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https://twitter.com/nbajambook/status/1377820067237408770?s=21
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Apr 2, 2021 04:32
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Winty posted:I'm feeling Awesome! Nothing bad will ever happen! Wasn't Castles in the Sky 2002ish? I definitely remember hearing it all the time on the radio ride home from high school and that was post-9/11.
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Apr 2, 2021 05:14
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WWE (aka the WWF) is actually still doing that kind of poo poo ityool 2021 and it is pretty loving sad.
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Apr 2, 2021 16:59
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 Nothing felt better than hitting the degauss button on an old CRT monitor.
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Apr 4, 2021 18:30
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Cartoon Man posted:
It’s true. I can hear the PHWONNNNNNG in my head just thinking about it.
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Apr 4, 2021 18:31
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it sucks rear end that 3d pinball isnt included in windows anymore, it was so good
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Apr 4, 2021 19:17
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Cartoon Man posted:
Ftfy
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Apr 4, 2021 19:44
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I will never ever miss hauling those loving pieces of poo poo monitors ever, Im super happy with my light flatscreens thanks. The worst offender was this large Goldstar tube tv that I just gave away so I wouldnt have to deal with moving it.
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Apr 4, 2021 19:55
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CRTs are coming back because retro gamers are insane
Len has a new favorite as of 23:52 on Apr 4, 2021 |
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Apr 4, 2021 21:37
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Shibawanko posted:it sucks rear end that 3d pinball isnt included in windows anymore, it was so good I’m p. sure you can download it
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Apr 4, 2021 21:43
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Len posted:CRTs are coming back because retro gamers are insanet I watched a whole youtube where they extoll the virtues of one of the last, biggest flat screen crts, the sorny trinitron 21" They ran Control on it and decided it was way better that way and it made me think  I'm the most 90s thing
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Apr 4, 2021 23:19
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Len posted:CRTs are coming back because retro gamers are insanet I always have that story about someone i knew that refused to get an flat panel monitor until like 2014. He was absolutely convinced that CRTs were a huge improvement over them and they were actually detrimental to gaming. He'd insist that if he switched he would be unable to play at the level he's accustomed to. If he was beaten by someone who had a flat panel he would insist they were a hacker or their internet was better, because no way a CRT could put him at a disadvantage. He eventually got one when his CRT conked out and buying a new one was impossible because no one makes them anymore.
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Apr 4, 2021 23:26
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crt's really are better though, not more practical maybe but better for old games definitely
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Apr 4, 2021 23:48
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Len posted:CRTs are coming back because retro gamers are insane
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Apr 4, 2021 23:52
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twistedmentat posted:I always have that story about someone i knew that refused to get an flat panel monitor until like 2014. He was absolutely convinced that CRTs were a huge improvement over them and they were actually detrimental to gaming. He'd insist that if he switched he would be unable to play at the level he's accustomed to. If he was beaten by someone who had a flat panel he would insist they were a hacker or their internet was better, because no way a CRT could put him at a disadvantage. Flat panels also don't know how to deal with the weird resolutions retro games often use. Basically everything pre-Dreamcast usually displayed 240p, which in this case was technically 480i but using only 240 of the fields to create a progressive image. Some games like Silent Hill, Virtua Fighter 2 and Chrono Cross frequently switched between 240p and regular 480i, which was seamless on a CRT but causes a sync drop for a few seconds on an HDTV. Also, connecting a retro console directly into a flat panel often looks like poo poo even if it has the necessary inputs (when's the last time you've seen an S-video connector?) because the TV takes the 320x240 or 640x480 image and has to fill the high-def screen with it. Since built-in upscalers aren't designed with games in mind, the result can be pretty bad especially when they attempt to deinterlace 240p output (it's technically a 480i signal, after all). The quality is less of an issue with component or RGB cables, but composite is going to look like complete poo poo on a modern display whereas it'd at least be presentable on a CRT. Or, to summarize: Len posted:CRTs are coming back because retro gamers are insane DMorbid has a new favorite as of 00:08 on Apr 5, 2021 |
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Apr 5, 2021 00:00
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Shibawanko posted:crt's really are better though, not more practical maybe but better for old games definitely Better how? For some consoles, you need a CRT to show how they'd have looked on one back in the day, since a lot of the programming on those consoles revolved around the mechanics of them. The Atari 2600, for example, didn't have a frame buffer but just a register that could hole one scan line at a time and they had to refresh its contents to draw the next line on the screen. This and the vertical and horizontal retrace intervals let them pull off some clever poo poo that they wouldn't have been able to do otherwise with the limits of the hardware. So, okay, sure, I guess if you want to play the 2600 port of Pacman and see how lovely it looked back in the day with its sprites that flickered because they could only draw a given ghost on every other field, they're better. But in what other sense are they definitely better for old games?
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Apr 5, 2021 00:01
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Phanatic posted:But in what other sense are they definitely better for old games? And old programmers/artists definitely used the limitations in mind when crafting games. See how sprite graphics sometimes fudge things because the CRt display would would up making a better viewing experience than an infinitely sharp pixel accurate display, or how cruft was added to make text appear sharper or more legible on an old screen (FF6's credits text during Celes' magitek armor walk).
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Apr 5, 2021 00:13
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FilthyImp posted:Modern screens have a hard time getting dithered translucency hacks working right (i.e. Sonic waterfalls). Naturally, retro gamers being retro gamers, there have been many arguments over whether the pin-sharp image you get with RGB and a high quality CRT TV (or broadcast monitor) is the "proper" way to experience these games, because these graphics tricks were designed for composite and RF video and therefore it's more authentic to use lovely video cables.
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Apr 5, 2021 00:30
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DMorbid posted:While that guy was obviously a dumbass, flat panels do add a few frames of lag compared to a CRT, more if the flat panel has to deinterlace a 480i image from an old console. It's not usually a big problem and modern games usually work around it well enough, but anything that requires frame-perfect inputs or just precise timing in general (such as old rhythm games) becomes more difficult to play. Even games that don't necessarily require that much precision can feel pretty unresponsive if the display is laggy enough. Yea, that would make sense if he was a retro gamer, but no, he was huge into Battlefield and CoD. I think he just heard about when they were coming out about how they weren't the best for gaming and never updated his knowlage.
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Apr 5, 2021 02:03
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FilthyImp posted:Modern screens have a hard time getting dithered translucency hacks working right (i.e. Sonic waterfalls). Terra's magitek armor walk. I'm playing it these days on my SNES Classic and my LED TV. Never gave it much thought but next time I start from the beginning I'll watch for that. I just turn on the 'scanlines' effect and call it good, which is what I did with my laptop and ZSnes.
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Apr 5, 2021 03:54
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TITTIEKISSER69 posted:Terra's magitek armor walk. I actually noticed it when comparing the music from the SNES Classic to the cart. The text on the cart does a nice fade-in and settles pretty uniformly. The text on the SNES Classic (no filters) had areas where the luminosity is higher on the font, *and* there are sections of the font in that scene where there are accompanying areas of grey/black around the letters to aid in legibility on a CRT. On the LCD, it just looks kind of low-res and artifacty if you look for it. For example, the A's are consistently brighter along the top-to-bottom-right diagonal, with the left diagonal slightly darker. It ends up making the text look slightly like it's raised on the CRT. Kind of made me realize there was a lot of artistry behind even getting text to appear nicely on sprite games.
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Apr 5, 2021 05:13
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Phanatic posted:Better how? theres a few other reasons too, any 240p console has graphics designed around pixel bleed, where darker pixels are drawn bigger in the data but appear smaller in practice so they act as shading. emulators have filters that mimic this but it just doesnt look as cool. the screen is also more fluorescent with deeper colors and blacks than a typical lcd. playing a snes on a crt just looks good i live in europe though where we have scart and really easy hookup for RGB out, in the US i gather its a lot more complicated. for me personally it also just made sense to pick up a free crt for gaming because i dont own any big fancy tv in the first place and im basically only interested in retro games rather than modern ones
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Apr 5, 2021 05:27
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DMorbid posted:Even on a CRT, these effects don't quite show up properly if you're using RGB or component cables. They were designed specifically for the heavily blurred composite and RF output because, well, that's what everyone had in the 90s. no this just isnt true, it still looks better in RGB vs composite. RGB doesnt stop the pixel bleed effect, it just removes noise and artifacts and gives better colors. ive got a switch i can flick on my scart switch to go from composite to RGB and composite never looks better, i've tried
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Apr 5, 2021 05:32
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Shibawanko posted:no this just isnt true, it still looks better in RGB vs composite. RGB doesnt stop the pixel bleed effect, it just removes noise and artifacts and gives better colors. ive got a switch i can flick on my scart switch to go from composite to RGB and composite never looks better, i've tried
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Apr 5, 2021 06:05
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DMorbid posted:Fair enough. I haven't used composite on anything in years because it's compo-poo poo, but I have seen many slapfights about effects such as the Sonic waterfalls supposedly looking better over composite so I got confused. im not sure, with composite it also really depends and there's a lot of difference in quality, composite on my AV famicom looks almost like RGB again though i dont want to be Mr Nerd and i get why people dont want to get a crt but there are cases like mine where it just made sense to get one because theyre free, have nice graphics and i dont have space issues
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Apr 5, 2021 06:29
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 these motherfuckers and their ubiquitous CD-ROMs full of shovelware
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Apr 5, 2021 14:04
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I still have a bigass black IBM crt monitor sitting in the attic. I have a few old PCs and low res games just look like crap on modern high res lcd monitors. Not actually using it at the moment, but it's not really in the way. Probably will sell it at some point, and then regret it a few years later.
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Apr 5, 2021 14:30
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Shibawanko posted:im not sure, with composite it also really depends and there's a lot of difference in quality, composite on my AV famicom looks almost like RGB Svideo on my av famicom and snes both look excellent on my pvm. That said I’m lazy and I still buy and play most retro stuff on my switch
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Apr 5, 2021 14:38
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FilthyImp posted:Kind of made me realize there was a lot of artistry behind even getting text to appear nicely on sprite games. I don't recall if I found this account from this thread, but it is relevant to this discussion: https://twitter.com/ruuupu1 https://twitter.com/ruuupu1/status/1365618659851345921?s=20 I wouldn't always say the CRT output looks better, but it does illustrate why the sprites look like they do.
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Apr 5, 2021 15:12
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I think the big problem is that,nerds being nerds, they get super pedantic about how other people enjoy things, so it's never presented as "I enjoy thing X in Y manner for reason Z", it's always "You're not enjoying X right, because you're not doing it in Y manner, and here's reason Z why you're wrong". I've seen arguments break down to dumbass gatekeeping statements like "You haven't actually played this game, because you haven't played it on a CRT".
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Apr 5, 2021 21:56
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https://twitter.com/CRTpixels/status/1379134688049123333 Of course there's a Twitter account dedicated to these comparisons.
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Apr 5, 2021 22:52
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https://i.imgur.com/fOZ0c1C.mp4
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Apr 5, 2021 23:08
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Dammit Knuth, this is why it takes you 40 years to write half a book!
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Apr 6, 2021 11:53
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At least these days with OLEDs (or whatever the newest stuff is) we're finally getting away from the washed out backlit look of the first flatscreen monitors. It was definitely rough going for a while and I totally understood the continued appeal of CRTs, even though the drawbacks still outweighed (literally) the benefits
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Apr 6, 2021 18:31
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Wacky Delly posted:A lot more thought was put into that than I realized. The limitations of the systems has always been incorporated into the designs. Take a look at SMB3; the clouds and bushes are the same sprite with different color because it saves on the memory. Likewise sprites were designed in a way that CRT technology smooths them because the system lacked resolution and memory to handle larger image maps. But saying that you aren't playing the same game or "getting the real experience" goes right into the gatekeeping crazies-territory.
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Apr 6, 2021 18:36
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CRTs are fine if you want to use them. The worst is when people try to mimic the effect with fake CRT filters, except they turn everything up to 11 and make it look like a broken TV from 1972.
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Apr 6, 2021 19:38
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I dunno the newer TV sprites look better on everyone except arguably the BOF one.
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Apr 6, 2021 20:23
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:I dunno the newer TV sprites look better on everyone except arguably the BOF one. I like how the gradients have a smoothing to them, but otherwise both seem fine to me  You could probably plunk some anti-aliasing into an emulator and get a similar enough effect.
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Apr 6, 2021 20:28
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I'm the camp that firmly thinks the original CRT on the sprites looks best, it has the most texture and otherwise looks a little too abstracted in a way that comes across more primitive than stylized.
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Apr 6, 2021 20:30
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Iron Crowned posted:I like how the gradients have a smoothing to them, but otherwise both seem fine to me I will say modern emulator filters / AI upscaling have finally gotten to the point where I can just go hog wild with them and it doesn't feel wrong at all. For a while they were just blurry crap though.
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Apr 6, 2021 23:22
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