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I'm gonna crosspost this from the D&D chat thread because I'm interested in your take on this: My company just updated their employee handbook, and added this section: quote:SEARCHES ON COMPANY PROPERTY Can they legally do that? Break into your car and search it?
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Dec 30, 2014 20:19
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CornHolio posted:I'm gonna crosspost this from the D&D chat thread because I'm interested in your take on this: Hmmmm....I doubt they can search your car without a warrant.... The trick being: They would probably make your consent to a search of your vehicle tied to your continue employment if found innocent.
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Dec 30, 2014 20:20
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CommieGIR posted:Hmmmm....I doubt they can search your car without a warrant.... yeah, but the policy states they don't even have to let you know. As in, they could throw a brick through my window because they think I might have some weed in there, and then I have to pay for it when they don't find anything. I know police can search with probable cause (I think?) but an employer? Not so sure.
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Dec 30, 2014 20:31
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Somewhat Heroic posted:I agree that it was good, and particularly a few of the fringe characters made their scenes great. Ron Swanson is a character that was so consistently good at being Ron Swanson his bits were never stale. Andy was a great character too in part to Chris Pratt and seeing him gain some success on the big screen is cool to see. Donna was probably the next best under rated character. EDIT: Jean-Ralphio stole ever single scene. He was such a douche that I loved every second of him on the screen. He was totally polarizing. People loved him or hated him which I think speaks well to the character. Getting some sort of emotion out of you is the point. Arrested Development has a good argument for it. The writing is absolutely stellar and the cast is incredible. The problem is that it went 2 really amazing seasons, then the 3rd season got really weird as they knew they were getting cancelled. Then, the Netflix exclusive stuff was just pure insanity. It took the intertwined comedy of the original to stupid levels and was literally making jokes that didnt have a punchline til 8 episodes later. Whereas Parks and Rec is extremely consistent in comparison. The first season is a little bland as they started to break the "We want this show to be like the Office" mold a little bit, but after that it is really great throughout. I'm just not sure there has ever been a show that blended perfectly mass appeal (seriously what demographic doesn't like that that show?), slapstick, highbrow, and heartwarming all together and made it work. Community certainly did it for a while, but it was short lived and got too meta, too fast. The 3 shows we are discussing are definitely all towards the top of my list of favorite comedies though, you really cant lose with watching any of them if you haven't seen them before. I feel like the first 2 seasons of Arrested Development are required watching, assuming you have eyeballs and a couch.
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Dec 30, 2014 20:34
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CornHolio posted:yeah, but the policy states they don't even have to let you know. Check if your state considers your vehicle an extension of your home (with all the legal rights that entails - nm will probably know more than me, and could either tell me I'm an idiot and full of poo poo, or on the right track, I'm not sure) before you say anything about this. I think that would override what the company says about its private property, but not sure. Also, be prepared to go looking for a new job if you want to contest this. Hell, if I was going to say anything about it I wouldn't bother till I had an offer in hand, so I could quit on the spot and make it incredibly clear that some employees won't stand for bullshit like that.
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Dec 30, 2014 20:40
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CornHolio posted:yeah, but the policy states they don't even have to let you know. Oh, yeah I'm with Kastein, check with your state, but this doesn't seem legal on the face of it.
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Dec 30, 2014 20:45
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CommieGIR posted:Oh, yeah I'm with Kastein, check with your state, but this doesn't seem legal on the face of it. I'm in Indiana, company headquarters are in Michigan. I don't keep anything in my car anyway, so I'm not personally worried about it, it just doesn't seem legal. I was arguing about it with some fellow coworkers (who tend to be of the 'don't break the law if you don't want to get choked' mentality).
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Dec 30, 2014 20:47
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Ugh, I hate filling up at Costco. Been stuck in line for 10 minutes and the way the attendants are moving it looks like it will be another 5. I wish we could pump our own here.
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Dec 30, 2014 21:12
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I just learned in my ethics class that companies only have a legal right to access your stuff that is stored on their computers or in their lockers or whatever, but your car? Not a loving chance, especially for drugs or illegal poo poo that is in your car.
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Dec 30, 2014 21:19
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CornHolio posted:I'm gonna crosspost this from the D&D chat thread because I'm interested in your take on this: Legal? Possibly not. Will you be able to do poo poo about it? Probably not.
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Dec 30, 2014 21:30
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I assume they'd only want to do that if they want a convenient excuse for getting rid of you anyway
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Dec 30, 2014 21:33
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Elmnt80 posted:Legal? Possibly not. Will you be able to do poo poo about it? Probably not. I just hate when a company implicitly violates my rights by sticking illegal things in their employee handbook. While I might know my rights well enough to consult with a lawyer if I had to, I think most people here would look it up, see it's in the handbook, and accept it. And that doesn't sit well with me.
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Dec 30, 2014 21:52
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CornHolio posted:I just hate when a company implicitly violates my rights by sticking illegal things in their employee handbook. While I might know my rights well enough to consult with a lawyer if I had to, I think most people here would look it up, see it's in the handbook, and accept it. And that doesn't sit well with me. USA 2014. 
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Dec 30, 2014 21:56
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EVERYWHERE 
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CornHolio posted:Can they legally do that? Break into your car and search it? From some website i found. You're not going to like it. http://labor-employment-law.lawyers.com/employees-privacy-in-the-workplace.html#six quote:Q: Can my employer search my automobile? So ultimately, if you want to know for sure, contact the state and ask them. But don't get your hopes up. Land of the free.
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Dec 30, 2014 22:19
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I've brought up that putting a clause in the employee handbook that discussing wages with other employees is subject to discipline up to and including termination is illegal per the taft-hartley act at least three times now, it's funny how that clause just keeps reappearing
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Dec 30, 2014 22:40
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Ozmiander posted:Anyone who thinks BBT is any worse than any other trash sitcom is just being a sensitive baby because THEY'RE MISAPPROPRIATING MUH CULTURE! BBT sucks loving rear end because they forgot what actually made it a good show in it's third season - actual well written comedy. And I don't mean NERDS ARE DUMB HURRR as they do now or the awkward bullshit that the USA TV stations keep making thinking that will suffice from genuine humour that BBT morphed to - comedy like how Amy was introduced, that was actually hilarious and exactly what went missing after season 3. It's become everything that is wrong with sitcoms.
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Dec 30, 2014 22:58
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Cat Terrist posted:BBT sucks loving rear end because they forgot what actually made it a good show in it's third season - actual well written comedy. And I don't mean NERDS ARE DUMB HURRR as they do now or the awkward bullshit that the USA TV stations keep making thinking that will suffice from genuine humour that BBT morphed to - comedy like how Amy was introduced, that was actually hilarious and exactly what went missing after season 3. It's become everything that is wrong with sitcoms. Sheldon is the only reason I watch it, because one of my Physics proffessors has autism and acts just like him  He's also my favorite professor because he's actually a really nice guy, just difficult to get near.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:03
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CornHolio posted:I just hate when a company implicitly violates my rights by sticking illegal things in their employee handbook. While I might know my rights well enough to consult with a lawyer if I had to, I think most people here would look it up, see it's in the handbook, and accept it. And that doesn't sit well with me. As an employer I have no idea why people get so upset about terms in an employee handbook. Why worry about one particular clause? If you are a poo poo employee then you deserve to lose your job (by whatever method). If your employer want to get rid of you there are a poo poo load of ways to go about it with or without the 'weird' clauses. If they get rid of you they will have to follow the timescales and notice periods laid out in the contract you signed Maybe I'm bitter because I work hard (I have a small business currently with 7 employees) and the only employees who have ever questioned any of this type of handbook clauses have been the poo poo employees that I wanted to get rid of anyway because they were useless/lazy/crazy (or a combination of). I pay excessive amounts of money to a huge HR company to write my contracts and handbooks. They release amendments every couple of months.Some of them are wierd ones like this that I assume get added due to legal action they get involved in (I get legal protection with my HR contract) In this case I would assume that the company would be searching cars due to a theft at work or a drug policy. If while doing it they find something you have stolen from work then you deserve it. If they find something illegal - then you could also have been pulled over by a cop on the way to work and the same could have happened. Its illegal. you take your chances...
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Dec 30, 2014 23:03
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Tomarse posted:In this case I would assume that the company would be searching cars due to a theft at work or a drug policy. If while doing it they find something you have stolen from work then you deserve it. If they find something illegal - then you could also have been pulled over by a cop on the way to work and the same could have happened. Its illegal. you take your chances... If there is reasonable cause to do a search then the Police should be the ones doing it.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:08
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Tomarse posted:In this case I would assume that the company would be searching cars due to a theft at work or a drug policy. If while doing it they find something you have stolen from work then you deserve it. If they find something illegal - then you could also have been pulled over by a cop on the way to work and the same could have happened. Its illegal. you take your chances... No, it should be the police. Not only because of the legal ramifications of your employer pilfering through your things if you are innocent, but also because the Police can write a LEGAL report that can be used as both grounds for firing and legal recourse. For the same reason that cops have to get a warrant to search your car on the side of the road.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:10
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dissss posted:If there is reasonable cause to do a search then the Police should be the ones doing it. Fair point.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:10
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The issue is that clause appears to let you, the employer, break into my car without telling me, with no legal recourse, notice or whatever. So I come out to my car and find either a broken window or the door jemmied open, everything rifled through by someone in HR. And I'm okay with this because? E:, slow posting, covered more eloquently by other posters
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Dec 30, 2014 23:11
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No, they can't break into anyone's car at any time and search, because that would be a crime and them confronting an employee with what they found would be evidence they committed a crime (breaking into a car) They can request a search, either entering or exiting the company property, or at any time the car is on company property, and if denied would probably fire the employee. So no. An employee is never going to finish their shift and find their window or locks broken due to a company search. Employer will ask the employee to consent and unlock the car to be searched or be fired if they do not consent. Fo3 fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Dec 30, 2014 |
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Dec 30, 2014 23:20
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I got promoted. I'm now handling all the purchasing of merchandise from vendors. Got a raise too. Nice one 2014, trying to tickle my balls a little before you take off.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:21
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Fo3 posted:No, they can't break into anyone's car at any time and search, because that would be a crime and them confronting an employee with what they found would be evidence they committed a crime (breaking into a car) Well that's obvious once you say it.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:26
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I like how people keep talking about generic employer hucking a brick through the window of you car instead of just calling a locksmith or something similar. It kinda says something about your opinion of you employer. Also, a company will generally do as it pleases with its employees and if you don't want to play ball, they'll show you the door. Too many people have gotten to the point where they see someone not wanting to be treated like poo poo as that person acting like an entitled shithead for it to change without a bunch of Samuel Gompers 2.0s running around.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:28
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Fo3 posted:They can request a search, either entering or exiting the company property, or at any time the car is on company property, and if denied would probably fire the employee. Bingo, this is exactly what they do at my place, random spot checks which amount to the guard peering in the windows and opening the boot at the security gate.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:28
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Fill the trunk to the brim with thousands of dildos just in case.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:32
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Seat Safety Switch posted:Fill the trunk to the brim with thousands of dildos just in case. Dildos in silly-snake cans.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:33
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Rhyno posted:I got promoted. I'm now handling all the purchasing of merchandise from vendors. Got a raise too. Nice!
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Dec 30, 2014 23:35
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Tomarse posted:If they get rid of you they will have to follow the timescales and notice periods laid out in the contract you signed Contracts? In the land of the free (and at-will / right-to-work states), good luck with that.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:36
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Elmnt80 posted:I like how people keep talking about generic employer hucking a brick through the window of you car instead of just calling a locksmith or something similar. It kinda says something about your opinion of you employer.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:36
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I wonder if it's possible to get a dildo to fit tight enough into a tube that you could use pressurized air instead of a spring.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:37
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I just watched season 2 of Black Mirror, followed by the Christmas special, and I'm all like    It is without hyperbole one of the absolute best shows I have ever seen. It's brilliantly executed and genuinely terrifying to watch, sort of like Twilight Zone for the 2010s, turned up to 11. If you haven't watched it yet, do it now. Charlie Brooker is a goddamn genius.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:38
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Tusen Takk posted:Nice! I was absolutely not expecting it. I honestly thought I was going to be on my way out after May.
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Dec 30, 2014 23:40
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Elmnt80 posted:I wonder if it's possible to get a dildo to fit tight enough into a tube that you could use pressurized air instead of a spring. Let me tell you about a night I ate chilli on a date...
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Dec 30, 2014 23:40
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Cakefool posted:The issue is that clause appears to let you, the employer, break into my car without telling me, with no legal recourse, notice or whatever. So I come out to my car and find either a broken window or the door jemmied open, everything rifled through by someone in HR. And I'm okay with this because? I read it as they can search without notice not 'without your permission'. If they broke into your car you could get the police involved yourself. This is the sort of clause that gets added to my handbooks as a scheduled amendment... I don't read it as saying they could break into your car but that if they suspected you of thieving from the company they could march you out there immediately and ask you to unlock it so they could search it. If you refuse its an easy dismissal for them (as per this clause). The other things they can search (lockers, desks, briefcases, storage cabinets, computers) are all fair game in my opinion. Maybe I am biased as I read them from an employers point of view not an employee. I am also an employer with bitter personal experience of fighting pointless arguments with poo poo employees about minor amendments and who spent much of 2013 downsizing and making people redundant (and paying far above the minimum I had to for them all) and paying for it out of my own money, time and sleep (I earnt less than all the people I made redundant that year and worked much more)
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Dec 30, 2014 23:47
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Yeah, just poorly written, as in they chucked the private car in there on the same sentence as company property because who ever wrote it was lazy and couldn't be bothered writing another sentence. E: ^^ Yes you are bitter. Don't forget when you were an employee, don't forget you are working for your business, your dream. It isn't theirs, they work for a paycheque. There's pro and con of being the boss and I've been on both sides myself. Fo3 fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Dec 30, 2014 |
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Dec 30, 2014 23:54
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Yeah, uh... I'm not sure if a few people are fully grasping a few things with Cornholio's question. There's basically multiple things simultaneously going on at once that basically paints the employee into the corner. It's safe to assume that all states have at-will employment which is totally fair because you can totally quit at any time! Which is exactly the same as being able to get shitcanned at any time for whatever reason (as long as it isn't an openly gender or racial thing)! So there's a huge instance of the employer having significantly more sway than the employee in that relationship. Then you also get into strawman arguments that circumvent the whole issue of illegally searching your property with dogshit like "WHAT DO YOU GOTTA HIDE DUDE? WHAT ARE YA HIDING?" and other guilty until proven innocent garbage. There's also the whole implicit guilt thing by exercising your rights. Anyways, I'll be over here with my good komrade rscott.
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Dec 31, 2014 00:04
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Tomarse posted:As an employer I have no idea why people get so upset about terms in an employee handbook. Being an rear end in a top hat employer trying to get away with poo poo that is illegal or extremely dickish is exactly something we should get worked up about. And yes I have been on both sides so I well appreciate not being a dick works both ways. Of course employees are going to get worked up over illegal clauses or dick moves quote:Yeah, uh... I'm not sure if a few people are fully grasping a few things with Cornholio's question. There's basically multiple things simultaneously going on at once that basically paints the employee into the corner. It's safe to assume that all states have at-will employment which is totally fair because you can totally quit at any time! Which is exactly the same as being able to get shitcanned at any time for whatever reason (as long as it isn't an openly gender or racial thing)! So there's a huge instance of the employer having significantly more sway than the employee in that relationship. Then you also get into strawman arguments that circumvent the whole issue of illegally searching your property with dogshit like "WHAT DO YOU GOTTA HIDE DUDE? WHAT ARE YA HIDING?" and other guilty until proven innocent garbage. There's also the whole implicit guilt thing by exercising your rights. Very well said
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Dec 31, 2014 00:11
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