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I'm not surprised Dave is acting this way, didn't he mention something about the drugs damaging his brain in a way that he has huge amounts of rage or something? I hope he comes to his senses at some point.
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Jul 10, 2015 18:08
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Dave's response is up on facebook. In general it's well handled except for the "you can't copyright historical events" bit and his complete lack of understanding about fair use.
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Jul 10, 2015 18:39
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Al-Saqr posted:I'm not surprised Dave is acting this way, didn't he mention something about the drugs damaging his brain in a way that he has huge amounts of rage or something? I hope he comes to his senses at some point. That is his excuse for everything.
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Jul 10, 2015 18:51
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The Fox News comparison is dumb and not the same at all. Anyway whatever, not going to stop listening or anything TheFallenEvincar posted:Dave's definitely been a lame rear end in a top hat but I expected that when I started listening to a comedy podcast hosted by standup comedians. Yep.
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Jul 10, 2015 18:53
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In case anyone doesn't want to look for it:Dave Anthony posted:JULY 9, 2015 Like head58 said, I think he handled it pretty well. It could have been worse (he admits to making a mistake, at least) or much more confrontational (it is Dave Anthony). Blaming the lack of a website was probably not the best way to excuse it (Dave has said he uses Squarespace for his personal website and he's done ads for them before, but that might have been back on WTR). Especially since they (or at least Dave) have a presence on reddit. Hopefully he sticks to his promise, and this doesn't end up being a reason for him to dislike doing the show.
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Jul 10, 2015 19:01
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Yeah, there's a big difference between showing a clip and using someone else's words as your own. Dave says it's obvious he's reading articles, but he never actually made that clear on the show. Still like Dave Anthony the podcaster, but he's just wrong on this one. I think he will probably come around eventually. He's in fight mode right now. This is more apt than ever: 
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Jul 10, 2015 19:05
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wafflesnsegways posted:Yeah, there's a big difference between showing a clip and using someone else's words as your own. Dave says it's obvious he's reading articles, but he never actually made that clear on the show. Still like Dave Anthony the podcaster, but he's just wrong on this one. Heh, nice. They spelled Gary's name wrong, though.
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Jul 10, 2015 19:08
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I mean it was always obvious to me he was reading something, I didn't come into the podcast struck by Dave's intelligence and research skills. Like I said I always just figured he was paraphrasing a wiki page he glanced over or something
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Jul 10, 2015 19:10
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TheFallenEvincar posted:I mean it was always obvious to me he was reading something, I didn't come into the podcast struck by Dave's intelligence and research skills. Like I said I always just figured he was paraphrasing a wiki page he glanced over or something It wouldn't bother me as much if it had been a Wiki page. The more recent episodes definitely have had a more comedic edge to them, and it's just lovely that Dave refuses to acknowledge that the author's effort to make the punchline stick might contribute to the success of the Dollop.
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Jul 10, 2015 20:24
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"One of our rarely used sources, an online author, has publicly stated that The Dollop plagiarized their work and violated their copyright." Very high-minded of Dave to go out of his way to still not mention the name of the website/podcast he's issuing this non-apology to.
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Jul 10, 2015 20:45
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wafflesnsegways posted:Dave says it's obvious he's reading articles, but he never actually made that clear on the show. Doesn't the intro of the show say something like "Welcome to the Dollop, I'm your host Dave Anthony, each week I read a story from American history to Gareth Reynolds who has no idea what the topic is about" or something like that? Regardless they still shouldn't do it without sources and I'm glad they're going to post that on their site at least
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Jul 10, 2015 21:07
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Also he "rarely used" DI so it's totally okay to plagiarize. Is Dave so insecure about his banter with Gareth being The Dollop's draw that he's afraid he'll lose listeners to the podcast they're sourcing? Real mature to speak disdainfully about the people writing the narratives that (some episodes of) your podcast wouldn't exist without. Dinosaurs! fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Jul 10, 2015 |
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Jul 10, 2015 21:21
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I don't think that response is very good. He still clearly has no real understanding of what plagiarism is.
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Jul 10, 2015 21:26
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Yeah you know what, he's treating the sources poorly and the fans, I think I'm done.
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Jul 10, 2015 23:17
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You should tweet Dave telling him that  Also can we confirm (y)(n) the plagariastic content of Reverse Dollop? Retribution is coming for you Gaaaaaaaaary (And so it was foretold the greatest episode of the Dollop was...the one about the Dollop) Punkin Spunkin fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Jul 11, 2015 |
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Jul 11, 2015 01:54
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The only time I can think of Dave actually sounding apologetic about anything was on Walking The Room when they apologized for saying "tranny". Greg really was a good buffer for Dave's ragey defensiveness. I honestly never thought he was actually putting these things together himself beyond the first few episodes, but holy poo poo man own up to it. I'll keep listening, but I do think less of Dave for this whole thing. poo poo his wife is a PhD she could explain that yeah this is plagiarism as gently caress as far as academia is concerned which is why his definition is of plagiarism doesn't work here. In the entertainment world this might fly but gently caress off outside of that.
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Jul 11, 2015 02:00
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Good thing I came into this podcast not thinking anything of Dave to begin with
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Jul 11, 2015 02:26
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I've recently been doing research on Dollop-esque topics (okay, serial killers, the one thing they've said they'd never do, but similar enough that they've been asked) for the purposes of recording well-paced and informative audio segments and I can confirm, it's a lot of time consuming work just finding your sources and choosing the right words to make everything pithy while conveying what you want to your audience. The drat Interesting guy has very obviously done a huge amount of work on his articles and to just have some chucklefucks profit off of chatting over it without a word of attribution is reprehensible to me. I love The Dollop, marathoned the whole show in about a week not long ago and listen to every episode as soon as it drops, but it's been in the back of my mind for a long time how much effort should be required for Dave's side of the podcast, how clearly Dave hasn't been the one doing that work since he never makes a big deal out of it, and how he almost never speaks a word about who actually is responsible for it, which has had me worried this would happen for a while. It's real unfortunate, and I don't think there even is a good way to make it right, not that they're even trying, but I am gonna keep listening to the show against Dave's childish wishes. I'm just going to feel dirty about it.
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Jul 11, 2015 02:35
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TheFallenEvincar posted:Good thing I came into this podcast not thinking anything of Dave to begin with This is the correct approach. Dave Anthony is a very funny, deeply flawed man. I half-expected he would register an account to call us all cunts for poo poo talking him like this. That said he did the thing I wanted about as well as I thought he would, so I don't really feel any guilt listening to this going forward. Of course, assuming he's not lifting from DI or anyone against him citing their work for profit anymore. Again, content in the internet age: a series of crazy gray areas.
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Jul 11, 2015 02:49
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Dave's response is bullshit. This is coming from someone who's a big fan of the show, he should just loving sack up and say that he didn't write the material himself and give research credit at the start of each episode. It would take all of ten seconds and not leave him mired in a plagiarism scandal.
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Jul 11, 2015 02:58
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basically Dave sucks but the Dollop doesn't
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Jul 11, 2015 04:05
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Fiendly posted:...but it's been in the back of my mind for a long time how much effort should be required for Dave's side of the podcast, how clearly Dave hasn't been the one doing that work since he never makes a big deal out of it, and how he almost never speaks a word about who actually is responsible for it, which has had me worried this would happen for a while. It's real unfortunate, and I don't think there even is a good way to make it right, not that they're even trying, but I am gonna keep listening to the show against Dave's childish wishes. I'm just going to feel dirty about it. This. I love the podcast, but goddamn is Dave being a loving petulant teen about it. Cite, give credit, ask to do so if possible. Reading a wiki is not the same as a sourced, well written narrative. If he read most of an episode from Hardcore History and then just riffed on it, nobody would argue that Dan Carlin's engaging writing had nothing to do with that. Still gonna listen, just pointing that out.
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Jul 11, 2015 05:09
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Are you out there Dave Are you reading this right now???
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Jul 11, 2015 08:08
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If you can hear us, Dave: Take the test, Dave. Post the certificate. Stop being a dick.
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Jul 11, 2015 08:28
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drat Interesting readers, please forgive this unusual departure from our irregularly scheduled programming. Also, please do not view this as an invitation to antagonize anyone involved, we merely want to bring this problem to light and resolve it. Update, 10 July 2015: When I first discovered that The Dollop was using our writings in some of their episodes, I surmised that it was a callous and cynical plot to profit from others’ efforts. But following a turbulent yet predominantly civil conversation with Dave Anthony of The Dollop, I believe that the harm was not intentional, but rather a confusion of copyright, an understandable error. I received no apology, but I think I observed remorse. There are plans afoot to set things right, the matter is tentatively settled. Amid discussions involving this post on social media, I have seen a number of commenters assert that the Fair Use exception in US copyright law protects podcasters who wish to use another’s writings—even at great length—without permission or attribution. We do not feel that is the case, as Fair Use is intended to provide wiggle room for teaching, criticism, reporting, and research to include brief quoting of copyrighted material. Fair Use is a complex and nuanced exception to copyright, so it’s possible we’re misinformed, but in our view such usage—especially without attribution—is incompatible with fair use. Let us hope we need never test our view in court. I’ve also encountered the sentiment that one cannot copyright facts, which is true, but irrelevant to this discussion. That is a “straw man” argument, one meant to resemble our objections while being more easily defeated. No one is claiming ownership of facts here, we are claiming ownership of our words, our lengthy writings. I hope this post didn’t cause anyone undue consternation, but I feel it’s an important conversation to have. Thanks to all who provided thoughtful input. Alan Bellows ===================
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Jul 11, 2015 08:44
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I almost want to side against the guy for writing like that, holy poo poo. But at least they seem to have reached some kind of agreement. I wonder what it is.
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Jul 11, 2015 13:19
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Practical Demon posted:I almost want to side against the guy for writing like that, holy poo poo. But at least they seem to have reached some kind of agreement. I wonder what it is. Some more writing from him Alan Bellows on Metafilter posted:Hi everybody, Alan Bellows here. I am working on a follow-up to post on drat Interesting, but the short version is that Dave and I seem to have reached an understanding through email. He recognizes that there was real harm done to DI, but he's convinced me that it was a dark comedy of errors rather than intentional. He's planning to take some steps to set things right. Perhaps I'm being manipulated, perhaps not. Time will tell.
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Jul 11, 2015 14:32
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quote:I just want people to stop crushing us with our own material.
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Jul 12, 2015 02:39
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Looks like the new episode has a link to a sources page, which seems reasonable! Saving it for a drive so haven't heard how the elephant in the room gets addressed.
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Jul 12, 2015 11:44
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I really don't get why they couldn't have just added something to the end of the podcasts like, "One of the sources we used in researching this article was a really good article at drat Interesting. That site's great and you should really check it out." It would've given credit where credit is due and promoted a good site. I think I'm probably done with The Dollop for the foreseeable future. It was annoying enough to hear somewhat clueless people who couldn't understand simple concepts like word meanings and social norms changing over the decades and centuries, but this poo poo is just too much.
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Jul 12, 2015 16:19
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Dave's also absolutely wrong to say "There are only so many ways to say..." Isn't he a writer for Maron? Doesn't he write jokes, even if not literally writing them down but putting the phrasing together in his head? He might have avoided all this from the start if it wasn't for the fact that it was the same exact text.
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Jul 12, 2015 17:08
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Now that the two guys in question have appearantly found a solution they can both live with ... would all you guys who never posted in here before the drama kindly grab your outrage and gently caress off again? This show needs more episodes about drunken riots where nobody really gets hurt.
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Jul 13, 2015 01:23
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It's not so much that there are audio issues on so many of their episodes, it's that each one has a different audio issue. That's pretty amazing. The pregnancy one is unlistenable.
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Jul 13, 2015 04:18
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Illinois Smith posted:...would all you guys who never posted in here before the drama kindly grab your outrage and gently caress off again? Nobody was outraged, it's not your thread, go gently caress yourself.
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Jul 13, 2015 04:32
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DangerDummy! posted:It's not so much that there are audio issues on so many of their episodes, it's that each one has a different audio issue. That's pretty amazing. The pregnancy one is unlistenable. By the pregnancy one do you mean the 'Childbirth in America' episode? What's wrong with it?
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Jul 13, 2015 08:47
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I'm outraged by Dave's inability to pronounce the word 'subsequent'. It's a word that is in very common use in modern English, and it regularly comes up in the course of episodes because he's talking about series of events taking place. It's really weird that he pronounces it sub-see-quint.
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Jul 13, 2015 12:21
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I am also taking umbrage by Dave's inability to pronounce "Gareth".
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Jul 13, 2015 12:27
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Gareth's story about getting high and going to the airport (and not being able to admit it to Dave) might be the funniest thing I've heard on the podcast in a while.
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Jul 13, 2015 12:48
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ChetReckless posted:Gareth's story about getting high and going to the airport (and not being able to admit it to Dave) might be the funniest thing I've heard on the podcast in a while. Am I going to be okay? Yeah that was really really funny.
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Jul 15, 2015 21:10
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A third party weighs in on the plagiarism stuff. Basically echos a lot of the conversation in the thread. Also, all of the podcasts (or at least all the ones I checked) have sources now. Besides being more responsible, it's an easy way to do a little more reading on interesting stories. Which is cool.
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Jul 15, 2015 21:58
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