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bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Not going to happen. iPhone 12 mini bombed and it was literally what everyone was asking for (same flagship, small size.)

If Apple can't sell it, no Android OEM will be able to make it work.

In other news, it's circulating that LG is going to announce their exit from mobile on April 5th.

bull3964 fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Apr 1, 2021

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codo27
Apr 21, 2008



I remember when I got the S3 and people with the iphone4 made fun of how big it was. I think bigger screen sizes are part of the whole apple status myth and thus I understand why the small size didn't work for them. Niche things are more likely to work for android seeing you actually have different types of users and not just a singular hive mind desperate to all have the exact same thing

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




It being android doesn't make small batches of 4.5" OLED screens any cheaper to produce or narrower and thicker batteries. It also doesn't make it any easier to integrate large multi camera modules in a smaller chassis. You have to have room for the better haptic engine. You have to have room for the resonance chamber for the speaker system. You need to expel the heat of the higher TDP components somehow. You have more antennas than ever that you have to find a place without compromising the rigidity of the chassis.

As the size goes down, engineering effort increases and as volumes go down, bespoke part prices climb.

That why smaller variants usually have cost cutting in some way. They will end up costing more than their larger counterparts with the same parts.

There just isn't any market for it. Pixel5/Pixel 4a is likely the lower bound of what we're going to see from phones moving forward. For people that can't use that size one handed, I'm sorry that's the case, but we're probably better off using UI tweaks to fix the problem.

The Merkinman
Apr 22, 2007

I sell only quality merkins. What is a merkin you ask? Why, it's a wig for your genitals!

Long term goal is the merge smartphones and self driving cars. People will want bigger and bigger screens until they are the size of a car's windshield.

butt dickus
Jul 7, 2007

top ten juiced up coaches
and the top ten juiced up players

bull3964 posted:

It being android doesn't make small batches of 4.5" OLED screens any cheaper to produce or narrower and thicker batteries. It also doesn't make it any easier to integrate large multi camera modules in a smaller chassis. You have to have room for the better haptic engine. You have to have room for the resonance chamber for the speaker system. You need to expel the heat of the higher TDP components somehow. You have more antennas than ever that you have to find a place without compromising the rigidity of the chassis.
"we had to make phones bigger because we're cramming more bullshit in them"
we had appropriately-sized phones in the past. i want a nexus 4 with updated components. newer socs have lower tdps, and i'd even be fine with a smaller battery, as the one in my pixel 5 lasts over two days. i understand that i'm in the minority here, but i don't give a poo poo about the cameras, speakers or headphone jack and would happily give them up for a smaller phone

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




butt dickus posted:

newer socs have lower tdps

No, they have overall lower battery usage because they can spend less time at peak, but compared to something like the Nexus 4, it's not true.

The Nexus 4 used a Snapdragon S4 Pro with TDP of 4w. The TDP of the SD888 is 10w.

Compared to say a SD820, the SD888 has a slightly better TDP (10w vs 11w). What we've gained in the past few years is a similar TDP footprint with a massive increase in processing power which leads to overall reduction in battery usage since less time is spent at a higher power state, but these things get hot when they run full tilt.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

I've got a weird little problem with my Galaxy S20 Plus: I recently turned off autorotate for the screen because it was annoying me in one particular app. Now I want to turn it back on, but the quick-settings icon for it is just kind of gone. I can't find it anywhere, not even in the options. Is this a known problem? How do I get it back?

fourwood
Sep 9, 2001

Damn I'll bring them to their knees.

bull3964 posted:

It being android doesn't make small batches of 4.5" OLED screens any cheaper to produce or narrower and thicker batteries. It also doesn't make it any easier to integrate large multi camera modules in a smaller chassis. You have to have room for the better haptic engine. You have to have room for the resonance chamber for the speaker system. You need to expel the heat of the higher TDP components somehow. You have more antennas than ever that you have to find a place without compromising the rigidity of the chassis.

As the size goes down, engineering effort increases and as volumes go down, bespoke part prices climb.

That why smaller variants usually have cost cutting in some way. They will end up costing more than their larger counterparts with the same parts.

There just isn't any market for it. Pixel5/Pixel 4a is likely the lower bound of what we're going to see from phones moving forward. For people that can't use that size one handed, I'm sorry that's the case, but we're probably better off using UI tweaks to fix the problem.
Yep, some Android OEM can make some niche small phone and then take a big loss on it when only a niche market jumps for it and then decide to never make one of those again because what good is brand loyalty when youre losing millions of dollars.

butt dickus
Jul 7, 2007

top ten juiced up coaches
and the top ten juiced up players

bull3964 posted:

No, they have overall lower battery usage because they can spend less time at peak, but compared to something like the Nexus 4, it's not true.

The Nexus 4 used a Snapdragon S4 Pro with TDP of 4w. The TDP of the SD888 is 10w.

Compared to say a SD820, the SD888 has a slightly better TDP (10w vs 11w). What we've gained in the past few years is a similar TDP footprint with a massive increase in processing power which leads to overall reduction in battery usage since less time is spent at a higher power state, but these things get hot when they run full tilt.
i didn't consider how many more cores the socs have now compared to back then, the 888 has 8 cores versus 2 in the s4 pro. it's also difficult to find tdps for qualcomm cpus, the first result when i search for the 888 was 5w, but as far as i can tell, qualcomm doesn't provide those numbers (perhaps the decision is left to the manufacturer.) they don't even have to use the 888, google didn't go with the highest-performance cpu for the 5 because it's not necessary. phones have been fast enough for years, i don't even know what the point of a faster cpu is now beyond benchmark dickwaving

fourwood posted:

Yep, some Android OEM can make some niche small phone and then take a big loss on it when only a niche market jumps for it and then decide to never make one of those again because what good is brand loyalty when you’re losing millions of dollars.
i wouldn't buy that, either, because any non-google manufacturer is going to have garbage support

UnfortunateSexFart
May 18, 2008

𒃻 𒌓𒁉𒋫 𒆷𒁀𒅅𒆷
𒆠𒂖 𒌉 𒌫 𒁮𒈠𒈾𒅗 𒂉 𒉡𒌒𒂉𒊑




bull3964 posted:

Not going to happen. iPhone 12 mini bombed and it was literally what everyone was asking for (same flagship, small size.)

If Apple can't sell it, no Android OEM will be able to make it work.

In other news, it's circulating that LG is going to announce their exit from mobile on April 5th.

Turns out small phone lovers are just a very loud but insignificant minority.

Smythe
Oct 12, 2003


no meds = f4

loved my insanely huge nexus 6p, cylon visor supremacy

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




butt dickus posted:

i didn't consider how many more cores the socs have now compared to back then, the 888 has 8 cores versus 2 in the s4 pro. it's also difficult to find tdps for qualcomm cpus, the first result when i search for the 888 was 5w, but as far as i can tell, qualcomm doesn't provide those numbers (perhaps the decision is left to the manufacturer.) they don't even have to use the 888, google didn't go with the highest-performance cpu for the 5 because it's not necessary. phones have been fast enough for years, i don't even know what the point of a faster cpu is now beyond benchmark dickwaving


Thermal envelop is tuned by the manufacturer yes. They have high amount influence over the scheduler.

The common criticism of small phones has always been "I have to sacrifice something about the flagship experience to get a small device and that's why they don't sell" but that seems to be exactly what you are arguing for. In fact that was the herald for the iPhone 12 mini "Finally! I can get a flagship that if functionally identical to the main thing. This is what's been holding small phones back." Yet, it bombed.

Small and scaled back has been tried many times before and either no one's been able to crack the code of where the compromises should be made, or there just isn't a large enough market for it.

For size, most people are more concerned about in pocket feel than UI element reachability. Screen to body ratio and soon foldables address those concerns. UI adjustments do wonders for reachability issues from full on one handed mode to minor tweaks like moving navigation to the bottom and adding in gestures and there isn't much that needs to be tweaked on a Pixel 5 sized phone. If anything, iOS was the device that needed the smaller size more because that operating system is a dumpster fire for one handed usability on large devices (I struggle using it with my massive hands on a 12 pro max) and that still didn't help sell the smaller size. It also showed just how compromised a smaller device is on battery. The iPhone 12 mini tended to do fine for light use, but the moment you started stressing the processor it tanks FAST.

Beyond all that, getting the DPI right on a device much smaller than a P5 with modern apps and webpages is going to be a challenge. Android's UI has changed a lot since Gingerbread and Lollipop days and so have the sophistication of applications. Even if you slap a 1080p screen into one of these smaller devices, touch targets are going to start to get difficult to hit and text is likely going to have wrapping issues due to DPI.

The world has moved on. The 4a, 5, and S21 are not unreasonable sizes and represent the best compromise for modern Android and devices.

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012



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butt dickus posted:

i wouldn't buy that, either, because any non-google manufacturer is going to have garbage support
Something like 1 in 20 people want a small phone.
Google's marketshare in devices is something like 1.5% in the US and >0.5% worldwide.

So you're not only asking for something which has stopped selling, but then imposing other niche conditions on it.
I'm not trying to snark you out too much, but you can surely empirically see where the problem lies.

UnfortunateSexFart
May 18, 2008

𒃻 𒌓𒁉𒋫 𒆷𒁀𒅅𒆷
𒆠𒂖 𒌉 𒌫 𒁮𒈠𒈾𒅗 𒂉 𒉡𒌒𒂉𒊑




Khablam posted:

Something like 1 in 20 people want a small phone.
Google's marketshare in devices is something like 1.5% in the US and >0.5% worldwide.

So you're not only asking for something which has stopped selling, but then imposing other niche conditions on it.
I'm not trying to snark you out too much, but you can surely empirically see where the problem lies.

He's been repeating the same stuff for like 5 years in this thread, I wouldn't count on it.

butt dickus posted:

I ordered my Nexus 5 on launch day and I'm still unhappy with how huge it is and have difficulty operating it. There have been people in this thread who have gotten the 6 and switched away from it because it's too goddamn big. Big phones are dumb and I'm angry about it!

UnfortunateSexFart fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Apr 1, 2021

fourwood
Sep 9, 2001

Damn I'll bring them to their knees.

Khablam posted:

Something like 1 in 20 people want a small phone.
Google's marketshare in devices is something like 1.5% in the US and >0.5% worldwide.
As a broader and different point, there definitely does seem to be a disconnect between Googles true market share and their perception as a market leader.

UnfortunateSexFart
May 18, 2008

𒃻 𒌓𒁉𒋫 𒆷𒁀𒅅𒆷
𒆠𒂖 𒌉 𒌫 𒁮𒈠𒈾𒅗 𒂉 𒉡𒌒𒂉𒊑




fourwood posted:

As a broader and different point, there definitely does seem to be a disconnect between Google’s true market share and their perception as a market leader.

No one perceives them as a market leader outside of this thread. They sell worse than LG and LG is quitting. (I love Pixels ftr)

UnfortunateSexFart
May 18, 2008

𒃻 𒌓𒁉𒋫 𒆷𒁀𒅅𒆷
𒆠𒂖 𒌉 𒌫 𒁮𒈠𒈾𒅗 𒂉 𒉡𒌒𒂉𒊑




Well, google finally found a use for project soli at least - telling me how catastrophically lovely of a sleeper I am.





New second gen nest hub, released today for you people a day behind in the west

Actually worked really well. I spent many more hours just lying down trying to sleep and it somehow could tell I wasn't. Could tell the difference between my wife and I somehow too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKRA6GhlthM

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012



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It's kinda neat, but apps were doing this 10 years ago.

cage-free egghead
Mar 8, 2004

Ready to eat me, sir!


Khablam posted:

It's kinda neat, but apps were doing this 10 years ago.

Most of them required the phone to be on the bed or under your pillow though lol

Lowen SoDium
Jun 5, 2003

Highen Fiber


Clapping Larry

I never knew what I am supposed to do with this info.

I mean, I know I slept like poo poo last night, but I guess I have a graph now.

Smythe
Oct 12, 2003


no meds = f4

Lowen SoDium posted:

I never knew what I am supposed to do with this info.

I mean, I know I slept like poo poo last night, but I guess I have a graph now.

u need a graph for every facet of your life, else ur a little n00blet, and not a TECH LORD

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

Lowen SoDium posted:

I never knew what I am supposed to do with this info.

I mean, I know I slept like poo poo last night, but I guess I have a graph now.
If you have a lot of wake phases and such, you at least know that your daytime tiredness is caused by bad sleep quality, not some other health issue. That's a starting point.

butt dickus
Jul 7, 2007

top ten juiced up coaches
and the top ten juiced up players

UnfortunateSexFart posted:

He's been repeating the same stuff for like 5 years in this thread, I wouldn't count on it.
closer to 8 years, as that's when phones got too big. the nexus 5 was too big, i stupidly bought the 6P which was waaaay too big, however

Smythe posted:

loved my insanely huge nexus 6p, cylon visor supremacy
the visor ruled, pretty dumb to do the "off-center camera square" when they had a perfect solution to let your phone lie flat

Skarsnik
Oct 21, 2008

I...AM...RUUUDE!






Lowen SoDium posted:

I never knew what I am supposed to do with this info.

I mean, I know I slept like poo poo last night, but I guess I have a graph now.

Yeah this

My garmin watch will tell me I slept like poo poo if I wear it to bed

Uh, thanks?

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007


RICKARUS

It's Moot baby!




UnfortunateSexFart posted:

Well, google finally found a use for project soli at least - telling me how catastrophically lovely of a sleeper I am.





New second gen nest hub, released today for you people a day behind in the west

Actually worked really well. I spent many more hours just lying down trying to sleep and it somehow could tell I wasn't. Could tell the difference between my wife and I somehow too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKRA6GhlthM

I really want one of these. Sleep tracking without having to wear a watch or put my phone under my pillow or something, would be awesome! How close does the Hub have to be to you?

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Cardiovorax posted:

If you have a lot of wake phases and such, you at least know that your daytime tiredness is caused by bad sleep quality, not some other health issue. That's a starting point.

Yeah, I've been using a Watch Active 3 for this and it has been working really well and has been really eye opening as far as how I feel the next day is less a function on how many hours I slept and more what happened.

I can sleep for 8.5 hours, but I only showed 10 minutes of deep sleep which is why I feel like ragged trash the next day. Meanwhile, this day I only slept for 6hr 20 minutes but had 40 minutes of deep sleep and while I felt tired when I woke up due to the short duration, I actually feel mentally sharp and present that day.

From here, it's just tracking habits and seeing what you can correlate between good sleep patterns and what lead up to them.

Most recently I got a new pillow and at first it it made my sleep worse, but then I experimented with how much fill it had in it and the elevation and holy poo poo, it was like a switch was flipped. I went from 27% restlessness during the night to 4% and my deep sleep doubled. So there is value in the metrics if you are willing to track other aspects.

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012



2008,2014,2015,2017,2018
2019,2020,2021,2022,2023
2024,2025,2026,2027,2028


cage-free egghead posted:

Most of them required the phone to be on the bed or under your pillow though lol
Nah the ones that required that are 15 years old. Android and iOS both have great options for bedside tracking.

Sleeping-phase sensitive alarms are really neat. I had a glorified casio watch that did this back in like ~2005 and when they work it's a great feeling.

UnfortunateSexFart
May 18, 2008

𒃻 𒌓𒁉𒋫 𒆷𒁀𒅅𒆷
𒆠𒂖 𒌉 𒌫 𒁮𒈠𒈾𒅗 𒂉 𒉡𒌒𒂉𒊑




CLAM DOWN posted:

I really want one of these. Sleep tracking without having to wear a watch or put my phone under my pillow or something, would be awesome! How close does the Hub have to be to you?

Mine was like 3 feet away on a night stand and worked great. They do say to have it at mattress level facing you.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

Khablam posted:

Nah the ones that required that are 15 years old. Android and iOS both have great options for bedside tracking.

Sleeping-phase sensitive alarms are really neat. I had a glorified casio watch that did this back in like ~2005 and when they work it's a great feeling.

My OG Mi Band did this and it was awesome. I haven't found anything similar that actually works now.

WattsvilleBlues
Jan 25, 2005

Every demon wants his pound of flesh

bull3964 posted:


Most recently I got a new pillow and at first it it made my sleep worse, but then I experimented with how much fill it had in it and the elevation and holy poo poo, it was like a switch was flipped. I went from 27% restlessness during the night to 4% and my deep sleep doubled. So there is value in the metrics if you are willing to track other aspects.

Can you elaborate on your pillow please?

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Just a shredded foam pillow that let's you remove fill.

Khablam
Mar 29, 2012



2008,2014,2015,2017,2018
2019,2020,2021,2022,2023
2024,2025,2026,2027,2028


sharkytm posted:

My OG Mi Band did this and it was awesome. I haven't found anything similar that actually works now.
Sleep for Android. Works with Mi Bands through Miband tools, or it also does bedside tracking. Works fine sat on my wireless charger about 1m away.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

Khablam posted:

Sleep for Android. Works with Mi Bands through Miband tools, or it also does bedside tracking. Works fine sat on my wireless charger about 1m away.

I will experiment with this. I really miss having my band wake me up a few minutes early and not feeling like rear end.

AlexDeGruven
Jun 29, 2007

Watch me pull my dongle out of this tiny box




Sleep tracking is really useful if you take steps to improve the different facets. I feel the same way when I get good deep sleep even with a shorter overall time. Once I started tracking, I also started investigating ways to improve deep sleep and trying different things.

I find that I feel much better if I'm over 40min of deep.

Sleep tracking on itself is interesting. Changing habits based on data to improve things is pretty great.

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007


RICKARUS

It's Moot baby!




UnfortunateSexFart posted:

Mine was like 3 feet away on a night stand and worked great. They do say to have it at mattress level facing you.

My nightstand surface is maybe like 10-15cm higher than my mattress surface. Would that mean it would have issues?

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Well, Oneplus already squashed the Pixel 18w charger compatibility bug before I even had a chance to upload debug logs in tonight's update.

I don't know if I've used the camera enough yet to notice any changes they may have done there.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Looks like there may be more evidence that the Pixel 6 will be using a Google/Samsung collab SoC.

https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/04/02/the-pixel-6-could-take-on-the-next-iphone-with-a-custom-google-processor/

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007


RICKARUS

It's Moot baby!




bull3964 posted:

Looks like there may be more evidence that the Pixel 6 will be using a Google/Samsung collab SoC.

https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/04/02/the-pixel-6-could-take-on-the-next-iphone-with-a-custom-google-processor/

Combine this with the new Sony sensor, and this could be fuckin awesome.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




They made another "how to switch" video.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S9YZI_X_ZMY&feature=emb_title

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UnfortunateSexFart
May 18, 2008

𒃻 𒌓𒁉𒋫 𒆷𒁀𒅅𒆷
𒆠𒂖 𒌉 𒌫 𒁮𒈠𒈾𒅗 𒂉 𒉡𒌒𒂉𒊑




CLAM DOWN posted:

My nightstand surface is maybe like 10-15cm higher than my mattress surface. Would that mean it would have issues?

Not entirely sure how it works but possibly?

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