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Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
There's a vast difference between Chinese and Japanese rice though.

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Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges



So I've realized I treat this show the same way I imagine most (non-book readers) treat Game of Thrones. That is I know maybe two character names and the rest are just descriptions. Creepy Mantis Guy, Blind Monk, Blue Princess, Sexy Wrestler Chick, etc..

The North Tower
Aug 20, 2007

You should throw it in the ocean.

Verisimilidude posted:

So I've realized I treat this show the same way I imagine most (non-book readers) treat Game of Thrones. That is I know maybe two character names and the rest are just descriptions. Creepy Mantis Guy, Blind Monk, Blue Princess, Sexy Wrestler Chick, etc..

There's also Kublai's Brother, Guy Who Sexy Wrestler Chick Lets Win, Royal Prostitute, Royal Prostitute's Prostitute Friend, Muslim Guy, Persian Guy, and who could forget Little Boy and Little Girl?!

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die
Grimey Drawer
The finale was really well done considering the TV budget they had to work with. Not just the big battle, but the fight between Hundred Eyes and Jio Siadao was awesome as well. I was hoping for a season of Xiangping under seige, though.

Slow News Day
Jul 4, 2007

PostNouveau posted:

The finale was really well done considering the TV budget they had to work with. Not just the big battle, but the fight between Hundred Eyes and Jio Siadao was awesome as well. I was hoping for a season of Xiangping under seige, though.

For the record, the season had a budget of $90 million. In contrast, Game of Thrones Season 1 had a budget of $50-60 million.

MLKQUOTEMACHINE
Oct 22, 2012

Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice-skate uphill
They must have blown all that budget the setting because the scenery and costumes are amazing. :syoon:

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo
Kublai looks like a pimp in virtually everything.

Josh Lyman
May 24, 2009


Rocksicles posted:

Kublai looks like a pimp in virtually everything.
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure-dome decree:
Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
Through caverns measureless to man
Down to a sunless sea.
So twice five miles of fertile ground
With walls and towers were girdled round;
And there were gardens bright with sinuous rills,
Where blossomed many an incense-bearing tree;
And here were forests ancient as the hills,
Enfolding sunny spots of greenery.

mrfart
May 26, 2004

Dear diary, today I
became a captain.
Must be hard to be a woman in Hollywood these days.
Seems like every high budget HBO/netflix shows demand nudity.

As for this show, I guess I have the same hookups as most.
The mix of 'trying to be historically accurate drama'/kung fu action flick/soft porn is a bit weird.
But yeah, it's enjoyable.

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.



Having finally watched the whole thing, I can only conclude that the entire budget went on Benedict Wong's prosthetic nose. <3

What a silly cliffhanger that was. Overall it was a mixed bag, but I'll definitely be watching series 2 when it lands.

MLKQUOTEMACHINE
Oct 22, 2012

Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice-skate uphill
Man, Benedict Wong gained so much weight for this role. He basically disappears into being Kublai Khan--it took me several episodes to even realize who the actor was.

Party Plane Jones
Jul 1, 2007

by Reene
Fun Shoe

enraged_camel posted:

For the record, the season had a budget of $90 million. In contrast, Game of Thrones Season 1 had a budget of $50-60 million.

Rome had a similar budget of around 50/60 million for the first season thanks to HBO's partnership with the BBC. After they pulled out in the second season the show got cancelled. Deadwood ran about the same amount since each episode cost around 5 million.

By contrast Carnivale was a bargain at $2 million per episode.

wooger
Apr 16, 2005

YOU RESENT?

Steve2911 posted:

Having finally watched the whole thing, I can only conclude that the entire budget went on Benedict Wong's prosthetic nose. <3

Is it really a prosthetic? I just thought he took to drink and food for a year to get into character.

mrfart posted:

Must be hard to be a woman in Hollywood these days.
Seems like every high budget HBO/netflix shows demand nudity.

Yeah it's so difficult to take off your clothes.

The nudity in this can be a little random, but equally It's hard to think of a way to dramatize a loving harem without it.

stev
Jan 22, 2013

Please be excited.



wooger posted:

Yeah it's so difficult to take off your clothes.

I don't think that's the issue...

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
"Common sense" dictates that you don't need to really entice women to watch scripted television, it's men that you need to worry about, hence the fact that most cable shows have a disproportionate amount of female frontal nudity over male frontal nudity.

WastedJoker
Oct 29, 2011

Fiery the angels fell. Deep thunder rolled around their shoulders... burning with the fires of Orc.
I just realised Kublai is played by the Asian fella from 15 Storey's High :laffo:

WTF

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

Sober posted:

"Common sense" dictates that you don't need to really entice women to watch scripted television, it's men that you need to worry about, hence the fact that most cable shows have a disproportionate amount of female frontal nudity over male frontal nudity.

At least spartacus got around this moral problem by including lots of big penis and gay sex goodness.

mrfart
May 26, 2004

Dear diary, today I
became a captain.

WastedJoker posted:

I just realised Kublai is played by the Asian fella from 15 Storey's High :laffo:

WTF

Holy poo poo that's the same guy?

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

mrfart posted:

Holy poo poo that's the same guy?

MLKQUOTEMACHINE
Oct 22, 2012

Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice-skate uphill

WastedJoker posted:

I just realised Kublai is played by the Asian fella from 15 Storey's High :laffo:

WTF

Yeah, he's one of those rare actors who is able to entirely disappear into his roles.

Paperhouse
Dec 31, 2008

I think
your hair
looks much
better
pushed
over to
one side
He's really good, and one of the reasons I'm considering watching this show. However, the reviews are really terrible and it sounds kind of lovely, is that pretty much the consensus in here?

AngryBooch
Sep 26, 2009
So the last scene of this show was absolutely terrible. Does Ahmad actually have any claim on the throne of the Mongolian Empire? I thought he was "adopted" and not even a bastard like Byamba, does that count? Is he just planning on killing every Mongolian in the Khanate to take the throne? Or is he hoping that he will be the Jia Sidao to Jingim's young emperor because he's been ingratiating himself to Jingim the whole series?

I was kind of willing to accept movie kung-fu as the setting's "magic" like in Game of Thrones and just take the series as fantasy. But the super-manipulator villain now having a painting of himself holding the decapitated head of the emperor on his wall is ridiculous. I hope the first scene of season two (if it ever exists) is his new friend Jingim showing up at his house, seeing the picture, and stuffing Ahmad into a rug.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges



Paperhouse posted:

He's really good, and one of the reasons I'm considering watching this show. However, the reviews are really terrible and it sounds kind of lovely, is that pretty much the consensus in here?

I don't know the consensus but having gone in completely blind I will say that the show is mostly forgettable. It has some cool ideas that if utilized better could make a stronger second season, but mostly everything is kinda flat and bland. I "enjoyed" it for what it was, but mostly because I'm out of school right now rather than genuine interest and appeal. The costumes are nice, and the setting is neat, but the story is meh, the characters with a few exceptions are meh, and the set piece scenes with a few exceptions are meh.

AngryBooch posted:

So the last scene of this show was absolutely terrible. Does Ahmad actually have any claim on the throne of the Mongolian Empire? I thought he was "adopted" and not even a bastard like Byamba, does that count? Is he just planning on killing every Mongolian in the Khanate to take the throne? Or is he hoping that he will be the Jia Sidao to Jingim's young emperor because he's been ingratiating himself to Jingim the whole series?

I was kind of willing to accept movie kung-fu as the setting's "magic" like in Game of Thrones and just take the series as fantasy. But the super-manipulator villain now having a painting of himself holding the decapitated head of the emperor on his wall is ridiculous. I hope the first scene of season two (if it ever exists) is his new friend Jingim showing up at his house, seeing the picture, and stuffing Ahmad into a rug.

Speaking of magic, did they ever explain those horse guys in (I believe) the first episode who can surround themselves in sand? That was cool, but then they never show up again unless those were the hashashin, and even then it's not like they did anything noteworthy or mystical.

Verisimilidude fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Dec 30, 2014

MLKQUOTEMACHINE
Oct 22, 2012

Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice-skate uphill

Paperhouse posted:

He's really good, and one of the reasons I'm considering watching this show. However, the reviews are really terrible and it sounds kind of lovely, is that pretty much the consensus in here?

I think the reviews are way off mark and I find Marco Polo to be a great replacement for Rome (but that's mostly because we're never getting another Rome). Check out the user reviews compared to the critic reviews, there's a huge gulf. While that normally might mean the show's schlocky poop like Big Bang Theory or something, it's really just a case of critics hopping on the bashing bandwagon with Marco Polo.

If you want to watch a period piece about Marco Polo finding his way around the cosmopolitan mongol court, along the way getting up to some Wuxia antics, then this show is definitely for you.

Dalael
Oct 14, 2014
Hello. Yep, I still think Atlantis is Bolivia, yep, I'm still a giant idiot, yep, I'm still a huge racist. Some things never change!

nutranurse posted:

I think the reviews are way off mark and I find Marco Polo to be a great replacement for Rome (but that's mostly because we're never getting another Rome). Check out the user reviews compared to the critic reviews, there's a huge gulf. While that normally might mean the show's schlocky poop like Big Bang Theory or something, it's really just a case of critics hopping on the bashing bandwagon with Marco Polo.

If you want to watch a period piece about Marco Polo finding his way around the cosmopolitan mongol court, along the way getting up to some Wuxia antics, then this show is definitely for you.

Its unfair to compare anything to Rome. Rome was something else entirely. The story/script, actors and visuals were amazing. Plus. those comparaisons are what leads to movies like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVvpzS8LD78

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo
I just watched Little Big Soldier and some naff movie about feudal China with Anakin Skywalker and Nicolas Cage.

They both sucked pretty hard.

hailthefish
Oct 24, 2010

The biggest problem with it is the writing could be significantly better.

It gets slagged on by people for a lot of other stuff, but all that stuff is genuinely pretty good. If the writing were better nobody would be complaining about them, but since the writing isn't particularly captivating, people lose their poo poo about every minor flaw.

Hopefully they'll get a season two with a workable budget and find their stride.

MLKQUOTEMACHINE
Oct 22, 2012

Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice-skate uphill

Dalael posted:

Its unfair to compare anything to Rome. Rome was something else entirely. The story/script, actors and visuals were amazing. Plus. those comparaisons are what leads to movies like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVvpzS8LD78

Did they really just refer to Adrian Brody as Brody?


e: This plot:

Wiki posted:

Huo An (Chan), the commander of the Protection Squad of the Western Regions, was framed by evil forces and becomes enslaved. On the other hand, a Roman general escapes to China after rescuing the Prince. The heroic duo meet in the Western Desert and a thrilling story unfolds

It's gonna be a bad movie, isn't it.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo
I have few gripes about it, people got all bent out of shape expecting some GoT/Crouching Tiger.

It got a pass mark for me, it wasn't great by any stretch, but it sure didn't suck. Some of it was loving amazing.

Dalael
Oct 14, 2014
Hello. Yep, I still think Atlantis is Bolivia, yep, I'm still a giant idiot, yep, I'm still a huge racist. Some things never change!
I don,t think Marco Polo is as bad as people say, in all seriousness. People say it has bad writing, and it kinda does.. But I have seen so many shows that were worst and received good reviews.
Case and point, Spartacus. The show's script was terrible in all seasons except for some moments. But it still ended up being entertaining which in the end, is why we watch shows isn't it?

As for budget, I hear Marco Polo isn't lacking. Something along the tune of 80 to 90 million I think? Isn't that close to GoT and Rome?

qbert
Oct 23, 2003

It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Dalael posted:

As for budget, I hear Marco Polo isn't lacking. Something along the tune of 80 to 90 million I think? Isn't that close to GoT and Rome?

It's way more than any season of GoT has cost.

hailthefish
Oct 24, 2010

It does have a huge budget, which is what has me worried.

And yes, I found Spartacus's dialog in particular to be grating beyond belief and can't stand that 300-like stylized CG stuff but it made for reasonably entertaining stuff to watch on my other screen.

Dalael
Oct 14, 2014
Hello. Yep, I still think Atlantis is Bolivia, yep, I'm still a giant idiot, yep, I'm still a huge racist. Some things never change!

qbert posted:

It's way more than any season of GoT has cost.

Although google states this: ¨Netflix Series 'Marco Polo' Is Not Too Big To Fail. It's Just Too Big. With a budget of $90 million, the newest Netflix NFLX -0.61% original series Marco Polo is its priciest production to date, and reportedly the second most expensive television series in existence, after HBO's Game of Thrones.¨

According to wikipedia, you would be right. Apparently GoT's budget was between 5 and 10 million for the first episode and about a total of 50 to 60 million for the first season. One thing is for sure, Marco Polo could have afforded better writers.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Dalael posted:

I don,t think Marco Polo is as bad as people say, in all seriousness. People say it has bad writing, and it kinda does.. But I have seen so many shows that were worst and received good reviews.
Case and point, Spartacus. The show's script was terrible in all seasons except for some moments. But it still ended up being entertaining which in the end, is why we watch shows isn't it?

As for budget, I hear Marco Polo isn't lacking. Something along the tune of 80 to 90 million I think? Isn't that close to GoT and Rome?
Marco Polo wishes it had as good dialogue, brisk pacing or characterization that Spartacus had, much less Game of Thrones. And good performances can occasionally elevate mediocre writing: see Kublai Khan, Jia Sidao, Empress Chabi. Otherwise it comes through. And yes, when reading through critics' reviews, yes, they value characterization probably most of all in TV, so if that's missing, don't expect them to find it good unless they give the show a pass for other aspects of the writing. Even plodding slow messes of shows can be well liked by critics if it's a fantastic character study. Marco Polo does in fact have fantastic cinematography, the occasional worthwhile performance and pretty rad as gently caress fight choreography, if we're being fair. If you like what you're watching, good for you. If you disagree with what critics prefer, well, good for you too. But good writing? I think most of us can agree Marco Polo does not have particularly good writing.

hailthefish
Oct 24, 2010

Right, by all means, call it out for the writing, but having a cow about ~ahistoricity~ is a little un-called for when overall it does quite well.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die
Grimey Drawer

Paperhouse posted:

He's really good, and one of the reasons I'm considering watching this show. However, the reviews are really terrible and it sounds kind of lovely, is that pretty much the consensus in here?

Eh, it's alright.

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

Dalael posted:

Although google states this: ¨Netflix Series 'Marco Polo' Is Not Too Big To Fail. It's Just Too Big. With a budget of $90 million, the newest Netflix NFLX -0.61% original series Marco Polo is its priciest production to date, and reportedly the second most expensive television series in existence, after HBO's Game of Thrones.¨

According to wikipedia, you would be right. Apparently GoT's budget was between 5 and 10 million for the first episode and about a total of 50 to 60 million for the first season. One thing is for sure, Marco Polo could have afforded better writers.

It's the Springtime for Hitler concept, except with extra helping of tits.

Paperhouse posted:

He's really good, and one of the reasons I'm considering watching this show. However, the reviews are really terrible and it sounds kind of lovely, is that pretty much the consensus in here?

It's worth watching despite all the weaker elements.

Dalael
Oct 14, 2014
Hello. Yep, I still think Atlantis is Bolivia, yep, I'm still a giant idiot, yep, I'm still a huge racist. Some things never change!

etalian posted:

It's the Springtime for Hitler concept

I'm sorry, I am not familiar with this concept. Would you enlighten me?

etalian
Mar 20, 2006

Dalael posted:

I'm sorry, I am not familiar with this concept. Would you enlighten me?

You release a failed production and then run-off with the investment money.

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Ithle01
May 28, 2013
Spartacus writing may have been bad, but it was bad in a way that made it, on many occasionas, amazing and it was always aware of how melodramatic and completely ridiculous everything was. Marco Polo, not so much, I'm not saying it took itself seriously (wall painting was great, I don't care what people say) but just that it didn't do what it could or should have done. That's my biggest complaint here, the show could have better and had a lot of opportunities to do so, but choose not to.

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