during all nine seasons, but there was always this sense of overall mystery, that any episode could be a game-changer, shaking up the status quo and peeling back the layers of intrigue. The end of the second season and beginning of the third comprises a three-episode storyline that consisted of boxcars buried in the desert, encrypted tapes, Navajo codebreakers, genetic marking for post-apocalypse corpse identification, Nazi scientists, and alien-human hybrids. It was a huge moment for the show and one that kept my mother and I talking all summer about what it all could possibly mean. After the final episode in the storyline, where Mulder knows about the conspiracy and Scully had reaffirmed her belief in the X-Files and wanting to discover the truth, the next episode see the pair going to Oklahoma to investigate a teenager who could control lightning. No mention of the massive events of the previous episodes, no traumatic dreams, no change in mannerisms. Just…investigating a kid who could control lightning. Granted, that particular episode was a very GOOD episode and a personal favorite (D.P.O. for those of you keeping score) and the show would get back to the myth arc later in the season, but the sudden switch in tone and downplaying of urgency was very jarring. Terror Firma sees the Doctor return home after several adventures in the Divergent Universe. However, as soon as he steps outside of the TARDIS, he’s met by an old and familiar enemy, an old and familiar race of hostile aliens, and some new friends…friends he SHOULD remember. On paper, Terror Firma should be a slam-bang masterpiece. But instead, what listeners get is a minor disappointment, whose faults boil down to two simple points; this writer can’t write an ending to save his life, and he also seems more concerned with making a major impact on “canon” than anything else. Time flows once again for the Doctor. Charley is back in her home universe. C’rizz is in a strange new world. And waiting for them are none other than the Daleks and their leader…Davros. Having created a new, strong, superior species of Dalek, Davros has engaged in nothing more than the complete and utter destruction of the Doctor, beginning with the planet he holds most dear to his hearts, Earth, which has been conquered by this new strain of Dalek, save for one small seaside town in England. Charley and C’Rizz are first captured, then separated, then rescued by a pair of wayward siblings, Gemma and Samson, while the Doctor leans that here’s much more in play than the fate of Earth. Not content with wiping out humanity, Davros has gone one step further, toying with the one thing the Doctor cares for more than Earth…his companions. But Gemma and Samson have never been the Doctor’s companions…have they? With the revival of Doctor Who in full swing on the BBC, Terror Firma was released by Big Finish in August of 2005. It definitively brought to an end the Eighth Doctor’s time in the Divergent Universe by using a setting familiar to fans (Earth), the show’s most iconic aliens (the Daleks), and one of the series’ biggest villains (Davros) to establish the Doctor had returned to the space-time continuum he knows and loves. The production of Terror Firma was a pivotal moment for Big Finish. With the Ninth Doctor (and the just-announced Tenth Doctor) off and running on television, here was a chance for Big Finish to firmly establish themselves and their audio line in the minds of the fanbase with a series of classic Doctors and a “new” Doctor who had just as much potential for memorable adventures as any of the others. But then they handed the scriptwriting duties over to Joseph Lidster. Lidster is a name well known to Big Finish fans for his divisive audios. With two more to come after Terror Firma, by this point Lidster had penned The Rapture and Master. The Rapture was a “don't do drugs, kids” screed mixed with angels and rave music, while Master a three-episode meditation on the nature of personal evil absolutely ruined by the introduction of Death as a character in the fourth episode in an attempt to completely re-write the relationship between the Master and the Doctor. There are a variety of concerns I have with Lidster's script, beginning with its all-over-the-place presentation. In many ways, Terror Firma reminded me a classic television episode of Doctor Who, with the Doctor and companion(s) split up over a variety of locations experiencing different aspects of the overall plot before being brought back together for the big finale. From the very beginning, the Doctor is confronted with Davros, Charley ends up with Samson and his mother in the last pub on Earth, and C'rizz is led by Gemma through the Chunnel towards the base of the French resistance. While moving back and forth between this different scenes keeps the plot moving, the transition between scenes becomes very jarring very quickly. The background noise alone for each setting goes a long way to setting the mood; the electrical hum of Davros' laboratory/throne room, the clinking of glasses Charley hears in the pub, and the dripping echoes in the Chunnel as C'rizz passes through. But Lidster insists on overusing a literary device, where the last word a character speaks in a scene is instead the first work spoken by a different character in a new scene. This specific transition happens a LOT in Terror Firma, and instead of being a pertinent moment or even quirky, it quickly comes off as annoying. Lidster also uses what should be this absolutely huge, crushing event as nothing more than background dressing. In terms of Davros' timeline, this story takes place directly after the destruction of Skaro at the indirect hands of the Doctor in Remembrance of the Daleks. Davros' revenge against the Doctor is to create a brand new strain of Daleks from human beings in the process of conquering the Earth. The actual plan itself isn't a surprise...although I do wonder how this jibes with The Dalek Invasion of Earth...but having Earth invaded and destroyed twice by different Dalek invasion would be in line with the absolute misery conga Lidster puts the cast of Terror Firma through. All three main characters get put through the wringer in this story. India Fisher does a great job selling the horror of Charley finding out their her home planet has been destroyed and her species turned into Daleks and the determination in somehow fighting back against the Daleks and rescuing the Doctor, but Charley's importance to the story is minimal at best, serving mainly as the “companion on the scene” in the last pub on Earth, where the remnants of Britain drink and party away because there's no point in anything else. Finally free of the Divergent Universe, C'rizz gets some nice character development as the stranger in a stranger land, desperate to protect Charley, as well as keep her as his friend, because she's the only focal point in this entire universe. It's in this story that listeners finally see how alien C'rizz truly is, with Conrad Westmaas mixing confusion, determination, and mental anguish as he's mentally assaulted by one of Davros' creations. The end of Terror Firma sees C'rizz attempting to rest, with the various voices of his victims (and some assorted others) asking him if he'll “save” the Doctor and Charley. It's what I hope is the beginning of a potential “not-quite-good companion in the TARDIS” storyline, ala Turlough, and I keep my fingers crossed that Big Finish follows up on it in future audios. As for the Doctor...I couldn't put quite put my finger on Paul McGann's performance in this story. For a Time Lord who has come home and can once again sense the passage of time, McGann's performance is very subdued. Listeners know just how passionate and excitable the Eighth Doctor can be. But when confronted with the Daleks and Davros, the Doctor is just “ah. I am home.” And then, the Doctor gets put through Lidster's misery wringer, once AGAIN inflicted with amnesia as its slowly revealed how badly Davros has played him. For a huge homecoming episode where the Doctor's return is immediately impacted by one of his most hated enemies, upon finding out the fate of the Earth, McGann's delivery of the below line should convey something other than sheer boredom. quote:Doctor: Davros? I'll touch upon the Doctor's torture in a bit, because I want to highlight Terry Malloy's performance as Davros. Appearing as Davros for the last time in the main range until 2012's The Curse of Davros, Malloy does what he does best and makes Davros a figure to be respected, feared, and pitied. Slowly going insane after being forced to become the Dalek Emperor by his new breed of Daleks, Davros seeks the Doctor's help in transferring his consciousness to a new clone body (one that might or might not look like Davros, as he is old enough that he no longer knows...or cares) so he can be free of the Daleks and travel among the stars. It's standard Davros; a brilliant man who constantly tries to break away from the Daleks, only to find himself creating a new and “better” breed of them, either by choice or by force. Malloy both begs for the Doctor's assistance and gloats about how he has messed with the Doctor's mind on a level no one else ever has, in the very end pleading for the Doctor to kill him as the Daleks force him to truly become the Dalek Emperor. Malloy is fantastic as Davros, simply fantastic, and easily the high point of Terror Firma. And, of course, Nicholas Briggs is absolutely and metallically evil as the voice of the Daleks. In Master, Lidster “revealed” that when they were childhood friends on Gallifrey, the Doctor killed a bully and pleaded with Death herself to make the Master pay for it instead. In The Rapture, Ace finds out that she has a younger brother. Both of these concepts are NEVER mentioned again anywhere in Big Finish continuity. Ace never contacts her biological brother again, instead forming a bond with new companion Hex, and the deal the Doctor made with death is never brought up again. Lidster's works within the audio continuity seem intent on making a huge splash by changing the game, adding a new wrinkle to the Doctor's history, or affecting the life of his companions on a huge scale. While there have been huge slam bang events in the audio line (Spare Parts and Neverland) come to mind, those events feel “earned.” Lidster's work feels more like fan fiction than an attempt to simply tell a story featuring the Doctor and his friends. The entire landscape is supposedly changed...but nothing ever happens going forward in the future. In Terror Firma, it turns out that before the Doctor met Charley during the events of Storm Warning, the Doctor had a pair of companions, a brother and sister duo named Samson and Gemma Griffin. The third episode has brief snippets of their “adventures,” as well as several other moments and mentions spread out through the story, and the chemistry between McGann and the two actors (Lee Ingleby and Lizzie Hopley) is apparent. I could buy them as companions to the Doctor for the purposes of this story. But, it turns out that the pair stumble upon Davros while exploring a derelict timeship in the Vortex. Davros captures them and turns them against the Doctor, and after Samson and Gemma lead Davros inside the TARDIS, Samson knocks out the Doctor... ...and Davros uses Samson to reprogram the TARDIS, wiping any trace of the brother and sister from the ship's memory banks, planting a tracking device that allows Davros to keep tabs on the TARDIS and the Doctor, before performing surgery on the Time Lord's brain to remove any memories of his companions, and then sending him on his merry way across time and space. Ok, on one hand, Davros indulging in an overly complicated plan to gain revenge against the Doctor instead of killing the Time Lord when he has the chance makes perfect sense. And that's where it ends. The idea of the Doctor having companions that he himself doesn't know about is an intriguing one.. (Let me pause here for a moment...SCREW YOU RUSSELL T DAVIES FOR WHAT YOU DID TO DONNA NOBLE, YOU WELSH HACK! By the way, love Cucumber/Banana) ...but the fact that Gemma and Samson were former companions has NO IMPACT on the events of Terror Firma. The pair could have simply been survivors of the Dalek invasion of Earth and nothing would have change in terms of story. But Lidster HAS to insert that plot twist. Lidster screws with the Doctor's mind, erases memories of some near and dear friends of the Doctor's, but the Doctor has what's best described as a “intense shrug of the shoulders” at the news. Maybe the Doctor's just broken after coming home to a destroyed Earth, but the fact that there are these new “old” companions are at the Doctor's side means nothing in the long term, OR short term. Samson and Gemma do show up in a few Short Trips fiction anthologies from Big Finish, but that's it. And then there's the fact that Davros tracked the Doctor into the Divergent Universe and knew when and where he'd return to this one...so therefore, there was an open signal between universes, meaning the Doctor or Rassilon could have found the breach and made their way home easier...or Davros could have realized there was universe out there with no Doctor, no Time Lord, and no defenses against the Daleks...or Davros could have realized that, since Samson could reprogram the TARDIS, Davros could have piloted the TARDIS and had access to ALL the Time Lords' secrets, as well as his OWN FREAKING TIME MACHINE...but instead, this all was solely to make the Doctor miserable and upset, a series of events and tragedies that are compounded and compiled upon him. I mentioned earlier that Lidster can't write an ending to save his life. The Rapture had its big climax at the beginning of the fourth episode, leaving 20 minutes of closure. Master completely fell apart in the fourth episode with a complete tonal switch. The ending to Terror Firma is completely rushed. The Doctor breaks away from the resistance and makes a deal with the Daleks. The Daleks rescue C'rizz from becoming the Dalek Emperor. The Doctor convinces the Daleks to take Davros and leave Earth thanks to a virus that Davros created and gave to the Doctor earlier in the story. This all happens in about three minutes of on-screen time and a whole bunch of off-screen time. It's incredibly compressed and is done with little fanfare, emotion, or thought given to the consequences. Yes, the Daleks have left Earth, but almost the entire human race has been turned into Daleks and drat near the whole surface of the Earth is covered by metal plates. But hey, the survivors mention a few groups elsewhere on the planet, and the Doctor takes Charley and C'rizz to Blackpool for some rest and relaxation. I was really looking forward to this story. The Eighth Doctor is “my” Doctor and his return to the main universe should been a huge event...or at least a well-written one. But instead, Joseph Lidster focuses more on “his” companions than the Doctor's return, and the result is a parade of misery that winds and meanders its way along and squanders a golden opportunity to provide a fresh start and a vital imprint for the Eighth Doctor. Synopsis – Terry Malloy shines, but Terror Firma is nothing more than a mix of misery porn and fan fiction that ruins the Eighth Doctor's return from the Divergent Universe. 2/5 Next up - Three years after Világ was all but laid waste by the Killorans, the Doctor is back alongside a different companion. And a lot has changed... Colin Baker is the Doctor in...Thicker than Water
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Mar 10, 2015 03:29
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I know I mentioned it in the thread before, but I listened to Davros and then Terror Firma in the span of two days and my neck almost snapped from the quality whiplash I got between the two of them. Davros in Terror Firma is just absolute poo poo. Nothing besides the ridiculous plan is on character for him at all, and all of the rest of the dumb plot just piles and piles on top of that. Garbage.
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Mar 10, 2015 05:36
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CobiWann posted:Synopsis – Terry Malloy shines, but Terror Firma is nothing more than a mix of misery porn and fan fiction that ruins the Eighth Doctor's return from the Divergent Universe. 2/5 Yeah, I really struggle to find a positive light with this story - the best I can manage is that for the first time it gives a sense of C'Rizz as an alien, and not just a human with bumps on his head whose skin changes color every so often. The fact they didn't really manage to demonstrate this even once during the Divergent Arc itself just goes to show how mishandled that whole period was. For a story that returns the 8th Doctor to the "real" universe it's a huge mess of continuity references, needless (and pointless) retcons, and relentless misery that would surely have scared off any potential new listeners attracted by the revival and discovering there was more Doctor Who out there for them to access. Given that one of the supposed reasons for ending the divergent arc was to avoid doing just that, the decision to give Lidster the job of penning the first post-Divergent story really comes across as a big misstep. And goddamn does it annoy me how easily the Doctor tracks down the "connection" in the TARDIS (which should NEVER have worked in the Divergent Universe) and shuts it down. That was almost as stupid as the creation of the connection itself, as well as the stupidity of Davros' bizarre and ineffective plan to silently laugh at a completely unaware Doctor going about his life with zero negative consequences to what Davros had done. GonSmithe posted:Garbage. Yep.
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Mar 10, 2015 07:58
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Has anyone tried Lidster's Dark Shadows stories? Does his style fit any better with that world?
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Mar 10, 2015 08:17
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I heard Spider's Shadow, the one part story that comes with The Death Collectors, and I want to like it - it's got an interesting concept, decent acting, and it's a good fit for the Seventh Doctor - but it feels padded for a one part story. The repetition makes sense, given the plot, but the amount of it they cram into a half hour makes the story more of a ten minute one. Ah well. Back to the Eighth Doctor Adventures, and then The Boy That Time Forgot, which I see has already gotten some bad reviews recently in this thread.
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Mar 10, 2015 13:40
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Bicyclops posted:I heard Spider's Shadow, the one part story that comes with The Death Collectors, and I want to like it - it's got an interesting concept, decent acting, and it's a good fit for the Seventh Doctor - but it feels padded for a one part story. The repetition makes sense, given the plot, but the amount of it they cram into a half hour makes the story more of a ten minute one. It's hilariously abominable. Everything about it - the setting, the plot, the macguffin, Adric. It's just total bollocks.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:23
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So I watched part of Delta and the Bannermen during lunch, and...um... ...tell me that the crew didn't put green make up on an ACTUAL BABY?!?
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Mar 10, 2015 20:29
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Jerusalem posted:poisoned by poo poo like sophiealdreddrippingincumbookcover.jpg  I what no don't actually post anything, I don't really want to know
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Mar 10, 2015 20:30
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theatre_of_War_(novel)
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Mar 10, 2015 20:33
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Chokes McGee posted:
Ah that would be Theatre of War, only memorable for that cover. It is obviously cake batter though!
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Mar 10, 2015 20:33
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Fil5000 posted:Has anyone tried Lidster's Dark Shadows stories? Does his style fit any better with that world? You know, I think it does. Maybe it's the gothicness of it all, but it works. He's written 3 as well as being basically the showrunner. London's Burning and Fall of the House of Trask are really great Quentin and Reverend Trask audios (and they're two of my favorite characters so I have a high bar). The Crimson Pearl was a big anniversary production with a huge cast that showed great knowledge of the show, and it would have probably been a great listen...if I hadn't had it on shuffle and thought it was some concept audio.  As showrunner he's been weaving threads of a coherent plot over several years of audiobooks, and now is embarking on what amounts to a very ambitious relaunch of the show as a weekly series with a full cast, trying to emulate the episodic feel of the old show. I've yet to listen though because I'm trying to get a few more audiobooks under my belt so I'm caught up with where the characters are now. My biggest issue with him as showrunner is he has this rule against recasting any of the dead actors because "British soaps never do that" and he thinks it's weird even though: 1) Big Finish has recast several roles in Doctor Who 2) American soaps, including Dark Shadows do this all the freaking time 3) BF DS literally did this with Barnabus, except instead of getting a soundalike they just "put him in a new body" and Lidster kept the actor/character But overall he does a good job, especially considering he's basically a non-American who fairly recently discovered the show. He "gets it" a lot better than lifelong fans Johnny Depp and Tim Burton did, that's for sure.
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Mar 11, 2015 01:18
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So does this actually have any kind of justification in the story, like does she catch the finger-goop oozing disease from some planet or something?
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Mar 11, 2015 06:01
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I said not to post it I said not to 
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Mar 11, 2015 06:02
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CobiWann posted:So I watched part of Delta and the Bannermen during lunch, and...um... Yup. They painted the baby green  .
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Mar 11, 2015 07:16
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Fil5000 posted:And yet that's still better than Nekromanteia. I'm doing a listen through in order and I just got this this one. 
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Mar 11, 2015 08:00
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Every time somebody posts anything about the books it reminds me that when and if I finish listening to the audios, I am definitely not reading them.
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Mar 11, 2015 15:39
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I do credit the authors with sometimes going in fairly radical directions for TV tie-in literature, and the BBC for basically letting them do whatever until the show finally came back, but it's a very mixed bag. There's a lot of stuff where I appreciate the effort but don't quite enjoy the results (Adventuress of Henrietta Street I'm looking at you.)
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Mar 11, 2015 17:47
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Yeah, there's a lot of awful stuff, but there's plenty to recommend as well, both in the Virgin and the BBC Books lines. It's just that the awful stuff is often so obviously awful people tend to latch onto that and forget the things that aren't Ace in leather unitards and Dodo getting space syphilis. People probably wouldn't be that eager to give Big Finish a try, either, if all we ever talked about was Minuet in Hell and Nekromanteia.Maxwell Lord posted:There's a lot of stuff where I appreciate the effort but don't quite enjoy the results (Adventuress of Henrietta Street I'm looking at you.) I know what you mean, there's so much in Adventuress that I wanted to like but I couldn't help losing interest halfway through. It's a shame especially when you compare it to Alien Bodies, which is still a gold standard in tie-in books for nerds in how it managed to play with the mythology of the show without becoming impenetrable and still being really fun to read.
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Mar 11, 2015 18:06
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I very cautiously want to dip my toe into the post-revival books, especially becaused I enjoyed Engines of War and I want to support the non-television side of things any way that I can.
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Mar 11, 2015 18:35
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I finally own Engines of War and it's going to be my book to read on my plane ride later today. I'm excited. Plus I get to practice my top notch John Hurt impression reading some of the lines.
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Mar 11, 2015 18:47
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The_Doctor posted:I finally own Engines of War and it's going to be my book to read on my plane ride later today. I'm excited. Plus I get to practice my top notch John Hurt impression reading some of the lines. Hope you're not on the same flight as me
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Mar 11, 2015 18:52
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The_Doctor posted:Plus I get to practice my top notch John Hurt impression reading some of the lines. Oh for God's sake.
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Mar 11, 2015 20:45
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CobiWann posted:I very cautiously want to dip my toe into the post-revival books, especially becaused I enjoyed Engines of War and I want to support the non-television side of things any way that I can. I quite liked Engines of War. I didn't think they could pull off a War Doctor novel, and I was pleasantly surprised at the combination of "Oh, yes, from that episode!" and "Well, this just keep on moving at a cracking pace, doesn't it?" Anything written by Lance Parkin, Paul Magrs, Simon Butcher-Jones, Mags L. Halliday, or Paul Cornell will be a safe bet. Lawrence Miles is pretty good too.
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Mar 11, 2015 21:18
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 To my great surprise and pleasure, I didn't mind The Gathering at all. Don't get me wrong, it's not a very good story, at best I would call it "okay", but lowered expectations going in (as well as foreknowledge of the big "shock") meant I ended up being surprised by listening to a relatively listenable story. As I noted in the past, I tend not to pay attention to who the writer for a Big Finish story is, which helps to avoid preconceived notions of whether I am going to enjoy a story or not, but the reverse seemed to work out here as my knowledge it was a Joseph Lidster story had me cringing in anticipation of whatever stupid retcon or bit of misery porn would be coming up, and when that didn't really happen (outside of the "shock reveal" I already knew about) it left me feeling more pleasantly inclined to the rest of the story. It's also helped out by the fact that the ending is remarkably upbeat, especially for a Lidster story, as well as my own favorable bias towards anything involving Janet Fielding - one of my favorite companions ever, her Tegan feels just right to me and her interactions with the Doctor when they reunite had me grinning like an idiot. Her reaction to the concept that maybe she was once in love with the Doctor is utter perfection, a character moment that fits her perfectly, and the Doctor's own reaction to a rare moment where she lets her guard down and says something adorably uncynical is similarly well done. I can excuse a lot based on the strength of actor chemistry and enjoyable banter, and on the strength of Davison and Fielding's I ended up being willing to overlook the admittedly poorly constructed stop-start narrative, a framework that thought it was far cleverer than it actually was, shallow and forgettable (and cruelly treated) side-characters, poorly defined motivations for the antagonists, frustrating callbacks to some of Big Finish's less stellar original creations (The Forge.... ugghhhh), and yes even the eye-rolling "life sure is grim and mature, eh?" nonsense that was the reveal of Tegan's inoperable brain tumor and the claim it was caused by her travels with the Doctor - there's your lovely and ultimately meaningless Lidster retcon, one that thankfully RTD seemed to completely ignore (along with this story, it seems) when he namedropped Tegan and her life's work in The Sarah Jane Adventures. Tied in closely with The Reaping, this story begins with the 5th Doctor going solo (more on that below) and arriving unexpectedly at The Gogglebox early in its history, having expected to arrive at the Ice Caves of Shabadabadon. In The Reaping the Sixth Doctor was trying to take Peri to the latter and ended up in the former, and the "important" book he tried to locate ends up being the simple tourist brochure that the 5th Doctor accidentally leaves behind in this story. The Doctor is greeted by Alan Fitzgerald, an enthusiastic history student working at The Gogglebox (a repository of all Earth's media files throughout history) whose clones will be far less enthusiastic after a couple of millennia of working there. Like Clive in Rose, Alan has picked up on the Doctor's presence throughout time and become a bit of a fan, essentially a big ol' Doctor Who nerd obsessed with continuity, like one of those LINDA people (Love and Monsters aired a few months before this story, which I assume was written before it aired). As he peppers the rather put-upon Doctor with questions, he reveals that he has seen a "pattern" emerging through history that he assumes has something to do with the Doctor. The Doctor, intrigued, decides to investigate, and heads to Baltimore in 1984 where he quickly learns that a later incarnation (the Sixth) is already running around, so he heads to the next point in the pattern - Brisbane in 2006. The Gathering takes full advantage of time travel to construct a non-linear story both in terms of story and structure - much of the first episode repeats the same basic period of time from multiple different perspectives, filling in the blanks to create a whole picture for the listener. It's trying to be a bit clever about the whole thing and it doesn't really work (it comes across more aggravating than revealing) but full marks for the effort at least. While it doesn't require having listened to The Reaping before this, it does make many references to that story, lifting whole chunks of audio out of it at times, and two of the characters (well, 1.5) come from that story, which was released before this one but features a later Doctor, meaning the listener is familiar with their history while THIS Doctor remains completely unaware. It's difficult to play around with linear storytelling like this and pull it off, later iterations of the same character should be aware of things to come that the listener hasn't heard yet, but that runs the risk of removing any sense of danger as the central character is already well aware of everything going on. In an attempt to get around this, the 5th Doctor makes a point of trying to learn as little as he can about future events while also leaving enough clues around to trigger the memory of his later self (which fails, presumably because the regeneration into the Sixth Doctor was so traumatic) - it is an attempt to explain why the 6th Doctor doesn't recognize the name of a person he already met in pretty drat memorable circumstances, and while it doesn't quite work the effort at least is made - better that the storytelling try and fail at something new than to succeed in just pumping out unimaginative but "safe" material.... so long as you don't go overboard and start retconning in useless misery porn. As a fun aside, the events of these two stories actually lead in to a story released a couple of years previous - The Harvest (get it, The Reaping, The Gathering, The Harvest?). In that story, the 7th Doctor is on top of everything, clearly having none of the memory problems that the 6th Doctor had, or being behind the 8-ball like the 5th Doctor. We get an origin for "System" in The Gathering which explains why the Doctor is so damned competent at gaining access and control to it in The Harvest. This easy competence is even referenced here, in a grumpy comment made by Alan Fitzgerald when the 5th Doctor isn't able to answer his questions. Paraphrased, it's something like,"I wish you were your 7th incarnation... he knows everything." The basic story unfolds as Kathy Chambers attempts to cure her brother Nate's paralysis using half of the "egg" from The Reaping, having worked with an old associate (James) to create a "System" from the advanced alien technology that she hopes will be able to cure all ailments. Just like in Spare Parts, the notion is admirable and even noble - the end of pain, the end of cripplings and paralysis and sickness. And just like in that story, it then escalates into the end of death, and you can already see the path they're on leading to the eventual creation of the Cybermen - the road to hell paved with good intentions. Kathy's plan involves the old idea of "you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet" - she and James need a human mind to interact with System to complete it, and the guinea pig patient they intend to test the completed model out on is Tegan Jovanka. By complete coincidence, she is a patient of Kathy's, and if System can cure her inoperable tumor then Kathy will feel safe to use it on Nate to cure his paralysis. Kathy is a mess, her desire to "fix" her brother causing her to do horrible things in the name of a greater good. James is a sociopath, seemingly more interested in causing chaos and utterly callous about the lives of others in his quest to complete HIS System, and has no problem threatening Kathy with his knowledge of her complicity in the still unbelievably lovely ending of The Reaping. Both characters are frustrating in how badly written they are, particularly James who comes across in much the same vein as the terribly written Nimrod from Project: Twilight (and others I haven't listened to). They are startlingly incompetent, but then so is every other character, and the contrived situations they find themselves in are just ridiculous, particularly the long-winded and utterly unnecessary sequence between James and a side-character called Jodi which seemingly exists for Lidster to get in his prerequisite bit of misery. Attempts are made to give Jodi depth that just come across as contradictory, and the out of nowhere bit where she calls up a partner/friend/family member and talks about a kid smacks of the same kind of forced pathos as Mrs Van Gysegham gets in The Reaping. She and Eve (Kathy's receptionist) are both badly mistreated in this sense, there purely to raise the stakes by showing just how serious and EVIL the bad guys are in the callous way they are treated and disposed of, but so lacking in any depth as characters that their ultimate fates feel empty. But where the story works for me and overcomes all these flaws lie in the interactions between the Doctor/Peter Davison and Tegan/Janet Fielding. Returning to the role for the first time since her guest spot in Jim'll Fix It (;ohdear:) in 1985, Fielding slots so easily back into the character and her chemistry with Davison it feels like she never left.... even though the story is ALL about how she did leave. The Doctor's investigation of the mysterious pattern eventually sees him end up in a bar where he adds the ! in SURPRISE! when an unknowing Tegan is thrown a surprise party by her workmates. It's Tegan's birthday and yet the only people there are those she knows from work (including a very sour ex-boyfriend) as well as her doctor, Kathy Chambers.... and THE Doctor. He is rather distressed to learn that since she left him all those years ago, her life has taken a turn for the utterly mundane. She runs a business that supplies animal feed, she works, eats, sleeps and... that's it. No travel, no husband or boyfriend, just a seemingly bitter middle-aged woman living a joyless and uninspiring life.... oh yeah, and she has inoperable brain cancer. At this point you'd be forgiven for throwing off your headphones and shaking your fist in Lidster's general direction, but the weird thing about it all is that Fielding makes it work - she bites into the role with relish and gives it her all, and the interplay between her and the Doctor is great to listen to. He's disappointed and upset with with things have gone for her, she's pissed off at him for presuming to just walk back into her life and judge her, and more importantly than that she is concerned for the safety of her colleagues and "friends" because she knows that where the Doctor is, danger isn't far behind. She tears him a new one for looking down his nose at her life, and refuses his offers to try and "fix" her condition as patronizing and intrusive. If things had stayed this hostile, the story would have gotten trying, but when things escalate as they always must, Tegan demonstrates again and again the strength of her character. Usually in a story like this you expect the character to soften and see the "error" of their ways, to admit that they miss the kind of life the Doctor gave them, to embrace a return to it or to be inspired to change the way they live, tacitly admitting that they weren't really happy with how things were. That doesn't happen here, Tegan finds herself fitting easily back into the life of action she once knew, but she remains as stubborn as ever even when it is revealed that the tumor is probably alien and nature and caused by her travels in the TARDIS (thanks Lidster  ). More importantly, she makes it clear to the Doctor that the life she chose to live IS the life she wanted, and that while maybe he can't understand it, she actually IS happy. She likes the familiarity, the low stakes, the sense of regularity - she has a purpose, she does it well, and she doesn't have to balance death and destruction against the opportunity to see amazing sights and experiences. The only admission to a fault in her chosen life she makes is the fact that she broke up with her boyfriend and didn't tell him about the tumor because she didn't want him to see her as a victim, to stop seeing HER and start seeing only the sickness, to consider her with pity or sorrow. When the two are literally locked in a small room together and unable to avoid communicating, they talk like adults and resolve things, and by the end of the story they are back together. Tegan didn't NEED a man in her life to make her happy, but she is happy with this man in her life, and she is satisfied with that. She runs her own business, she has a job she likes and is good at, she DOES have friends even if she can be stand-offish and trying to put up with, she is in love with a man who is in love with her, she has a good life and she means to enjoy it for as long as she can. In that sense, her tumor isn't a death sentence, because she always knew she wouldn't live forever, and especially after surviving life with the Doctor, her intention is to simply enjoy whatever life she has left. In that sense, she is inspirational, and the moment that really stands out to me is when she rejects both Kathy's demand to cure her tumor and the Doctor's pleading insistence to cure it - she takes control of her own life. She doesn't give up hope, telling the Doctor that she hopes some human doctor with human technology is able to find a cure for her, but she is insistent that no matter what happens she has made the choice that nothing alien will get into her head again. She will live and die on her own terms, and good on her for that.The Gathering isn't a particularly well constructed story, and its supporting characters range from bland to frustrating. But it makes an admirable effort to play around with non-linear storytelling, and at its heart it is able to rely almost solely on the wonderful chemistry between Davison and Fielding to carry the whole thing. Reeking in parts of Lidster's love of retcons and misery-porn, that isn't enough to hold back the rather inspirational and admirable message that Tegan's character ends up having in spite of the early suggestions she is living a bitter and miserable life.... and it's really worth a listen if only for her incredulous laughter when the Doctor stammers out that her boyfriend thinks she might have been in love with him, and the Doctor's own laughter when she struggles to admit that he brought "magic" into her life because it is so tough for the stubborn and loudmouthed Tegan to admit. The two manage to lift the story above its limitations, and as a result I have to say this is (and this isn't exactly high praise) the best Joseph Lidster story I've heard. But why was the Doctor without a companion in this story?  The Veiled Leopard is a 2-part Doctorless story that is available for free from Big Finish's Soundcloud page. Set in Monte Carlo in 1966, it recounts the story of Peri and Erimem attending a party at a casino where they have been tasked by the 5th Doctor to prevent the theft of the Veiled Leopard diamond.... unfortunately also at the party is Ace and Hex, who have been tasked by the 7th Doctor to STEAL the Veiled Leopard diamond! Played purely for comedy (with an obvious nod to the Pink Panther film series), this is a fun little story that seems to exist merely to have a good time. This proves to be a good palette cleanser after the 1/2 Lidster punch of The Reaping/The Gathering (though it was released months earlier than both) and I advise listening to it after those stories. In the first half, Peri and Erimem attend the party with a mission in mind, but also to thrill to the fun of dressing up and going to a party!  As should come as no surprise, plenty of jokes are made about Peri's breasts (even in audio format she can't escape these!) but the real fun is in the catty way the two happily gossip and conjecture over the various people in attendance. Though they show plenty of competence when it comes to assessing and discarding potential suspects, it was really nice to hear them return to that old dynamic of giggling best friends/sisters just having a good time together. Perhaps my favorite part though is when they spot Ace (a stranger to them) and giggle with delight over how ill-suited her dress is, especially when her partner makes a quick exit and they have a good laugh because it is so CLEAR to them that she is desperately in love with him and he wants nothing to do with her. That's especially hilarious since in part 2 it is made clear that her partner (Hex) is desperately in love with her (and to think, in his first story I thought he was gay) while she keeps making it clear she isn't interested, and that while the running joke is,"That outfit really doesn't suit her," Hex is the one who with genuine admiration tells her,"That outfit really suits you!" Belying their seemingly shallow (if fun) cattiness, Peri and Erimem quickly figure out who the mysterious thief Janus is and quickly act to intercept and prevent them from stealing the diamond, then make a quick escape when it sounds like security is coming after them all. That's when episode 2 kicks in, as we see things from Ace and Hex's perspective. They have far more information than was given to Peri and Erimem (the latter having been an "owner" of the diamond herself thousands of years earlier), including knowledge of the former duo's presence and what they're up to. It seems the 5th and 7th Doctor had a bit of an argument over this operation (the 7th going through the motions surely, having been convinced of what he was doing as the 5th, then coming to his senses by the time he was the 7th) - the diamond is actually a kind of blueprint for the recreation of a long dead race, unable to travel through time so requiring the Doctor to leave it to step from hand to hand across the ages till he had a perfect place to take it and reseed the civilization. The theft of the diamond now would remove it from historical records and prevent the Doctor from being able to track it down, so he is trying to prevent it's theft.... but the 7th Doctor has a plan to steal it AND leave the historical records intact, so he has to chessmaster the pieces on the board so that the 5th Doctor's plan succeeds without interfering with his own. So Ace and Hex wait for Peri and Erimem to prevent the theft, then steal the diamond themselves... but also make sure that Janus' well-intentioned thievery can still take place, and that a copycat burglar will be caught and bring down the rather scummy millionaire trying to take advantage of it all. The characters are necessarily broad and flat, playing as the story does on stereotypes - the bored aristocrat hiding a heart of gold, the self-made man with a social conscience, the self-made man who callously exploits others, the bored hedonists, the French "waiter" etc. There is no great degree of complication to anybody, but that all works, and leads to a predictable if satisfying conclusion without trying to get clever with any twists or turns - in the end, Ace, Hex and Janus celebrate their victory, and they even make a point of grabbing hold of a celebrating Peri and Erimem (whose own mission was a success) to actually bring them up to speed on everything as well.... which leads one to ponder, did the 7th Doctor come up with this overcomplicated plan himself, or just end up doing what Peri and Erimem told him happened/would happen. In any case, The Veiled Leopard is a fun palate cleanser that give four companions a chance to enjoy a party and pull off a caper without relying on the Doctor to come pull their fat out of the fire. It's simple, straightforward, predictable... and very satisfying to listen to.
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Mar 12, 2015 00:10
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Cerv posted:Hope you're not on the same flight as me Houston to London buddy? 
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Mar 12, 2015 00:38
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Apparently, Fielding asked for the cancer storyline because she meant for this to be Tegan's only Big Finish appearance without any possible way for Tegan to come back... Whoops. She ended having so much fun she jumped at the chance to play Tegan again in 2010. And 2012. And 2014. And...
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Mar 12, 2015 03:56
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 19:57 |
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She also has cancer in real life now  I also think it was nice that the character got a chance to say a proper goodbye to the Doctor. While her television exit will forever be one of my favorites, it was very nice to see her (Tegan, not Fielding) get to say a proper, heartfelt goodbye to the Doctor where she was able to tell him how she felt, how much she appreciated her time with him, but more importantly how she has no regrets about both the travels with him and ENDING the travels with him. As a goodbye for the character it worked really well, and since as far as I know her future appearances in Big Finish are all set during her travels with the 5th Doctor, it remains a rather sweet send-off for the character (despite everything going on around it) in much the same way that Thicker Than Water was for Evelyn.
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Mar 12, 2015 04:26
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