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21 Muns posted:You literally can't generate energy that way You literally can't transfer full memories and personality matrix from a DNA sample, yet here we are.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:21
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21 Muns posted:Oh, wow, just like in Hated In The Nation, AKA the worst Black Mirror episode by a long shot! Come on now, Hated in the Nation isn't the worst episode by a long shot. Metalhead is much worse.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:21
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Xenaul posted:You literally can't transfer full memories and personality matrix from a DNA sample, yet here we are. That's just the writers loving around and being condescending to the audience (I really don't know why USS Callister seems to be the most popular episode of the season). 15MM, on the other hand, makes perfect sense if you assume that the bicycles aren't actually the society's main source of power. In fact, it seems more thematically appropriate that the bicycling is just busywork to enforce social hierarchy.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:26
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The bees from Hated in the Nation became self-sufficient and slowly evolved into the dogs in Metalhead
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Jan 1, 2018 22:29
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Caring even a little bit about scientific accuracy, and allowing narrative license to impede your appreciation of storytellying, is also for peabrains.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:29
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Meth Damon was a bad man for his deceptive actions, but at least he kept his sadism to a virtual world where no real people are hurt by it. He did not deserve to die for that, although it was a cathartic ending to the story for him be killed by his own form of crazy entertainment. It was neat that they gave a little extra ending to the story. The virtual characters had an end goal of suicide, but instead they ended up being born into real beings. Until the servers get shut off.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:30
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Mike the TV posted:Meth Damon was a bad man for his deceptive actions, but at least he kept his sadism to a virtual world where no real people are hurt by it. He did not deserve to die for that, although it was a cathartic ending to the story for him be killed by his own form of crazy entertainment. The episode clearly establishes these are sentient beings.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:32
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DoctorWhat posted:Caring even a little bit about scientific accuracy, and allowing narrative license to impede your appreciation of storytellying, is also for peabrains. A lot of the appeal of Black Mirror comes from how plausible it is, so when the writers just obviously don't give a poo poo how reality works, it's a real drag. It'd be one thing if it were the story's conceit, but the story would work perfectly well if it used brain scans instead, so it's not a way of opening up story avenues, it's just plain "nobody cares lol" nihilism. Mike the TV posted:Until the servers get shut off. This is equally true of San Junipero and that's why I love that episode.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:35
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Fatt Damon makes more sense than Meth Damon. It's one letter change instead of two and it flows better with the original Matt
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Jan 1, 2018 22:37
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21 Muns posted:That's just the writers loving around and being condescending to the audience (I really don't know why USS Callister seems to be the most popular episode of the season). 15MM, on the other hand, makes perfect sense if you assume that the bicycles aren't actually the society's main source of power. In fact, it seems more thematically appropriate that the bicycling is just busywork to enforce social hierarchy. The bicycles make as much sense as modern consumerist culture and are a good analogy for it. Like, what is the point of hundreds of thousands of people making meaningless plastic trinkets in factories that get used for a couple of months and then thrown out to a waste dump? These jobs serve literally no purpose and only burden the environment. But for the workers, it's still the only way to participate in society in a meaningful way because consumerist society is just an insane concept.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:37
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Cojawfee posted:Yeah, and how did one of the McPoyles become a CEO? Totally unbelievable. Black Mirror, House of Cards, and Always Sunny exist in the same cinematic universe. McPoyle left his family - a nomadic group of cyber criminals based out of Philadelphia to pursue a life of havktivism in DC. Later he formed his own company with an ex NSA big data programmer who wants to use his engineering skills to torture Americans for a change.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:40
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Bicyclops posted:Whenever I consider a character too monstrous for reality, I'll remember this post. Uh he’s very clearly a human male not a monster, this isn’t X-Files.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:43
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CelestialScribe posted:The episode clearly establishes these are sentient beings. Well, it is an early version of Cookie tech. There is a question if Real people in that episode would truly care about the fate of their models. Seeing how Cookie tech became fairly widespread and in casual household use, the society at large did not really have an issue with it. At least not until some time later when Cookie lib movement started around Black Museum era. I am not sure why some people consider Hated by the nation "worst" episode. The one with daredevil doing beta testing seemed a lot weaker to me.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:45
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Mike the TV posted:Meth Damon was a bad man for his deceptive actions, but at least he kept his sadism to a virtual world where no real people are hurt by it. He did not deserve to die for that, although it was a cathartic ending to the story for him be killed by his own form of crazy entertainment. I like to think they found a distant planet to hid on and sent out probes to communicate their story. Someone (probably the Reply All podcast) talks about it and they get protected or put into robots or something
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Jan 1, 2018 22:53
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Hated in the nation is a tv movie about a man killing people with an army of robot bees. It owns.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:56
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maskenfreiheit posted:I like to think they found a distant planet to hid on and sent out probes to communicate their story. Someone (probably the Reply All podcast) talks about it and they get protected or put into robots or something They're not just going to give rights to some weird ai personalities that inhabit a game world.
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Jan 1, 2018 22:58
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Season 5 episode 1 will be a screenshot of this thread and be called what if posting but too much
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Jan 1, 2018 22:58
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Mike the TV posted:They're not just going to give rights to some weird ai personalities that inhabit a game world. They’re not AI personalities they’re real people’s mind copies. The series established they have at least some rights. Unless you want to concede they’re not sentient and Fat Damon Did Nothing Wrong? 🤔
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Jan 1, 2018 23:00
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maskenfreiheit posted:They’re not AI personalities they’re real people’s mind copies. The series established they have at least some rights. They are literally ai personalities that have memories from real-world people. There are lots of dilemmas and discussion that can come from that, but that is literally what they are.
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Jan 1, 2018 23:04
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I don't know why people keep using other episodes to infer things about the plot like these episodes are actually directly connected, it's best to just ignore the easter eggs and treat every episode as its own enclosed world
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Jan 1, 2018 23:04
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maskenfreiheit posted:They’re not AI personalities they’re real people’s mind copies. The series established they have at least some rights. I think Cookies only got rights much later on, and possibly in very specific circumstances (E.g. it is last copy of a dead person, San Junipero etc) Purpose made simulation of currently living people are not really significant as they can be created, destroyed, and altered on demand. People tend to anthropomorphise them, much like Tron anthropomorphised basic OS programs and functions but they are clearly not treated as people in the universe (at least not until some time later)
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Jan 1, 2018 23:05
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Phi230 posted:Season 5 episode 1 will be a screenshot of this thread and be called what if posting but too much the twist is that there was only one post
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Jan 1, 2018 23:06
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What does it matter how they get treated by people in the universe for ethical considerations? The conflict between how they are treated and how they should be treated is precisely the point of every episode with a copy of someone's mind uploaded to a computer. Treating these things as identical betrays an astonishing submission to authoritarianism.
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Jan 1, 2018 23:09
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Xenaul posted:I think Cookies only got rights much later on, and possibly in very specific circumstances (E.g. it is last copy of a dead person, San Junipero etc) I like how when I joked some of them deserved their lives people freaked out and now that I’m saying they should get protected from erasure people are freaking out 
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Jan 1, 2018 23:12
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McSpanky posted:What does it matter how they get treated by people in the universe for ethical considerations? The conflict between how they are treated and how they should be treated is precisely the point of every episode with a copy of someone's mind uploaded to a computer. Treating these things as identical betrays an astonishing submission to authoritarianism. IMO it would be kind of interesting if there were an episode that inverted it, so the uploaded people are just being complete dicks and getting away with it because they're in a computer. Like, yay, we just got Grandpa into a computer, we've saved him from mortality! Wait, poo poo, now he's making copies of himself. Guess we need to respect all of them now, because they are all intelligent beings. gently caress, GRANDPA, STOP MAKING COPIES OF YOURSELF, WE DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH STORAGE SPACE, WHAT ARE THEY EVEN FOR. Like, the emulated intelligences were natalists in life and now they're taking it to its logical conclusion in a post-Cookie environment.
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Jan 1, 2018 23:15
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21 Muns posted:IMO it would be kind of interesting if there were an episode that inverted it, so the uploaded people are just being complete dicks and getting away with it because they're in a computer. Like, yay, we just got Grandpa into a computer, we've saved him from mortality! Wait, poo poo, now he's making copies of himself. Guess we need to respect all of them now, because they are all intelligent beings. gently caress, GRANDPA, STOP MAKING COPIES OF YOURSELF, WE DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH STORAGE SPACE, WHAT ARE THEY EVEN FOR. Like, the emulated intelligences were natalists in life and now they're taking it to its logical conclusion in a post-Cookie environment. Or what happens when someone who’s a skilled hacker is uploaded? Picture Christian Slater just loving up the matrix something fierce
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Jan 1, 2018 23:18
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HorseRenoir posted:I don't know why people keep using other episodes to infer things about the plot like these episodes are actually directly connected, it's best to just ignore the easter eggs and treat every episode as its own enclosed world My pet theory is that the crew in USS Callister are the hackers from Shut Up and Dance.
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Jan 1, 2018 23:23
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Jan 1, 2018 23:24
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Mike the TV posted:They are literally ai personalities that have memories from real-world people. There are lots of dilemmas and discussion that can come from that, but that is literally what they are. They are sentient beings. They might not be homo sapiens, but they are sentient beings that exist in a computer.
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Jan 1, 2018 23:27
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facebook jihad posted:This season largely sucked. Here’s my write up from the GBS thread. facebook jihad posted:That’s not my point. The lady explains they all did something to wrong him when explaining his motivations to the protagonist, but then doesn’t go into all the reasons. It’s not a ‘they deserve torture because they were bad’ when the episode explains this point in exposition. It's not 'morally confusing' it's a basic bait-and-switch since the episode initially leads you to believe that Daly is a put upon nerd bullied by his mean co-workers whose worst crime is indulging is some videogame power fantasy. You're obviously meant to sympathize with him and maybe think 'man, he really should get back at those guys somehow' until you start to realize that his getting back at those guys means horrifyingly out of proportion punishments that he inflicts on sentient beings under the guise of Shatnerien digital Satan. At that point the POV of the episode switches to a character who hasn't really done much wrong and the characters that you could previously categorize into boxes like 'Office Bitch' or 'Backstabbing CEO' turn out to be more fully rounded people who transcend the silly high school stereotypes into actual human beings who should never be placed in such a ghastly situation. Also, you left out a pretty important last line there, it's more like 'Yeah I treated you like poo poo, but you roped my loving 6 year old into this as emotional leverage and tortured him in front me while I was powerless over office bullshit, so fuuuuuuck youuuu!'
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Jan 1, 2018 23:28
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Cojawfee posted:They are sentient beings. They might not be homo sapiens, but they are sentient beings that exist in a computer. The Indian dude even says "Whether we'd be dead or not depends on your philosophy on sentient code..." in the episode
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Jan 1, 2018 23:29
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About the callister episode, I think they use DNA has a justification to why they can't just be restarted from a backup, so is impossible to delete them from the system. But they may have later decided to change the ending making that moot point. Using DNA is a crappy dumb idea.
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Jan 1, 2018 23:37
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Xenaul posted:I am not sure why some people consider Hated by the nation "worst" episode. The one with daredevil doing beta testing seemed a lot weaker to me. Hated in the Nation was alright. Killa Beez was a little silly but finding out it was about accountability for blindly lovely behavior online was a unique enough twist. I think Waldo was so bad most people just forget it happened.
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Jan 1, 2018 23:41
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Waldo is either a good episode ruined by the ending going off the rails or a bad episode redeemed by the ending going of the rails
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Jan 1, 2018 23:43
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ClumsyThief posted:I think Waldo was so bad most people just forget it happened. No, now everyone goes "But Trump got elected, so it was right!" 
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Jan 1, 2018 23:44
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21 Muns posted:IMO it would be kind of interesting if there were an episode that inverted it, so the uploaded people are just being complete dicks and getting away with it because they're in a computer. Like, yay, we just got Grandpa into a computer, we've saved him from mortality! Wait, poo poo, now he's making copies of himself. Guess we need to respect all of them now, because they are all intelligent beings. gently caress, GRANDPA, STOP MAKING COPIES OF YOURSELF, WE DON'T HAVE THAT MUCH STORAGE SPACE, WHAT ARE THEY EVEN FOR. Like, the emulated intelligences were natalists in life and now they're taking it to its logical conclusion in a post-Cookie environment. The Black Mirror equivalent of grandma having a thousand tabs open on her phone. Judging by most sandbox games San Junipero really should be populated by Tim Allen faces and penises for everything
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Jan 1, 2018 23:51
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maskenfreiheit posted:Black Mirror, House of Cards, and Always Sunny exist in the same cinematic universe. i legit didn't realize until this post that the hacker in HoC was McPoyle lmao
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Jan 1, 2018 23:55
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Junpei Hyde posted:Waldo is either a good episode ruined by the ending going off the rails or a bad episode redeemed by the ending going of the rails IMO it's a good episode ruined by the romance subplot. I know Black Mirror has a tendency to do plots about relationships, and I generally like them on some level, but I don't think it really fits into what The Waldo Moment is trying to do at all. Still a good episode on balance, though.
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Jan 1, 2018 23:56
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Waldo was a great episode that was ahead of its time.
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Jan 1, 2018 23:56
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A running theme in Black Mirror is that people, even the awful ones don't always deserve the tortures/fate they endure. It has sort of morphed from 'hazards of tech' to being more abstract at times now. Like even if you hate pedophiles, greedy corporate types, etc. cheering on their deaths is sort of lovely irregardless. It was one of the main things that Hated in the Nation was hamfistedly making a statement on.
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