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A properly adapted Gunnm anime would be loving fantastic.... and also practically unprecedented because of the combination of its length and level of violence. Not to mention it appears to still be several years from ending. I'd love a 96 episode adaptation that fully covers things (actually I wouldn't complained if they trimmed the Z.O.T.T. fights a bit) with good production values, but I cannot think of a single anime that is that long, cerebral, and violent. And they can only tone down the violence so much here without compromising the story. You couldn't readily put it on Adult Swim or wherever anime shows up on U.S. television these days. The closest parallel I can think of is Monster, which comes to mind as something that was dark (although not nearly to the level of Gunnm), very artistically ambitious, had decent production values (nothing mindblowing though) and was 74 episodes long and well-made (I also thought it was also kind of boring but that's probably because of the source material). Really, the only possibility of a good adaptation comes from the fact that James Cameron at one point had an interest in this property and maybe he'd be willing to throw some money at it if he decided to read Last Order some time, and delegated the head producer role to someone who knows anime. I'm not holding my breath =/ Also, I just caught up after having stopped right at the start of Alita Quest, and now I realize I've read like two years worth of output in just two days. D'oh! Fabulous manga though, wish more people were reading it.
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Feb 8, 2015 09:11
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closeted republican posted:Alita is weird because it had all of the elements to be a big franchise (cute but deadly main character, lots of action and violence, interesting world), but it never managed to get beyond being a cult classic. I still think it has the potential to be a decent-sized franchise in the West because sci-fi and darkness are still really big in the West. At this point, I think the biggest hurdles would be getting it's name out and overcoming the current prejudice against anime and manga. Hell, if it wasn't for the extreme gore in BAA and LO, you could probably market it to the Tumblr crowd because of how surprisingly progressive it is. I suspect the main reason for this is that BAA just isn't very popular. It's more of a "long-running workhorse" rather than a "runaway phenomenon" the way certain series, like Attack On Titan are. My guess is that over there in Japan, it's got a dedicated but small fanbase, that has kept it going steady for the past 20 years, and that it doesn't have a great deal of mass appeal among the anime-watching populace that would merit it getting an adaptation. quote:I still think an Alita game that plays like Metal Gear Revengeance but with Deus Ex's reactive world and openness would be very good if they got the right devs for it. Have the first half be BAA, the second half LO with the ZOTT replaced by infiltration missions and some of the ZOTT participants as bosses (like Rakan is an assassin hired by Mbadi to kill you and Tunguska attacks because Alita messed with the Jovians somehow), and make the last bits a condensed version of what'll happen in Mars Chronicle. You could add extra but optional playable characters like Fizziroy body Sechs, Figure, and Caerula to spice things up if the budget permitted. Even a gimmick co-op mode where one player plays as Elf and the other as Zwolf would be cool. There was a video game adaptation made, back in the 90s! It was titled GUNNM: Martian Memory. I've never played it, but I hear it was okay? Huh, interesting though: quote:Kishiro eventually decided to take the story that he had developed for Gunnm: Martian Memory and expand it further, using it as the basis for the manga Battle Angel Alita: Last Order, which is a continuation of Battle Angel Alita.
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Feb 8, 2015 16:41
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DrSunshine posted:I suspect the main reason for this is that BAA just isn't very popular. It's more of a "long-running workhorse" rather than a "runaway phenomenon" the way certain series, like Attack On Titan are. My guess is that over there in Japan, it's got a dedicated but small fanbase, that has kept it going steady for the past 20 years, and that it doesn't have a great deal of mass appeal among the anime-watching populace that would merit it getting an adaptation. You can find the important parts of the script translated here. Martian Memory shares some story beats with LO, like a tournament and some of the characters. It has quite a few differences though, like a lack of a Mbadi-like figure, Deckmen are used on Tiphares and Ketheres, there's only one Leviathan ship with the hope that more will be made one day, most people in Tiphares commit suicide after learning the secret of Tiphares instead of killbots massacring almost everyone and a civil war happening among the survivors, and Saturn is big enough to have an embassy. In general, it's a bit more faithful to the original BAA ending than LO is, as it has things like Yoko's backstory from BAA volume 9 expanded on instead the all-new one in LO, the main computer using the old woman avatar like it did in BAA's ending instead of Arthur, and Lou getting married to Kaos. I think LO is much better than Martian Memory as a continuation of the story, overall.
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Feb 9, 2015 23:24
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Thanks to closeted republican for the fantastic analysis of the BAA series. I just quickly skimmed over the series (and don't have access to BAA) so a lot of the nuances passed me by. A fun fact about Zekka and his Dragon Slaying Bone Crusher move that I learned while reading Enha Wiki, a Korean wiki of sorts. Zekka and Tunpo's master gave each of them a goal, and Zekka's was to develop 屠龍之技 (this is Korean hanja, might be different from Japanese kanji and probably different in Chinese cause Chinese has simplified and traditional versions), a way to kill a dragon. 屠龍之技 (or the Chinese equivalent) is apparently a Chinese idiom for something that's "high end but useless". Basically, in a story that Zhuangzhi (Zhuang Zhou) tells, a man spent a thousand pieces of gold and 3 years to learn how to kill and cook a dragon, but never had a chance to use it. Given that Zekka's attack is the Dragon Slaying (屠龍) Bone Crusher, it seems likely that the author was referring to this idiom when making Zekka's attack. Just like the idiom implies, Zekka's move is for the most part useless because there is literally no one (save Tunpo) who can handle the attack. In fact, everyone dies at the start of his attack (PHASE 65) so nobody has ever lived to take the final antimatter punch. And given Zekka's pride, he's not gonna just use it against a random nobody. It has to be someone he deems worth, so it has to be Tunpo, but Tunpo himself has declared his intention to never fight against Zekka again. So Zekka has the strongest and most useless attack in the universe. On a side note, Zekka's refusal to use his attack against Sechs reminds me of another saying. 牛刀割鷄, or killing a chicken with a cow-killing knife. I suppose the easiest way to explain it is the word overkill. There's a massive difference in the sizes of a chicken and a cow, so using a blade meant to kill a cow to kill a chicken is using something that's way bigger / important than what's actually needed. A Korean martial arts novel series I used to read extended the metaphor. quote:소 잡는 데는 소 잡는 칼이, 닭 잡는 데는 닭 잡는 칼이, 용 잡는 데는 용린(龍鱗) 도 뚫을 만한 신검(神劍)이 필요한 법. 반대로 닭 잡는 데 용 사냥용 신검을 쓸 필요는 없는 것이다. 그건 지독한 낭비일 뿐이기에. Zekka refusing to use his attack against Sechs because he doesn't consider him a "dragon" (PHASE 97) just brought the above to mind, even if the dragon part of the quote is just something the author of the novel added. Anyways I hope this was interesting and not something that everyone already knew. Here are some links that I found on the fly that explain the concept. http://tao-meditation.blogspot.kr/2015/02/wisdom-of-zhuangzi-slaying-dragon.html https://caffeinbar.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/zhuangzi-wisdom-3-dragon-slayer-vs-brain-drains/ http://www.chinese-names.net/phrase/%E5%B1%A0%E9%BE%99%E4%B9%8B%E6%8A%80 http://linguaholic.com/chinese-idioms-2510435821/23648408452004325216-(tulongzh299-ji)/ This one's for the other saying about the cow and the chicken. http://thedailyyoji.blogspot.kr/2009/01/blog-post_05.html http://edu.ocac.gov.tw/culture/chinese/CULTUREENGLISH/Language/Elanguage0302_36.htm
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Feb 10, 2015 05:24
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Thanks to closeted republican for the fantastic analysis of the BAA series. I just quickly skimmed over the series (and don't have access to BAA) so a lot of the nuances passed me by. Wow! This is pretty neat and insightful -- I'd have had no idea about this idiomatic meaning, and it just brings another neat level of understanding into the cultural references that Kishiro makes. Awesome! Additionally -- you should try to find the original series somehow. I posted some Amazon links earlier, when closeted republican was trying to get his hands on it, you could try those, to get your hands on the original series for pretty good value. EDIT: I've just been poring over the recent chapters of CoMW, and I have to sort of wonder at Kishiro's work schedule nowadays. The linework and general detailing is a whole lot lighter, even than in Last Order, and if you look at it quite closely, the lines don't have the same kind of variation that you'd expect to see with a physically drawn image. I wonder if he's completely moved to digital media, because the lines almost look like they were drawn on a tablet rather than with a pen. Another thing to note is the "Next issue on sale" date lines at the end of the scanlated chapters. It seems that he's producing somewhere between 14-16 pages every two weeks. So it might be that Kishiro's drawing the comic at a different pace than he used to, releasing biweekly rather than monthly. DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Feb 10, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 06:54
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Interesting! So basically, Zekka bused his rear end for nothing. He's basically a giant dead end of a person; he wants to cause destruction and his ultimate attack can never be used.
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Feb 12, 2015 02:45
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DrSunshine posted:Additionally -- you should try to find the original series somehow. I posted some Amazon links earlier, when closeted republican was trying to get his hands on it, you could try those, to get your hands on the original series for pretty good value. The problem is that I live in Korea, so getting English texts is sorta pricey. I might be able to get them in Korean (and at cheaper prices, too) from Kyobo or whatever, but I'm far more comfortable reading in English than in Korean, and I fear that I'd miss a lot of the details in BAA's technojargon and walls of texts. A relative is gonna be coming in a few months from the Americas to visit, but I don't think asking her to buy and pack all that would be a good idea. I'll figure something out I guess.
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Feb 12, 2015 03:08
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:The problem is that I live in Korea, so getting English texts is sorta pricey. I might be able to get them in Korean (and at cheaper prices, too) from Kyobo or whatever, but I'm far more comfortable reading in English than in Korean, and I fear that I'd miss a lot of the details in BAA's technojargon and walls of texts. Just read it on Kissmanga. You're an edge case where there's no feasible way to get the english version books physically(international shipping for books is absolutely insane, you'd likely be paying triple the price). If you can get ahold of them legally, do so, but don't worry about it too much.
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Feb 12, 2015 03:54
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Part two of chapter 4 is out: http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Gunnm-Kasei-Senki/Ch-004-002--log-004--Second-Half----The-Assailants?id=221221 Ninon's death is def. the darkest out of all the orphan girls. Holy poo poo. closeted republican fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 11:20
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Hahahaha, holy poo poo.
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Feb 17, 2015 14:13
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Its oddly refreshing seeing media that doesnt gently caress around or take forever to do or show something. Poor Ninon.
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Feb 17, 2015 14:31
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closeted republican posted:Part two of chapter 4 is out: Jesus Christ. That is hosed up as all hell, once it dawns on you that it's a dream sequence. Ah man. I'm starting to get the feeling that CoMW isn't going to be quite the happy-go-lucky wacky tournament that LO was...
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Feb 17, 2015 16:18
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The brief glimpses of Yoko's childhood we got from LO (the one involving a minefield comes to mind) have always lead me to believe it was pretty dark and brutal. The direction CoMW has been going in so far supports that.
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Feb 17, 2015 17:09
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Yoko's a really weird kid.
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Feb 17, 2015 17:29
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SHAOLIN FUCKFIEND posted:Yoko's a really weird kid. She's a bit of a space cadet! But, well, I think that part of that has to do with her being, like, a two year old or something. She's still really adorably plucky, though! So I wonder where the next chapter will bring us? I can only imagine that they'll be wandering around, trying to survive in Mars's postapocalyptic desert wasteland, maybe with Erica leading the way, on a quest to track down Grunthal, since Grunthal were the ones that rescued them from the minefield back then. It seems like that's their only lead to go on. Kind of looking forward to seeing them try to track down a lead by going into a bar that they are far too underage for, with Yoko sitting on Erica's shoulders, wearing a trenchcoat and a hat. 
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Feb 18, 2015 06:52
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Suddenly, Yoko's "NOBODY LOVES ME!" breakdown in volume 10 of LO makes a bit more sense when you see that everyone she met before being a Kunstler dropped like flies and that Erika was her Only Friend.
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Feb 18, 2015 09:30
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The bounty hunters who attacked the other orphanage are still looking for Yoko, and since they haven't murdered any children yet I'm betting they end up joining proto-Team-Space-Angel at some point.
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Feb 18, 2015 09:35
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They'll join proto-Space Angels...in bodybags. 
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Feb 18, 2015 11:28
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If you like the grittiness and brutality of BAA, but also like that it's not always super serious, you'll probably like Dorohedoro. I can't think of a more violent and graphic series(though I've not read Berserk, even the gory images from that I've seen don't really compare to the exploding-with-mushrooms, still-alive-dismembered-people of Dorohedoro) and yet the violence is somehow acceptable with how grim and grotesque the setting is. It's pretty funny when it wants to be and I love almost every single character in the main cast for different reasons. It's nice to see a female brawler who's fuckin' JACKED, too. She's one of the biggest characters in the series, both physically and story-wise. Dorohedorowns. If you check out the first few volumes and like it, you can get the paperbacks on Amazon. It's also just about to finish, as well, with something like half a dozen chapters left to go.
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Feb 18, 2015 11:53
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DrSunshine posted:Kind of looking forward to seeing them try to track down a lead by going into a bar that they are far too underage for, with Yoko sitting on Erica's shoulders, wearing a trenchcoat and a hat. Thats too cute not to happen. Captain Invictus posted:If you like the grittiness and brutality of BAA, but also like that it's not always super serious, you'll probably like Dorohedoro. I can't think of a more violent and graphic series(though I've not read Berserk, even the gory images from that I've seen don't really compare to the exploding-with-mushrooms, still-alive-dismembered-people of Dorohedoro) and yet the violence is somehow acceptable with how grim and grotesque the setting is. It's pretty funny when it wants to be and I love almost every single character in the main cast for different reasons. It's nice to see a female brawler who's fuckin' JACKED, too. She's one of the biggest characters in the series, both physically and story-wise. Seconding this, Noi is amazing and the entire cast play off one another so well.
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Feb 18, 2015 14:00
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Part one of chapter 5 is out: http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Gunnm-Kasei-Senki/Ch-005-001--log-005--FirstHalf----The-Persuers?id=222793 closeted republican fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Mar 3, 2015 03:18
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closeted republican posted:Part one of chapter 5 is out: Points: 1) Man, that cover is kind of spooky-looking.  2) The translation and editing work is pretty sloppy and Babelfishy. It's stilted as hell. Although I guess we can't help but expect that by now from Team Pixie Dust/Crazyankan translations. 3) Wait, I'm kind of confused. I thought that the Papagei Corps was the one who massacred the town. Weren't their banners the ones that Ninon recognized? Why did they save Erica and Yoko when they pretty much brutally slaughtered everyone else? I guess they wanted a propaganda piece, so they left the two alive while killing the rest, and blaming Winde Corps for the massacre? But wouldn't Erica and Yoko realize that the soldiers from Papagei Corps were the true killers, and be able to tell the truth about the coverup?
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Mar 3, 2015 06:53
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DrSunshine posted:Points: I think the idea is that Yoko and Erica are way too young to be considered trustworthy in regards to stuff like IDing who committed a massacre. Nobody's going to beleive a cyborg kid who's literally still in diapers and her slightly-older friend about something as serious as who wiped out an entire town when the news clearly says who did it. Besides, I don't think the Papagei Corp even knows that Erica and Yoko saw them gun down Ninon. Remember, they were hiding in a pipe when Ninon tried to talk the Papagei Corps down ad only popped out to mourn Ninon after the soldiers left.
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Mar 3, 2015 09:22
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Captain Invictus posted:If you like the grittiness and brutality of BAA, but also like that it's not always super serious, you'll probably like Dorohedoro. I can't think of a more violent and graphic series(though I've not read Berserk, even the gory images from that I've seen don't really compare to the exploding-with-mushrooms, still-alive-dismembered-people of Dorohedoro) and yet the violence is somehow acceptable with how grim and grotesque the setting is. It's pretty funny when it wants to be and I love almost every single character in the main cast for different reasons. It's nice to see a female brawler who's fuckin' JACKED, too. She's one of the biggest characters in the series, both physically and story-wise. Thirding this. Dorohedoro is absolutely amazing. I actually like it more than Battle Angel Alita. The setting and characters are just incredibly unique and inspired. Alita has better fight scenes, but I prefer the characters and setting in Dorohedoro. It's also absolutely hilarious. Everyone in En's whole group/company is great. I really can't recommend it enough. It can be kind of confusing when you first start reading it, but you get a feel for the bizarre logic of the world after a while. edit: Even though it's different in many ways from Battle Angel Alita, I think that most people who enjoy BAA would also enjoy Dorohedoro.
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Mar 3, 2015 17:39
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Here's some interesting news I found on Kishiro's blog (Google Translate):quote:This year's spring around, is scheduled to Battle Angel Mars Senki Volume 1 and art book will be released simultaneously in about April or May. http://yukitolog.blogspot.com/2015/01/2015.html I'd love to have an official BAA art book because of how good the art is throughout the series.
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Mar 7, 2015 02:54
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closeted republican posted:Here's some interesting news I found on Kishiro's blog (Google Translate): Oooh, an art book! Yeah, one of the things I think we missed out on as volume readers is that none of the colored pages and covers - save for the volume covers - were included. I'd love to see all the colored pages from the very beginning. That'd be awesome if some of them found their way into the art book.
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Mar 7, 2015 15:00
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DrSunshine posted:Oooh, an art book! Yeah, one of the things I think we missed out on as volume readers is that none of the colored pages and covers - save for the volume covers - were included. I'd love to see all the colored pages from the very beginning. That'd be awesome if some of them found their way into the art book. I atually spent a little bit of time a while ago trying to find the raw scans for the colored pages. The only things I've ever found is a poorly-cropped version of Sechs's full-page panel in volume 1 and a tiny image of Elf and Zwolf looking at Earth from Ketheres in volume 3.
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Mar 10, 2015 02:09
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Part two of Chapter 5 is out: http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Gunnm-Kasei-Senki/Ch-005-002--log-005--Second-Half----The-Pursuers?id=224622 *Erica and Yoko trying Vegemite is adorable. *I was not expecting that ending. How the hell are they going to survive the atmosphere thingy giving out? closeted republican fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Mar 18, 2015 06:42
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closeted republican posted:Part two of Chapter 5 is out: That Winnebago looks like it might be airtight
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Mar 18, 2015 07:15
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closeted republican posted:Part two of Chapter 5 is out: Also: Yoko waving at the little kid in the crowd. Everything about Erica and Yoko is amazingly cute and charming, it's quite surprising for Kishiro. You don't really expect it, given his repertoire. But then again he strikes in the same chapter with the brutal death and disasters and you're reminded that yes, this is the BAA Verse that they're living in and it's harsh and nihilistic. Just watch, old guy is gonna press a button and like wings and rocket boosters are gonna pop out, it's gonna be an awesome space road trip, you'll see. You'll see!!  EDIT: Aww man. I wish they could stay with the nice old doctor guy. I mean look at this page: http://i.imgur.com/i6AWwVN.png D'aww. It's too bad since we know they end up being trained as child soldiers at Grunthal, so he'll probably die at some point. Likely tragically. 
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Mar 18, 2015 14:05
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closeted republican posted:Part two of Chapter 5 is out: I sympathise with them because i had that exact same thought and then discovery as a kid with vegemite
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Mar 18, 2015 15:14
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Anyone know what's going on with Mars Chronicle? Part one of chapter 6 was supposed to be out a while ago, but I haven't heard a peep about it.
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Apr 14, 2015 02:02
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Remember the Kushiro art book that was supposed to be coming out? Amazon.jp has a listing for it now, along with some preview pics. http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%9C%A8%E...words=ars+magna Looks like it'll have the volume covers, the colored pages, and some other neat stuff, like an image of a long-haired Alita.
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Apr 22, 2015 00:04
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But will it include a poster of this?
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Apr 22, 2015 00:34
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NmareBfly posted:But will it include a poster of this? It drat well should or there will be hell to pay.
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Apr 22, 2015 01:02
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closeted republican posted:Remember the Kushiro art book that was supposed to be coming out? Amazon.jp has a listing for it now, along with some preview pics. Ohhhh nice!!! Now this is something I've got to get! I hope it's got some of the color pages* from the manga publication, as all the volumes just have the black and white versions, which kind of sucks for us book readers. It'll be awesome to see Kishiro's clean, slick art in glossy artbook size! Is it possible for people outside Japan to ship things to the USA through Amazon.jp? EDIT: * - ah it looks like it does! Yes!! DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Apr 22, 2015 |
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Apr 22, 2015 01:39
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DrSunshine posted:Ohhhh nice!!! Now this is something I've got to get! I hope it's got some of the color pages* from the manga publication, as all the volumes just have the black and white versions, which kind of sucks for us book readers. It'll be awesome to see Kishiro's clean, slick art in glossy artbook size! Is it possible for people outside Japan to ship things to the USA through Amazon.jp? I'm interested in this just for the colored pages. In particular, I really want to see the colored pages in early LO.
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Apr 22, 2015 03:42
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Look! It's a side-story about Koyomi that I don't think we've seen before. That, or possibly I'm just forgetting it. At any rate, there's some color pages and I really enjoy revisiting the Scrapyard and Koyomi's a fun, plucky character.
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Apr 24, 2015 15:58
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God it's nice to read non-ZOTT Alita again.
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Apr 24, 2015 17:30
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Part one of Chapter 6 is finally out: http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Gunnm-Kasei-Senki/Ch-006-001--log-006--First-Half----The-Canopy-Explosion?id=227916 closeted republican fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Apr 30, 2015 12:57
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