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Okay, so, I heard of this game a while ago and was considering getting it, because it sounded interesting and like something I would like. However, I also let myself get spoiled on pretty much the entire plot for the first two games (the Joyful wasn't out then), and what I heard left me feeling... Well, I'll explain. So, let's start with the first game. Apparently, it's basically all about Lisa being abused, raped, and eventually being driven to suicide by her horrible father, Marty, told metaphorically in a Yume Nikki-esque game. Marty's basically a thoroughly awful person, and while Brad doesn't exist in the first game, in the second game's new plot he was also a victim of Marty and scarred by his abuse as well. When you find him in the second game, he's apparently trying to atone, but Brad kills him anyway. This is portrayed as a monstrous thing to do, despite A. Brad having PTSD and such from Marty's abuse and generally having some really, really good reasons to hate the guy, and B. Finding a child with a person you know is an abusive rapist being the sort of situation where you get involved, even outside of post-apocalyptic wastelands where half the population openly talks about their desire to rape said child. I mean, you could argue that murder's never a good thing, but this game pretty clearly does not share that opinion, based on much of the rest of it from what I've seen, with Marty being far worse than many of the people you'll routinely put down over the course of the game. Now, in the second game, during the course of the game, Buddy endures a lot of horrible things, including physical abuse and rape. (Wow, that's quite a bit of rape in this series.) However, in the end, it's revealed that Buddy views Brad as worse than anyone else who hurt her, apparently including the rapist (and also people like the one who carved her eye out), because... He was protective of her to the point of denying her freedom and not considering what she wanted? I mean, that's really lovely of him, but in a post-apocalyptic wasteland where, again, much of the population wants to rape and/or murder her, the overprotectiveness at least makes sense, and putting that as worse than rape or, well, all the other things he was trying to protect her from that end up happening to her seems ridiculous. And then Brad realizes that he's just as bad as Marty or something. Basically, my problem is that it seems like the series' writing and morality is all over the place and makes no sense, just being dark for darkness' sake. Marty is an abusive rapist who drove his daughter to suicide, but he is redeemable; Brad, one of Marty's victims, kills Marty, likely in a fit of PTSD, and this makes him an irredeemable monster. There's also the excessive rape, which is a thing that gets to me, though I can deal with it when it's handled well. It does not seem like these games handle it well; quite the opposite, with everything I've heard sounding gratuitous and tasteless, and the thing with Buddy putting Brad as worse than the rapist in particular standing out as completely loving awful. Is my impression generally accurate, or did the spoilers I saw leave out some critical thing that makes all this not completely terrible? I don't mind and in fact quite like dark stories and games, but this comes off as pointless, incoherent, and just poorly-written. If I'm just completely off-base, then I may end up getting the games despite being heavily spoiled, but what I've seen has left me with a really bad taste in my mouth; if I hadn't heard that the Joyful came out and brought it back to my attention, I'd have probably not bothered even asking this.
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Nov 19, 2015 17:07
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Roland Jones posted:Is my impression generally accurate, or did the spoilers I saw leave out some critical thing that makes all this not completely terrible? There are some spoilers for Joyful here. Firstly, Joyful reveals that Buddy wasn't raped. She was told stories thinking it would help her realize she was humanity's last hope through reproduction, but she clearly states that the man in question never touched or hurt her. The implication is formed through Brad's own fears and ours, which is reasonable to feel given everything about the world's environment. As for Marty, it really boils down to the fight as a whole. You, the player, are given a choice to spare Marty but Brad will attack no matter what you pick. From there it's a brutal beatdown where Marty basically doesn't fight back at all and in the middle of it Buddy comes in to shield Marty and you have to hit her a few times to continue the beatdown. Whether or not you forgive Marty (I certainly don't) is up to you, but the beatdown is merciless and Brad does it all in front of his daughter despite her protests. He doesn't just kill Marty, he absolutely obliterates him. To understand Buddy's mindset, Joyful is absolutely necessary. She doesn't protest about being humanity's last hope and is fine with that, but what she wants most is the freedom to decide what she wants to do. Her whole life is basically controlled by the men around her. Brad wants to shield her from the world and even makes her kill what we're led to believe is an innocent man, all to teach her how to be as brutal and detached from life as he is. Rando is the same in a different way, but because he's not as harsh as Brad he doesn't know how to reel Buddy in. It doesn't help that the beginning implies Buddy is already hooked on Joy and that's also causing a lot of her violent mindset. In the end Brad's confinement of Buddy isn't so much condemned, as is his attitude that Buddy is his salvation and his alone. He doesn't give her any options or tells her the truth about the world around her and then lets her decide. She's fine with being that salvation to humanity, but she also wants it done on her terms - her viewpoint is never truly important to everyone around her and she's never allowed to make a choice on her terms. And a lot of that is parallel to the way Marty treated Lisa, with constantly keeping her confined and her having to sneak out just to be outside. That said, the end of Joyful makes clear that Buddy does love Brad and that while Brad was misguided in his parenting, he had only the best intentions out of love. The game doesn't think Brad is as bad as Marty, but it does make the argument that Brad always had that potential because of how he treated Buddy. The dilemma of "is it the duty of the last woman in existence to be the salvation of humanity, even if it may be against her will" is also a heavy one to consider with no clear answer.
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Nov 19, 2015 17:34
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lotus circle posted:There are some spoilers for Joyful here. Alright, that makes it sound better. Stuff I read was incomplete then, I suppose. And inaccurate; it made some of those things sound like the game's judgments rather than just the happenings in the game, among other things. I'll look into picking this up sometime maybe, then. Thanks for the effort in writing all that out.
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Nov 19, 2015 19:55
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This game is pretty on point with its morality, mostly in that it treats morality as a very complex thing that no one really ever gets right. Pretty much no major characters could be considered a morally good character (arguably rando), but they're also all acting in the way that their past and their personality has led them to believe is the correct way to act, so they're all very understandable characters and it's easy to sympathize with why they make the choices they do, even if the choices themselves are abhorrent. Which I think is a pretty interesting perspective to see morality from: people make bad choices but it's not because they're, at their core, bad people.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:48
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Roland Jones posted:Okay, so, I heard of this game a while ago and was considering getting it, because it sounded interesting and like something I would like. However, I also let myself get spoiled on pretty much the entire plot for the first two games (the Joyful wasn't out then), and what I heard left me feeling... Well, I'll explain. I think I touched on this a bit in what I said in an earlier post where I forgot a VERY specific detail later in the game, but-- The whole thing with the Marty fight feeling horrible is, I think, based on the relationship between the abused and the abuser. Namely, that the abused still has a strange kind of love for (read: attachment to) the abuser, to some weird capacity, especially when it comes to a parent/child relationship. There's plenty of hatred there, but there's something to be said for the kind of pathos that goes into brutally murdering the person who did bad some seriously poo poo to you, and your sister, and also represents a person you wish had shown you some form of love during your adolescence. Keep in mind, he's showing that kind of tenderness to Buddy when Brad walks in the door. It's a double-whammy, right then and there. a) Why didn't you do this for me, b) why are you doing it for her, c) are you planning to rape her, d) repeat option c over and over until it ends in murder. One where you're brutally conscious of the kind of harm you're doing. Or, at the very least, the player is brutally conscious of the harm Brad's doing. Either way, losing control in that kind of situation has been played out on many stages. Honestly, I kind of wish that it really was a Joy hallucination, on Brad's part (as I'd posited in the 'i'm wrong, let's just walk that one back' post earlier), largely because I really didn't like the 'redeemed Marty' thing. It wasn't earned. If anything makes my skin crawl, it's that. Buddy's resentment towards Brad towards keeping her confined, well. I mean. We're talking about a weird kind of solitary where you only have four people to interact with. Through your entire life. It's easy to say that having a stable home, having food, having familial social structures makes up for it, but it's a concept that's foreign to a lot of people. Like lotus circle said, Brad is basically confining Buddy like Marty confined Lisa, and the 'failure' status you get near the end is largely how he sees himself, as a result. Well, it's one of MANY reasons he sees himself as a failure, but it's primary in regards to the plot itself, re: even Marty is better than me, and I was clearly being Marty. There's a lot of themes I'm conflicted about, the more that I think about them, but... well. I need to go through the end-game again before I spout off any more ridiculous thoughts that didn't take certain details into mind. that having been said: ninjewtsu posted:This game is pretty on point with its morality, mostly in that it treats morality as a very complex thing that no one really ever gets right. Pretty much no major characters could be considered a morally good character (arguably rando), but they're also all acting in the way that their past and their personality has led them to believe is the correct way to act, so they're all very understandable characters and it's easy to sympathize with why they make the choices they do, even if the choices themselves are abhorrent. Which I think is a pretty interesting perspective to see morality from: people make bad choices but it's not because they're, at their core, bad people. I agree with this wholeheartedly. I don't like rape as a concept in most literature. I really don't. Something about the tone of this particular game made me feel less grossed out by it. I think it is the tone of morality being based entirely on how the characters see themselves, save the people who are blatantly lovely. I mean, hell, I said it before, even Rando, in spite of being a Generally Great Guy in comparison to the rest, has some pretty lovely opinions about what Buddy should do, even knowing what could happen to her. Even knowing what has happened to her. I'm still on the fence in terms of how I feel about it, overall, but it didn't skeeze me out like, idk, Heavy Rain did. Subjected me to pure shock value from time to time, sure, but the fact that it fit the tone made it work...? I don't really know how else to explain it. EDIT: I think the fact that I am conflicted and can still enjoy it is a sign that it did its job, and did it well, lumps and all. It's hard to really encapsulate what I mean by that until you've played it. So, uh, play it. Old Boot fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Nov 20, 2015 |
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Nov 20, 2015 06:05
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Roland Jones posted:Is my impression generally accurate, or did the spoilers I saw leave out some critical thing that makes all this not completely terrible? I don't mind and in fact quite like dark stories and games, but this comes off as pointless, incoherent, and just poorly-written. If I'm just completely off-base, then I may end up getting the games despite being heavily spoiled, but what I've seen has left me with a really bad taste in my mouth; if I hadn't heard that the Joyful came out and brought it back to my attention, I'd have probably not bothered even asking this. I think you're generally on point, but there might be one factual error- I don't think Buddy is ever actually raped by anyone?
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Nov 20, 2015 06:20
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Discendo Vox posted:I think you're generally on point, but there might be one factual error- I don't think Buddy is ever actually raped by anyone? I was informed that Sticky (I think that was his name) apparently (may have?) raped her at some point, and he asks for forgiveness for it before/while you fight him. Which is also apparently why he turns into a symbolic penis-monster or something. Again, though, I'm going off of secondhand information here that made me go from "this game sounds neat" to "...Really? Ugh," so, again, might not be accurate. If nothing else I'll probably throw it on my wish list and pick it up on sale sometime. Thanks again for the words, everyone.
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Nov 20, 2015 09:01
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Sticky doesn't actually do that, it's just Brad assuming he did. Buddy makes it clear in the Joyful that all Sticky ever did was talk to her and cry a lot.
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Nov 20, 2015 09:14
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The only good option is to opt out of everything and die in your corner quietly, the only moral character in LISA is Rooster Coleman.
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Nov 20, 2015 09:49
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Roland Jones posted:I was informed that Sticky (I think that was his name) apparently (may have?) raped her at some point, and he asks for forgiveness for it before/while you fight him. Which is also apparently why he turns into a symbolic penis-monster or something. Again, though, I'm going off of secondhand information here that made me go from "this game sounds neat" to "...Really? Ugh," so, again, might not be accurate. sticky never raped buddy, even in the second game buddy says herself that her and sticky "only talked." but brad immediately assumes the worst and never bothers to give anyone the chance to correct his assumption, and since the story is told from brad's perspective, it's generally framed like sticky raped her. this is, of course, one of the first things that's cleared up in the dlc. Old Boot posted:Honestly, I kind of wish that it really was a Joy hallucination, on Brad's part (as I'd posited in the 'i'm wrong, let's just walk that one back' post earlier), largely because I really didn't like the 'redeemed Marty' thing. It wasn't earned. If anything makes my skin crawl, it's that. i don't think marty had enough time to really get much of a "redemption." what we got was that he apparently saved buddy's life somehow, advised her against taking drugs, and got mad when brad hit her, which is covered in ~3 lines of dialogue. i think whether marty is still a total scumbag or if he really is a changed man is somewhat left up to the viewer to decide, and the scene still works either way. whether the right choice is to kill marty or to spare him, what brad ended up doing was most certainly the wrong choice, from any perspective, because i really don't think even the "kill marty" perspective wants to include "beat buddy unconscious when she tries to stop you" as part of the gameplan. also, seeing marty beaten up with his glasses knocked off, with his name in the battle screen replaced by "father," really hit me where it counts, and i think did a really good job of making it very clear how the situation is a little more complicated, both for brad and the viewer, than being simply a rightful execution of a child abuser.
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Nov 20, 2015 11:52
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I agree that Marty wasn't really redeemed in that scene. The most it did was show that there was a little bit more to Marty than the soulless, faceless shitheel we saw in LISA: The First and in Brad's hallucinations. He was still a drunk living in a hole and glued to his easy chair, but there was a tiny bit of hope for him, like the decades that he had spent all alone after Brad and Lisa were gone had led him to look inward and realize just how much of a monster he had been. He wasn't redeemed, but maybe, just maybe, he was redeemable. I still wouldn't want Buddy to be alone in the same room with him, let alone live on a remote island with him, but I felt like Brad and Marty could both benefit from visiting each other from time to time. Marty could find some little bit of peace, and Brad could start to get past some of his inner demons by spending some time with a father who can''t physically hurt him anymore and wants to make up for what he did. Maybe, just maybe, Brad could have some new memories of his dad, new memories that were good and strong enough to drive away the hallucinations that plague Brad every time he opens a door. It's tough to say whether Marty could have ever not been a terrible person, but I would have wanted to at least see him die in peace, years later, with Brad at his side. Brad chose violence instead, which may have slightly satisfied him on some primal level, but of course he wasn't going to conquer his inner demons by beating his father to death. So, Brad kept going, murdering more and more people, destroying everybody and everything that he perceived as a threat to Buddy until he was too injured to go on. All that did, of course, was hurt Buddy more; Buddy had chosen Rando's Army as her home and she had to watch as Brad yanked that choice away from her and tore it into pieces, man by man. While Marty damaged Brad, he didn't destroy him. Brad destroyed himself.
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Nov 21, 2015 18:15
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:Brad chose violence instead I feel like it is significant to mention that at this point that Brad is so hopped up on Joy that he DOES have the opportunity to choose otherwise, but it is overridden, though whether it is by his base violent impulses or the effects of the drug, who can say.
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Nov 21, 2015 18:25
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Isaacs Alter Ego posted:I feel like it is significant to mention that at this point that Brad is so hopped up on Joy that he DOES have the opportunity to choose otherwise, but it is overridden, though whether it is by his base violent impulses or the effects of the drug, who can say. That's a good point. I made sure Brad kept both his arms and stayed Joyless, which somehow made the things he did during the game's finale even worse, in my perception. Being force-fed Joy by Buzzo became a distant memory, and I didn't have to look at Brad's ruined body all day, so I had trouble seeing Brad as being gradually torn apart by the Joy during the second and third phases of the game -- just as a really, really hosed up human being. There were the meaty hallucinations and the screen going red and flesh swimming across the background, sure, but I kept seeing that as uncontrollable rage hijacking Brad's senses. I didn't really suspect that the Joy overdose was degrading his mind over time, until 
Pittsburgh Lambic fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 19:06
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I really didn't think Brad was as hosed-up or terrible of a person as this discussion or the game itself seems to want me to. The stuff with Marty is silly (I feel virtually no pity for him knowing what we know about Brad and his history) and the most morally compromised things I can remember Brad doing are mostly at the behest of Buzzo, whose totally unexplained godlike ominpotence and the constraints of a videogame force Brad to do exactly what he wants.
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Nov 21, 2015 19:28
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If I recall, Buzzo is as powerful as he is because he is the only truly successful Joy Soldier. This is on top of knowing Armstrong Karate, which contributed to Rando's strength.
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Nov 21, 2015 19:30
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Tallgeese posted:If I recall, Buzzo is as powerful as he is because he is the only truly successful Joy Soldier. This is on top of knowing Armstrong Karate, which contributed to Rando's strength. That was my theory but there's no actual confirmation of that.
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Nov 22, 2015 08:37
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Lisa was a difficult game to go through all three of, but I felt it was, in one part at least, a decent example and outside look of how abuse becomes cyclical, cancerous, and self-sustaining. It started with Marty, who ruined Lisa and Brad as just kids, and they took those lessons with them as their fundamental worldview. They spread that through their lives; Lisa went full burn right away from the sheer awfulness of her own life, helped gently caress up Buzzo, and then committed suicide. Brad went on to make life hard for Rando in his own way with his emotional detachment and hatred of father figures and roles, hosed up Buddy right good by projecting his loss of Lisa onto her and his own shame at the idea of being a dad (plus his terror of knowing what other men could and would do to her), Buzzo helped add to the abuse and carnage, drugs and Joy multiplied it into a localized apocalypse after they had already HAD one, and essentially it just compounded itself into a right hosed up time for everyone. It's like a cascading pyramid that started with Marty and bled down through the years until it was just a hopeless Buddy and a whole goddamn lot of bodies with nothing to show for it, besides what many abused people would like; control and absolute safety from anything that could ever hurt them.
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Nov 22, 2015 09:03
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Zombies' Downfall posted:I really didn't think Brad was as hosed-up or terrible of a person as this discussion or the game itself seems to want me to. The stuff with Marty is silly (I feel virtually no pity for him knowing what we know about Brad and his history) and the most morally compromised things I can remember Brad doing are mostly at the behest of Buzzo, whose totally unexplained godlike ominpotence and the constraints of a videogame force Brad to do exactly what he wants. i'd think the part where he beats buddy unconscious would be pretty definitely, unarguably hosed up. maybe that's just me?
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Nov 22, 2015 10:26
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walking out on dusty after he got his face buzzsawed off was pretty drat cold too
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Nov 22, 2015 10:28
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Hey guys I'm finally playing through this after owning this since Christmas, what do you do at The Beehive with the record (because I just know there's something to do with the record player on the roof)? I'm asking to check if I'm not missing something super simple like some stairs.
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Nov 23, 2015 02:11
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mycot posted:Hey guys I'm finally playing through this after owning this since Christmas, what do you do at The Beehive with the record (because I just know there's something to do with the record player on the roof)? I'm asking to check if I'm not missing something super simple like some stairs. You can't get to that record player, but there's one that you can access due west of the Beehive; you'll want to bike all the way back across the swamp and past its exit to get there.
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Nov 23, 2015 02:47
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:You can't get to that record player, but there's one that you can access due west of the Beehive; you'll want to bike all the way back across the swamp and past its exit to get there. Thanks, I would have never figured that one out on my own. I just keep thinking left->right. A bit further in the game now. I'm seriously tempted to abandon my Joylessness to get better at wrestling.  Is the point of Buzzo to show I have skewed priorities? Well, he's right.
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Dec 6, 2015 05:47
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Beat the game. Well, that was emotionally draining. I must have the shittiest luck in the world, because there's a lot of posts saying they rarely/never ran into the instant kill attacks post-patch, but I sure did! RIP Harvey, Nern, Adjeet, Buffalo, Birdie, Geese. I accidentally ended up with a perfect combination of party members (Fardy, Yazan, Percy) to really guilt trip me, I looked it up and apparently some party members will want rape Buddy? Eugh.
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Dec 9, 2015 08:06
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I think that might only be Rage actually, by and large your party members are actually pretty cool dudes (though some hate your guts).
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Dec 11, 2015 06:08
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Even though Rage says what he says, He still cries when fighting you, although that probably doesn't dispute what he said.
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Dec 11, 2015 06:14
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I am so, so glad I left behind Shocklord for that part. Arm Shock 4 life. Between the pages of old discussion and the Joyful I guess I have only a couple lingering questions. Is it meant to be implied Brad physically abused kid Rando? Or am I getting the wrong idea? And is Joy meant to have a serious message/theme behind it because the whole "turns you into a super mutant" thing makes me reluctant to think too deeply about it... edit: Oh! And does anyone have a full version of that fanart that was used to advertise the game during Steam sales, the one with an absolutely massive Brad with Buddy? mycot fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Dec 11, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 07:06
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mycot posted:I am so, so glad I left behind Shocklord for that part. Arm Shock 4 life. For the first question: It's more like when Rando needed Brad the most, which was on the day Buzzo got to him and sawed his face off, Brad left and didn't stay behind to comfort him, which is basically the shittiest thing he ever did to him until he would nearly kill him many years later.
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Dec 11, 2015 07:19
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Aside from that and pretending that dusty was never hos son afterwords, Brad seems to have been a pretty ok dude towards dusty before that. Taking dusty into his dojo for free when dusty was just an orphan was pretty nice. Once dusty got his face sawed off Brad kinda turned into a neglectful dick though
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Dec 11, 2015 19:18
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Joy may or may not have a deeper meaning. Personally I don't think it's really an anti-drug thing proper, though that's certainly a valid reading. It's foremost a tool for revealing what the most basic, inner desires and thoughts of people are (surprisingly, not very different from the outward thoughts of people in a wasteland)
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Dec 11, 2015 19:20
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ninjewtsu posted:walking out on dusty after he got his face buzzsawed off was pretty drat cold too When I saw (  ) that part, I honestly thought he'd been attacked with a regular handsaw. Which, personally, makes it more brutal. It does make me wonder if that's where the name 'Buzzo' comes from though.
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Dec 11, 2015 22:38
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Also weird as Kid buzzo, uh, kiddo, shares a sprite with one of Brad's students
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Dec 11, 2015 23:41
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Kaboom Dragoon posted:It does make me wonder if that's where the name 'Buzzo' comes from though.
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Dec 12, 2015 01:05
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Kaboom Dragoon posted:When I saw ( Joybuzz. o. Also the reason his gang is named the Joy Riders. BillmasterCozb posted:Also weird as Kid buzzo, uh, kiddo, shares a sprite with one of Brad's students The implication, I think, is that he was one of Brad's students. On a different note the timeline for LISA is kinda weird. LtP's prologue shows Marty as being abusive and Brad's mother being absent, but LtF indicates Lisa had met her mother? I suppose you could see it differently though. Or LtF just got retconned. ninjewtsu posted:Aside from that and pretending that dusty was never hos son afterwords, Brad seems to have been a pretty ok dude towards dusty before that. Taking dusty into his dojo for free when dusty was just an orphan was pretty nice. It's hard to say. Ding said in a stream that Rando and Brad had very different views of their relationship. I don't recall the exact phrasing but it was something like "Rando's physically and mentally handicapped and read positive things in Brad that weren't there" or something. ...Man I'm really disappointed that LtJ didn't focus on Rando in addition to Buddy. But I've probably been down enough on LtJ for one thread. 
Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Dec 13, 2015 |
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Dec 13, 2015 21:32
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Does anybody have any thoughts on a tier list? I've only played through the game a couple of times so I'm not exactly an expert but I'd say Fly would go in the God-tier along with maybe Jack, Carp and Harvey. poo poo-tier maybe Garth, Fardy, Percy... I like Shocklord a lot and he's excellent at dealing big damage to large groups but that's all he really does. Buckets seems great but you have to keep pouring joy down his throat. Birdie and Terry seem to be a popular combo because of Gasoline Spit but my main problem with that is you have to get Terry to level 25 to start tearing poo poo up.
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Dec 15, 2015 23:25
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I'd say Birdie is also god-tier. Gasoline Spit synergizes with any party member who can do fire attacks (i.e. Brad and a lot of other guys) in addition to reducing accuracy.
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Dec 15, 2015 23:29
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Genocyber posted:I'd say Birdie is also god-tier. Gasoline Spit synergizes with any party member who can do fire attacks (i.e. Brad and a lot of other guys) in addition to reducing accuracy.
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Dec 16, 2015 13:58
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drguildo posted:Does anybody have any thoughts on a tier list? I've only played through the game a couple of times so I'm not exactly an expert but I'd say Fly would go in the God-tier along with maybe Jack, Carp and Harvey. poo poo-tier maybe Garth, Fardy, Percy... I like Shocklord a lot and he's excellent at dealing big damage to large groups but that's all he really does. Buckets seems great but you have to keep pouring joy down his throat. Birdie and Terry seem to be a popular combo because of Gasoline Spit but my main problem with that is you have to get Terry to level 25 to start tearing poo poo up. Honest question: What about Jack is that great and worth using? I tried him and, while he's not bad by any means, I found him a one-trick pony whose trick is shared by a lot of other, stronger picks (Mad Dog, RT, even Percy). Am I missing something? Maybe Magic Hat? It'd be a slog for me to go back to the game and try every character out, but if I had to eyeball the high-lows, it'd be something like. Top: Birdie, Fly, Harvey (One-man shutdown machine) High: RT, Mad Dog, Olan (Lots of options and plays well with anyone) Mid: Ajeet, Shocklord, Nern, Terry (Kind of needs a gimmicky purpose, but viable and fun) Low: Sonny, Fardy, Buckets, Ollie (Okay but kind of a pain in the rear end to make work) poo poo-Tier: Dick, Clint, Garth (Pain in the rear end, not worth the trouble) I kind of wish Lisa was a harder game that forced you down to a lot smaller rosters as you played on, but that would necessitate something like runoff XP. It's just too easy to make party picks all that important.
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Dec 16, 2015 16:35
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Amgard posted:Honest question: What about Jack is that great and worth using? I tried him and, while he's not bad by any means, I found him a one-trick pony whose trick is shared by a lot of other, stronger picks (Mad Dog, RT, even Percy). Am I missing something? Maybe Magic Hat? This post is wrong because Terry is not in the highest tier of all, the HintLord tier.
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Dec 16, 2015 22:50
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Mr. Lobe posted:This post is wrong because Terry is not in the highest tier of all, the HintLord tier. I'm sorry, Terry didn't make the cut. 
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Dec 16, 2015 23:16
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Amgard posted:I'm sorry, Terry didn't make the cut. 
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Dec 16, 2015 23:19
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