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OAquinas
Jan 27, 2008
Ye Olde Newb



Sage Grimm posted:

Had my first landing and return from Gilly. That last stage managed to get back into a low polar orbit around Kerbin (not enough fuel to adjust the plane much without burning in the atmosphere). I sent up a capture rocket to nab it and bring it down behind a heat shield since it wasn't built for atmospheric landing. Felt pretty good!

I've also got a base I'm supposed to land on Gilly for contract but due to the way its built it swings on one axis during burns. Not sure if I was having difficulties around Kerbin but it's definitely struggled in Eve's sphere of influence. I might still be able to bring it down though.

You could also use a trick from Real Life rocketry: spin stabilization.

Basically, aim for the heading you want to go, make sure you're really stable, then turn off SAS and get a good healthy axial spin going (Q or E), then fire up the engine. This will distribute any off center thrust and while it doesn't cancel altogether, it should be manageable for short/medium length burns.

Doesn't help too much for landing, but Gilly you should be able to land with just RCS or really really short burns--once you're in orbit you're only doing 30m/s or so if I recall.

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Sage Grimm
Feb 18, 2013



The landing is pretty much what you said, I'm going to be turning the limiter down low so I can easily damp out the swinging. Didn't think about the spinning, though, I'll give that a shot in the Hohmann transfer.

EDIT: Spinning kind of worked until it didn't but I had plenty of deltaV to spare. Made it down gently to the surface by bopping up and down, barely giving it any juice. I think what happened was in order to make a more squat base-like structure I turned the science lab on it's side then stuck a tripod engine setup underneath, totally unbalancing the thrust vector. It wasn't a big deal when it was on top of much heavier stages but when it got down to the last stages (both with <1 TWR), the flaws emerged in force.

Scientist condemned to never return to Kerbin again.

Sage Grimm fucked around with this message at Aug 15, 2017 around 23:24

Crimson Harvest
Jul 14, 2004

I'm a GENERAL, not some opera floozy!


Lipstick Apathy

Otacon posted:

If you have just 1 engine, you're going to need to reduce thrust by a lot to deal with excess torque your reaction wheels can't handle. If you have multiple engines, and are using Mechjeb, check out Mechjeb's Differential Throttle - definitely saved my bacon a few times.

Differential throttle made landing this thing a breeze

Enourmo
May 20, 2009

I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY SMOKE THE DEVIL'S LETTUCE IN COLLEGE!!!


This video is old as hell but it still owns tbh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhRNO6EZmRA

Silver Alicorn
Mar 30, 2008

アップル タイム


Crimson Harvest posted:

Differential throttle made landing this thing a breeze



How long has differential throttle been around? Last time I made a VTOL (long time ago to be fair), I had to use a mod called Throttle Controlled Avionics.

Ratzap
Jun 9, 2012

Let no pie go wasted


Soiled Meat

Silver Alicorn posted:

How long has differential throttle been around? Last time I made a VTOL (long time ago to be fair), I had to use a mod called Throttle Controlled Avionics.

Differential throttle, Throttle Controlled Avionics, Davon avionics and one or two more I can't recall have been around for a long time (some of them years). Every time one of the older ones slips down the mod pages or isn't maintained for a while, a new one seems to pop up.

Crimson Harvest
Jul 14, 2004

I'm a GENERAL, not some opera floozy!


Lipstick Apathy

Silver Alicorn posted:

How long has differential throttle been around? Last time I made a VTOL (long time ago to be fair), I had to use a mod called Throttle Controlled Avionics.

I started playing KSP at 1.0 I think, and MechJeb had it then I'm pretty sure. (loving my own surety here)

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004



Wow, played v0.16 - v0.90 would have spent many fewer days tweaking VTOL and Space Shuttle with something like TCA, that really turns on easy mode when you accidentally throttle up too fast and your space station goes in to an uncorrectable spin

uXs
May 3, 2005

Mark it zero!

Hadlock posted:

Wow, played v0.16 - v0.90 would have spent many fewer days tweaking VTOL and Space Shuttle with something like TCA, that really turns on easy mode when you accidentally throttle up too fast and your space station goes in to an uncorrectable spin

Activate time warp, problem solved.

metasynthetic
Dec 2, 2005

Companions the creator seeks, not corpses, not herds and believers. Fellow creators the creator seeks--those who write new values on new tablets.

There are mods to manage throttle for off centered thrust? I have made so, so many lopsided lander designs where I was tweaking the engines manually. Sometimes mid suicide burn

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I HAVE TERRIBLE OPINIONS ABOUT WALLPAPER. PLEASE DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP WITH INTERIOR DESIGN. YOU WILL END UP WITH UGLY WALLPAPER IN YOUR HOUSE AND ALL YOUR HOUSEGUESTS WILL LAUGH AT YOU.



Doesn't the hangar adjust the center of thrust marker if you manually neck down the engine in the VAB? Just get it roughly under the COM and you'll be fine.

Corky Romanovsky
Oct 1, 2006



Not if mass shifts due to fuel burn.

metasynthetic
Dec 2, 2005

Companions the creator seeks, not corpses, not herds and believers. Fellow creators the creator seeks--those who write new values on new tablets.

Yeah basically that, for me it's really only an issue with large vtol rovers. Or landing surface colony outposts.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMPIN' ON INTO THE POWER LINES

College Slice

Enourmo posted:

This video is old as hell but it still owns tbh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhRNO6EZmRA

Still owns. Hopefully someone remakes it for the 5 year anniversary.

Ratzap
Jun 9, 2012

Let no pie go wasted


Soiled Meat

metasynthetic posted:

There are mods to manage throttle for off centered thrust? I have made so, so many lopsided lander designs where I was tweaking the engines manually. Sometimes mid suicide burn

It's like the Rule 34 of KSP - there is always a mod for that.

Metal Geir Skogul
Jan 15, 2011

Abandon thread!



Do not Google rule 34 ksp

GhostofJohnMuir
Aug 14, 2014

anime is not good


So I figured out the problem with the parachutes (it now takes much longer for a parachute to fully deploy and begin slowing the craft, which I guess is better from the perspective of pulling g's), but now I keep running into something which seems to be a real pernicious bug. I think it might have something to do with loading a save, but most of the time my heat shields won't use up any ablative material, there will be atmospheric effects and a build up of heat, but the speed of my ship won't be effected. It'll continue to gain speed as if in space rather than slowing down as it plows through the atmosphere. Jettisoning the attached heat shield suddenly makes the ship start slowing down, but is obviously a very short term fix as the ship tends to overheat and blow up before slowing down enough. I looked around to see if anyone else is having this problem, but couldn't find anything. I'm playing completely stock and it seems like a really huge bug, even for KSP.

Crimson Harvest
Jul 14, 2004

I'm a GENERAL, not some opera floozy!


Lipstick Apathy

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

So I figured out the problem with the parachutes (it now takes much longer for a parachute to fully deploy and begin slowing the craft, which I guess is better from the perspective of pulling g's), but now I keep running into something which seems to be a real pernicious bug. I think it might have something to do with loading a save, but most of the time my heat shields won't use up any ablative material, there will be atmospheric effects and a build up of heat, but the speed of my ship won't be effected. It'll continue to gain speed as if in space rather than slowing down as it plows through the atmosphere. Jettisoning the attached heat shield suddenly makes the ship start slowing down, but is obviously a very short term fix as the ship tends to overheat and blow up before slowing down enough. I looked around to see if anyone else is having this problem, but couldn't find anything. I'm playing completely stock and it seems like a really huge bug, even for KSP.

Pic of your landing stage with the heat shield attached? Sounds like you have it on backwards or clipped into the part above it or something.

Corky Romanovsky
Oct 1, 2006



Don't fix it; exploit the Oberth effect just above the ocean.

dogstile
May 1, 2012

fucking clocks
how do they work?


Metal Geir Skogul posted:

Do not Google rule 34 ksp

Alternatively...

Hremsfeld
Nov 21, 2012

yay


Corky Romanovsky posted:

Don't fix it; exploit the Oberth effect just above the ocean.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007


GhostofJohnMuir posted:

So I figured out the problem with the parachutes (it now takes much longer for a parachute to fully deploy and begin slowing the craft, which I guess is better from the perspective of pulling g's), but now I keep running into something which seems to be a real pernicious bug. I think it might have something to do with loading a save, but most of the time my heat shields won't use up any ablative material, there will be atmospheric effects and a build up of heat, but the speed of my ship won't be effected. It'll continue to gain speed as if in space rather than slowing down as it plows through the atmosphere. Jettisoning the attached heat shield suddenly makes the ship start slowing down, but is obviously a very short term fix as the ship tends to overheat and blow up before slowing down enough. I looked around to see if anyone else is having this problem, but couldn't find anything. I'm playing completely stock and it seems like a really huge bug, even for KSP.
I think you're confused about what a heat shield does. All a heat shield does is ablate material to cast off heat.

Its really gently caress off heavy. The dynamics of atmospheric freefall is that your terminal velocity will be lower for a lighter object when it has the same exposed cross section. That its affecting your descent deceleration so much means its a not inconsiderable amount of your return stage weight.

Your options are drogues, make your return stage less fat, make your return stage draggier, reconsidering approach to get a longer descent, and or any combination of these that doesn't involve blowing up.

e. Maybe also misunderstanding the density changes as you fall and you are coincidentally dropping the heatshield right before you hit the soup. The altitude around 18k-22k is the soup and where a lot of your slowing is going to come from. The goal of most reentries is to survive blowing up in this region while slowing down enough you are on track to open chutes before you get too close to the ground.

zedprime fucked around with this message at Aug 18, 2017 around 12:26

Sage Grimm
Feb 18, 2013



Take screenshots of your stages too, it might help us give better advice.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I HAVE TERRIBLE OPINIONS ABOUT WALLPAPER. PLEASE DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP WITH INTERIOR DESIGN. YOU WILL END UP WITH UGLY WALLPAPER IN YOUR HOUSE AND ALL YOUR HOUSEGUESTS WILL LAUGH AT YOU.



As far as I recall the 1.25m heat shield weighs about as much as the 1.25m command pod, it's hella massive.

Nalesh
Jun 9, 2010


Are there any mods that add new stuff to mine other than karbonite? Could use a thing to mine for kerbux

Pyromancer
Apr 29, 2011

This man must look upon the fire, smell of it, warm his hands by it, stare into its heart

Nalesh posted:

Are there any mods that add new stuff to mine other than karbonite? Could use a thing to mine for kerbux

USI Kolonization Systems, although that's a bit heavyweight in features if all you want is mining

Nalesh
Jun 9, 2010


Already got that, forgot there were rare elements in that.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I HAVE TERRIBLE OPINIONS ABOUT WALLPAPER. PLEASE DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP WITH INTERIOR DESIGN. YOU WILL END UP WITH UGLY WALLPAPER IN YOUR HOUSE AND ALL YOUR HOUSEGUESTS WILL LAUGH AT YOU.



Rares and exotics are extremely profitable in KSI if you can refine them on site and lob the crate back to kerbin.

financially racist
Aug 13, 2008

Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!



OwlFancier posted:

As far as I recall the 1.25m heat shield weighs about as much as the 1.25m command pod, it's hella massive.

however you can remove some of the ablator to counter this. i only run 20 for missions to minmus/mun and 60 for duna/eve returns

Nalesh
Jun 9, 2010


OwlFancier posted:

Rares and exotics are extremely profitable in KSI if you can refine them on site and lob the crate back to kerbin.

What's the first area that has something like that? Also what's the offplanet ship building mod of choice nowadays?

Crimson Harvest
Jul 14, 2004

I'm a GENERAL, not some opera floozy!


Lipstick Apathy

Nalesh posted:

What's the first area that has something like that? Also what's the offplanet ship building mod of choice nowadays?

I made some good if slow money mining and enriching uranium on Minmus with ... Near Future Electrics maybe it was?

Nalesh
Jun 9, 2010


Also does USILS and KSTS still have that incompatibility issue? the OP of KSTS says it does but ksp modders have been notoriously bad updating that kinda stuff.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I HAVE TERRIBLE OPINIONS ABOUT WALLPAPER. PLEASE DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP WITH INTERIOR DESIGN. YOU WILL END UP WITH UGLY WALLPAPER IN YOUR HOUSE AND ALL YOUR HOUSEGUESTS WILL LAUGH AT YOU.



Nalesh posted:

What's the first area that has something like that? Also what's the offplanet ship building mod of choice nowadays?

It is randomized on your save but I generally find that minmus should have some, you'll have to scan for where exactly the good concentrations of it are though.

I used KSILS and KSTS together and it appears, once you switch to the craft in question, to update the crew life support statistics properly for anybody you sent there with KSTS. But I don't know how robust that is and I would exercise caution when doing it, save beforehand and check immediately. The rest of KSTS works perfectly though and you can use it to both launch craft into orbit and resupply orbital infrastructure with fuel and supplies.

MKS appears to come with some sort of extraplanetary launch pads compatibility as well as some other kind of in-situ building system but I don't know exactly how it works, documentation remains iffy for MKS.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at Aug 20, 2017 around 03:28

Nalesh
Jun 9, 2010


Is there a good way to get an assload of exoticminerals back to ksc from another spot on kerbin? I was originally just gonna Bon Voyage it, but it turned out to be on an island so I can't. Would prefer something like the old USI drone system.

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OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I HAVE TERRIBLE OPINIONS ABOUT WALLPAPER. PLEASE DON'T ASK ME FOR HELP WITH INTERIOR DESIGN. YOU WILL END UP WITH UGLY WALLPAPER IN YOUR HOUSE AND ALL YOUR HOUSEGUESTS WILL LAUGH AT YOU.



Build a rocket and suborbital jump it is the most time effcient approach.

Or build a plane with rocket boosters and suborbital jump that there and back.

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