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It's about goddamn time you got to play a fun, good game. I wish I hadn't lost my disc to a friend's basement and the Detroit flood back in August.
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Dec 2, 2014 23:07
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I saved Wyatt first. Fergus seemed to want me to choose that. I felt like a bastard either way, and it was a big thing that drove me to go back and replay the game again.
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Dec 3, 2014 18:26
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On one hand, the pistol is extremely effective at quiet nazi removal without much trouble. On the other, stabbing nazis is SO SATISFYING, so the dual knives are obviously superior.
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Dec 5, 2014 02:25
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Oh, kickass. Time to replace my ruined disc and pray it'll run on my computer!
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Dec 6, 2014 02:30
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Goddamn, it won't work properly on my old computer. At least it's on my Steam account whenever I finally get around to upgrading and I can stab nazis vicariously through your LP.
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Dec 6, 2014 08:22
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Well, you know, my computer is 5 years old and I'm replacing it soon because old, so having it on Steam to run later is no biggy.
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Dec 8, 2014 19:14
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Everything about this game was an unexpected good surprise. And such a good surprise it was.
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Dec 10, 2014 00:32
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I'm surprised to see you using the pistol 1960 in burst mode. I never found that useful.
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Dec 10, 2014 05:02
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Antistar01 posted:It does feel like a level that would be shown to the press during development (maybe it was - I don't know), and it was used in a trailer designed to show off stealth vs action: It's also a great level for that because it's a level that really does let you do either or. There aren't too many foes, etc to just go in shooting but it's also well set up with alternate routes and dudes to stab.
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Dec 12, 2014 06:53
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Samovar posted:Re. comment about the concentration camps, not all of them were extermination factories, though there were several that were. Others had more specified purposes. Of special note - just in case you were ever thinking that the representation of the Nazais in this game was OTT - is UWZ Lager Lebrechtsdorf– Potulitz, a concentration camp specifically made to benefit from the slave labour of children. Yes, children. Whenever you think someone has exaggerated the depravity of the Nazis, you are usually wrong. Similar for the IJA in China.
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Dec 16, 2014 18:40
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Lazyfire posted:I just really love him being portrayed as a guy who knows what to do when it comes to killing, but being a giant awkward child around women. BJ is a guy who knows he's a shooter protagonist, longs to be more, but at the same time knows he cannot be so. It avoids ludonarrative dissonance by making his inclination as a character doing exactly what you're going to do in gameplay (That it's surrounded by a well-told story that makes it feel solid and like there are good reasons to be doing this helps) while still giving the poor beefslab some actual pathos and character. He's not just awkward around women, he's awkward in just about every situation that doesn't involve stabbing people, though he's generally well intentioned. I love BJ's character in this game.
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Dec 17, 2014 17:56
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double nine posted:I really don't see how their little vehicle escape trick can work. That car is going to crash into a building 200 meters further and then people are going to wonder where the hell the passengers are, and examine the cctv footage. In the other timeline it's summed up with the best line: "Well, you know, the best thing about Nazis is they really are incredibly stupid."
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Dec 18, 2014 21:03
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I've often found I can tell if I'll like a shooter by how good its shotgun is. Wolfenstein's shotgun is one of the best I've ever seen, especially when dual-wielded, especially when you gunslide with it.
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Dec 18, 2014 23:04
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A constant reason Fascists lose fights is because Fascist ideology in no way allows accurate assessment of the enemy or of their own ability. If they take BJ down they'll be heroes, right? Like, I think the idiocy is actually intentional. This game goes out of its way to poo poo on Nazis whenever it can and point out how batshit crazy they were and would be and it's one of the most endearing parts of the story. Like the conversation between the two guards, where the one guy is trying frantically to say 'Hey there might be some bad poo poo going on' and the other is all 'Our leaders are healthy! Just exercise more.  '
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Dec 18, 2014 23:14
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I never played Wolf 2009, and it gets across right away the relationship between the two of them right away, as well as establishing Caroline very well. This game generally does a really good job of introducing characters and relationships. I need to stop gushing about this game so much, but it's seriously my favorite of 2014.
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Dec 19, 2014 00:56
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Pvt.Scott posted:E: Maybe a WWII movie about some heroic Wehrmacht soldiers or something? Well, there was the entire Clean Wehrmacht myth, by which it was generally claimed after the war (incorrectly) that the regular army didn't participate in most of the Atrocities and it was all the SS. Now, this is totally reasonable; you can't prosecute the entire Wehrmacht and you've got to have peace at some point (and the allies wanted West Germany as a bulwark against Stalin, which, considering Stalin, isn't as cynical or insane as it sounds) but it was completely bullshit. So I guess there was sort of an official version of this. And yes, some of these are probably decent people, which is why you have Caroline and Klaus. And the letters and things that aren't getting shown at the moment are things like a German Catholic priest objecting intensely to the Nazis attacking the people he was missionarying among and trying to protect them and things like that. But at the same time the regime is still a Nazi regime and it's doing what the Nazis said they'd do; extermination, 'race science', etc is still going on at this point in the timeline. The status quo does, in fact, need to get stopped.
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Dec 19, 2014 04:14
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WirelessPillow posted:Band of Brothers was pretty good on the soldier aspect of WWII, where most of the German soldiers were just that, soldiers doing their job. One of the German soldiers in the series is even American, he's there because his parents dragged him home. Someone in the game puts it this way: "Everyone is becoming a Nazi or pretending to have become a Nazi, which is making them act like a Nazi."
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Dec 19, 2014 19:53
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anilEhilated posted:Let's face it, the only other thing I can think of associated with fascism that'd make a wonder is Mussolini's train timetables. It is kinda difficult, really, fascist countries usually tend to focus on statues as opposed to buildings for their monuments. Which also didn't actually work out at all. He did not, in fact, make the trains run on time. Fascists are hilariously bad at economies.
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Dec 20, 2014 22:54
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Magni posted:I remember reading a IRL diary of a Waffen SS private that was publicised after his death that's basically this story. Can't remember the title or name anymore. One of the most depressing things I ever read - guy volunteered a few days before the war as a true believer ideologically (he considers the whole race thing a bit silly at times but is otherwise right on board) and you can read through the entries how the war and him witnessing atrocities just erodes his entire worldview. By '43 he's bitter, cynical, traumatised and just loving hates himself for having been dumb enough to believe any of it. The only reason he keeps fighting at all is that he's convinced that if the Soviets ever make it to Germany, they'd just wipe out everyone wholesale. Didn't make him out as him as a good person per se, but holy poo poo if it didn't made you feel at least some sympathy and pity for the guy. I remember reading somewhere that the reason the Nazis invented the gas chambers was because they'd originally tried to send Waffen SS units to just mass-execute the people they considered undesirable, but the soldiers kept going insane from doing it. Accounts of attempts to manually execute people on the scale the Nazis intended to generally suggest that for the most part, even fanatical soldiers have a hard time doing it consistently. It should say a lot about the Nazis that they saw 'Hey even our craziest guys are having a hard time doing the things we tell them to do' as a problem to be solved by the simple expedient of granting some more psychological distance, rather than 'So maybe these are not good things.'
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Dec 21, 2014 17:25
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WirelessPillow posted:how did the Italian alliance end up if they were against anyone not Aryan? And why did they end up using North Africans in their troops? I recall the Onion's take on this: "Japanese ally with rabid white supremacists in well thought out scheme."
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Dec 22, 2014 07:54
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Lazyfire, are you going to do the Wyatt Timeline, too?
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Dec 26, 2014 05:33
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Okay, in that case I'll hold off on giving my opinion on why J is great and the implied stuff about what's going on in America is fantastic until it comes up.
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Dec 26, 2014 07:54
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I loving love the Stealing the Choppers scene. The music cue and the dialogue match up so well.
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Dec 26, 2014 20:53
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WirelessPillow posted:So what you are saying is that BJ is the reason for this alternate reality to begin with!? In fairness, this reality is probably preferable to the one where necromancers/vampires/dark wizards win due to lack of BJ.
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Dec 29, 2014 07:10
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Marshal Radisic posted:I can't cite my sources, but according to someone on the MachineGames team, they were experimenting with having filters on the camera and sluggish controls in the asylum level to simulate BJ regaining his faculties. After they ran through the level and realized it wasn't much fun to play, they cut it all out. Probably for the best, I suppose. This, right here, is exactly why this game is so good. It never sacrifices story for gameplay or gameplay for story.
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Dec 30, 2014 08:40
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That's one of the weirdest things about Nazi related media. I remember watching the Zero Punctuation on Velvet Assassin once and the reviewer complaining about how unrealistically cacklingly evil the Dirlewanger Battalion was, and how silly it would be to have a unit of penal troops you just sort of unleashed on local populations to kill, rape and steal in revenge for partisan activity. Except they did that! They did that exact thing! That unit existed to do that! The Nazis thought that was a good idea! Every time you hit something and go 'Man, no-one would be that evil.' if you look it up, the Nazis probably did it.
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Dec 30, 2014 17:05
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Lazyfire posted:Not really, Germany actually had a decent economy once they solved their hyperinflation issue (which was caused partially because of the modern $434 billion they were required to pay in $6 billion yearly installments, but was also partially due to the fact Germany decided the war would be short and took out loans to pay for everything in WWI and all those payments came due shortly after the war ended). The Great Depression hit Germany just as hard as it hit anywhere else and killed their economy. The largest single party behind the Nazis in the 1934 Reichstag elections were the Communists, so it was more people going to extremes to try and find a solution after the more mainstream political parties had failed. Don't forget that there were plenty like von Papen who assumed the Fascists could be easily controlled to fight and oppose the Communists. They didn't just think they could manage the extremists, plenty of people in Italy (and a shamefully large number in the Church) felt guys like Mussolini could at least fight the Communists. Hitler and Mussolini were pretty popular dudes up until the whole crazy war thing. Hell, when we got around to the national shame that is McCarthyism, we started dragging anyone who'd fought Franco in Spain in to call them 'premature anti-fascists' and question if they had communist sympathies, even after WWII.
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Dec 30, 2014 22:13
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ZeusCannon posted:This is appropo of nothing and I apologize. What the gently caress is up with your av? He's not a whiner, he's a man who has been fighting a seemingly hopeless resistance struggle for 14 years after fighting in a World War before that and who is well into his fifties/early sixties. And who had been captured and tortured for months before that. Dude's been through some poo poo.
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Dec 31, 2014 03:48
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If I remember right, someone pointed out that Set's nickname for BJ translates to 'Samson'. I'm pretty sure BJ could kill a hundred men with the jawbone of an rear end, it's pretty accurate. Also, the Da'at Yichud are one of my favorite plot points in this game. Because making the source of the Nazi technology something they *stole* really helps in avoiding the sort of accidental glorification of the Nazis that you find in a lot of the wanking over their weapons and stuff. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jan 1, 2015 |
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Jan 1, 2015 19:42
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Kai Tave posted:So really, all of this could have been avoided if the Da'at Yichud had been responsible enough to not leave their history-swaying supertechnology lying around like buried treasure for someone to find. Techpriests, man. Just...Techpriests.
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Jan 1, 2015 23:38
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Kai Tave posted:Clearly the answer to this is "don't give more super-guns away, use them yourselves" and thus we could finally realize our dream of an FPS with a cranky, sarcastic Jewish super-scientist as the protagonist. Day one purchase. This would be a day one purchase, especially if this company made it.
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Jan 2, 2015 02:01
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The thread moves fast because there's a ton of stuff to discuss in this extremely cool game. Also, note the little bit about Frau Engel not allowing any sort of religious observance unless it is Catholic. A nice subtle dig at the fact that the Church stayed unfortunately silent and didn't act much (in an official capacity, there were individual priests that sheltered people and quieter attempts to curb the bloodletting) against the Nazis or the Holocaust in WWII. Of course, there were also individual priests who were pretty loving on board with the Nazis, like Father Charles Caughlin here in the US. He was basically 1930s pro-fascist catholic Rush Limbaugh, a loudmouthed radio personality who built a huge fortune on it that he used to build the Shrine of the Little Flower Cathedral here in Detroit (I went to Shrine's catholic junior high when I was a kid) and openly spoke out in support of the Nazis' actions on Krystallnacht. What I'm saying is Caughlin was basically human garbage and a disgrace to Catholicism, Detroit, and America. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Jan 2, 2015 |
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Jan 2, 2015 18:44
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PAnick posted:When working on shoot man games you usually have to accept that people will run through a room you built for a week in two seconds. Honestly, even when I was running through places they still had a really solid, coherent feel to them that made it fun to scurry through shooting people with two shotguns. Seriously, all the attention to detail, the writing, and the excellent mechanics are why this was the best game of 2014 for me.
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Jan 2, 2015 23:48
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Neruz posted:To briefly go back to the pretty stellar depiction of a concentration\death camp in the game, one part that gets touched on near the start with the cement mixing but not really explained or expounded upon is just how stupid the Nazis were with these camps. Survivors from the camps have all these stories about how the Nazis would put carpenters to work laying bricks while bricklayers were put to work cutting boards and often when a prisoner attempted to point out that their skillset was better used elsewhere in the camp the Nazis would outright refuse to do anything. In many cases they deliberately learned what their prisoners skillsets were purely so they could be put to work doing something they didn't know how to do! Don't forget how a lot of the infamous unreliability of Nazi equipment partly came from their own slave labor sabotaging the hell out of everything they could while building it. What Set was doing with the concrete is pretty much what a lot of Jewish (and other) prisoners did with everything they were asked to build.
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Jan 3, 2015 02:59
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Neruz posted:Almost all the combat reports involving Tiger tanks basically come in two flavours; 'The tank was nearly indestructible until it got stuck on [Minor Geological Feature] and had to be abandoned\was shot in the back at close range' or 'The tank failed to reach combat and got stuck on [Minor Geological Feature] and had to be abandoned prior to engaging the enemy.' The Tiger I tank was an excellent machine on perfectly flat packed dirt fields and that was about it. Still better than the Tiger II though which mostly failed to do anything except stall and crash. They also only built 200 or so of them. Even if you believe the SS's report that it took 8 Shermans to destroy a Tiger II (The SS's reports should be taken with a grain of salt) we had like 40-100 Shermans per Tiger II. So yeah, gently caress the Tiger. Also, German Tank Engineers: "Sloped armor? That thing the T-34 is kicking our asses with? Eh, just a fad."
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Jan 3, 2015 03:37
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Strobe posted:Sloped armor made a pretty game-changing appearance on the Panther, so I'd hardly say that Germany ignored that particular lesson. When the weak spots in its armor weren't being penetrated by outdated anti-tank rifles, yes.
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Jan 3, 2015 03:41
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The T-34 was uncomfortable to drive and I remember a US test of one coming to the conclusion that the air filters were so insanely bad they thought they'd been sabotaged. At the same time it excelled at mixing mobility, armor, ease of manufacture, a decent gun that could support infantry (the actual primary role of tanks), and reliability into probably the best tank of WWII, yes. If we're talking in terms of strategic usefulness.
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Jan 3, 2015 03:45
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To bring it back to Wolfenstein, this is why I love the Da'at Yichud plot element. Because it avoids worshiping Nazi engineering and suggesting the Nazis could win the war on their own; they stole their poo poo and they're just as crazy and inefficient as ever.
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Jan 3, 2015 03:53
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Neruz posted:While historians love to bicker about what could have changed when to allow Germany to win WWII I think they can pretty much all agree that any point after invading the USSR is way too late. I think they pretty much lost when BJ blew up the Black Sun stuff back in 2009, but you could also make the argument that the Indiana Jones and the Ark incidents were also pretty strategically damaging.
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Jan 3, 2015 04:12
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Neruz posted:Yeah pretty much, I do wonder what really caused them to provoke the US into the war like that sometimes; it seems like such an objectively terrible decision. US oil embargo. They figured they were going to have to fight the US and other western powers to take the Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere for their own colonialist use, and they desperately needed fuel that the US had cut off their access to, so they figured they'd start the fight themselves and hopefully quickly and decisively knock the US out of it. They assumed the US would surrender quickly, being weak and democratic. Fascists are really bad at winning fights because their ideology makes it impossible to reasonably size up a foe. EFB.
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Jan 3, 2015 04:22
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