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I think some of it is because it seems safer and easier to take a new character and build a heel out of them. Unless you can give them the Goldberg/'80s Hogan push a fresh heel is going to quickly build credibility with jobber/midcard squashes, cheap shots on the established upper card faces and interviews where they/their manager runs the cheap heat flowchart. As long as they win and look strong doing it you can take a new/rebooted character from debut to at/near main event heel status in under a year (Umaga, Rusev, Khali, Taker, Angle, list goes on.)
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Dec 2, 2014 11:49
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If turning a big heel into a face was the secret to making a star, they'd have to start calling him The Bigger Than Jesus Show
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Dec 2, 2014 11:49
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Why aren't these young guys impressing me and going out of their way to grab the brass ring in my tightly scripted, creatively stifling environment where experimentation and dissent are swiftly punished?
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Dec 2, 2014 11:56
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Davros1 posted:See how lazy Punk and Bryan were/are? They weren't even trying to grab the brass ring! When you look at CM Punk all I can think "yeah there goes a guy who really didn't want to be the face of the company and just wanted to make cheques on Superstars." Vince is right.
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Dec 2, 2014 12:22
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I got a good laugh at both Punk and Vince complaining about millennials.
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Dec 2, 2014 12:27
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I felt the most interesting thing in that interview was Vince revealing that he feels he's the Stone Cold character for real.
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Dec 2, 2014 12:48
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Fat Lowtax posted:The thing about this RAW was that it wasn't even memorably bad. Nothing ridiculous happened. It just reminded me of a late-stage Impact in that every single thing was completely inconsequential. the worst wrestling can be is bland, so in this way, it was the worst i've seen in a while.
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Dec 2, 2014 12:54
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Animal-Mother posted:I felt the most interesting thing in that interview was Vince revealing that he feels he's the Stone Cold character for real. Yeah? That's been known for a while. Vince is this unique individual who is somehow a rich millionaire but he also loving hates the rich. He thinks they're all stuck up assholes who need to get a good mudhole stomped in them. Hell the initial basis for the HHH character was "My loving neighbours all think I'm uncultured because I'm in the wrestling business" and yes, do not let revisionist history fool you, when Ted Turner called up to tell vince he was in the 'Rasslin' Business Vince's response was not that he was in Entertainment, it was that he was in the WRESTLING Business. You're looking at a guy who actually, really, well and truly loves Wrestling, and I know that's loving weird to hear, but he's got a giant chip on his shoulder where Raw draws what it draws, and advertisers low ball him. That people turn their nose up and go "Oh, Wrestling?" And it fuels the fury of 1000 suns as he (Egged on by his bucktoothed stooge) tries to make it "Accepted" However the ball missed, is the ball so many people have missed. In an attempt to make wrestling more 'accepted' the fans of wrestling have been driven away, and the people who didn't like it don't care.
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Dec 2, 2014 12:54
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Onmi posted:Yeah? That's been known for a while. Vince is this unique individual who is somehow a rich millionaire but he also loving hates the rich. He thinks they're all stuck up assholes who need to get a good mudhole stomped in them. Hell the initial basis for the HHH character was "My loving neighbours all think I'm uncultured because I'm in the wrestling business" and yes, do not let revisionist history fool you, when Ted Turner called up to tell vince he was in the 'Rasslin' Business Vince's response was not that he was in Entertainment, it was that he was in the WRESTLING Business. Vince hates the rich because he's never managed to fit in with or be accepted by them for numerous reasons, not the least of which is that he comes off as the most awkward person possible when taken out of his work setting. He's a very odd dude with pretty obvious insecurity issues and he's tried harder than any other multi-millionaire entrepreneur I can think of to branch off/escape from the only business he's ever been largely successful at.
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Dec 2, 2014 13:10
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Aesop Poprock posted:Vince hates the rich because he's never managed to fit in with or be accepted by them for numerous reasons, not the least of which is that he comes off as the most awkward person possible when taken out of his work setting. He's a very odd dude with pretty obvious insecurity issues and he's tried harder than any other multi-millionaire entrepreneur I can think of to branch off/escape from the only business he's ever been largely successful at. no wonder him and Donald Trump are such good friends
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Dec 2, 2014 13:14
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Dexters Secret posted:no wonder him and Donald Trump are such good friends if these two were left in a closet together overnight one of them would devour the other one whole like a snake. I can't imagine any other outcome
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Dec 2, 2014 13:38
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MacDougall posted:That being said, like I said to me at least I've always felt like a guy who is over as a heel and has the crowd organically shift or the booking very subtly start altering his character to move the crowd behind him is at least an easier way to create a top face. Than running someone as a main event face from the word go. It might be a sign of the times that a guy who has no dark edge can't really connect with the people so much? Once you see a character's dark side you can connect better with them when they are doing the babyface routine. The great thing with Rollins is that he has found a character "Whiny entitled douche," and people seem to HATE it. Rollins is really drat good in the ring and he knows enough high spots to get baby face heat back. It's so weird, but Rollins and Ambrose never really register as being that tall to me. I don't know why. - With how hard they're apparently planning on pushing Reigns, I wonder if he could wind up getting 'Die Rocky Die' kind of heat. Writer Cath fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 13:51
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I think Vince has spent the last couple decades desperately trying to get the mainstream entertainment industry to take him seriously. It's kind of pathetic and alienates his core audience. I also fastforwarded a chunk of Raw and wondering if anything came of the anonymous Raw GM. I figured they'd be too embarrassed to bring it back but when they did I figured they'd have to go somewhere with it.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:09
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Writer Cath posted:With how hard they're apparently planning on pushing Reigns, I wonder if he could wind up getting 'Die Rocky Die' kind of heat. That sort of forced booking tends to Anoa'i people
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Dec 2, 2014 14:15
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Writer Cath posted:It's so weird, but Rollins and Ambrose never really register as being that tall to me. I don't know why. I have the same problem. When Jericho referred to Seth as a big guy in their interview, it threw me. He's just a lil flippy dude (who happens to be 6'1" and jacked)! I think that Dean doesn't seem so tall because he hunches his shoulders and doesn't wrestle tall. He's way too scrappy to be the biggest Shield member.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:19
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I got home at 11 last night and started Raw from the beginning. I think I watched the opening segment, the Wyatt stuff, the Heyman thing and the main event and fast forwarded everything else. It was a good way to watch raw.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:20
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quote:- Austin asks McMahon when he's going to retire. McMahon says he's enjoying it now more than ever, he's healthy, he's working as many hours as ever before. He says physically he isn't losing a step, and doesn't think he is mentally. He said some people think he's out of touch, but those people are just critics. lol it's never going to end
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Dec 2, 2014 14:20
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Charles Gnarwin posted:I have the same problem. When Jericho referred to Seth as a big guy in their interview, it threw me. He's just a lil flippy dude (who happens to be 6'1" and jacked)! Holy poo poo Ambrose IS taller than Reigns!
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Dec 2, 2014 14:21
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Mr. Carlisle posted:lol it's never going to end "I'm not out of touch at all. To prove it, here's LARRY THE CABLE GUY!!!!"
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Dec 2, 2014 14:26
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I never understood that 'People who say x are just critics' line of thought as if it's supposed to dismiss it. While it's true that a critics job is to criticize something, it doesn't mean it's their job to FALSELY criticize something.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:37
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sportsgenius86 posted:I got home at 11 last night and started Raw from the beginning. I think I watched the opening segment, the Wyatt stuff, the Heyman thing and the main event and fast forwarded everything else. It was a good way to watch raw. If you fastforwarded the Erick Rowan backstage interview you missed the best part of the show.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:39
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Niwrad posted:I think Vince has spent the last couple decades desperately trying to get the mainstream entertainment industry to take him seriously. It's kind of pathetic and alienates his core audience. I'm pretty sure there was one announcement at the start of the show setting up Cena/Rollins for MITB and then it was never heard from again. Also no mention of who would be running the show next week, assuming they are doing a "different GM every week" storyline until they decide what they're actually doing.
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Dec 2, 2014 14:59
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Blasmeister posted:If you fastforwarded the Erick Rowan backstage interview you missed the best part of the show. I watched that because I read the discussion thread to see what was worth viewing.
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Dec 2, 2014 15:13
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sportsgenius86 posted:I got home at 11 last night and started Raw from the beginning. I think I watched the opening segment, the Wyatt stuff, the Heyman thing and the main event and fast forwarded everything else. It was a good way to watch raw. I watched nine Prince Devitt matches and the Vince interview. It was a good way to watch raw.
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Dec 2, 2014 15:19
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Between that Vince interview & last night's Raw I am really down on WWE right now haha. To be fair I had to give up on Raw after they pinned The New Day. Between the 6 hour opening segment and then immediately beating the group they've been hyping for weeks, I could tell this show wouldn't have anything for me.
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Dec 2, 2014 15:20
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AngryCaterpillar posted:That sort of forced booking tends to Anoa'i people
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Dec 2, 2014 15:26
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Oh MAN, you guys. I know people hate wrestling dreams posts, but I had this really hosed up nightmare where the end of Raw was actually the opening of Raw and—triplexpac posted:To be fair I had to give up on Raw after they pinned The New Day. Between the 6 hour opening segment and then immediately beating the group they've been hyping for weeks, I could tell this show wouldn't have anything for me. ... Is... is this still the dream 
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Dec 2, 2014 15:28
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triplexpac posted:immediately beating the group they've been hyping for weeks And then they jobbed out Catsaro! 
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Dec 2, 2014 15:38
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Chinston Wurchill posted:And then they jobbed out Catsaro! yeah after that Vince interview I wouldn't be expecting them to dominate the tag scene
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Dec 2, 2014 15:43
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As someone who casually watches Raw after not watching any wrestling since 2009 or so, I mostly find it frustrating that even though there are interesting/talented people (many of them guys I enjoyed watching in the indies back then) every Raw is just a cookie cutter predictable event with the same opening talking segment, and the same guys wrestling each other again and again, going back since I started watching again this past spring. It's the exact opposite of the idea of 'anything can happen in the WWE' However, I'm hyped at the possibility that I'll get to see Cesaro vs Swagger, or Usos vs Dusts or Cena vs anyone again soon!!!! edit: also this means no one gets over because matches don't mean anything Marquis de Pyro fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Dec 2, 2014 |
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Dec 2, 2014 15:44
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hi i fell asleep early last night, how bullshit was the vince podcast
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Dec 2, 2014 15:49
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Cardboard Box posted:hi i fell asleep early last night, how bullshit was the vince podcast Quite bullshit, but Austin did ask the hard questions to his credit. Listen to the Observer rundown of it.
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Dec 2, 2014 15:53
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doin' that now, thanks
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Dec 2, 2014 15:54
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flashy_mcflash posted:Quite bullshit, but Austin did ask the hard questions to his credit. Listen to the Observer rundown of it. Yeah Dave running down the Vince interview was quite interesting.
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Dec 2, 2014 15:58
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Honestly I'm pretty okay with Cesaro and Ziggler being in the midcard forever as long as they get time to have cool matches
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Dec 2, 2014 16:02
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I really had hoped Austin would talk about the diversity issue with the champion, especially on the night where New Day gets jobbed out on their RAW debut.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:02
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Shima Honnou posted:Actually Erick Rowan is a very interesting supergenius.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:13
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Vintimus Prime posted:I really had hoped Austin would talk about the diversity issue with the champion, especially on the night where New Day gets jobbed out on their RAW debut.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:13
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Vintimus Prime posted:I really had hoped Austin would talk about the diversity issue with the champion, especially on the night where New Day gets jobbed out on their RAW debut. lol
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Dec 2, 2014 16:14
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It seriously blows my mind that they just jobbed the New Day guys out like that in what was essentially their debut. Smackdown never counts, lets be real here. How can it not make every single viewer feel like they wasted their time? Weeks of vignettes hyping up these guys and they lose in the middle of a gauntlet match. Maybe they're going to turn them heel immediately, angry black man stable sick of the man making them dance.
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Dec 2, 2014 16:23
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